Saturday, November 07, 2009 Last Update:07:14 pm ET

Opinion|Wed, Nov. 19 2008 09:28 AM EST

Same-Sex Marriage: Are the People Sovereign, or is it to be the Courts?

By Richard Land|Christian Post Guest Columnist

On Nov. 4, 2008, the people of California, Florida and Arizona joined the ranks of the approximately 30 of the United States that have outlawed same-sex marriage either by amending their respective state constitutions or by passing appropriate legislation.

The three states mentioned above amended their state constitutions by the following margins: California (52%), Arizona (56%) and Florida (62%).

The results in California are causing the most controversy. Why? First, because same-sex marriages were already being performed in that state since June because the California Supreme Court refused to delay their ruling until the people could vote in November. Second, California is a much more liberal state culturally than either Arizona or Florida.

Now we are witnessing the spectacle of same-sex marriage advocates going before the California Supreme Court in attempts to convince them to overturn the people’s choice to amend their state’s constitution. The legal theory in America and in the states that make up our Union has been that the ultimate authority in the law is the constitution, not the judges’ interpretation of that constitution. When the people disagree with judges’ interpretation of the constitution, both our Federal Constitution and the various state constitutions furnish the people with a way to give the judges further instruction on how they would be governed—the amendment process.

A majority of Californians have exercised that right and have amended their constitution to define marriage with great specificity and precision as being only between a man and a woman — no same-sex marriage and no polygamy. If the California Supreme Court were to now attempt to nullify what the people have chosen to do through an expression of their sovereign will, they will have attempted to usurp the sovereignty of government “of the people, by the people and for the people” and to replace it with government “of the judges, by the judges and for the judges.”

I would urge the members of the California Supreme Court to read the text of the Declaration of Independence with great care, specifically these words:

“That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.”

(emphasis added)

If the California Supreme Court does not acknowledge its obligation to submit its collective judgment to a constitutional amendment passed by the people, then the democratic freedom reserved to the sovereignty of the people will have perished in California.

This column originally posted at Casting Stones, a blog hosted by Beliefnet.com.

___________________________________________

Dr. Richard Land is president of The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, the Southern Baptist Convention's official entity assigned to address social, moral, and ethical concerns, with particular attention to their impact on American families and their faith.
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  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    is it just me, or does anyone else think that richard land (in the picture above) looks like william h. macy?

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "you people tickle me"

    We try to keep it sociable.... :D

  • Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    got to scoot right now but i will try to answer some of the question the guy i re-posted never did. he probably just though he was wasting his time - like wbmoore said once.

  • Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    you people tickle me

  • Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    My, the level of hatred and anger in some of the posts is quite startling. Christianity, which is an offshoot (actually the fulfillment of Old Testament writings and prophecy) of Judaism, has always held that many things are sins. This includes homosexuality. When the media does a story on someone whom they agree with, and they stand by their principles in the face of adversity, hardship or even death. They are portrayed as a heroic figure, worthy of emulating, and as ray of hope for our future. Yet Christians who hold to their principles are portayed quite negatively and are fair game for whatever language you wish to use to denigrate them.
    A couple of millenia ago, many Christians were martyred for their beliefs. Often killed in horrific manners to the approval, applause and delight of the public and to those witnessing. I'm sure at times it looked as if the morality and laws laid out by God were in danger of extinction, but they prevailed. Many societies through out history have incurred, allowed, and even encouraged moral decadence and decline. And eventually each of those governments fell as their decadence accelerated the rotting of their societies. I do not fear for Christianity, but I do fear for the people who will inherent the consequences of that decadence.
    I believe that Americans should look into lessons of history for the results of moral decay if they chhose to ignore the Bible.

  • Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:27 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "This site is hypocrisy at its best."

    You are a part of this site. Is this your self judgement?

    The rest of us want to discuss issues from our perspective and allow everyone else to draw their own conclusions. Just FYI, if you read through the Gospels you will find the only people Jesus chews our are those who are closed minded calling them sons of hell and white washed tombs. You attack those who paint with a broad brush yet do the same yourself with your own statement. Your own words convict you....

  • Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:22 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "homophobic, ultra-conservative Christians, and people uneducated in the arts of reality - and instead shunned in churches believing the earth was created in 6 days "

    1st -- our pastor is a calvinist by theology which is VERY concervative. We are not homophobic. We simply do not condone behavior that offends others.

