The recent comment touted by some media outlets as the Vatican’s forgiveness of Beatles legend John Lennon is not quite the papal pardon many think it to be.
When L'Osservatore Romano marked the 40th anniversary of the Beatles’ White Album last week, it dismissed as a "boast" Lennon's 1966 claim that the Beatles were “more popular than Jesus.”
"The remark by John Lennon, which triggered deep indignation mainly in the United States, after many years sounds only like a 'boast' by a young working-class Englishman faced with unexpected success, after growing up in the legend of Elvis and rock and roll," the Vatican’s daily newspaper wrote.
As innocent as the newspaper’s statement was, a number of media outlets worldwide brought the statement into the spotlight with headlines proclaiming “Vatican ‘Forgives’ John Lennon,” “John Lennon Finally Forgiven by Vatican” and a few going as far as claiming that the Catholic Church or even the pope himself had finally forgiven Lennon.
But church historian and Catholic commentator Paul Collins points out that the opinions printed in the paper do not necessarily reflect those of the pope.
"It is checked on by the Secretariat of State, I suppose we would call it censored by the Secretariat of State which is really the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet within the Vatican," he told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
"But while its articles on theology would certainly be taken as representing the Vatican's point of view, something like this John Lennon article sounds like a bit of a colour piece, as we would call it in Australia," he added.
CNN Rome Bureau Chief Alessio Vinci also shed light on the newspaper’s comment, sharing in her blog on Tuesday the story behind the article.
“So how did the story come about? Simple: the editor and two other colleagues, all Beatles fans, found themselves one day humming ‘Ob-la-di Ob-la-da life goes on bra…’ in the corridors of the Vatican-based newspaper,” Vinci reported after visiting the newsroom of L'Osservatore Romano.
And as the song was included in the Beatles’ White Album, which this Nov. 22 celebrated its 40th anniversary, the Vatican journalist thought it was a good opportunity to write something about the band.
“But what about that spat 40 years ago? Oh, that, yeah right… nah, not a big deal,” Vinci depicted the journalist as saying.
“Little did he know his story would make the world’s headlines.”
This past summer, Lennon had also made headlines after an interview that was recorded in 1969 aired on BBC Radio 4's “Sunday” program.
In the interview, conducted by Ken Seymour of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation when Lennon was at the Bed-In for Peace protest in Montreal, Lennon said his notorious 1966 statement was misunderstood.
"It's just an expression meaning the Beatles seem to me to have more influence over youth than Christ," he explained.
Many Christians familiar with the incident today, however, note that his claim that the Beatles were “more popular than Jesus” was less disturbing than his comment that “Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink.”
In the 1969 interview, Lennon also claimed to be “one of Christ’s biggest fans” and that the Beatles were always “on the side of Christ.”
He blamed "the hypocrites" for being too "uptight" in reacting to his comments.
Experts, however, have argued against the claim, noting that while Lennon was fascinated by the life of the historical Jesus, bandmates Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr didn't have particularly strong religious feelings and George Harrison increasingly leaned toward Eastern religion.
“The Beatles started out as atheists and agnostics and I think as everybody knows they became more interested in spiritual things,” Steve Turner, author The Gospel According To The Beatles, told CNN. “ They went out to India in 1968 and I think in a way the Beatles became a spiritual force themselves.”
Lennon did return to the Christian faith for a brief time, announcing to close friends in the spring of 1977 that he'd become a born-again Christian. He was later “saved” from God by his wife, Yoko Ono, who “had again become the captain of his soul, the mistress of his destiny,” as Turner wrote in his 2006 book.
Lennon eventually announced that he was a "born again pagan."
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"Now, why would a self-professed "christian" argue that God, or Jesus, isn't bigger than everything?
Probably because His spirit is not in that "christian"."
Your most likely right in that prophet in that my spirit is not in that "Christian" as much as it could be. Please be assured I am more than aware of my shortcomings, I see the plank in my own eye before I see the twig in others.
