Updated 07:54 am.EST, Mon November 23, 2009

Society|Sun, Nov. 30 2008 06:13 PM EST

Mormons Under Investigation Over Calif. Marriage Efforts

By Eric Young|Christian Post Reporter

The government body that enforces political campaign, lobbying, and conflict of interest laws in the state of California will be conducting an investigation of the Mormon church and its role in the campaign to ban gay marriage in the state.

The California Fair Political Practices Commission said this past week that it would investigate whether the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints accurately described its role in the campaign to pass Proposition 8 in response to a complaint by a gay rights group.

Fred Karger, founder of Californians Against Hate, accuses the religious body of failing to report the value of work it did to support Proposition 8, the constitutional amendment passed earlier this month by California voters that defines marriage as between one man and one woman.

“We are very pleased that the FPPC has agreed to launch an investigation based on our complaint,” expressed Karger, who filed a four-page complaint on Nov. 13, in a statement. “We’re hopeful the Mormon Church will fully cooperate with the investigation, and that we will find out the full extent of their involvement in the Yes on 8 campaign.”

Since the passage of Prop. 8 by a 52-to-48 percent vote, the Mormon church has been among the largest targets of outraged activists who want same-sex unions to be recognized as marriages.

“The Mormons played a vital role in the Prop 8 battle, and traditional marriage would have lost had it not been for their support,” explained Donald E. Wildmon, founder and chairman of the American Family Association, in an e-mail alert to supporters last Wednesday.

“While other churches were also involved in the battle to protect marriage – including Catholics and evangelicals – the homosexuals have singled out the Mormons as their target of anger,” he added.

In the months leading up to the Nov. 4 elections, the Mormon church had encouraged its members to work to pass California's Prop. 8 by volunteering their time and money for the campaign. Thousands of Mormons worked as grassroots volunteers and gave tens of millions of dollars to the campaign.

Following the passing of Prop. 8, protests erupted outside Mormon temples, Facebook groups formed telling people to boycott Mormon-affiliated companies, and Web sites such as mormonsstoleourrights.com began popping up, calling for an end to the religious group’s tax-exempt status.

Letters containing white powder - found later by the FBI to be nontoxic - were sent to the Salt Lake City headquarters of the religious group and to a temple in Los Angeles.

Utah's growing tourism industry and the star-studded Sundance Film Festival have also been targeted for a boycott by bloggers, gay rights activists and others seeking to punish the Mormon church for its aggressive promotion of California's ban on gay marriage.

"People of faith have been intimidated for simply exercising their democratic rights," Mormon church president Thomas S. Monson said in a statement.

"Attacks on churches and intimidation of people of faith have no place in civil discourse over controversial issues," he added. "People of faith have a democratic right to express their views in the public square without fear of reprisal. Efforts to force citizens out of public discussion should be deplored by people of goodwill everywhere."

Though Mormons and Christians often clash over theology, believers have been rallying together in support of the Mormon church, including the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which has offered "prayerful support and steadfast solidarity" to the Mormon church for its efforts on behalf of Prop. 8. Continue »

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  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Gr8tgary,

    Following your logic, anyone who eats lobster or wears polyester (or any mixed fabric) are an abomination unto the Lord, equal in sin as incestuous rapists, homosexuals and pedophiles.

    I do hope you practice what you preach and steer clear of the Red Lobster (the whole shell fish thing), Halloween (cause wearing a costume is an abomination), and Banks. Yes, according to the bible charging or paying interest is an abomination.

    And by your theory all are equal to the sin of being homosexual. Good luck trying to get into Heaven.

  • Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Having incest is just as much Abominiable as the act of Homosexuality, both acts are define within scripture as Abominible unto the Lord.

  • Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:01 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Daniel Paul wrote: "This is why the entire Bible is useful to me. It's not so much about events but the behavior of people in relation to those events. Yes, I believe in it as a history book but I get way more out of it looking at it from a sociology and psychology standpoint. It is a book which spells out the condition of mankind. The more things change the more they stay the same."

    I couldn't agree more! And this is the exact reason for the OT included with the NT. Another phrase: What we learn from history is that we do not learn.

  • Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "many more parts will drop away under scrutiny and better education. "

    The level of education has no impact on the level of wisdom. Wisdom says that one must understand the mindset of the people at the time in the Bible and see how God is addressing their attitudes and actions. As I look through the Bible, I see mankind as a constant. The mindset of man is the same although the individual focus may be different. This is also a problem I have with the concept of evolution. When studying the 'nature' of man throughout the Bible, one can see that man has not improved or made any real changes in 4000+ years.