    2nd -- We have quite a few well educated people here who can see past the closed minded militant homosexual agenda dogma and see the impact on society. Well educated is not the same as going through college and having a bunch of paper on the wall. Well educated is actually knowing and understanding the material. It is not simply being able to argue a point of view but rather the ability to understand each point of view and determining it's basis and sociological impact on society. A computer full of the knowledge of a hundred professors is not 'well educated'.

    3rd -- Just 40 years ago everyone thought Gene Roddenberry was nuts for thinking a communications device could be as small as he made it for StarTrek. He was wrong...they can be a quarter of the size.... How about those 'tape' things he had for the program...ever heard of a thumb drive? Just because we can't see or understand how He created the world in 6 days only proves we are not advanced enough to understand it. It is not negated by our lack of advancement and insisting on science which continues to prove itself faulty as time goes on.

    4th -- "I guess this author forgot that it was the courts who overturned Brown v.Board". I was unaware that the court overturned it. It was my understanding as a lay advocate for special needs children that the court determined the schools were not following the constitution. This is different from saying the constitution is wrong which is what the court in CA will have to say in order to overturn Prop. 8.

  • Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "people uneducated in the arts of reality"

    that would include atheists and non-christians.

  • Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:01 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    mburrel,
    So why have voting at all. Get rid of the essence of democracy and let us go back to monarchy, or socialism, or a dictatorship.
    Who's going to protect the majority from the minority?

  • Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mb, why would we want to see his post again? But since you are impressed by it let me ask you the questions I asked blue but he never responded to. So are you saying the people were smart enough to vote for Obama, but too stupid to vote for same-sex marriage? And if Prop #8 would have lost by a small percentage would that be the result of the heterophobics living in California?

  • Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    blue1018 deserves reposting, especially since Land is not a clear thinker. here it is:

    This is a joke, right? So a majority of homophobic, ultra-conservative Christians, and people uneducated in the arts of reality - and instead shunned in churches believing the earth was created in 6 days - are allowed to suppress the minority? THAT is what the constitution is; to protect the minority. I guess this author forgot that it was the courts who overturned Brown v.Board.. it was the courts who denounced torture on a federal level.. it was the courts that had to step in to assure that students wouldn't be thrown out of college or school for not saying the pledge or just because they were women. PLEASE! The "people" of California didn't do anything; a simple, 1% over 50% proves homophobia and the enormous affect of racist, sexist Mormon ads that falsely depict gays as perpetrators. This site is hypocrisy at its best.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Haven't you read that we should flee the presence of evil?"

    ...umm...so...since these 'evil people' are here...why are you? My Bible says to keep fighting the fight. How do you know that we don't pray for Mike and the rest of them? Some of the most prized fruit takes the most work. To me, Mike is not some enemy. I do not wrestle with flesh and blood. At one time even those who are saved at one time were deceived. If your are saved you have to admit you were once living in darkness and deceived. Yet, it is the grace of God that saves. It is our job to do the work. The only difference between you and Mike is the grace of God. If God had seen fit for things to be different it would be Mike who was posting to give up on your soul. Everyone here has the choice to walk away.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "God did make me that way."

    Proof please. If I want to believe God made me African-American that would just prove I have no clue. Still, if my friend who IS African-American said "God made me black" then that would be a true statement. The proof is no further than looking at our skin. His is very dark. Mine glows in the dark.... (Pale face I truely am.)

    You can say over and over like a broken record that God made you that way. I want proof. Prove it to me. One study that breaks almost all the rules of even secular science doesn't cut it.

    I learned a long time ago that what I want to believe and what is able to be proven are two different things.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "If the California Supreme Court does not acknowledge its obligation to submit its collective judgment to a constitutional amendment passed by the people, then the democratic freedom reserved to the sovereignty of the people will have perished in California"

    Right to the point....

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DRJ, please understand that I don't believe that a genetic link will be found as the cause of homosexuality, but even though downs syndrome is not at all about a sinful behavior it certainly was never a part of God's original design for mankind but a result of the impact of man's sin on every area of life as we know it to include in some cases our genetic make-up, but I do see your point with regards to being created with a genetic trait that would automatically cause a person to sin.