Regards
Steve
Being a neurosurgeon, I've had the opportunity to witness to many people. Though I do good things, and help people, if they go to hell without ever hearing the Good News, I have failed.
Acts 2:32-33
"32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear."
Actrs 5:30-31
" 30The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."
Phhilippians 2:9-11
" 9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
He is the King of kings. Is that not bigger than anything? He is the Lord of lords. Is that not bigger than anything?
Now, why would a self-professed "christian" argue that God, or Jesus, isn't bigger than everything?
Probably because His spirit is not in that "christian".
Feeding the poor, and clothing the naked is very commendable. But to what end? Are you doing it for a reward? Or are you telling them about God's gift when you do it? The ultimate goal of everything we do, even our works of service, is to bring glory to God, and bring people unto repentance.
"21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Matthew 7
I prefer to think about feeding the poor, clothing the naked and visting the prisoner, but if others aim is making Jesus bigger then American Idol thats fine by me.
Thank you.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, but through Him. He is the author and perfector of our faith. Through Him, and by Him were all things made. He is the Beginning and the End.
There is nothing bigger, stronger, or more important than Him. Not money, fame, glory, material things, pride, or even our own, selfish, petty wants and desires. If any of those are bigger than Him, then that is your god. But, then again, why am I telling you this? Every Christian knows this to be true.
Feel free to keep going, be my guest...
"ou and others could ask themselves why it is so important for Jesus to be bigger than American Idol..."
Probably because He is God. Only He can save us. Only He paid the price for my sin. Only Him will I stand before on judgment day. Only Him has the power to change me.
Should I keep going? Because American Idol doesn't even come close....
Blackshoe89
You and others could ask themselves why it is so important for Jesus to be bigger than American Idol etc..You could ask yourselves if this type of thinking fits in with a religion which started with those who where the outcasts of society, the slaves, the prostitutes etc..the many who where chosen who where not wise etc...remebring that God delighted in the foolhinish things. This wanting to be bigger etc..says more I think about the disciples pondering it than it does about the world, it should cause concern. If the church in the states stopped worrying about such small matters as that it may be in a healthier state?
Want jesus to be bigger than American Idol, stop trying to make him, get on with doing what you should(and that includes just hoping some contestants on it will talk about their faith, that won't work either).
Not sure If that view will be popular,
BW
Steve
At the time John Lennon said that, it was the truth, in the sense that "bigger" means "more popular". I'm GLAD people were offended. It got their attention.
And I will tell you that today, American Idol is bigger than Jesus.
What can we, as brothers and sisters in Christ, do about that?
Prophet...Thats the spirit!!
LOL
Steve
Tallguy
Since October, Ringo has said he won't sign anymore autographs, I think he's got a bit carried away with himself for a drummer who was very lucky.
My fave Beatle was Pete Best!
:-P
Steve
Steve,
Then please quit putting words in people's mouths, and assuming things that aren't there.
Paul was my favorite Beatle anyway.....
You've misread the situation proph, my friend. The only reason for not answering is that you are doing to me what you have done to others who have picked you up on it also. You don't add anything to the debate, just try to pick people up with symantic tricks. Come join the debate its much more fun, make friends with people.
Steve
I thought as much...
And how do you surmise that he is at peace about it?
Prophet my friend, I think you have misunderstood the context of the word happily here. It is not used in the sense of smiley happy but in the sense that somebody is at peace or content etc.. in making a statement or carrying out an action for example, Sally was happy to put the cherries in the cake, jon was happy to pull the ball out of the lake etc...
I am glad we have got that sorted out and therefore you will no doubt understand that I stand by my statement.
Cheers mate
Steve
That's where you're wrong. He merely presented a point. You alone chose to make it seem like he was happy about it.
No prophet your quite wrong Chris was quite happy to claim JL never claimed Jesus as lord etc when he wrote..
""The key problem here is that John Lennon never asked for forgiveness, nor did he ever choose Christ as his Lord and Savior."
