A Southern Baptist preacher has brewed up a storm of debates since he told seminary students that taking birth control pills is a sin and equivalent to committing murder.
"[T]he third function in that birth control is to prevent implantation on the uterine wall. And if it reaches that third function, that third function does not take effect until the seventh day. The seventh day is seven days too long, and its murder of a life," said the Rev. Thomas White at a Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary chapel service earlier this month.
"I want you to know that the third form of birth control known as the pill, that third form that it has is wrong – it is not correct according to Scripture," said White, who serves as vice president for Student Services at SWBTS.
The Oct. 7 sermon has since drawn fire and concern from students, faculty and fellow Southern Baptists, some of whom agree with White to a certain extent and some of whom have charged him of being a legalist.
"We have SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) leaders, including seminary professors like Dr. White, Southern Baptist agency Presidents, SBC trustees and other leaders who are preaching personal opinions as if they were mandates from God," the Rev. Wade Burleson, pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Okla., wrote in a blog post last week. "This type of legalism will destroy not only the fabric of cooperation upon which our Convention was built, it will ultimately destroy the powerful message of the gospel ..."
Dr. Richard Land, president of SBC's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, told the Dallas/Fort Worth news channel WFAA, "I don't believe prudent planning is rebellion against God's will as long as couples accept God may cause them to have unplanned pregnancies anyway."
But Land said he ultimately agrees with White.
In his 38-minute sermon, White expounded on Psalm 127 and expressed his views on birth control for six minutes. During that short segment, White said life begins the moment an egg and sperm meet and thus a pill that prevents that life from implanting on the uterine wall is wrong.
More generally, he also stated that planning family life your own way and according to your own time and not entrusting God with your destiny is a sin.
"We are sinning when we say I'm going to control every aspect of my family ... we don't trust Him," he said.
White issued a clarification in a blog post last Thursday, explaining that he does not believe all birth control is murder but that he opposes "abortifacients which prevent the progression or continuation of life" – including the third function of birth control pills.
"We live in a society which largely feels that children are a burden but the Bible tells us that children are a blessing," added White, who confessed to using contraception with his wife in the past out of "selfishness."
"There is perhaps nothing in America that we have misunderstood as much as the fact that children are a blessing from the Lord," he had said in the sermon.
White stressed that he does not speak for SWBTS but said he believes his view is consistent with the Southern Baptist Convention's views on the unborn.
Explaining the SBC position on the issue, Land said in a statement, "The Southern Baptist Convention is not opposed to the use of birth control within marriage as long as the methods used do not cause the fertilized egg to abort and as long as the methods used do not bar having children altogether unless there's a medical reason the couple should not have children."
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Daniel,
Thanks for that bit of wisdom. A little late for me though! Where were you five years ago when that knowledge would have been extremely useful? LOL.
I keep trying to convince my wife to let me buy a riding lawn mower...
Just FYI, I have 6 children ranging from 26 to 2. Do you know why you have to keep having kids? If you don't you have to mow your own lawn when you get old....
I get the idea this guy is against any type of birth control. It's the belief that birth control interfers with "God's plan". Still, there are those who think open-heart surgery interfers with God's plan by intervention in death. I just don't see how you can extend the abortive arguement to birth control pills as they keep the female from releasing the egg in the first place.
GoldenEagle and Prophet,
I love it when God speaks so clearly!
Eagle,
We kinda experienced the same thing. When my wife was pregnant with our first born, a prophet told us that it was a boy and that our next child would be a girl. We hadn't even found out the gender at that time, but God was right on both accounts....
wbmoore and eagle.
Amen! God is good and His mercy endures forever! He opens doors that no one can shut, and shuts doors that no one can open. His wisdom is far above ours; our wisdom is foolishness before Him. But those who call upon His name, though foolish before man, will stand holy, pure, and full of wisdom and His glory. He will use the weak things of this earth to confound the wise. But their prideful hearts are hard and deaf to the truth. But continue to speak of His wonderous deeds, for we will overcome by the blood of the Lamb and by the words of our testimony!
My wife was told she could not have children. She got right with God, and now we have 4. It is God who opens and closes wombs.