  • DRJ »
    Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I am sure that this merry-go-round discussion on whether homosexuality is a sin or not will not end until the Judgment Day! Steiner, I appreciate your patience in setting forth your hopefully convincing dissertation on why society cannot accept homosexuality as a genetic malfunction to be compared with the other brain disfunctions you listed. Unfortunately, since there is absolutely no genetic connection between brain function and homosexuality, there is likewise NO CONNECTION that you will ever be able to make with a practicing homosexual concerning the subject!!! My friend, it is not a genetic, but rather a perverted choice that homosexuals make. Nothing more; nothing less. God makes NO MISTAKES in His creative efforts. He is incapable of error...He is omniscient! He is not the initiator of sin...that's Satan's realm! The mere suggestion that God not only condones, but is actually part of the process in homosexuality confirms that the speaker of such lunacy is completely self-deceived and therefore, unable to have a sane discussion about the truth. For a true believer to even spend time DEBATING whether God accepts or rejects what He calls an abomination is the folly of fools. Instead, after sharing the plan of salvation with a homosexual, your time will be more productively spent praying that the Word of God will save the soul of such a one. Haven't you read that we should flee the presence of evil?

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    vse, I agree and would even say that if same-sex marriage/union becomes the law of the land marriage will in essence become undefinable.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    If you open the door to change one part of the definition then you open the door to change any part of the definition and in essence marriage will cease to exist.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Marriage by definition is between one man and one woman. If you can alter the definition to remove the gender requirement than you can alter it to remove the number requirement. Or even the relationship requirement. That way siblings could marry too. I will bet you $1 that if this goes through the polygimists will have a right to cry discrimination too.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Phat said, “Absolutely. You are allowed ONE spouse.”

    Marriage by definition is between one man and one woman. If you change the gender requirement then why can’t you change the number requirement? Or even the relationship requirements? That way siblings could be allowed to marry. I’ll bet you a $1 if this goes through the polygamists will challenge the ONE spouse requirement by claiming discrimination. Gays have the same rights to marry as heterosexuals. A gay man can marry any woman not his close relative, the same as any hetero male. Marriage is not about legalized sex. It is about two becoming one to form the ideal foundation for nurturing children. Children deserve a mother and a father under one roof. It is the ideal we should strive for as a society. That people can’t live up to the ideal is not a reason to toss it out the window.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike22685, being made in the image of God is a spiritual concept not a physical concept.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Phat said, “Absolutely. You are allowed ONE spouse.”

    Marriage by definition is between one man and one woman. If you change the gender requirement then why can’t you change the number requirement? Or even the relationship requirements? That way siblings could be allowed to marry. I’ll bet you a $1 if this goes through the polygamists will challenge the ONE spouse requirement by claiming discrimination. Gays have the same rights to marry as heterosexuals. A gay man can marry any woman not his close relative, the same as any hetero male. Marriage is not about legalized sex. It is about two becoming one to form the ideal foundation for nurturing children. Children deserve a mother and a father under one roof. It is the ideal we should strive for as a society. That people can’t live up to the ideal is not a reason to toss it out the window.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Phat said, “Absolutely. You are allowed ONE spouse.”

    Marriage by definition is between one man and one woman. If you change the gender requirement then why can’t you change the number requirement? Or even the relationship requirements? That way siblings could be allowed to marry. I’ll bet you a $1 if this goes through the polygamists will challenge the ONE spouse requirement by claiming discrimination. Gays have the same rights to marry as heterosexuals. A gay man can marry any woman not his close relative, the same as any hetero male. Marriage is not about legalized sex. It is about two becoming one to form the ideal foundation for nurturing children. Children deserve a mother and a father under one roof. It is the ideal we should strive for as a society. That people (gay or straight) can’t live up to the ideal is not a reason to toss it out the window.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike, we are not born without sin. The Bible teaches us that we are conceived in sin. Romans 3:23 says "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans chapter 5 teaches us that our sin nature is a result of Adam's sin and has been passed down from generation to generation.

    It is a misnomer to assume that we are without sin. We are sinners by nature and by choice. Sin comes naturally to us and we also choose to sin.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:00 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Mike, I agree with Believer's last post. God made me attracted to women. Yet God says that for me to lust after her is a sin. Sexual lust for anyone weather male or female is sin. Have I sinned in this way? YES. One could justify lust by claiming "God made me that way" but that does not satisfy God's righteousness.

