An advertising watchdog has banned a newspaper ad – run by a Belfast, Ireland, church – condemning homosexuality. The Advertising Standards Authority ruled that the ad was offensive and indecent.
Sandown Free Presbyterian Church ran a full page ad entitled “The Word of God against Sodomy” in the Belfast Newsletter to coincide with Belfast’s Gay Pride parade.
The ad states that homosexuality is an “abomination” and warns of “God’s judgment upon a sin.” It also says that it is “a cause for regret that a section of the community desire[s] to be known for a perverted form of sexuality.”
The church said it had been “obliged under God to publicly challenge the vices of this generation.”
The Belfast Newsletter said that not publishing the ad would have been an “infringement of freedom of expression on a matter of public interest.”
The Advertising Standards Authority upheld complaints from seven members of the public who felt the ad was homophobic, ruling that it had “caused serious offense to some readers.”
The ASA determined that the ad went “further than the majority of readers were likely to find acceptable,” although the Rev. David McIlveen of Sandown church said there was no evidence of this.
It also rejected some complaints that the ad would incite hatred and violence against the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community.
"The ad did not in itself incorporate language likely to incite a violent emotional response," the ASA ruled. But it went further to say the ad should not appear again in its current form.
McIlveen said ASA’s ruling on this point was “a vindication of the true spirit in which the statement was formulated.”
“However, we believe that the part of the adjudication in which the ASA upheld the complainants position shows a basic and fundamental ignorance of the teaching and application of God's Word on the subject of sodomy,” he continued.
“By adjudicating on what is in effect the message of the bible on the code of decency is, in our opinion, the setting of a very dangerous precedent.”
He also rejected ASA’s ruling that the ad was indecent.
“Many thousands of people throughout the UK are in possession of scriptures that declare sodomy as an abomination, a perversion of sexuality and a sin before God.
“Therefore by determining that quotations of bible texts and their application have breached CAP Code clause 5.1 (Decency), the ASA is taking the view that the printing and publishing of certain biblical texts is indecent.”
He continued: “This is an offense to every bible believer. It is ironic that an authority that seeks to prevent others from being offended appears to have no scruples in offending those who hold to the plain teaching of the word of God.”
McIlveen said it would not heed ASA’s recommendation that it seek advice from its copy team before publishing material in the future.
“We see as an unwarranted interference into church affairs. It is totally unacceptable for any church to look to an outside body for their approval to print gospel tracts that are based on the word of God. This we cannot and will not do.”
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To Prophet, msg dated 7Dec08, having been married to a Christian wife, who became bi-, who raised my son as a gay, having worked in the Dept of Health, AIDS/HIV
Prophet to Mike, msg dated 7Dec08, update: all sin enslaves, removes God's blessing and protection, see Deu 28 for the Blessins & Curses of God, gives Satan a legal reason to send demons to oppress and possess, brings disease and hardships such as Job endured, demoralizes, kills physically and spiritually then condemns one eternally to the Lake of Fire. Atheists have no basis in fact to support their claim there is not God, it is all based on a priori assumptions and feelings, which are not provable. Christianity or Messanic Judiasm are provable in a historical and prophectical sense.
Here is my comment: All who are condoning a sin is also a partaker of said sin therefor shall be held accountable to the price that sin will cost you. Either her in this pitiful life or the next - Fact is fact - it changes not based on a poll taken by man or by the mass opinion. I can only hope that church made fryers and pasted them all over their town regardless of the news paper rejecting their ad.
Gr8, historically, paul wouldn't have encountered that much homosexuality in terms of couples, however, there is documentation about pagan orgies that Paul was referring to.
I am rereading this scripture in Romans andthere is no rape mentioned at all, Mike, maybe you are missing something, verse 27 of chapter 1 of Romans "Likewise also the men, leaving the" natural" us of the woman burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful," this is describing mutual conscent by the terminology "burned in their lust, men with men" and then saying the act which was engaged was "shameful". This is what Paul saying from his studies of the Torah (Old Testament).
No, I don't believe he does. He certainly would have used better language for such.
There was probably temple prostitution in ancient Roman society, Mike, However Paul didn't speak about prostitution but thw whole act of homosexuality, which was mutual or forced rape. Romans show both acts of it was a sin.
John, the historical context of that is Paul's witness to temple prostitution. The language he used in the original text (and this is coming down from biblical scholars I have spoken with, I don't even know where I'd begin!) is an us and them when writing about Christians and Pagans, and Paul speaks using the "them" language, referring to pagans having such practices. He warns against going to such extreme lengths to try and worship a false God. Historically, there were male temple prostitutes who would have a sex change so men could worship them (hence, the unseemly part.) Paul was very traveled and it would seem he had better language to describe homosexuality if that was his ultimate goal.
Ro 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
I am curious how this can be twisted into not saying that homosexual activity is a sin.