    This is why the entire Bible is useful to me. It's not so much about events but the behavior of people in relation to those events. Yes, I believe in it as a history book but I get way more out of it looking at it from a sociology and psychology standpoint. It is a book which spells out the condition of mankind. The more things change the more they stay the same.

  • Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    it's difficult for me to tell which parts to keep. but i know that thoughtful people in this world are working on that. an interesting pbs special on today was "Jesus to Christ." this scholarship eventually trickles down into the general education of the populace. many "parts to leave out" have indeed been left out by most of Chrisendom by now (21st century). many more parts will drop away under scrutiny and better education. the best paarts of the Bible will never fall away, because they are helpful to us and our fellows. every 50 years it is remarkable to see the 'useless' scripture gone, where the valuable part survives - and always will.

  • Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:15 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Believer,

    Thankyou for listening. You have given me a great deal to ponder on, for which I greatly appreciate.

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mburrell,

    What part of the Bible would you like to keep?

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:22 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    "keep the valuable part of the Bible, not the nonsense"

    I do. The valuable part starts with Genesis 1:1 and ends with Revelation 22:21. The nonsense is where man ignores what is written and leans on their own understanding.

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    and The Rapture is DEFINITELY creepy! think about it. what a fairy tale. grow up! keep the valuable part of the Bible, not the nonsense that separates you from so many people.

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    delightinthelord:

    What's creepy?

    Men with men?

    Woman with woman?


    Call me strange - or creepy, but, yes, I think Mormonism is creepier than men with men and women with women.

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I cannot love a woman, I would never ever be one flesh with her, but I can be and have a partner, and I can do the best within my context"

    You have made our point brilliantly. It is YOUR context and not GODs context. Your relationship is not of God.

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:20 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    gs, there is a huge difference between being in a loving relationship and a sexual relationship. No one is saying you can't be in a loving relationship with another person and most importantly God does not say that. I have a sister-in-law who went through a very difficult marriage and divorce and has no desire to be with a man but she is not a homosexual and she shares her home with another woman who went through a similar experience and they live together as close friends, plus they are foster parents of three toddlers whose Mom tried to kill one of them and they are providing these kids with a safe and loving home to grow up in. Whether you believe it or not I do indeed hear your struggle but I also know that God will supply your every need if you allow Him and He'll give you the ability to enter into loving relationships that are void of sexual intimacy if you let Him, my prayer is that you will let God be God in every area of your life to include your sex life.

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rusty,
    "...I dont marry. Condemned for not being one flesh and for not populating...."

    Whoever would do that does not know the scriptures. Paul, in I Corinthians 7, encourages us to remain single and celebate. Because marriage distracts us from the ministry that God has for us.

  • Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer

    I couldnt possibly share any more of what is in my heart. Everything that I have said has been savaged and I have been insulted and people jump unfair conclusions. No, I think that this will be my last post

    It is easy for you people who have sexuality on your side. You are allowed to have your loving relationships, you are allowed to have families, and you are attracted to people of the opposite sex. It is easy for you to do what comes naturally to you

    I cant love people of the opposite sex as you and other people on this forum can. God knows I tried to be straight, but it doesnt work, and whether it is genetics or an environmental thing that makes people that way, well I dont think it matters, the fact is that I cannot, no matter what, love a woman as a straight man can. And dont you dare try to say I didnt try hard enough. You know nothing of the struggles I went through and I will not have those struggles dismissed or trivialised by you or Prophet or TrustntheLord

    So what does a gay man do? I cannot marry a woman. I cannot love her as a man should love his wife. It would be unfair to her. We would never be one flesh as ordained by God. Even this web site (Christian post at http://www.christianpost.com/article/20081129/homosexuality-misconceptions-in-ministry.htm) acknowledges that many homosexuals cannot change their sexual orientation. I am one of those homosexuals, and I accept that this is how I am in this life

    Why did God create Eve? It was to provide Adam with a help meet (partner) and to populate and replenish the Earth, and they were to do it as one flesh. I physically cannot obey that commandment. I cannot love a woman, I would never ever be one flesh with her, but I can be and have a partner, and I can do the best within my context

    It seems that no matter what I do I am condemned. I get married. I can populate, but am condemned for not being one flesh. I dont marry. Condemned for not being one flesh and for not populating. I go into a gay relationship, condemned for not populating but can be one flesh