    Again the act of sexual immorality is sin whether hetero or homosexual. Your "life experiences" are real but that does not make them acceptable to our Holy God. My life experience are real too (most of which did not honor God) but that does not validate them before God. My life experience has been filled with SIN therefore I must submit to God's word that says, "Repent, or you will all likewise perish." That word is for me and for you. I am no better or no worse than you and vise-versa.
    Christ died for our sin. We must accept his death as our substitute and turn to Him for forgiveness.

    Here is what God's word says about sin and sinners, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike22685 wrote: "Forgiven: I was raised Catholic, so I have always had faith, but I would say I was "born again" in terms of truly understanding God's role in my life during my junior year of HS. I had come out before that, then convinced myself I could "pray the gay away" then became so messed us that I wanted to die, and eventually I got to the place where I am now which is loving myself and knowing God loves me too."

    Let me start by saying how I sympathize with your struggles. I've had struggles of my own life experiences. I was told I was Catholic, but never practiced the religion. I was, I think close to the age you now (22685?) when I meet someone that would change the course of my life.

    It appears our understandings of "born again" are different. I understand that God did in fact give us particular talents to use for Him, but as far as our "life experiences", we are too lay them aside and become new. Oh, boy how I struggle with this. I understand the "pray the *insert any struggle* away". Me, too, even now. We can pray all we want, but until we move ourselves in line with His Word nothing may happen or something not from God. What I mean is this, again how I struggle with this, God is not going to release us from anything until we are an active participant in letting go.

    I have a huge struggle with unforgiveness and trust. I continue to pray, but then do nothing to really participate in the process. I know what I need to do and one day soon I'll allow God to have His work in me.

    It really is all about choice. Letting go can be a torturous experience, but promises "His purposed life experience" for us on the other side.

    God loves all His children and is waiting so patiently for all His children that have separated themselves from Him.

  • Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The homosexual agenda has been driven by a pseudoscience that the media has used to brainwash most of society. Homosexuals cannot help themselves, we have been told, because homosexuality is genetic...

    When asked whether paedophilia , bisexuality, multisexuality are genetic... or bestiality, or necromancy...many have taken this as an insult and simply not discussed it. The taboo that the breakers of taboo will not touch...

    But is homosexuality genetic?

    Identical twins by definition have the same DNA. Yet, it will be found that while one of the twins may be a homosexual the other is not necessarily one also.

    Can homosexuality then, simply be a result of a biochemical/brain disfunction -

    Drug addictions are able to affect the way the brain functions at the basic level.

    This isnt limited to drugs; it applies to anything that we become sensitized to, dependent and attached to for a long period of time...

    Repeated behaviour creates a path which our brain cannot do without. A path, much like a railway track to a train, or a road to a car...where our brain has an extremely difficult time leaving it once it is built.

    How else then shall we explain bisexuality, or paedophilia, or numerous other behaviours...?

    The mind has been trained through repetitive and continued use of that path to the point where it cannot do anything else but travel on that road.

    How else can we explain drive? the drive of a millionaire to become a billionaire, unable to stop...but to keep on piling up more and more.

    Or the collector of rubbish who keeps on collecting more and more rubbish till the house and the yard and everything owned is totally filled with it, but wont stop bringing more in..

    Or with anorexics...can we show that it is genetic? again, using the idea of identical twins, you will find that just because one is anorexic, the other does not necessarily follow...

    And with anorexics there is a particularity that should be noted. We see that although they are in every respect truly thin...they completely see themselves as fat...undermining every reality that is flung their way

    Homosexuals are the same. Although their sexual parts are there and they can bear children on their own without any problems...many have gotten themselves in a predicament where they will not admit to their true gender, or their ability to have children...

    And yet, what is society to do? Shall society condone as marriage the vices of necromancy?

    shall society condone as marriage the vices of those practicing animal love?!..

    Shall society legislate paedophilia as marriage?!

    Shall society legislate anorexia to be normal human behaviour that ought to be supported by the public?!

    A society that will not discriminate will eventually become indifferent to all the vices that ultimately destroy it...

