A Salvation Army leader is likely to be terminated after he announced his engagement to a woman who is not affiliated with the organization.
Capt. Johnny Harsh, a leader for the Oshkosh Salvation Army in Wisconisn, was suspended this week for violating a rule that requires officers to marry only from within The Salvation Army.
The suspension and expected termination did not come as a surprise to Harsh as he was aware of the rule when he joined the Christian aid agency. But he still feels it is unfair.
"I knew the rule and that this was coming and that I would be let go," said Harsh, according to The Northwestern. "But for The Salvation Army to let me go because I will marry outside of the Army, I think is wrong. I pray that people will write letters and call the Salvation Army to change this ruling. It wouldn't be for my benefit, but for future officers."
The marriage rule has been in place almost since the founding of The Salvation Army in 1865 by Methodist minister William Booth. Booth and his wife, Catherine, determined in those early years that married couples who function together in The Salvation Army are far more effective than having one spouse who was committed to the ministry while the other was committed elsewhere, according to Major George Hood, national community relations secretary for The Salvation Army.
The requirement, still in place today, is that both the man and the woman be ordained ministers within the organization, Hood explained.
"The rationality is that it's a joint ministry ... a team ministry. And both the husband and wife work together in all their assignments," said Hood, whose wife works alongside him in Alexandria, Va.
"For us, it has always been a policy and anyone who applies to be trained and ordained knows this up front," he added, noting that the policy is extremely effective and strengthens the mission of the ministry.
There have been marriages in The Salvation Army that failed, Hood acknowledged. Those who divorce are forced to resign from their positions. If, however, there is clear indication of a non-guilty party, that party is allowed to continue in the ministry.
The marriage policy is unique to The Salvation Army, Hood commented. But no one is taken by surprise by it, he added.
Hood declined commenting on Harsh's case, saying it is a personal matter between the family and the administration.
Harsh had been married to Capt. Yalanda "Yoley" Harsh but she died unexpectedly of complications from a heart attack in June.
"Yoley's death was completely unforeseen," he said, according to The Northwestern. "It's been hard on my daughters, myself and our Salvation Army family."
A final decision on Harsh's position is expected next week at a Salvation Army Territorial Officers Board meeting.
RSS
believer - In case you stop by, I have been seeking God about the Baptism in the name of the Father. When I know I will post.
IHS
>>> Some only baptized in the name of Jesus because of what Peter said in Acts, but that was because those Christians had yet to read or hear where Jesus told them how to baptize specifically. Jesus said how to specifically how to baptize, and Peter was saying generally not as a formal procedure.<<<
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Act 2:38)
Peter spoke the above under the authority of the Father thru the inspiriation of the Holy Ghost. It is God's way to do water baptism. Peter got it right, the early Chirstians and those who do it now in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost have it wrong.
ihs, your reference to Lazarus and the rich man, this was prior to the Crucifixion of Christ and very few people were taken directly into heaven and if they had put their faith in the Promised Messiah when they died they went to Abraham's Bosom while those who did not put their faith in the Promised Messiah went to Hades where they and those who reject Jesus Christ as Savior are still to this day awaiting the Great White Throne Judgment. That is why the rich man could converse with Abraham because he was in Hades and Abraham was in Abraham's Bosom which many believe was a part of Hades minus the pain and suffering and although there is a question as to when this event occurred after Jesus died on the Cross He went to Abraham's Bosom and took all those there to heaven and Abraham's Boson if it still even exists has been totally vacated. Plus, the Transfiguration was a one time event never repeated since so to use this as grounds to say people in heaven can observe the day to day happenings on earth is shaky at best, now can the saints in heaven intercede on behalf of some on the earth, perhaps but I believe it could only be as God brings those names to mind for them to intercede for.
IHS responded back to everyone but me . . . hmm, hopefully he will stop be this evening and continue in this discussion.
IHS - I am still waiting for you to explain what you mean when you say that you have been a Christian all your life.
IHS
Re:Pergatory
The teaching of a purgatory in 2 Macabbees runs counter to all the teachings Jesus gave on heaven and hell. If Macabbees was inspired by God then the teaching in it would be consistent with the teachings of Jesus. It obviously is not for Jesus taught that once you die, where ever you end up it is forever. If you die in your sins, you go to hell. You don't go to purgatory to be purged of sins you weren't forgiven for here on the earth. If you die with your sins forgiven, you go to heaven. Heaven is forever. Hell is forever.
The truth is either given in 2 Macabees or it is given by Jesus. If you accept Macabees then you are calling Jesus a liar. If He is a liar then He is not the Christ and you are not saved and are still dead in your sins. There is no reconcilation between Macabees and what Jesus taught.
The RCC is notorius for thumbing its nose in the face of God's Word. What Jesus says don't do, you do. The RCC needs to stop trying to make the Word of God say something that it does not say. Your whole religious institution is based on man. The RCC denies anybody enslaved to it the right to have a personal relationship with Christ. You will never find Jesus in all those rituals. All you have is a personal relationship with a unholy spirit. No where are the practices and teachings of the RCC in the Word of God. I know you don't see it that way but it is true. It will take God to remove the blinders off your eyes to see the truth. Hopefully, someday He will and when He does hopefully you will swallow your pride and renounce Catholicism and leave that ungodly Church called the RCC and start worshipping God in spirit and truth.