Gr8, sodom was about rape. That verse is talking about Pagan ritual worship (men left the use of women and had sex with male priests, some of whom historically would have a sex change to be more like a woman for worship purposes.)
Romans 1:26, For this reason <God gave them up to vile passions. For eventheir women exchanged the "natural use" for what is" unnatural". Verse 27, "Likewise also the men , leaving the natural use of the woman burned in their own lust, men for men , committing what is shameful", doesnt sound like rape, Mike but mutual interaction of an unnatural sort. It is defined in the last verse as unnatural ,Mike.
The words "strange flesh" doesn't tell you that something was abnormal pertaining to what the inhabitants were doing Mike?
Gr8, and it is my belief that the sexual immorality was lust and rape, not a loving relationship. If you went into a gay club I would be the first one to point out that there is plenty of sin going on, but its EXACTLY the same at a straight club.
To make it more evident Mike, the book of Jude confirms this action of God destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, with the Verse7 of the first chapter, "As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them in a similiar manner to these , having given themselves to sexual immorality, and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." this confirms what Leviticus from the Old Test. and Romans in the New Test. say about Gods displeasure concerning this matter.
The Bible also confirms a certain type of judgement upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, which was an act of judgement, meant to prove what God totally opposed with that type of inhuman action, and after the judgement, which was in Genesis, and God put this in his revealed law which was exposed through Moses after the Exodus through the formation of the Jewish nation.
If you read the Bible as it is written then yes, it would seem so. If you study the Bible in terms of its historical context, there is a very different picture painted.
Mike, the one verse from Leviticus (the Old Testament) and Romans(the New Testament) confirms Gods opposition to this sin from beginning to ending, thats all.
OK...so then why do you use that one verse against me if I am not a ceremonial priest?
Yes, Mike, I do shave from time to time, however the Levitical laws were priestly ceremonial laws for the levite priest.
So then you never wear clothing of more than one fabric? You do not trim your sideburns or shave your beard?
Mike, these were only two verses which show Gods oppositions to this sin but also taught the believer what the purpose of their true nature was.
Mike, yes, I truly believe in what the Lord revealed in Lev. and the book of Romans and practice it.
Gr8, so then you follow each and every law of Lev?
It is as clear as clear as day that when God reveal himself through his word that he was totally against the practice of sin and his law showed this Leviticus 18 chapter speaks about " mankind should not lie with mankind like with womankind" and in the New Testament, Paul come backs in Romans the first chapter 17-27 explaining how God's wrath was against the ungodliness of men(especially the unnatural use of men toward men and women toward women).
Prophet, I asked a question, why didnt you answer?
its apparent the homosexuals serve a god they have created in their image.
Hi Prophet, how'd that speech go?
maybe not treated, but definitely can be delivered from it. unless, of course, yoiu don't think God is big enough. and if he's not, then its obvious that we don't serve the same God. because my God is bigger than anything.
maybe not treated, but definitely can be delivered from it. unless, of course, yoiu don't think God is big enough.
Forgiven, unfortunately yes. NARTH ignores science and feels that homosexuality is something that can be "treated."
Mike22685,
Hope all is well. jh and I have been conversing over at the other post. There is some question to whether Paul refers to idolatry twice in essence repeating himself. Logically, I can not see Paul repeating himself. Paul seems to speak to idoltry practices first and then refers to same-sex sexual relations in the next.
I have another question though, this NARTH group, you wrote: "Medical research shows that it is unhealthy to try and force change on people, and even groups like NARTH have found astronomically high rates of failure in their attempts to "change" a person's sexual orientation. They can certainly guilt them into celibacy by misquoting the Bible and cutting them off from everyone who they think might be a bad influence on their "conversion" but the practice is condemned by every medical association in the country." is this their method? I mean does this group exist soley to "change" a person somewhat like a rehab type setting?
DP, Paul does not mention homosexuality as a sin, he mentions idolatry as a sin. Have you seen JH's posts under the opinion<misconceptions in homosexuality posting? He's quite brilliant with his theological studies and you might find them interesting. Medical research shows that it is unhealthy to try and force change on people, and even groups like NARTH have found astronomically high rates of failure in their attempts to "change" a person's sexual orientation. They can certainly guilt them into celibacy by misquoting the Bible and cutting them off from everyone who they think might be a bad influence on their "conversion" but the practice is condemned by every medical association in the country. That speaks pretty loudly to me that not all gays can change, and I don't find any Biblical evidence that says we should. If you do not truly study the Bible with an open heart, as JH explains he did, then its very easy to find verses you think condemn homosexuality, but in reality they simply indulge your prejudice.
"Including studies from groups like Exodus? They are biased, right?"
Mike, God set everything up on a faith basis. You either believe or you don't. It is by design that everything is bias.
Bias--"a particular tendency or inclination, esp. one that prevents unprejudiced consideration of a question; prejudice."
The question comes in if God has a bias. From what I've read God says He is truth. Therefore, truth is not based on "unprejudiced consideration" but rather how God considers something based on Himself.
