Updated 12:47 pm.EST, Sun November 22, 2009

Ministries|Mon, Nov. 24 2008 08:32 AM EST

Ted Haggard's Return May Be Too Early, Some Say

By Eric Gorski|Associated Press Writer

By then, Haggard had moved his family back to Colorado Springs and was selling life insurance at their $700,000 home down the road from New Life Church, angering some who thought he should stay away.

"I had confidence his heart was solid, his theology is sound and the message he's always bought to the body of Christ would come forth," Byrd said. "The Bible is filled with great leaders, men and women of God, who have failed. They were restored and resumed roles they were called to previously."

In the sermons, Haggard said a co-worker of his father molested him when he was 7, an experience that "started to produce fruit" when he turned 50. Haggard said something "started to rage in my mind and in my heart." Haggard said though some allegations were exaggerated, "I really did sin."

He apologized for making his family suffer, acknowledged suicidal thoughts and chastised church leaders for missing an opportunity to use his scandal to "communicate the gospel worldwide." Haggard said he emerged with a stronger Christian faith and marriage than he'd ever had.

Byrd said he was not restoring Haggard to Christian ministry and introduced him as a businessman — hinting at a possible future speaking to churches and civic groups.

"You could make a career out of your reformed fallen Christian life," said David Edward Harrell, a retired Auburn University history professor who studies charismatic and Pentecostal Christianity. "What you can't do is go back and do the same thing. Once you've lost that clientele, it's lost."

Evangelicals believe God can change hearts, yet Haggard also must be held accountable and should not return to ministry early, if ever, said David Neff, editor of Christianity Today magazine.

"It's like someone who has announced he's an alcoholic and they've got that under control and are dry now," said Neff, a National Association of Evangelicals executive committee member. "You don't want to chance putting them back in the situation where it could happen again."

The risk is diminished if Haggard seeks a role outside the pulpit, Neff said. Yet if Haggard stumbles again as a Christian speaker, it could crush those he inspired, he said.

On the Sunday after Haggard's return went public, Russ Gordon sat studying his Bible in the coffee shop of New Life Church in Colorado Springs. A church member for 12 years, Gordon said he's concerned Haggard stopped the restoration process, but he listened to Haggard's sermons and found them sincere.

"I can't really judge what's in his heart," Gordon said. "I think we have to watch and observe and see his actions. We as Christians believe in giving second chances. I just say, we all have fallen short."

Sitting a few tables away, Sandy Oltrogge had harsher words for her former pastor.

"I wish he'd just leave it alone and let God promote him and not promote himself," she said. "It's good he can apologize, but I don't think anyone can believe anything he says after that."

A New Life spokeswoman would not comment on whether the church believes Haggard has violated his severance agreement, which paid him a year's salary. The church is trying to move on.

"It's sort of like the mouse in the corner," said church elder Paul Ballantyne. "If he wants to squeak, he can squeak. But I don't think it's going to affect New Life."

Haggard's replacement, Brady Boyd, approved a three-sentence statement saying that while the church cannot endorse Haggard returning to ministry, "we do wish him only success in his business endeavors."

And on the day Haggard returned to the pulpit in another state, Boyd began a sermon series on heaven.

Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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  • Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike, I'll do my best to find a copy of it, but if you have any ideas please feel free to let me know as where I live has limited access to DVDs of this nature, thanks.

  • mike »
    Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    to believer
    if you have time just watch that dvd constantine's sword by james carroll. he was a jesuit priest who investigated the church's history of persecuting those who were not christians. if not, then I cant say anthing more.
    it showed there that after the us air force cadets soldiers were converted to christian, other should follow suit. if not, they were treated differently. like in daniel & revelations, if you do not follow you cannot buy or sell. that is what pope xv did in 1555. and there were plenty of examples especially the 2003 war in iraq.

  • Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mel, and which ones does he not meet?

  • Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Sandy Oltrogge - wise lady

  • Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:09 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And why is that? Are you one of his personal mentors that knows something we don't?

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "Repentance is repentance." Well said. And the criteria for an overseer in God's church are just as clear. Haggard does not meet them.

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 7:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Repentance is repentance. Whether from a sinner or a saint.

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 5:11 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "It's amazing how God works. Paul was a mass murderer. After his repentance he became the greatest evangelists of all times.
    Repentance. Such a misunderstood, and most criticized attribute. "

    Paul took 14 years before he started full time ministry. Also, his sins were committed before he came to know Christ.

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike, I don't understand where you got the idea I would advocate the union of church and state?