    God intends for His children to be in loving relationships. I cannot do that in a heterosexual context. God intends for his children to have children. I cannot do that in a homosexual context

    I simply do the best that I can in my context. I have obeyed God and formed a loving relationship. I obey God by assisting with the populating and replenishing thing by being a foster parent. And yes, you are right, I am not doing the heterosexual man and woman one flesh thing, but I do the best that I can in my context. I am not promoting multiple sexual partners for gay men. I am promoting loving, committed relationships, and an enthusiastic assistance of heterosexual parenting

    I dont know, maybe its like Moses and the Canaanites or the calf worshippers, sure killing was a sin, but the Israelites did the best that they could in their context

    Anyway, this is my last post. I am spent

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    gs, I could do that but with something this crucial I'd really love to hear your heart in this matter. I mean this is who you are and it could determine your final destiny and destination. But if you're not willing I'll be disappointed but I can respect that as well.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Homosexuality is no more a genetic result than sex addictions, drug addiction, compulsive gambling, compulsive lying, etc, etc.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Rusty just "responded to some of the ill informed comments about homosexuality."

    I'd rather be "ill-informed" on homosexuality than completely illiterate on the Bible.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Yeah, Rusty it is all about entering by the Narrow Gate. Good luck to you on the Wide path of Destruction, it's a little like the loss leader lines at Walmart. There is a stampede.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DelightntheLord,

    I actually dont know how our conversation got to here. I originally got on to make a comment about the mormon political activity in california, and responded to some of the ill informed comments about homosexuality.

    It was intersting hearing your narrow view on christianity.

    Good bye.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Dear Misled Rusty

    You find my comments unhelpful? I can't do much about that.

    All that was asked of you was to find ONE bible verse to show that God approves homosexual love and/or that the design through creation can be AC/DC adaptable.

    Wasn't asking you to be articulate...just informed.

    There are no interpretations of the bible, unless you make one...and you can't even do that.

    So, why are you here in this forum talking to Christians about the bible and advocating anti biblical same sex.

    What, really is your point, Rusty?

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Point is....homosexuality is a sin, just as incest, fornication, adultery, or any other sexual immorality. As well as lying, murder, theft, bitterness, pride, greed, etc, etc.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You haven't gotten the point yet?

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    oh, just get to the point already.

    im sure you have an answer if I agree its gross or I dont agree its gross.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Stupid"?

    No, you just strayed from the topic. You said " I think that the Bible encourages loving, monogamous, life long relationships..."
    Adult incestuous relationships falls into that catagory. But is it that you just think incest is gross?

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer,

    Please refer to link to article below.

    http://wwwstaff.murdoch.edu.au/~loader/homosexuality.html

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    gs, my concern for anybody in any area of their life is they are living in synch with the Word of God and especially in those areas where God speaks so clearly such as the one we're discussing, so I would really challenge you to determine for yourself where God stands on these matters by using His Word to guide you. But if you have scripture to support your views I would love to hear them as well, thanks.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,

    Well, you could have just said that at the start in stead of playing that stupid game.

    And yes, I disagree with your interpretation of the Bible.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    No, adult incest relationships are no different from homosexual relationships. They are both sins. Don't forget, the original question was the view of incest from a Biblical standpoint, not a humanistic standpoint. Humans can justify anything and everything they do. God's word is plain. Homosexuality and incest are sinful.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,

    OK then.

    2 brothers are gay, they fall in love, should they be able to have a relationship? No, why? Because there are other gay men that are not their family that they can fall in love with.

    A brother and a sister fall in love, should they be able to have a relationship? No, why? Because there are other people of the opposite sex that are not their family that they can fall in love with.

    A gay man falls in love with another gay man, they are not brothers, should they be able to have a relationship? Yes, why? Because they are unable to fall in love with someone of the opposite sex.

    A man falls in love with a woman, they are not related, should they be able to have a relationship? Yes, why? Because they are unable to fall in love with someone of the same sex.

    I completely disagree with your assertion that homosexual relations are the same as incestuous relations, or whatever point you were trying to make. Head in the sand, please, enough with the insults.


    DelightntheLord,

    Well, there is not much I can do about your disappointment in me sending a link to an article, but that is how I have chosen to communicate my beliefs as the article is very articulate on matters that I could not articulate as well (and then you would attack me for not being articulate enough).