That which is true is bias towards God. That which is not true is bias away from God (towards sin). Paul in Romans 7 says sin is defined by the law. He would not have known he was a sinner exept for the law. Therefore the law was useful to show him he was a sinner. One of the sins mentioned in the law is homosexuality. Pauls hangup was coveting. Yours is homosexuality. Paul saw he was a sinner because of the law. The law applies this way for you as well.
America needs a 'Jeremiah'
Jeremiah 6:10
To whom can I speak and give warning? Who will listen to me? Their ears are closed so they cannot hear. The word of the LORD is offensive to them; they find no pleasure in it.
mike,
im sorry. i didnt mean that you had to shut up. i like listening to you. i'm not a smart man, but you make me sound like one.
mike,
as are all the sources you quote from.
Including studies from groups like Exodus? They are biased, right?
"You need to investigate psychology to better understand sexual orientation and sexual addiction."
My dad was a college professor who taught human sexuality so I do have some idea of the different schools of thought on the subject. Most of the ones you are refering to start with the premise that gay is OK and work their theory to prove it.
As I have said many times...give me a subject and the bias you want the news story to show and I can get you the data and experts to 'prove the point'.
wow mike. i'm impressed. can i be your friend?
...yes, there are two very different things. You need to investigate psychology to better understand sexual orientation and sexual addiction. They really have no comparison other than they both have the word "sexual" in them.
On that note, I am taking my leave from here. I've got some major studying to do for an upcoming preaching engagement.
No there's not two different things. It's called genetic disposition. It affects all sorts of behavior
You are comparing an addiction to a sexual orientation, which are 2 very different things. There is no comparison.
Okay, okay, Mike. We know. God loves sin. And wants us to remain in it.
I've tried for 25 years to overcome sexual addictions. I'm glad I didn't stop there. I guess some people want to attain the image of Christ, and are willing to pay the price, more than others. To whom much is given, much is required. It all depends on how far you want to go in God. I choose to go further.
Oh I have tried before, so don't call me lazy. Nothing happened, no matter how hard I tried, so perhaps God does not need or want me to change. You DO NOT know God's will for me, no matter how highly you think of yourself.
And even though neither are lifestyles, both are sins. And thoses who willfully and unrepentantly continue in that sin will not inherit the Kingdom of God. I serve a God who can deliver us from our sins. He gives us power to overcome. Those who refuse to, are merely lazy.
You're right prophet, being a sex addict is not a lifestyle. It doesn't mean sex addicts or gays do not exist, but neither are a lifestyle.
Prophet, I wouldn't make a judgment call on that. I think protests are protests, and they serve a very specific purpose. If someone puts that sign up on their property, I think it is very different than putting it up in front of a church, which is not their property, and they are therefore intruding. Were Christian Post to publish the ad that was run in that newspaper, it would clearly have a different result. The church did it to be controversial, and that happened, but I'm sure the church did it with full knowledge of what would happen.
"There is no "gay lifestyle.."
And there is no sexual addiction lifestyle.
Mike,
I'm referencing the article here on CP talking about atheists putting a sign up on a public nativity scene saying that religion enslaves people.
There is no "gay lifestyle: and no, we're not trying to force anything on anyone. We will not, however, stand for blatant lies and hatred spread by religious folks who claim they love us. If anything, you are forcing your ways on us.
Phileo- Okay I feel you now, and I totally agree with your response. I think that we as Christians go with a lot of zeal but now undertanding when we try to win over souls. I know that the issue of perversion whether it be homosexuality or any other sin that we can't single it out. Unfortunnatley homosexuals are trying force thier life style on every one else and it just happens to be the fore front of our fight against principalities of this world. Everyone claiming to be Christian isn't becuase they want God to accept thier way and not His.
Please tell me what exactly you are referencing Proph
Mike
"This is ridiculous! This does not have to do with free speech, it has to do with using a very public newspaper for the explicit purpose of stirring controversy."
But it's okay for atheist to publicly post hate messages against Christianity?
here's an interesting slide show. i wish WE could get over some issues the way these Mexicans have.
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/12/07/weekinreview/1207-MUXE_index.html
believer: yes. how sad. parents are responsible for their children. not school. not government. not church.
smbga, the problem isn't that prayer got taken out of the schools, but that prayer never made it home!
Mike: there are territorial spirits that control specific areas in the world. Could it be that the area you spoke of (ghetto) could be under the control of one?
Mike: Oppression comes from being 'pressed down' in your mind. It comes from satan. he knows that if he can oppress a person's mind, they will not get to their destiny. oppression is a horrible thing. oppression comes in different degrees. I firmly believe that all believers have come under this kind of spiritual attack on their mind. But to overcome it, we must first know what God's Word says about it. Then speak His Word. satan hates The Word of God.
SMBGA, I think of oppression as a group of people being held down by those with more power than them. The area I teach in was designed to be a ghetto in the 1920s and has never risen out of that status. Christians are not being oppressed just because their views are met with controversy (at least I don't think so.)