You really should not put words into my mouth ...lol
Steve
steve,
"but about the part where you are happy to claim he never made Jesus his lord and saviour, that stays the same"
msnchris never said he was happy that John never made Jesus his Lord. But he did say that he hoped he did make the decision for salvation before he died. Please don't put words in people's mouth.
Chris
My apologies I retract that part about hell, you are quite right, but about the part where you are happy to claim he never made Jesus his lord and saviour, that stays the same.
Regards
Steve
Whether John Lennon repented is known to God, if he did then he was forgiven. I had much rather be forgiven of my sin than pardoned by an earthly source. But this does emphasize one of the differences of Christianity from other religions. He was criticized by people at the time. But no one issued a demand for his death, imprisonment, or that he be brought up on charges. I'm sure that many faithful Christians prayed for him then and on the day of his death. I was a little too young to remember the incident at the time, but I'm also sure that some people made various demands in the name of their religion or of God, and that the the most outrageous of these were happily reported by the media.
Steve20,
Read my post again. I did not make any claim that John Lennon is in hell. I really hope that just before he was shot, or weeks before the incident that he cried out to the Lord for forgiveness and mercy. I hope he did turn to the Lord.
I only made comments based on his actions that were widely public at the time. If he persisted in these actions, especially sins that are mortal and without repentance then "YES" he is probably in Hell. I hope he came to a saving faith in Christ just before he died.
steveh20, only you could come up with that, but I basically moved to mainly Christian performers/groups, but I still listened and liked some secular rock like Jethro Tull and especially their Aqualung album.
star, what are you smoking?
Can I take it then believer that in yout after Christ days you liked Wings instead..
;-P
Steve
mburrell - You have no understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ for if you did you would have never said, "Charming.... It's remarks like this that really show the loving side of Christians.".
star2 wrote:
"If you could talk with John Lennon now in his eternal place of torment he would have a differnt take on Jesus."
Charming.... It's remarks like this that really show the loving side of Christians. Keep up the good work, star!
I'm with believer on this one too. After all, you didn't see thousands of young women showing up a church screaming when the service started now did you?
steveh20, I liked Sgt Peppers, Magical Mystery Tour, and Abbey Road, plus I thought the White Album was way overrated. But that was in my BC (Before Christ) days.
star /chris-so you have such complete knowledge of a mans soul and his realtionship with God you can claim with complete confidence you know he's in Hell? You know what occurs in those fleeting seconds before a mans death? Well your better than me thats for sure..
believer-spot on.
Steve
P.s Abbey road is their best album, yah sucks if you disagree.
If you could talk with John Lennon now in his eternal place of torment he would have a differnt take on Jesus.
chris, but don't you think it was a double whammy, one it was such a shocking statement and yet whether people wanted to admit it or not at that time in history it was true and for some who were offended it was even true for them?
John Lennon offended many Christians especially us Catholics. We don't take lightly to anyone claiming to be bigger than Jesus. It was blasphemy to even talk about the Lord in any other way than to worship Him.
John Lennon offended God by his statement. The Vatican is not like the oval office where every 4 years they can issue a pardon for someone. If someone is truly sorry for their sins, then they can go to confession and get absolution.
The key problem here is that John Lennon never asked for forgiveness, nor did he ever choose Christ as his Lord and Savior. Moreover, his life was a prime example of the Rockstar sinful lifestle. John had his god, it was himself. John served himself and worshipped himself through his actions.
Who cares Liverpudlian looks forward to Fernando Torres more than the dead Lennon whathisface
The reality is they were in the eyes of many people. I remember I was in the 8th grader at St. Ambrose School when he said that and one of our nuns shared that and she was very angry and it didn't get any better when I a boy who would begin seminary that fall said, but sister they are and I said if they came to the War Memorial on a Sunday morning and the choice was going to Mass or going to see the Beatles many would choose to go see them and not go to Mass. Her response was total silence and for a nun that was rare. But I have a problem with this article saying he returned to Christianity, it sounds more as if he like George Harrison passed through Christianity and never stayed long enough to have a genuine conversion experience. By the way at the time he said this I did not like the Beatles, that never happened until they came out with the Sgt. Pepper album.