Prophet, I have to tell you this story, because it still sends chills up my spine to this day.Years ago I attended church with a couple who were told they could never have children.She prayed to God for a Samuel much like Hannah in the Old Testament.While attending a Revival meeting, the Speaker stopped and said to her God has heard your prayers, but you are not going to have a Samuel, you are going to have a Ruth instead.The doctor told her she could not have children due to internal damage.She not only had a baby girl, which she did name Ruth, but she ended up having a second girl, which she named Esther.Doctors don't know everything, but God sure does.
DP, plus a huge AMEN to your other point!!
DP, I think his point is that there are birth control devices that are abortive and others that prevent the sperm and egg from uniting, my sense is he is only opposed to those birth control devices that are abortive and not the latter.
Daniel,
Yes you can. Doctors told my wife that she'd never be able to have kids....
We have two beautiful kids.
God can do whatever He wants, however He wants. He's not constrained by any feeble attempts by man's "power" or "knowledge".
Interesting story. I don't find any Biblical basis for his position but interesting none the less. If we believe that life begins at conception then what's the difference in preventing conception and just not having sex in the first place?
Still, I can tell you (believe me) that when God wants you to have a child no birth control pill or otherwise is going to stand in His way. Can I get a witness...? :D
But you need to understand...that even if I forgive someone of their sin, it does not absolve them of their sin. It absolves me of any responsibility I have to forgive them. Only God can absolve someone of their sin (not a priest), and only when they confess it to God and ask forgiveness of their sins.
You see, you involve yourself in hypocricy. You say "Only God can forgive us when we sin against Him and only after we ask for Him for His forgiveness."...and then out of the other side of your mouth you say that priests can only forgive certain sins. What gives? I'll tell you what...just a lot of false doctrine that even the Catholics cannot agree upon amongst themselves.
Actually, I really don't need you to ask for forgiveness in order for me to forgive you. I give it whether you ask for it or not. When you twist the scriptures, and claim God said something when He obviously didn't, I take it personal. Maybe I shouldn't. Afterall, God can take care of Himself.
Prophet, that's laughable... you forgiving us for sins against scripture and against God. Who do you think you are? How arrogant! Only God can forgive us when we sin against Him and only after we ask for Him for His forgiveness.
Yes Prophet, if I sin against you and ask your forgiveness, then you have the obligation to forgive me for that transaction. If I have sinned against someone else, or against God, you have no right and no obligation to forgive me. It's none of you business.
Don't be so arrogant. I agree with sscitsongas, you think you are enlightened, but really you're not. 2000 years of Church history tells me differently. For 2000 years, men far holier then I imagine you to be, have been praying and receiveing guidance from the Holy Spirit. Yes the Church that Jesus founded on Peter the Rock has been here for 2000 years. As Jesus said, hell would not prevail against it. Hell won't bring it down, not even with your help!
sscit,
We're all enlightened by your post.
prophet
"I forgive the Catholics for their sins. Not only against me, but also against the Scriptures and God. But I am also compelled by God to preach the Truth"
Yes, of course, your religion and your beliefs are the correct ones. You are the enlightened one, you know the universal truths. God speaks to you directly I'm sure. Unless one has adopted your beliefs they are wrong. I know some jews and muslims that tell me the same thing.
supertekk,
Yes, I forgive the Catholics for their sins. Not only against me, but also against the Scriptures and God. But I am also compelled by God to preach the Truth. And some people are going to be offended when I do.
citsonga,
You're a Catholic?
ms, I appreciated your openness as well and I too look forward to future interaction and may you be blessed as well, believer
prophet, perhaps you were born a century or two too late, the world has moved onto a more enlightened state.
Okay, okay. Let me rephrase that. Most Catholics...
I have yet to meet a Catholic with more than 6 kids. I know they're out there, but it's the ones who preach it, but don't practice it that end up on CP.
The Duggards sure live that commandment, and they're protestants.
I'm not angry. Just speaking the facts. Why do you take it personal for?
To Prophet and Believer I enjoyed the conversation thoroughly, thnx for expressing your thoughts and feelings so freely, Sincerely from my heart, may you both have a blessed day, I look forward to speaking on other subjects with you as well in time thnx.