    Ultimately God does judge these types of societies for their indifference, and their acceptance of human vice as a good thing….

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Believer, we are all made in God's image and likeness, so yes, God did make me that way. Its my understanding that until you enter the world you do not have sin, so if science proved that I was gay before I could make the choice to sin, then it would follow that God did in fact make me gay. If my sexual orientation is going to make or break your faith, I'd challenge you to dig a bit deeper.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Bigtex, I am very saddened that you again invalidate my life experience and accuse me of being a victim of molestation or the like. You have these theories and you buy into them hook line and sinker, but they do not match up in a psychological point of view. If you have that much faith then God bless you, but I do not think God ever intended for his word to be used to invalidate other truths like science or to convince yourself that my life experience must be blocking something. I have dug very deep into emotional scarring, and none of it comes from my parents, friends, or loved ones. Sorry to wreck your theory.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Forgiven: I was raised Catholic, so I have always had faith, but I would say I was "born again" in terms of truly understanding God's role in my life during my junior year of HS. I had come out before that, then convinced myself I could "pray the gay away" then became so messed us that I wanted to die, and eventually I got to the place where I am now which is loving myself and knowing God loves me too.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    mike22685, plus even if science were to discover a gene that causes a person to be born homosexual that does not mean that God made you that way, sin impacted our world in every area possible to include our genetic make-up.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:56 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Mike; let me say with all certainty (according to Scripture) GOD DID NOT MAKE YOU GAY!!! If we were to sit down and dig deep into your life, I am sure we can go back to an experience, a person or an event that triggered your attraction to other men. No one, I repeat, no one is "born" gay. That concept is not Biblical. I have studied scripture in depth for more than 20 years and have three degree in Bibical Studies. I have yet to find any evidence God made anyone gay. That argument is invalidated by God's word. So this forces me to conclude there are other forces that caused you to be attracted to other men.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike22685; sorry i just got back online. Let me say first, I respect you as a person. You are a creation of God and He loves. But I can only validate my claim by using Christian Scripture. God's word clearly defines homosexuality as a sin. Again homosexuality is a sexual sin that destroys God's perfect plan. When one reads the Bible one finds that God's perfect plan was from the beginning to create more human being that He might bless. After creating Adam and Eve God told them to multiply. God is building a family of faithful people that will worship and honor Him with their lives.

    Now two men or two women cannot fulfill God's plan because they cannot reproduce. God's perfect plan is for men and women to marry. There is never a reference in Scripture where the act of homosexuality is blessed of God. There are several references to God blessing a husband and wife in the sexual experience. The Bible says Abraham went into Sarah and conceived a son. This union is blessed of God. The result of the blessing was Isaac through whom God blessed the world with Jesus.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    phat, Canada has not been allowing same-sex marriage for years, a few years yes, but not years.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:27 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    phat, what right do you have to say I will be limited to one spouse, what if I'm bi-sexual why can't I have a male spouse and a female spouse or even a pair of each?

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:59 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    "It isn't rocket science. Canada's been allowing it for years, and the sky hasn't fallen."

    Then move to Canada!

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:15 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    One spouse per person. Just the way heterosexual couples have had it for a long time, only now we recognize that Gay couples are part of the fabric of American life also. What could possibly be closer to "Equal Protection" than that?

    No one is forcing churches to marry Gay couples, any more than churches are being forced to marry Muslim or atheist couples. But the fact remains that the federal government has a vested interest in marriage for the purpose of tax law and Social Security, so marriage has to apply to Gay and Straight couples alike.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Can there even be a definition [of marriage]"?

    Absolutely. You are allowed ONE spouse.
    If you are Straight man, your spouse will be a Straight woman.
    If you are a Gay man, your spouse will be a Gay man.
    If you are a Straight woman, your spouse will be a Straight man.
    If you are a Lesbian, you spouse will be a Lesbian.

    It isn't rocket science. Canada's been allowing it for years, and the sky hasn't fallen. Nothing had happened to so-called "traditional" marriage; Straight couples continue to date, get engaged, get married, and build lives and families together just as they always have.

    And the notion that if you allow Gay couples to marry, polygamy is surely to follow? Feh. That's like saying if you allow a man to marry ONE woman, than you HAVE to let him marry two or more also. Besides, polygamous marriages would make a mess of tax laws, Social Security, divorce laws, etc.