The Catholic Church is not the true Church. The true Church is comprised of believers from every denomination. And God isn't more present in the Catholic Church. God moves greatly in signs, wonders, salvations, and glory in many other churches. I have been to catholic churches. I was tempted to hook people up to EKG's just to see if they were alive or not. But I realized that the only ones I had to worry about were the ones who didn't engage in the "Holy Calesthenics".
Heaven. The Bible never describes heaven for us. Christians have been indoctinated for hundreds of years that Revelation 21 is describing heaven. At best, it is describing the New Jerusalem (which isn't heaven). But if you read the entire chapter, you will realize that it is indeed a description of a spiritual occurence.
Revelations 21:9-10 "9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God..."
And then it goes on to describe the Bride. God is comparing the Bride to a city. Otherwise, why would the angel say (paraphrased) "Let me show you the Bride of the Lamb", and then go show him a city? That doesn't make any sense. Not everything in Revelations is a physical manifestation. A lot of it is allegorical.
And even if it was describing heaven, and nothing unclean will enter into it, what's that have to do with purgatory? Don't you know that your spirit is already perfect when you get saved? It's your spirit that goes to heaven. "Flesh and blood will not inherit the kingdom of heaven." Flesh and blood are sinful and unclean. Our bodies wont make it to heaven. "To be absent from our bodies is to be present with the Lord".
I could go on for pages on Revelations 21. But I will post my teachings on my blog soon, and you can read it in its entirety there.
IHS,
"Matt 5:25-26 "you will be thrown into prison ...not be released until...paid the last penny"
You forgot the first part of that scripture: "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court."
So, no, it's not talking about purgatory. It's talking about when someone takes you to court. That's a looooooooong stretch for purgatory.
"1Cor 3:15 "If someone's work is burned..the person will be saved, BUT ONLY AS THROUGH FIRE"
That is talking about on the day of judgement (not before in purgatory) our deeds will be tested. "As only through fire"...I like the way the NIV explains it. "he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames." Which means, if you are saved, but you have no good deeds to show, you will be "barely saved". I know that sounds sophomoric, but that's the simplest way to explain it. Because in the previous verses it points out that our works will tested for quality...not that we will be "perfected". Whatever works we do here on earth will be judged.
"2Tim 1:16-18 (Saint Paul prays-asks God to have mercy on his dear friend, Onesiphorus who was dead)."
No, he prays for the HOUSE of Onesiphorus. Not for Onesiphorus himself.
"1 John 5:16-17 (Distinction made between deadly sins and ones that are not deadly)"
I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. But I do believe there are sins that lead to spiritual death. I believe blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a major one.
"Matt 12:32(Particular sin not forgiven in this life or next implies some sins could be forgiven after death)"
Now that one intrigues me. But I still see no correlation between that and purgatory. It's just not there.
And I'll will post my findings on your passage from Revelation. It's a long one, so I will have to start another post.
A great website is www.catholic.com
I am late again for class! Got to go!
Have a blest weekend.
Prophet,
So you don't believe in God's judgement then? Catholics believe in only two options after death; Heaven and Hell.
It is the Judgement Seat of Christ where he sends us to Hell or Heaven where we are purged of our sins. This is Purgatory.
Matt 5:25-26 "you will be thrown into prison ...not be released until...paid the last penny"
Matt 12:32(Particular sin not forgiven in this life or next implies some sins could be forgiven after death)
1Cor 3:15 "If someone's work is burned..the person will be saved, BUT ONLY AS THROUGH FIRE"
2Tim 1:16-18 (Saint Paul prays-asks God to have mercy on his dear friend, Onesiphorus who was dead).
1Peter 3:18-20( Jesus preached to the "spirits in prison")
1 John 5:16-17 (Distinction made between deadly sins and ones that are not deadly)
Rev 21:27 (Nothing unclean will be allowed to enter Heaven)
All these scriptures point to the fact that Purgatory is a blessing and a gift from God and not a punishment. Nothing imperfect or unclean will enter Heaven. This is God cleansing us from our sins.
IHS,
Can you please cite where you got this information? I mean, other than the Catholic Church says so. Something along writings and such from that time period that point that out. I'm not sure where to begin looking for that information.
It is historical fact that the early Christians from the year 80ad into the 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries prayed to the Saints especially to the Apostles who had died and the Virgin Mary for their intercession in Heaven.
So, The earliest Christians who were taught and discipled by the Apostles and their successors historically prayed to those saints who had already died and to their guardian angels.
You can pray to them for their intercession or not. It is not a mandated thing. I love the fact that I am doing what the earliest Christians did. I now pray to Mary for her intercession to Our Lord and also to St. Dominic who was the founder of the Order of Preachers. I love the fact I can ask for prayers from such holy and obediant Christians.
The Saints and Angels are alive and well in Heaven and they do care about us and offer prayers to the Lord on our behalf.