Prophet you are surely filled with hate for Catholics, please heed gods word and treat your neighbor as thyself, forgive those who offended you so that you may be forgiven.
If you know that every Catholic falls short of multiplying then you definitely must be God to know all of them are failing...
With this ability to know all please list there names so I can see if I am included in your narrow minded statement.
May God have pitty on us all for the sake of our souls, and may we forgive those who sin against us so that we may be forgiven for our own sins, AMEN.
Nice scripture. It's the same one God gave me when He called me to be a prophet.
But it still doesn't change the second part of my previous post.
I've been told by countless Catholics that God commands us to be fruitful and multiply, but yet they don't.
If anyone is condeming you Prophet then shame on them, regardless of thier religion. We are not here to condemn each other, we are here to attempt to encourage each other to follow the path that God set in front of us which includes being compassionate towards each other, loving one another like we love ourselves and Loving god to the upmost with all our heart, mind and soul.
So just so you know I am not condemning anyone, so take no offense to what I believe and have read in the bible. However I do offer advice to you and the scripture reading to back it up so that you may make your decision knowing what pleases God. This is my duty and every other christians duty in the world. Too many christians become offensive and attempt to argue matters by making irrational statements that go against what the bible clearly states because they are allowing there emotion which stems from the flesh to take action rather then thier hearts.
EZEKIEL 33:7-9 = You, son of man, I have appointed watchman for the house of Israel; when you hear me say anything you shall warn them for me. If I tell the wicked man that he shall surely die, and you do not speak out to disuade the wicked man from his ways, he shall die for his guilt, but I will hold you responsible for his death. But if you warn the wicked man, trying to turn him from his way, and he refuses to turn from his way, he shall die from his guilt, but you shall save yourself.
You can read and understand what God is pleased with, the one verse I put earlier is not the only that supports my theory however if you don't take him at his word there why would you take it elsewhere in the other books of the bible. Therefore I have made my statement I will be praying that you will sincerely think about what the bible says and make a decision that is pleasing to God. Either way you are my brothers and sisters and I respect you and will constantly be praying for you. I believe you are all good but sometimes, myself included, we can be led away with our mind and our needs from what are heart ask of us. God Bless You All.
supertekk,
"To the contrary PROPHET shame on you for believing that people are ignorant in attempting to please God by listening to what he is saying, even if you are not willing to do so you should commend those who love God enough to heed his word and attempt to do what is pleasing to him.'
Kind of like the Catholics condemning me for using a condom? I'm trying to please God be being responsible, and the Catholics rake me through the fire.
"Wasting his seed is no different then using birth control which does obviously waste your seed my friend."
So is having sex when the wife is not ovulating. Again, you prove that Catholics view is that sex is for procreating. If that is the case (which is stated often by Catholics) then Catholics are failing miserably at their own convictions.
ms, so you're going to base your whole view on the use of birth control on this one passage that your have to put a spin on to make it fit and then tell any Christian who uses any type of birth control that they are in sin according to this one passage of Scripture. Well your absolutely right on one point we're certainly going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
I also understand that Dr. White is not condemning all birth control but this is one step of many heading christianity back in the right direction and moving the morale standard to a higher level. God Bless.
Wasting his seed is no different then using birth control which does obviously waste your seed my friend. I have read this book many times and it is clear, birth control has the same effect as the method used by Onan and does have relevence. Many just fail to understand it or do not want to understand its meaning. So I assume we agree to disagree. Read it again my friend, I have, and clearly God is upset about the wasting of seed. Onan not living up to the law of the land and people is not as important as Gods want of us to procreate. God Bless You Brother.
ms, the issue of Onan has nothing to do with the use of birth control but rather disobedience and selfishness in his refusing to allow his sister-in-law to become pregnant by him. He knew that while he would have to support the child, he would not receive any of his deceased brother's estate, since legally it would all belong to the child. In other words you have to totally misinterpret this verse to make it say that God is opposed to birth control devices. Once again Dr. White does not condemn the use of birth control but only those birth control devices that perform an abortive function as opposed to a preventive function.