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Mike,

    The danger of union of church and state is when either of those spheres tries to usurp the authority of the other as given by God. God has created the social order and is to be excluded from none of it. His divine imprint is on all social spheres and they all answer to Him.

  • mike »
    Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    to believer
    read daniel 3 - it shows there the dangers of union of church & state & watch james carroll's CONSTANTINE'S Sword. it showed there the union of church & state. the catholic church in 1555 proclaimed an edict banning jews to own business, land & other harsh rules bec. they were not christians.

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:17 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I think the key here is Haggard's attitude. It is clear from the things he has been doing that he's not ready. It's clear from his leaving the restoration program and defying the wishes of his former church, that he still has an arrogant/over-confident attitude. This worries me more than anything. There are always root causes to addictions, and one of the most common is an attitude of entitlement and self reliance. Both of these are bubbling up right now for him. He feels the urge to lead again. He feels that he doesn't need to hear the hard truths from wiser people who have been walking in freedom. These are serious red flags.

    Should he be blackballed from ministry in the future because of his fall? Not necessarily, but I'm really afraid for him that his urgency to resume leadership is fueled by something other than self sacrifice (which is, by the way, the requirement for all pastors).

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "It's amazing how God works. Paul was a mass murderer. After his repentance he became the greatest evangelists of all times.
    Repentance. Such a misunderstood, and most criticized attribute. "

    The key part of the above statement is "AFTER," Ted H was already supposedly beyond this "after repentance," so he therefore has nothing left but forgivness from God. His pastorship is over, he needs to move on. What he done was deeply disturbing for anyone, especialy for a pastor.

  • Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:24 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    To early is an understatement. He should never return to the pulpit.

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    prophet, I agree totally if he indeed has repented and allows accountability measures to be put in place to hopefully help him in the future, they why not allow him to lead again. Perhaps not immediately but why not gradually.

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer,
    I do agree with you whole heartedly. But I don't think that keeping him from returning to leadership period is a proper road to take.

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    prophet, I can't speak for everyone but for me I think that although the man may return to the pastorate it will take time and if it is done prematurely it could cause even more severe problems for both the man and church. The timeframe would be on a case by case basis and a lot would depend on the seriousness of the offense that led to him having to step out of the pastorate in the first place. But I do firmly believe that the ultimate goal should be restoration in both his relationship to God and the body and to his future role in the ministry as well.

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It means, that if a pastor, who is in no way blameless, can retain his position, what is to say that a man who has fallen, had truly repented and turned from that sin, cannot be restored to a pastoral position?

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    So, Paul's words in 1 Timothy 3 mean nothing then?

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I Timothy 3 says that Bishops (leaders) must be blameless. Does anyone know any pastors/bishops that are completely blameless?
    I don't need an answer. We all know the answer to that one.

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Prophet,"
    No one on this blog is criticizing repentance as an "attribute." Paul's criteria for an overseer of a church go beyond this' these are Scriptural criteria, not mine.

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It's amazing how God works. Paul was a mass murderer. After his repentance he became the greatest evangelists of all times.
    Repentance. Such a misunderstood, and most criticized attribute.

  • Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:09 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    artm,
    You seem to be confusing ministry with overseer. There are plenty of opportunities for ministry in the church. One doesn't have to be in a position of authority in order to minister. Mr. Haggard, if he demonstrates his genuine repentance, should be restored to FELLOWSHIP not Pastorship or any other paid authoritative position within the body. Why is that so difficult to accept?

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    artm,

    Who has said anything about "casting them away like dirt." The only claim being made, as far as I can tell, is that there should be no automatic restoration to office. The repentant person should still be forgiven, loved, and welcomed. Nobody here is saying anything that you are accusing them of.

    The Bible doesn't tell us how to respond in every situation. Instead, it gives us principles to follow. Wisdom would dictate ensuring that whatever ensnared the person should be properly dealt with. Even then, he may still be disqualified from ministry depending on the office and the offense.

    You never answered my question about the child molesting brother. I suspect this is because you wouldn't want him teaching your child. That's wisdom.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Please look at the words, the adjectives, of 1 Timothy 3, artm: "above reproach," "sober-minded," "self-controlled," "respectable." These are Scripture's criteria for an overseer in God's church. These aren't "man-made" rules.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I am a justified sinner--as are you. But you still have not dealt at all with the text of 1 Timothy 3. According to the Apostle Paul, Haggard is not qualified for the position of overseer in God's church. This has NOTHING to do with God's forgiveness.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Melancthon, You use 1-Timothy to make your case, I believe what this passage says, But are you saying that if anyone Fail's in any of these area's, There is no forgivness or restoration.?

    Does Failour in any of these area's mean that upon Even repentance there is no restoration.?