Mike22685, although I believe we should all be very careful not to cross boundaries of common decency, I agree with what you wrote.
Mike: what is your meaning of 'oppressed?'
Mike: christians are oppressed, because they have brought it on themselves. And yes I cry when I see areas that are in poverty. I am talking 'real poverty'. And that's an area that the church has failed in. There isn't compassion on the people that are poor and needy. Lord only knows what I would do with money. The poor wouldn't be poor any more.
Forgiven, I think crossing boundaries can be a good thing, however, you can't cross them then cry foul when you get slapped on the wrist for it. This church did exactly what it hoped for. Essentially, they staged a protest through a print ad. At protests, people get arrested for blocking traffic or pedestrian walkways, but their point is made. This church made their point, then their ad was pulled.
Mike22685 wrote; "Free speech is alive and well, but there are certain boundaries that you cannot cross and you know full well what will happen if you do. I have no doubt this church was looking for a little controversy, and they found it!"
I have to agree with you on this. I do not know what this church group was thinking. We all definately need to be careful not to cross boundaries.
This is ridiculous! This does not have to do with free speech, it has to do with using a very public newspaper for the explicit purpose of stirring controversy. If a group believed interracial couples were an abomination, should they have the right to post an ad? Should Fred Phelps, owner of the website "godhatesfags.com" be allowed to post his hateful ads? Free speech is alive and well, but there are certain boundaries that you cannot cross and you know full well what will happen if you do. I have no doubt this church was looking for a little controversy, and they found it!
Christians are not the most oppressed group in this country. To think that is to be completely ignorant of other people's life experiences. You want to see an oppressed group, get in your car and drive to Cherry Hill in Baltimore. The poverty will make you cry.
believer, morning.
I am quite sure the thumbs down was for the sign and not me, as it should be.
in the days to come........more and more will be offended at God's Word. (holy living) I hear many say that as long as we are forgiven, we can pretty much live the way we want. WRONG
and in the days to come, homosexuality is going to be ok. I predict that. There are many more in the ministry that just haven't come out with it yet. But they will. how long was sodom and gomorrha the gay place before fire burned them up? I would say for a while. Isn't it ironic that it was destroyed when they (homos) tried to force themselves on God's people?
prophet: yes, christians are very oppressed.
and the majority of these same children, were in trouble with the law before high school. some are even in prison for murder, grand theft, etc.....
I hear so many people say that the proble with today's youth is that prayer was taken out of school. And I used to think so myself. But the truth is that the problem started in the home. What the child is brought up in, is what makes the child. I know that there are exceptions to that. But when my sons were in elementary, they would come home and tell me what the others were saying and drawing. It was filth. They got it from tv and mom and dad.
smbga, your posts on religion are so true it's too bad that non-believers can't see or will not see that Christianity is not about religion but about a loving, growing relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
Forgiven, I can't believe you got a thumbs down for telling what the poster said!
'religion' is man made lies. But when you have the Spirit of God living in you, you will want to do what is right. Yes, there will always be the flesh to contend with.
religion does harden hearts and enslaves minds. Jesus said that Himself. I was brought up in a 'christian' home and was told more 'you can't do this' than I was anything else. I wasn't allowed to go swimming with boys, I couldn't go here and I couldn't go there. So I had to sneak around and go to the movies. At the age of 15 I went to a drive in and cried in the back floor of the car because I thought God was going to kill me. Sad, huh?
The sign in it's entirety...
The is no god, no devil, no angels, nor heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.
You want to know what's really funny? That Christians truly are the most oppressed group of people in this country. This ad was banned for being "anti-gay". But yet (if you check out the article on the atheist sign at the nativity scene), atheists put a sign up saying ""There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds." That is just libel. Why isn't the government banning that sign as a hate message? Because the government, and media, are ultraliberal, and anti Christian.
I don't want the homosexuals to complain about being so mistreated. It makes them look like fools when they do.
"outrageous censorship"
Now, now... it's only censorship if it's conservatives saying it's wrong.... In this case it's the civil rights of Christians being violated in fear of offending the gay community.
When are the radical left-wingers going to fight this outrageous censorship?
Hey, mally
You had mentioned over at another post that we should let others make their own choices. I believe, as unfortunate as it is, that your concerns here are exactly because of this ~ choices, perhaps ours as well as others. We find the further away from God's standard the closer we are to the consequences of those choices. God Bless you as you continue to bring your child(ren) up in the Lord.