To the contrary PROPHET shame on you for believing that people are ignorant in attempting to please God by listening to what he is saying, even if you are not willing to do so you should commend those who love God enough to heed his word and attempt to do what is pleasing to him.
Aside from what was mentioned in this story I think everyone who believes Birth Control should read thier bibles GENISIS 38:9-10 clearly tells us that it is wrong to waste your SEED by taking Onan's life for doing so because it was displeasing to god. In a matter a fact I would prefer more Christians would take the time to read thier bibles and this would surely lessen the controversy of such debates.
God bless you prophet and may the Lord enter your heart and open your eyes so that you may understand the word of the Lord, Blessed be the name of the Lord, Amen.
As I scan through the comments on BC & reproduction, its interesting to me how one christian attacks the views of another christian on the subject of reproduction. This subject alone tells us why the founders of the US wanted to keep religion out of goverment.
Oy. Such ignorance....
(not of you, believer, but of the Catholic system and the people who follow it)
prophet, once again this is from my days as a catholic, condoms are manmade whereas the rhythm method is totally natural nothing manmade is involved.
believer,
But how is that different than condoms?
prophet, unless things have changed when I was still in the catholic church they were opposed to any artificial forms of birth control such as condoms, at that time the only approved method I heard talked about was the rhythm method.
Like I said. The Christian Post can do an article on all types of birth control. I don't think we need to attack other peoples' personal beliefs, as long as we still have freedom to choose what we will do.
I know that. But I wonder what the Catholic's beef is with it then. And I wish I could get a straight answer from one of them that actually practiced what they preach. Because it seems to me that this group "National Family Planning" is no different than using a condom.
Condoms do not cause the death of a fertilized egg.
jcfollower,
But in what catagory does that put condoms?
The best thing that the Christian Post could do at this time, would be to publish an expose on which birth control methods cause the death of a fertilized egg and which do not. Then let Christians decide for themselves, based on the facts.
Yes, it is heartbreaking that so many good Christian believers are committing abortion and they don't even know it.
jcf, I totally agree Christian women and men alike are not being told the whole story when it comes to the use of birth control and like you it bothers me that so much of the responsibility is put on the woman.
I have to say this. Women should be discussing this topic more than the guys. We need their input and they need more information.
jc,
Kinda. We just started talking about how the RCC thinks that ALL forms of BC are wrong, even if they don't involve abortion.
It seems that we may have gotten on a bit of a tangent here. We don't need to argue about the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, and their differing views of how many kids to have.
Rev. White said that the pill is a form of abortion. If you believe that life begins when the egg is fertilized, then the Reverend is right.
The travesty is that Christian women and women in general are not being told that about the pill. Women need to really question their doctors closely on whether or not a birth control method causes the death of a fertilized egg.
Sorry, that last post was for chris in regards to Natural Family Planning.
So, it helps you determine when is the best time to get pregnant, if that is your goal...and when the best time to have sex if you don't want to get pregnant?
Since it's apparent that you haven't had a vasectomy, then I'll pardon your ignorance of the difference between a vasectomy and castration.
Natural Family Planning measures the woman's menstration cylce, so that the sexual act is still natural, but reduces the chance NATURALLY of having children. The NFP method has proven to make couples closer, because it is not 100% effective and if you do have a child then what a blessing that will be. A condom is completely unnatural and makes the sex act artificial and not blest by God.
A child is a blessing from God, not a burden like some think. http://www.natural-family-planning-works.com/catholic-natural-family-planning.html
A vasectomy is not an abortion. But it is not God's will for your life. The Old Testament is full of examples like DT 25:11-12, DT 23:1.
If a woman for example must have an operation to remove her ovaries for life saving reasons, then that is morally acceptable. However, choosing to castrate yourself because you simply don't want to have kids is against God's plan.
We need to have and/or adopt many children as God may grant to us, disciple them well in the Lord, so we Christians can build a Christian value society within the secular culture and OUT VOTE those secularist who seek to destroy our values. By having more children than the secularist, we will out vote them everytime.
How is Natural Family Planning different from a condom?
You are absolutely right, believer! If only they knew that the pill has abortifacient chemicals, then they might change their use of contraception.