    One spouse per person. Works in Canada. It will work in the United States.

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:15 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike22685 wrote: "I am a man of faith, and it pains me when people tell me God did not make me gay, but invalidate my life experience."

    This is with all seriousness and respect for discussion's sake I ask: Did God make you gay before or after your conversion to the Faith?

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike22685 and phat, so if same-sex marriage becomes the law of the land, what will be the new definition of marriage or can there even be a definition?

  • Thu Nov 20, 2008 7:47 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I guess it bears saying again: It is not the courts' job to uphold the precise will of the majority of the people. That's what elections are for. The job of the courts is to uphold the Constitution, regardless of whether the necessary decisions fall in line with the will of the majority. It is up to the judges to determine, without bias from the rest of the population, what constitutes equality under the law, or equal protection. It seems more than obvious to me that to exclude Gays from the institution of marriage is a clear violation of any notion of "equality," and I have yet to see anyone dispute that on a rational level. Therefore, it is not "activism" on the part of judges to declare that Gay and Straight couples should be treated equally under the law, rather it is an example of judges performing their rightful duty.

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Bigtex, the difference being, you can get married to the girl you want to have sex with and magically it is not a sin. If God created me gay, there is no point as you claim it would always be a sexual sin. I have known many gay adoptive couples who make gay parents, and I know my partner and I will join the ranks somewhat soon. I am a man of faith, and it pains me when people tell me God did not make me gay, but invalidate my life experience. I can tell you, for a fact, that I most certainly never chose to be gay, but many care not to hear that as it might invalidate their faith. Thoughts?

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    For the record, I am not a homophobe. Though I would classify myself as as "Theophobe." I fear no man, but the "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Finally, someone may say "God made me a homosexual so I just can't help it." Therefore they become sexually active with another of the same gender. Another may say, "God made me a heterosexual, I just can't help it." So he has sex with the girl. Both are wrong. Both claimed that God made them that way but truth is God did not give the permission to have sex.
    It is unfortunate that humans taken the beauty of the created order and perverted it (wheather homosexual or heterosexual)and made it into an animalistic behavior.

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Daverley, Can I be completely honest here with you. I never had to "make a decision" on who I was attracted to. It was the natural beauty of a woman (1st grader when I was in the 1st grade) that cause me to be attracted to a female. The thought of being attracted to another guy never crossed my mind. Back in my day the concept of homosexuality was anathema. The first time I had heard of homosexuality I was in the fifth grade and it was rumored that Jim Neighbors and Rock Hudson were "buddies."

    It was believed by most people that homosexuality was a "mental disorder. " In fact it was classified as such until the 1970's. I used to go along with this understanding until a few years ago. I no longer believe that homosexuality is a mental disorder.

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Bigtex: If we follow your logic, I guess YOU are able to decide what gender you're attracted to. When did you "decide" you were heterosexual? Does that also imply that you must have been homosexual at some point?

    Mdcar: That "Adam and Steve" phrase is so lame and tired. Can't you be a little more original?

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:25 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Last I remember, this is a nation of the people, for the people and by the people. THE PEOPLE have spoken and they said "NO" to gay marriage. Now can't the gay community be respectful of the people's will and just be tolerant. I feel as though the GLBT speak out of both sides of their mouth. They demand tolerance from "straight" people yet themselves are intolerant of
    others when they don't get their way.

    Most American, most Californians and most people do not approve of GLBT as has been proven time and time again. We will not submit to continued efforts to force the GLBT agenda or lifestyle down our throats. ("It just ain't natural!)

    And by the way, please don't compare your sexual deviant behavior to another's race. No, I cannot help the color of my skin. Yes, you can help who you are attracted to. Skin pigmentation is genetic. Like every sin, homosexuality is a choice.

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    This is the wrong question. One task of the judiciary in this country is to protect minorities from the tyranny of majorities.

    The issue potentially before the California court is whether Prop 8 constitutes a constitution amendment or a constitution change which requires more than just a simple majority of voters.

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:07 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    God is moving at incredible speeds and responding to blue is only a distraction from the devil. Keep looking forward. Praise the Lord who created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

  • Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:28 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    blue, so they were smart enough to vote for Obama, but too stupid to vote for same-sex marriage?

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