I find most everything I see on news stands and on television these days, to be highly offensive. Especially when my 3 year old daughter asks me about what she sees! Pornography, violence and devastating news is all around us on billboards, front-page news, t.v. and even getting into most kids movies! I can't remember the last time there was a movie rated anything less than PG. I will not subject my children to the modern-day, vulgar displays of 'normalcy' we see everywhere. I just can't understand how seeing a bunch of homosexuals in a parade, isn't offensive to a young family with children...but a newspaper ad, with somebody's moral beliefs, is? Sometimes I fear for my children's future!
truth01 - the verse I was referring to was 1 Cor 5:12, where Paul tells us not to judge those outside the church. I think we were talking about condemning the sin of those that don't already know the truth of God in their heart. So really we are not talking about the preaching of God's word, but of judging those outside the church. Jesus also says a similar thing in Matthew 7:6 when he says not to cast your pearls to swine.
Jesus distinguishes between those that are receptive to the Word, and those that reject it. Jesus sent out the apostles to go into towns and preach the Word. But he also instructed them that if they were rejected in a town to simply shake the dust off of their sandles and move on.
I think the same thing applies to our lives. Preach the Word to all people, but when the people you are preaching to reject it, or even attack you for it then it's time to move on. We've done our job, as commanded by God. It's up to others to either accept or reject it.
And again, if we start preaching to OUTSIDERS and condemn them for their sins individually or collectively, without offering them a chance to accept the free gift of salvation we are in essence not explaining the Gospel to them correctly. They should want what we have. But if they don't know that they should want what we have then we simply have to either explain it to them in a way that they understand and then they can make a decision for or against Christ.
I've probably complicated it, but simply put - we have to distinguish between preaching and judging.
mb--it wasn't me!
Hey Phileo,
I am confused on what you said about not preaching the Word to "outsiders"? Where does Paul say that in scripture? Hey everybody, have we forgotten "The Great Commison" that Jesus employed us to do? Matthew 28:18-20 gives us the authority to preach salvation and teach those that we bring to Jesus His ways and obeying them. Those that reject Jesus Chirst made a choice not to be saved. But they still heard the Word preached to them including what is sinful and what is right. So I am not understanding anyone who calls sinners "outsiders" because Jesus Christ died for everybody. Take this as food for thought; God sent Paul to the Gentiles who were considered lost. He never called them "outsiders". Jesus told Peter that He would make him fisher's of men when he launched out into the deep. I am not defending anyone who choses to deny God, I am getting everyone to remember that there are still those who are looking for our light and the salvation that Christ gave them. Selah.
An individual who would find scripture from the Bible as offensive would also find God offensive. For the Bible says that He and His Word are one in the same.
John 1, verse 1 says "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.".
Therefore, logically, if you are offended by what the Bible says, then you are offended by God Himself.
Jesus put it like this: For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the Holy Angels.
Would it not be acceptable to replace the word "ashamed" with "offended"?
One could, and the results would be the same. If you are offended by what God says in His Word, you will therefore be offended by Him, for He is saying the same thing His words does. He never changes, and is the same forever.
Beloved, if you are struggling with homosexuality, just know that God loves you very, very much. However, He who created life, gave life a way to perpetuate itself until His return. This is not possible with homosexuality. It's fruit is death. Yes, lesbians have babies, but not without the help of a donation from a clinic that houses the donations of human males, or a human male himself. Either way, without the opposite creation that God has created, no life can perpetuate. Logically, and spiritually, only death would follow. You can know the situation by the fruit it produces.
Is it too late? No, just ask the murderers, the fornicators, the idolators, the blasphemers, etc. These too can be forgiven of their sin, and these too have the same access to The Throne, through Jesus Christ. Jesus said, confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart that He is Lord, you shall be saved. But it doesn't stop there, He also said to each of the disciples upon meeting them "Follow Me". And if we are to follow Him, it can only be done by his guidelines, not ours.
mb, don't know about Thailand but I know if a person becomes a Christian in many muslim countries it will cost them and I believe similar things happen in India among the hindus, plus making one's views known is much different than forcing one to comply with those views.
"if you lived in Thailand, they would not make you observe all Buddhist law. "
Actually, a friend of mine is a Field Director for missions work and based in Bangkok. Umm...no. You are misinformed.
"but other people can NOT be required to live by the rules of a book they do not believe."
So, if I don't believe in the book called the US Code of Laws then I can't be held accountable to it? What you do or don't believe isn't the foundation of truth. What God believes is the foundation of truth. I'm just glad he was kind enough to write it down in the Bible! I'd really be up the creek otherwise.
but other people can NOT be required to live by the rules of a book they do not believe. ridiculous. if you lived in Thailand, they would not make you observe all Buddhist law.
"Sounds pretty offensive to me, especially when its directed at an entire segment of the population"
I would definately agree. It is quite offensive to force an entire segment of the population to give up their freedom to believe the Bible as written and be forced to accept what 1-3% of the population want. This is quite intolerant of the pro-gay agenda Bibleophobes.
Whatever you think, you will not be able to change God's Word and will one day have to pay the price for not believing what God has written.
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Romans 1:22-27
V22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, V23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
V24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
V25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, Who is blessed for ever. Amen.