Eventhough the condom does not create abortions it still obstructs the gift of sex which is both unitive and procreative. Contraception cheapens the act and distorts the marriage covenant. If you cannot financially handle more children, then use Natural Family Planning which is endorsed by a vast number of Christians as the most biblically based method. If for some reason you do have a child, then God will bless you to take care of that child too. Have more faith in God for him to provide.
I want to know how having a vasectomy is considered abortion?
I think some are missing Dr. White's point, he is opposed to those types of contraceptive devices that work after the egg and sperm have united as opposed to those devices that prevent the egg and the sperm from uniting. I personally believe there are Christian couples out there who if they knew the birth control method they were using was actually performing an abortive process they would change immediately to a form of birth control that prevented the egg and sperm from uniting as opposed to the form they were using.
johnzon, our planet is not overrun with people, our planet is overrun by sin and greed. Studies have shown that there are ample resources to take care of both our present population and much more if the haves would be willing to share and not hoard those resources.
That is why I'm not Catholic. The more and more I hear of their teachings, the more I realize how far from the Truth they are.
Oy. I wish people who call themselves Christians would actually read the Word of God, instead of blindly following an organization that teaches obviously unscriptural beliefs.
"1I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."
The Catholics are another branch on the vine. But it seems that (again) the RCC is exalting themselves as God. Otherwise, they'd know that they exude the same pride that caused Satan to be cast from heaven.
Jesus is the Root, the Catholic Church is His Trunk and the next thickest part of the Tree is the Orthodox, Mainline Protestants are next with the thickest branches and then comes all the many sects who have come in the last 100 years. The closer you are to the Root who is Christ, the more truth is available.
Yes, all Protestants are included in this tree of life.
Prophet,
Take a biology class. I guess you don't understand a lot about women physiology do you? You can only have as many kids as God has designed for your body to have.
We are faithful, and I thank God I am Catholic to know the fullness of teaching of Truth about faith and morals.
The big question is; Why did Protestants all think that contraception was a Pagan evil practice up to 1930 and then change like the culture and allow it. You can find a lot of articles sharing on this website how many protestants are REDISCOVERING the Wisdom of the Catholic Church on never changing on this Moral topic.
Contraception perverts and distorts the marriage covenant. It is a pagan practice and in Many cases creates abortions.
Jesus is the trunk. We are the branches (Catholics included).
Crossfire,
The Catholic Church, historically, is the church that grew out from the Apostles through Apostolic succession.
Please provide historical and factual evidence that shows explicitly that some other group of Christians are the original. If you can do this, then you will be the first ever in history. Good luck, my friend. This is another point of why I became Catholic as a Reformed Christian Pastor. The Catholics were the true Church and that was one of the many reasons I converted.
The Catholic Church is the original. Historically proven and with Scriptural Apostolic succession of authority. To be a denomination means to come from something that came before you and to change what was originally handed to you. The Catholic Church retaines the the original deposit of faith received by the Apostles through Christ himself. All of our bishops can trace themselves to the Apostles by the laying of hands.
Your sect of Christianity can only be traced back to your founder be it; Calvin, Luther, Henry 8th, Wesley, Smith, etc, etc. We go back to Jesus as our founder. You cannot.
We are the trunk with all the roots of this vast tree and we are happy that other Christians like you are still a part of the body of that tree as branches. Some of you branches were cut off like; Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Science, etc.
I'm sorry you're so defensive about your faith. Catholics believe that we should be fruitful and multiply, yet fail to do so. What's up with that?
Does that offend you? Then practice what you preach, then you won't be offended will you?
Catholicism is just another denomination of Christianity. The RCC touts it's "hubris" (thanks mike for that wonderful word) when it says that it is the only "true Church" when in fact they are not.
And since you agree that I am a part of the Body, why not do some research on what God says about His Body.
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
So, apparently you fail to acknowlege the Word of God.
By the way...Jesus is the vine (trunk) not the Catholic Church. Another example of false teachings.
msnchris, with all due respect, Catholicism is most certainly not the trunk. It's just a branch that grew off earlier than most others. Refer to this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Christians
Also, we Catholics are not another division of Christianity. We are the Original trunk of the Tree that is Christianity, and other Christian sects like yours' are the branches with each branch deciding what part of the trunk they will keep or get rid of.