    Please read the article. I dont actually agree with everything in the article, but it gets across the general gist of what I believe.

    As for the Timothy, incapability of introspection and denial references (insults), I find these comments unhelpful. What is to stop me from claiming the same about you other than your claim that your interpretation of the Bible is better than mine?

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "both of us feel justified by this because of our faith"

    Rusty I am justified by His Word not by a 'feeling of faith'.

    "I am not running from pain. Certainly I had a rough time dealing with my sexuality as a child and young adult, but that is in the past."

    If so past, why express it in the very real present here in this forum as somehow a justification for you or to back up your argument.

    It is too hard to be in denial...especially when you deny the Christian Scriptures and practise denial so much.

    I don't believe you are capable of true intropection and I believe you to be intellectually lazy by believing articles on the internet and heretical teachers.

    Surley, you are an example of:

    "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
    and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."
    2 Timothy 4:34.

    Very sorry to see you go that way.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Gosh, I'm disappointed to get a web address for a biblical answer, Rusty.

    Dude, you got to KNOW what it is you believe if you are to consider yourself a Christian.

    Are you a Christian because you were born in America?

    You can't ride on the coat tails of American Christianity or adhere to someone's opinion (Bill Loader) about what makes you a Christian. You cannot slap a label over your breast and declare alliegence and not know why.

    Christianity is Submission to Christ alone!

    This isn't a theoretical debate on the issues where one can 'agree to disagree'!

    Man, your Eternal Soul hangs in the balance of what you believe and what you will not submit to God.

    This is no intellectual excercise here, this is real life...and eternal death. I'm very sorry for your complacency, it will be the end of you.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The reason why you should think about inces is because they are no different then homosexuals. They just want the right to marry who they want to marry.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rusty,
    The ol' head-in-the-sand trick. Well, you're gonna have to think about it sometime. It's right around the corner.
    But maybe you're "I don't want to think about it..." reply could be that if you do, you will realize how off your views of homosexuality are.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,

    This is my last response to incest:

    I have never thought about it in any detail and to be honest I dont want to. I can think of no reason why I could possibly want to research it other than your constant badgering about the topic. Please, I dont understand your obsession with incest. If you really want to talk about it, then maybe one of the other members of this forum will be interested, but I am not.


    Believer and DelightntheLord

    Regarding my justification for same sex relationships, I know this is cheating, but the article below closely aligns with my views.

    http://wwwstaff.murdoch.edu.au/~loader/homosexuality.html

    And no, I dont belong to the Metropolitan Church or a church that teaches that Paul or others were gay. I am familiar with the teaching, but it is not something that I subscribe to.

    I think that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Obviously you and I are not willing to change our positions, and both of us feel justified by this because of our faith.

    For the record though, when I told my family and friends that I was gay, there was initial shock and disappointment, but everyone, except for a few people from my old church, accepted my decision (not necessarily agreed with, but accepted) and I have very meaningful and happy relationships with them now. I am not running from pain. Certainly I had a rough time dealing with my sexuality as a child and young adult, but that is in the past. You are going to have to find another theory to try to explain my behaviour, because your current one is wrong (though I am sure your theory fits into your viewpoint of the world).

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    What's creepy?

    Men with men?

    Woman with woman?

    Children with adults?

    Animals with people?

    Life without God?

    Mormons, not so creepy; just strange. You know they truly are the "latter-day-saints", they will have to endure God's wrath here on earth but I'll betcha many will turn to the real Christ once the Church is Raptured.

    But the idea of 'raptured' might be a little creepy to mburrell.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "face it: mormons are creepy"

    In all fairness, there are many creepy people from all walks of life. I'm sure there is at least one person on this planet that thinks you are creepy! I know there are a few in my little corner who think I am! Imagine that....

    Still, I think the Shriners come off as being a bit on the creepy side yet they do a thing or two for children. There are many Mormons who don't view their religion as being that much different from being Baptist or Presbyterian.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    face it: mormons are creepy. they are creepy in their church life. they are creepy in their stand against marriage.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Well, Believer, I have to concur on Feet missing it on verse 23 of chap 5 in Galations.

    I think he has a bigger problem with the "crucify" part of verse 24;

    "Now those who BELONG to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires."

    He tragically doesn't not belong to Christ no matter how much Scripture he cuts and pastes or how often he refers to the "spirit" of things or even the christ-in-me prattle he uses.