V26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
V27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
SAY THIS PRAYER: Dear Jesus, I am a sinner and am headed to eternal hell because of my sins. I believe you died on the cross to take away my sins and to take me to heaven. Jesus, I ask you now to come into my heart and take away my sins and give me eternal life. http://www.armyofgod.com
phileo, I saw a video of a homosexual pride parade and there were some pretty kinky things going on with some of the participants in the parade and the saddest thing was that there were a number of toddlers present who were being exposed to that, so I'm not sure a "Christian" presence in the parade would have much of an impact or if it would not lead some to believe that God condones those types of behaviors displayed by others in the parade.
Seems to be a pretty good debate here, and some good posts to make me think more on this issue.
To clarify, if someone came into my church and lived a lifestyle that was contrary to what scripture teaches I am called to hold them accountable. I am also called on to preach the truth in love. But bashing someone over the head in public with a bible simply turns people away from the Gospel. I truly believe that you need to be winsome with folks outside the church who are not aware that they are sinning. Sure, I have run across "gay Christians" who think that there is nothing wrong with their "lifestyle" and continue to go to church and seek God, but refuse to deny their homosexual choices. These sorts of folks I speak very sternly to. Unfortunately these folks only see God's grace and skip the part about repenting. Not much you can do with these folks except to explain the truth to them in love. If they refuse to admit their sin then we should certainly cast them out.
However, in the example here I would have a hard time believing a gay pride parade would be filled with anyone who claims to represent the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Make no mistake, I won't hesitate to confront a sinning Christian, but trying to confront those outside the church goes directly against what Jesus did or taught. Remember he said to "Give too Caesar what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's."
"Sounds pretty offensive to me, especially when its directed at an entire segment of the population"
Wow, AN ENTIRE SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION?
Indoctrinated soul, Minn; there is only about 1-3% homosexuals in this 'offended' segment.
There is such a higher percent of Christians who are very offended that their rights to free speech is eroding day by day!
The truth is we judge the sin and not the sinner. One who is a Christian looks at the sin others may be pointing out. A sinner simply says "that's not sin" when the Bible clearly says it is.
So if a non-Christian comes into my church, we can't speak against sin, because we would be judging them?
"Paul tells us not to judge OUTSIDERS."
Here's the problem. The gay folks here do not believe they are outsiders. They have come into this CHRISTIAN Post site and claimed to be of Christ. They have come inside. We will continue to present the truth of the Gospel which says to turn away from sin (which was defined in the law) and live for Christ. Homosexuality has not become a 'non-sin'. It is still sin. Those who are of Christ forsake sin and turn away from it. Period.
Phileo, It seems that you are suggesting that Christians should not call sinners "sinners"! It is that milk-toast sort of approach that robs power from the Army of God. I'll take my orders (Commission) from Jesus, who commanded me to "Make disciples of all nations..." Unless a person is told that he/she is a sinner, they will not know of God's expectations. The Word of God is very clear that people will not know "...unless they hear..." for salvation comes by hearing the Word of God! Will sinners enjoy hearing that their behavior is sinful? Did you? That's why we are told to curcify ourselves daily! It is a lifestyle of godly discipline (Discipleship) that will not permit even one evil thought to go without confession. 'Be holy as Your Father in heaven is holy!" Stop dancing around the issue of calling a spade a spade. DIG IN with all of your godly compassion for sinners. Call out sin for what it is...separation from holy God.
Phileo --"You can't cut and paste a response"
If you are cutting and pasting out of MS Word some of the symbols like " ' and ... are in a code form which doesn't translate to web. You may want to try 'save for web' before you copy and paste. I haven't tried it yet but HTML is different encoding than MS Word.
Hey, Minneapolitian ... where ya been? Got frozen over?
"Professing that your "god" dislikes gay people making love to each other will be considered hate speech"
Truth be know the Bible says God hates sin. So, does that mean that God doesn't have the right to hate sin because it is 'hate speech'? This is clear evidence that the pro-gay agenda camp is trying to end the right to freedom of religion. They are trying to take away our civil rights as believers in Jesus and calling such beliefs 'hate speech' while they go on with their hate speech against Christians.
Phileo,
Do you have a notepad or wordpad option? It seems to work better for cutting and pasting.
artm wrote: "And I am a " Christian ". The word means to be a " Follower of Jesus Christ," That's what I am, A follower of Jesus Christ."
I'm with artm ~ I am "Christian", a follower of Jesus Christ and the Savior of my soul!
I swear this website sucks. You can't cut and paste a response, which is why my last response got cut off.
I was trying to say that in that passage of scripture Paul tells us not to judge OUTSIDERS. Let the Holy Spirit bring them to Christ and then convict them of their sin. But telling them they are sinning PRIOR to them coming to Christ goes against what the Gospel preaches.
God does not hate homosexuals, In fact He loves them very much, That is why he tells them that Homosexuality is sin, and will cause their soul to be lost.