You are a member of the body, even if you are a branch. But a branch is more likely to break off, whither or be tossed about in the wind than the base trunk with its roots firmly in place and rooted in The Word of God in Scripture and Tradition and the authoritative teachings of the Church protected by the Holy Spirit.
Over the years, many branches have sprouted and the more they divided the weaker the branch becomes. All the while the Trunk of the tree, which is Catholicism, gets larger and her roots get even deeper because of 2000 years of furtile ground.
If you truly want to stop waving around in the wind like a branch does, then come home to the fullness of God's truth only available in the Catholic Church. Over time the Trunk gets even stronger and because of Christ the gates of Hell will never overcome it and it will never be uprooted. You have God's Word guaranteeing that, and for 2000 years we have are still His Church founded by Christ.
Prophet,
You are always so defensive, and there is probably a good reason why. While you and I disagree with each other I am really offended that you would attack me and my wife personally.
Calling me a bad Catholic, who says that kind of stuff. I made it very clear how many children I had. I was Protestant for a long time and did not become a Catholic till after my wife could not have children.
Moreover, we felt called to adopt 4 children when we became Catholic. For you to attack the fact we couldn't have children after my wife's ability to have children just shows that you still haven't matured in Christ.
You need to spend some time on your knees, asking forgiveness for your attack on me and my wife. I expect more from someone who loves the Lord. I may disagree with you a lot, but I know you do love Christ and I feel that those words you spoke to me were not something Jesus would be happy with. Ask the Holy Spirit to fill your heart with love and joy. You can attack our doctrines and you can attack my interpretation of scripture if you wish, but attacking me personally about my family is really below you.
Catholicism is just another division of Christianity. Nothing more.
Whether you like it or not, I'm still part of the Body (and Church) of Christ. God gave the Holy Spirit to ALL believers to lead them into ALL truth. He didn't give the Holy Spirit to certain special people.
I also have the authority of Christ to study and know and understand the scriptures. That was given to me the day I made Jesus my Lord and Savior.
Only 3 children? You're failing miserably at "being fruitful and multiplying." You might want to repent and ask God to help you have more. Who says your wife is beyond having children? Don't you know Sarah had children in her nineties?
And why aren't you practicing what you preach? You're a terrible Catholic.
Prophet,
This is why Protestantism has all the division it has today, exemplified by your comment about the Bible not speaking directly to the use of condoms. You have no authority to give you a final answer of what is right and what is wrong. I don't see where the bible talks about using electricity, a car, a cell phone, either. This is why Jesus Christ founded His Church on the Apostles and their successors. Christ gave them His authority.
The Catholic Church has authority given to it by Christ to discipline, legislate, bind doctrine, forgive sins and shepherd the people of God. Without this authority in faith and morals, no wonder so many Protestant churches die on the vine with their secular pagan practices like contraception.
If you bothered to have more children, then we wouldn't be in today's mess concerning elections. If you would have had more children than the regular secularist family, then we could protect marriage, defend the unborn and protect traditional values.
By the way, I have three children and we've adopted another 4 children after my wife reached the age of not being able to have any more children. So, all 7 of my children are discipled properly and those who are of age will ALL BE VOTING REPUBLICAN!
Planet Earth is over run with people, as a result tens of thousands of species of plants and animals are on the way to extinction. The human animal is fouling its nest with is 6.5 billion polluters. The human animal is becoming a cancer on the planet.
So, Chris,
You married? How many kids do you have?
I haven't found a scripture yet that tells us to use condoms....
You are right Prophet, we Catholics do take everything that God told us through His Word to the extreme. We believe everything He said.
ALL PROTESTANTS believed prior to 1930 that ALL FORMS OF CONTRACEPTION WERE EVIL because contraception distorts the sacred act of sex given to us by God within Marriage as being both unitive and procreative, to now being reduced down to a selfish act.
What is the perfect model of marriage? The love of Christ to His Church. Now, think about it for a second or more. The Love of Christ to his bride the Church is not contraceptive it is always fruitful!