    Is one dis-qualifies forever from Ministry.?

    Please, you do err the Scriptures.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Melancthon, Neither do you, I don't know you, But I know you are not perfect yet. You had better put your stone's away.

    We are to restore the fallen Brethern with a spirit of meekness, not pride and self righteousness.

    I know what it is to fail God, I know the hurt and shame that comes from Failour, I also know what it is to have the Brethern cast you away like dirt.

    I also know what the Bible says concerning forgivness, Grace, and Restoration, And I thank God I do, If I didn't, I would probally have quit years ago.

    Two men saw a drunk laying in the gutter, One man bent over to pick the drunk up, The other man told him, It was a waist of time, He would only go back to his sin again,
    The second man looked at his Brother and said, " If not for the Grace of God, There go I."

    Brethern, If not for the Grace of God, Anyone of you could have done what Mr Haggard did, And if you do not believe that, May God have Mercy on you.

    And I hope you never have to find out.
    Your problem is not with me, it is with the Word of God.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    The Bible does not say "restore someone to his office;" you are confusing categories. Again--deal with the verses from Timothy; don't ignore them.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    If there was genuine repentance, and a turning from sin, the Bible says to, " Restore such a one in meekness, lest you also be tempted."

    What about sin committed by you,? will you dis-qualify yourself from Ministry when you fail in some way.?

    Would you want the Church to discard you like some piece of dirty rag.?

    I will ask again for you to show me from Scripture where the sinning Christian, who genuinely repents and turns from that sin, is not to be restored to their position of Ministry.

    Your own reasoning is not acceptable, give me Scripture.

    I did not agree with Mr Haggard's message, Bt if I go by much of the posts on this subject, No doubt everyone of you would have to be Dis-qualified from Ministry.

    Unless, you tell me you never sin, or miss the mark in any way.

    Mr Haggard's sin was a terrible thing, But it is no worse than those of you who Gossip, or lie, or steal, or watch filth of tv, or are mean to their spouce.

    I am not making excuse for sin, It is a terrible thing to fail in any degree at all, But thank God for forgivness and restoration.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Artm,
    I'm not talking about me, or Peter, or John Mark, but about Ted Haggard. The fact is he does not meet the criteria for overseer, as outlined by the Apostle Paul.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:33 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    artm,

    "I am not talking about a teacher molesting a child, I am talking about a brother that has sinned, and I assume repented."

    What if the teacher was a brother who molested a child? Would you restore him to teaching young children if he repented?

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:25 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Melacthon, if I were to use your example, When peter fell into sin by denying to know Christ, You would throw him out to the dogs, Did Peter meet the standard you quote.?

    You would deny Mark restoration to the Ministry, Because he left Paul on a missionary trip.

    Show me from Scripture, where Failour means dis-qualification forever from Ministry.

    It is not my intent to defend Mr Haggard, But to defend the truth of Scripture.

    Melancthon, Do you meet the qualifications outlined in 1-Tim 3,?. Let Him that is without sin cast the first stone.

    The Bible tells us, " What measure you meet, it shall be measured ubto you."

    The degree of Grace you give to Mr Haggard, Is the measure God will give to you, Be very careful.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mburrell, The Bible says," Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." Sounds like you cauld use little help yourself.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Artm,
    Read carefully 1 Timothy 3, where Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, outlines the qualifications for overseers in a church, and then tell me with a straight face that someone like Haggard meets the criteria. It DOES NOT just take forgiveness by God of a sin to qualify someone to be a minister in His church.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:11 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    but i think he is creepy looking....

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    my wife's cousin is gay. he would like to get in touch with haggard. he thinks he's a pretty nice looking man.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    ar, you see restoration as immediate and I see it as a process. I'm not saying permanently disqualify him although I know some who would support that, I'm talking about a process that will benefit both him and the ministry or church he is a part of. As a former substance abuse counselor I can tell you of too many cases where someone who was in recovery for a short period of time thought he had whipped the problem and went solo way to fast and quickly crashed and burned into relapse. My concern is for Ted Haggard as much as it is for his family and ministry he believes God desires to use him.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Please show me in Scripture what you speak of as Forgivness. Second, What you offer is not God's kind of forgivness, For your own sake serch the Scriptures, For God does not accept what you offer as forgivness.

    Then, I am not talking about a teacher molesting a child, I am talking about a brother that has sinned, and I assume repented.

    When you sin, Then repent, does God remove you from Office, If so, please show me where you find that.

    The Church wants to control people. Please do not take this matter lightly, It is very Important.

    God does not hold your past sin's over your head, and we as christians have no right to do it either.