    I fear he is one that has been given over by God to believe a lie.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Daniel Paul

    Amen. One does not study every counterfit 20 dollar bill. One simply studies the original design, and anything else is automatically a forgery.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    forgiven, the fancy word for that is plenary, that wise Pastor taught me that word so I figured I'd show it off!!

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Good afternoon, believer,
    You know that wise pastor...he also said that all scripture must be in harmony with the whole.

    Child-like, Amen.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Delight, I agree and would add that ALL the fruits of the Spirit are meant to be in agreement with God's natural design and will for His creation.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "The Bible (Gods word) doesnt contain a full record of the history of marriage"

    Sure it does. My God is not schizoid or double-minded. He defined marriage as being between one man and one woman. He created one man and one woman. His design requires both a man and a woman for procreation.

    What the Bible does not contain is a full record of how man has twisted and messed up the concept of marriage to fit the lusts of man.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Delight, I read your post to rusty about the fruit of the Holy Spirit and concur completely, but isn't it interesting that feet wants to ignore the fruit of self-control when he posts on this matter?

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    forgiven, how true about us having to be taught how to misread the Bible and if we think about it didn't Christ say that all we need is simple childlike faith to become a child of God and with that being true would that same concept not be true with the understanding of His Word.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I've been searching the posts diligently for some Scriptural justification for Rusty and I see further down that he ,too uses the same old saw as Feet does; the fruits of the Spirit.

    Rusty has mentioned Galations 5:22 but hasn't considered either Galations 5:23 and 24.

    God's Word is not a buffet...you cannot say, "well, I feel that I have 'love' and 'joy' and 'kindness' and 'goodness' and 'gentleness and I'm very "longsuffering" here on this board defending my homosexual love to these 'homophobic' Christains."

    No, it is exactly verses 23 and especially 24 where those Fruits become anchored. It is by crucifying the flesh and it's passions and by having self control that one can even consider themselves as having the Fruit of the Spirit.

    All the fruit mentioned in Galations 5:22 can be subjective unless 23 and 24 are obeyed.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:58 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks, Forgiven for that. I think I like to poke a stick at posters who dogmatically assert their right to God's Kingdom without the necessary submission to God as is required.

    I think about Jesus' response to the Pharisees saying they are but white washed tombs and dead mans bones and I think I feel the same way as He did although granted the Pharisees were on the flip side of the coin; legalism versus liberalism.

    We are called to love and poking a stick doesn't feel like love. But sometimes the stick hits a soft spot and gets attention from the hearer (the pokee?). That is my motivation, that something said here on this forum may get some of these staunch pro-homosexual advocates to rethink their positions and to expose the lie that a person can have homosexual sex without incurring the wrath of God.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Deight,
    You're a good man.

    I hear you. I read in an article once that someone has to be taught to misunderstand the Bible. Which goes along with Paul's warning that men will no longer adhere to sound doctrine and accumulate teachers for themselves. It's disheartening.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You know, I think I need to apologize to Rusty for my attitude of last night. I think I just get very tired of seeing all this justification for 'gay' Christians to hold onto something God has determined not only to be a practise that is not in the best interests of His children but also a sin that is more than just a little distasteful to Him. I can't wrap my mind around someone who wants to hold on to sin and yet feel that they are devoted Christians.

    I know it must be a terrible burden to fight same sex attraction and I understand how it is in the human condition to find way to allieviate the pain felt by seeking approval somewhere and end up at a church like the Metropolitan where they teach that David and Jonathan had homosexual relations and that Paul himself was probably gay. I think that is what makes me angry...not necessarily the people who are posting here.

    It seems Rusty, that you hold onto the pain of being osterasized by your small, rural community and by your parents religiosity and you are nursing that pain, making the struggle worse. Homosexuality is not your identity, you are human first. If you are a Christian then that should be the second identifying factor. I think the struggle is intensified when we see our sexuality as being a primary factor for who we are.

    This lifetime is only a vapor of time, it is not the end of our story and our love for God and His Word should give us enough power to crucify our passion and desires (Gal 5:24) for this short time, rather than spend all this time going about and seeking justification for sinful behavior on this temporal plane. God is eternal and He says we are too. I want to spend eternity in righteousness with Him and want Rusty too as well. Clear reading of Scripture indicates that Rusty will not dwell with God because of His lack of belief and trust in God alone. I think that is very tragic that the enemy of our souls has won another one for his domain.

  • Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:17 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rusty,
    Then let me ask you again...

    So, you believe that incest relationships among adults is ok?

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