Just another example of how Secular Culture has influenced Protestant Christians, rather than the other way around. The Christian Church was founded by Christ to speak the Truth on faith and morals, so that the world is transformed by Christ message. Unfortunately, the vast majority of Christian Churches are more influenced by the secular culture, than by the Word of God.
The Catholic church takes it to extreme. They believe that using condoms is a sin. Go figure that one out...
I also don't support car driving because in certain very rare cases it results in the destruction of a life.
Oh, and I also am still pouring over scripture to decide whether or not we should use ladders. Is the known risk the moral equivalent of suicide?
Seriously everyone, we all can agree that abortion is wrong, but I'm not kidding that the odds of this "third function" occurring are far less than the odds you will kill someone in the next month with your car.
When in my twenties, I used the "pill" and it was my understanding, at that time, that it prevented the fertilization of an egg by a sperm. Years later, I found out that it also prevents implantation of the zygote into the uterine wall. I asked my ob/gyn if it could conceivably cause the abortion of a fertilized egg. He said that yes in "rare" cases it can. This is because the pill does not always prevent fertilization.
I don't, however, understand the scriptural basis for not allowing permanent prevention of pregnancy via tubal ligation or vasectomy for those who have chosen to have no more children. These methods of birth control do no kill a fertilized egg, and are not abortion methods.
Kudos for speaking the truth that science has hidden behind flashy marketing campaigns.
I do have to say that the Catholic Church has loudly been rejected as harsh and unrealistic on matters of contraception and I think MANY inside the Evangelical Christian Denominations are recogonizing...either you believe life BEGINS at conception or you don't...if that is true...then certain contraceptions are in fact terminating life.
I for one have battled my own personal beliefs on this for over two years. I was worried I was being too legalistic, confused, and maybe dupped..but in the end...I've put my life in the hands of a Father that created me...no matter how much the thought of another child makes me cringe...his purpose for my life..not mine.
Count me in as a reformed contraceptive user as well. God be with those pastors returning to the message of purity and truth. Now let's preach some more gospel people!
Bravo for Rev. Thomas White!! This is the truth. We don't want to control and stop any other of God's blessings. Maybe we don't believe that children are God's blessing. That is unscriptural.
Bless Rev. White for speaking the truth.
I think the Catholic Church has been saying this for years.
Science is the new god of most Americans, the reason why Islam will possibly conquer America in the future is because Americans and American Christians and most western Christians of which I am one, no longer have a strong understanding of true Christianity, which calls for dominion not restriction of the human population.
I support this brave Christian minister for speaking truth to his culture GOD bless him.
Sadly, most couples will not have the scientific background to understand this, but I believe this brother has hit the nail on the head. He's on target with his comments, and many of us, my family included, stand guilty of not having understood what we were doing. May God forgive us. I believe this is another instance of where we as a people are so unspiritual that we often sin without even recognizing it.
<<By using artificial means to stop having children is that Biblical??? >>
Another very good reason not to be Biblical. Planet Earth is already over run with humans.
I applaud our Baptist brother in Christ. God bless the Baptists! Scripture says "be fertile and multiply"; "I came that you may have life and have it to the full". Our brother is in accord with Scripture, not a legalist.
The Southern Baptist Convention believed it was immoral and a gravely sinful act to use birth control before 1930.
I'm glad this Baptist Preacher is expounding to his congregation that the "Pill" makes the Uterus an inhospitable environment for a baby to form, thus creating an abortion where the fertilized egg is now a human and is basically starved to death in the Uterus and dies. Millions of babies are aborted because of the "Pill" and these women don't even know that they are causing hundreds if not thousands of abortions.
God bless this Baptist Pastor for preaching something we Catholics have known for 2000 years. Birth control is a Pagan practice, which depending on the meathod, may cause abortions and has underminded the bond of marriage ever since it was allowed.
Be fruitful and multiply! If all you Protestants would have more children like you are supposed to do, then we wouldn't have the problem with gay marriage and abortion and many other evil issues because we would have more christians than those secularists and we would out vote them EVERY TIME!
Think about it? By using artificial means to stop having children is that Biblical??? I think not. The perfect image of marriage is Christ and His Church. The Love of Christ with His Church is fruitful, not contraceptive!