    Someone said, " This is sloppy agape " If you want those who have sinned and then " Repented " to wait two years before they can Minister again, That is not in the Bible, If you believe it is, Please show me where.

    If we sin, we must own that sin, and God will certainly deal with us for it, But I thank God He offers Grace to repent, and, Restoration.

    What most of the Church offers is not love at all, Just man made rules and regulations.

    If Ted Haggard does not walk in this matter according to God's Word, It won't be long before he fall's again.

    They want him to attend some religious class, or go to some kind of Doctor before he can be restored, Please show me that in the Bible.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    How does evangelizing the US Air Force make him dangerous? I praise God that He had Navigator reps at Langley AFB in 1971 who actively evangelized Airmen and as a result I came to know Christ as Savior and Lord. We need to be careful that we don't throw out the baby with the bath water, he sinned against God, his wife and family, and his church yes, but his whole time in ministry he was not willfully living in sin and in fact God powerfully used him. But at the same time as a result of his sin I don't believe personally he is ready to jump back into the saddle. I believe there needs to be a serious accountability structure set up that will allow him to slowly but surely move back into ministry to ensure there are safeguards in place and weaknesses identified that we'll as best a possible keep him from falling in the future and ensure he is truly ready to return to a prominent role in ministry. I believe something like this was put into place and may still be in place with regards to Jim Bakker.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show TED HAGGARD EXPOSED IN SNAKES IN THE PULPIT NEW BOOK- SNAKES IN THE PULPIT WWW.SNAKESINTHEPULPIT.COM WWW.REUBENARMSTRONGSHOW.COM hide

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Artm,
    Forgiveness by God DOES NOT equate to restoration to the ministry. Jeepers. This is "sloppy agape." The Apostle Paul--remember him?--had qualifications for those overseeing a church body.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    artm,

    Appropriate restoration to fellowship and relationship is indeed part of forgiveness. However, this is not the same as restoring someone to the same position they were previously in. This doesn't mean this can't be done; only that it is a separate decision that requires careful discernment and consideration. If a teacher molests a child, should we forgive him? Yes, if he/she truly repents. Should he/she be restored as a teacher of young children? Probably not.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:49 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Too hold this Brother's sin against him when there has been repentance, is not " God's kind of forgivness."

    And if this Brother is forbiden to Minister when there is genuine repentance, is not " God's kind of forgivness."

    Read Matthew 18:23-35. This is God's kind of Forgivness, See that there is not one place in that passage of Scripture about " Penance ".

    Forgive, and that means restoration to Ministery, or God will not forgive you your trespasses.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Forgivness and restoration is indeed the samething.

    When God forgives one of His children, does he not restore that fellowship and relationship,?

    Is not that believer then restored to his former realationship with God's Church.?

    No, When a believer truly repents, they are then forgiven, and restored to their former position in ministry, if that is not the case, where then is the forgivness.

    Study God's kind of Forgivness, It is as if the act was never committed, And we are to treat that Brother or Sister as if they never committed the act.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It is clear from Scripture that those who presume to take the role of teacher are held to a higher standard. Forgiving him is a no-brainer as a Believer, allowing him to throw himself right back into the addictive behaviors that contributed to his "fall" (his are classic control addiction symptoms) in the first place is not healthy nor Biblically sound.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:16 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Forgiving someone and restoring them to a previous position of service are not the same thing.

  • artm »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    If God has forgiven this man, And if He has truly asked for forgivness, then let him alone.

    God said, If you do not forgive this man his trespasses, then God will not forgive you your trespasses.

    The church wants to control people, Let God deal with this man, Again, if he has asked God to forgive him, and has turned from that sin, then it is required, that we forgive him also.

  • Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here's what I say:
    * Has God forgiven him?
    * Is God sovreign over us?
    * Have you forgiven him?

    I realize that we're all sinners helping each other toward that promised land of Heaven. I say lift our brother up in prayer, rather than condemn him with judgement.

  • mike »
    Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    this man is dangerous. When he was the head of new life church he was evangelising the US Air force in colorado.
    Daniel 3 describes the dangers of union of church & state.
    4 Then the herald loudly proclaimed, "This is what you are commanded to do, O peoples, nations and men of every language:
    5 As soon as you hear the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp, pipes and all kinds of music, you must fall down and worship the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up.
    6 Whoever does not fall down and worship will immediately be thrown into a blazing furnace."

    7 Therefore, as soon as they heard the sound of the horn, flute, zither, lyre, harp and all kinds of music, all the peoples, nations and men of every language fell down and worshiped the image of gold that King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

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