And I must also say that, God in no way will force anyone to give up their sinful lifestyle, If homosexuals and lesbians desire to continue in that vein, God will allow it,
But understand also, That when you stand before the Holy God, you will have to face the penality for that sin, which is eternity separated from God, to a place called hell.
That is not hate speech, that is love, a caring for your soul, It is also Truth, Please take heed.
And I am a " Christian ". The word means to be a " Follower of Jesus Christ," That's what I am, A follower of Jesus Christ.
smbga and others. The one thing that is being missed here is that we are discussing a public advertisement condemining sin OUTSIDE of the church. Paul speaks to this in 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 when he says, "It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your job to judge those inside the church who are sinning in these ways. God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”
Paul's point (and mine) is that this message from the church is condemning those who are OUTSIDE of the church. As Paul states, that's not our place to judge them. We are to discipline WITHIN the church, but as for outsiders, we have to try and reach them through the Holy Spirit for the Gospel. But condemning them before they've had a chance to come to Christ goes completely against what the Gospel says.
smbga,
It would appear that the first believers were named Christians because they were disciples being taught Jesus.
Acts 11:25 & 26 And he (Barnabas) left for Tarsus to look for for Saul; and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. And it came about that for an entire year they met with the church, and taught considerable numbers; and the disciples were forst called "Christians" in Antioch.
thomasofdoubt: take my name out of the bucket. i found out how the first believers got called 'christians.' I no longer call myself a 'christian'. I found out that I am an ambassador to God's Kingdom. I represent my Heavenly Father.
thomas, if you read the accounts of Peter and Stephen's messages they were rather in your face to the point Stephen stoned to death for what he preached. People don't like their sins exposed and being told they need to repent from those sins and turn to God, but Christ's first message was to tell the people of their need to repent.
Complaints from seven members of the public caused the ad to be withdrawn? When can you run any article without 7 or more people complaining? Perhaps seven or more Christians should protest the Gay Pride parade as being offensive.
Why do a certain segment of the people who call themselves "Christians" insist on always advertising their own hatred rather than the love of God?
"Have you heard the bad news? You're a filthy sinner who should be shunned by society!" That's not really how the Twelve and those who came after went about their evangelism, now is it?
I didn't say whether I agreed or disagreed with the actual banning, all I stated is that hate speech will be banned. Professing that your "god" dislikes gay people making love to each other will be considered hate speech in the not so distant future (if not already). What I think personally about it is irrelevant, I was simply stating the facts.
Question: Why is that in your country Gays-Lesbians-Bisexuals-Transgender can say whatever they want to whomever they want -but cannot take any critism and objection to their lifestyle?
A reply to Phileo. You mentioned that Jesus preached love and then people turned from their sins. Actually, many times Jesus directly confronted the sin. For instance, the woman at the well, although Jesus was compassionate, he directly confronted her sin which was the reason she turned to Him. Think of the Pharisees, "You brood of vipers!" is direct confrontation of their sin of apostasy. The Bible IS offensive. But, you are correct in saying that the message of becoming right before God through repentance of sin has to be mixed with compassion. If we hate, we are no better than murderers (another message of Jesus).
i wonder what will be said of the ministers who will be coming out in the open in the days to come?
Since when is being "offended" at something someone says illegal? What in the world is "free speech" if it is not speech that is unrestrained? It seems the tv networks can curse God's name every twenty seconds and the Christian Community is supposed to just grin and bare it, (afterall, that's nothing more than free expression through the arts), but if we were to print an ad condemning immoral and socially destructive behavior, we're inciting hate speech????
HYPOCRITES!
well excuse God's children for speaking the Truth. Being gay is offensive to God. It is an outright abomination. Gays are not in the Kingdom. So be gay if that's what you want. Enjoy it now. Unless you repent and get delivered from the unclean spirit in you, you will perish.
Paul was referring to the ancestors of the Jewish legalist in Rome, who were so zealous for the law, yet broke them. Defintely unnatural as they were straight people worshipping fertility gods in Ancient Israel, and had same sex acts to please the gods in addition to sex orgies with women.
I would have preferred the ban being on an ad with "Gospel message".
Gentle Lamb
http://www.psa91.com
Singapore
Interesting that it was found "offensive" but not untruthful.
... age of polymorphous perversity
http://newmanmag.com/e-magazine/120308/story1.php
Q&A that could help some understand why marriage matters and the influence of Freud's age of “polymorphous perversity".
Minneapolitian,
"Sounds pretty offensive to me, especially when its directed at an entire segment of the population..."
So when people like you say that Christians are narrow minded, mean, self-righteous, ignorant (I'm using examples of what has been said about Christians), then that is construed as hate speech, and should be banned?
Minnie is a good example of that. He/she is already trying to get rid of the first amendment.
I wonder how long it will be before this starts happening in America?
Answer: Not very long.
min, it's definitely an in your face approach and maybe in Ireland it's appropriate, but I personally wonder what the logic was.
believe me there were no details mentioned. did i want to discuss it ...........why, do you think i was flagged. do you not know who runs this site?
actually im amazed at how much i have been allowed to write. i was banned from virtue.com
I wonder if a strait pride parade would be alowed to display kinky things in the public eye on the city streets.
argyle, phew!! you had me worried there for a second:)
"rollin, several years back Jeremiah Productions put out a video called "The Gay Agenda" in which they showed a gay pride parade and it was pretty graphic and the sad thing was there were a number of toddlers there who were exposed to some pretty kinky sights."
It doesnt matter what the children see, There's no such thing as morality, its just how your society teaches you to view good and evil, and what children grow up seeing doesnt effect them at all.(please note the scarsim)
"Since when has the Word of God been offensive?"
Well with statements like "The ad states that homosexuality is an "abomination" and warns of God's judgment upon a sin. It also says that it is a cause for regret that a section of the community desire[s] to be known for a perverted form of sexuality."
Sounds pretty offensive to me, especially when its directed at an entire segment of the population, so if your God does makes statement like that, than he and his hate speech will be banned, simple as that.
phat, I'm not voting on others marriages, I am voting to keep the definition of marriage in line with God's original and only design for marriage.
feetxxxl and others - the issue the article addresses is a church ad against homosexuality. Maybe I am alone on this, but discussing specific details of sexual perversion is not appropriate on a Christian website.
Please try and keep that in mind when you post.
HERE'S A SUGGESTION: Learn to live by The Golden Rule. Treat others as you yourself would prefer to be treated. Don't presume to vote on someone else's marriage if you wouldn't want them voting on YOURS.
The 12:25 feet posts were more of hiccup ~ the same thing posted 4x.
Not sure about the other posts.
feet, did you want to talk about sodomy?
my point is if you are not allowed to discuss the issue why post the article?
in other words you can condemn others for the sin, but you cannot discuss what and why something is being condemned.
that is very middle ages...........thank god there is no more burning stake.
apparently "christian post" suddenly has become a site where one is unable to discuss the subject of sodomy.
oh............you missed it!
then i said it was all about making laws to abide by another law............which was always necessary if one was following the law.
i love it. you are condemned if you dont marry. and then............. you are condemned if you do marry.
quite an efficient legal understanding.
So what did feet say to get him flagged?
phileo, like you I have to wonder what was the church's logic for printing such an article.
Phileo,
Well said . . . I agree; unfortunately, here on the CP Christians continue to defend Gods Word from some who reject its message and seek to replace it with social relativism . . .
rollin, several years back Jeremiah Productions put out a video called "The Gay Agenda" in which they showed a gay pride parade and it was pretty graphic and the sad thing was there were a number of toddlers there who were exposed to some pretty kinky sights.
Opps, sorry, it supposed to read
Noone care how much you know until they know how much you care.
Phileo,
I believe you have a good point. I once heard a wise paster say (believer, our mutual friend ;-)), noone cares who much you know until they know how much you care.
Hi feet,
Sodomy by any two people is sin, this is not in dispute. Please try not to suggest that sodomy is okay when done by heterosexuals and therefore must by okay if done by homosexuals. Thanks.
It's a shame that churches resort to advertising in secular newspapers to advertise sin. What possible positive outcome can there be from this ad? When you preach the Gospel to an unsaved world and start with sin, is it any wonder people reject it and turn away from it?
Jesus preached love, and THEN people turned from their sins. All this sort of Christian activity does is incite hatred and division. There are far better ways to preach the Gospel to the gay community.
Here is a message for your church . . .
Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent (Revelation 1:5).
The state may recognize these unions as a marriage but God does not . . . and any church that allows such ceremonies is not the church of Christ . . .
Feet,
It's sad that the believing gay couples in your church marry. I'm sure you've heard it before, but I'll repeat it again just in case. If these homosexual couples and your church don't repent and confess this as sin before God, then they will all be together as one big happy family in hell! Except I don't think they'll be too happy about it. The separation from God will be very painful! God loves you and your church, he's just not pleased with your behaviours!
what has that got to do with placing a bias ad in the newspaper about sodomy.
what has that got to do with placing a bias ad in the newspaper about sodomy.
THE BELIEVING GAY COUPLES IN MY CHURCH MARRY.
feetxxxl,
That's incorrect. The point is that the Bible teaches *ANY* sex outside the confines of a marriage (one man and one woman) is sin. Therefore, homosexuality is a sin because it falls outside marriage. And no, simply changing the definition of marriage won't alleviate the problem. God's definition stands forever.
Of course, the gay pride parade isn't offensive to anyone? LOL! Since when has the Word of God been offensive? Gay pride parades flaunt nudity and perversion and this is suppose to be good for society. If you ever want a video of a gay pride parade, you have to go to the XXX section of the video store.
Romans 1:27:
And likewise also the men, leaving the NATURAL use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; MEN with MEN working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their ERROR which was meet.
This passage explicitly states that if a man leaves the natural use of the woman for another man then it is UNNATURAL . . .