The Fact you don't want to be like the early christians, which is still carried by Catholics and Orthodox is not suprising STAR2 since your denomination was probably and division of a division of a division of a schism of another schism of another division. It is not surprising that so much Truth of the Christian faith has been lost on your group as it was in my parents church.
Purgatory doesn't exist. You have this physical life to do what you need to do, and become what you need to become.
It is appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgement.
Well Star2,
You are open to your own interpretation, but your interpretion is like usual not taking into account how the earliest Christians understood these scriptures and how they acted upon them. Sacred Tradition is the lense in which we see Scripture and how it makes sense.
Because you come from a tradition that has departed from Apostolic Tradition and any historical account you have no clue what the writers meant to say so you have to make it up yourself.
This is another reason why Catholicism is so attractive. Rather than listening to one person's interpretation, I get to listen to 2000 years of Christian witness.
To interpret scripture you must interpret it within the context of time, who it was spoken to, why it was spoken, the language and the Christian tradition of what it meant to those who were closest to that message.
When you sepparate yourself from the Church that Christ founded, it is no wonder why there are 50,000 denominations.
I wish the process was faster to become Catholic! I love the fact that so many seminarians at my school are following the same path that I am. All of us were evangelicals and none of us had any Catholic family. We all came to the Truth that the Catholic Church is who she claims to be "The Original and only church founded by Christ".
Protestantism and Evangelicalism is profoundly wounded, because you are not supposed to interpret scripture by yourself outside of the Church's hierarchy and secondly you have no right to be outside the Apostolic Church.
This is why I am never surprised when a new Christian group like yours', doesn't baptize in a trinitarian way. Outside the Catholic Church it is a slippery slope to heresy.
""Souls of the just are in the hand of God/..they shall shine/...shall DART about. Dead people don't DART, so they are alive with God."
Duh. But what does that have to do with being aware of anything? They're spirits. To be honest, I'm not sure if they're aware of what is going on in the physical world or not. The Bible doesn't say. Yes, Jesus talked to Moses and Elijah. But you notice that Jesus was transfigured first...into spiritual form. He didn't talk to them as a fleshly person. So it doesn't mean that Moses and Elijah were aware that they were even on earth.
But that still doesn't get to the original question. Dead saints do not pray for us. Their work is done.
ihs,
First, I do not believe the books of Wisdom and Tobit to be canonical; the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonical books teach many things that are not true and are not historically accurate.
Second, the passages you cited have nothing to do with those in heaven praying for us and the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is simply a parable: that is, a brief allegory that is used to teach a moral lesson; this story is not an actual incident which occurred. Also, there are some aspects of the account that do not seem to agree with the rest of Scripture. For example, can people in hell and people in heaven see each other and speak to each other?
The four living creatures, angels, and those in heaven do enjoy Gods presence and continually praise Him but they do not praise Him in order to earn merit. This gives not the least sanction to Romes dogma of our praying to saints. Nothing is said of them interceding for us, yet we are told to pray only to God (Rev. 19:10; Rev. 22:8, Rev. 22:9).
How is it that you were so emphatic about me being contextually accurate but you have not correctly interpreted these passages and you have neglected to answer my other request: can you share from scripture, the teaching of immaculate conception as well as the other extra biblical dogmas that you are soon to embrace?
IHS,
"Mt. 26:44 Jesus prayed a thrid time, saying the same thing AGAIN.
Lame.
Jesus was fighting with His flesh. His flesh didn't want to die, so the fleshly side of Jesus was asking God to please not ask Him to make Jesus do that.
There are many times when God tells me to do something I really don't want to. I'll ask Him numerous times to please not tell me to do that. But usually I give in to Him.
"Rev 4: 8 -repeat day and night,"Holy, Holy, holy is the Lord"
Lame.
That's praising God...not praying. I know they're spelled kinda the same, and even sound kinda the same, but they're not.
Nicely agrued star. Sorry, IHS, star put forth a better, more believeable agruement.
Re: Praying to dead saints
The RCC, uses Rev 8:3-4 to justify the practice of praying to dead Saints. The prayers that are offered up to God in these verses are the prayers that the saints prayed while they were here on the earth not while they are in Heaven.
God gives us a work to do while we are here on the earth. Part of that work is to pray for one another. Once He calls us home to Heaven our work has ended. Rev 14:13 tells us that: "...Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."
Praying to dead saints who you think is in Heaven is a direct violationg of what Jesus taught. He taught His disciples to pray to God the Father while He was still on the earth (Luke 11:1-2) and to God the Father in His name after He went back to Heaven (John 14:13, John 16:23).
You cannot find any scripture to support that we are to pray to dead saints. Once believers go to Heaven their work is finished. (Rev 14:13)
God does not hear your prayers if you pray any other way than to God the Father in Jesus' name.
The RCC also justifies praying to dead saints because Jesus talked with Lazarus and Moses and Elijah.
Re:about Jesus calling Lazarus from the dead (John 11:1-44)
Jesus said John 5:21, "For as the Father raised up the dead, and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom he will" . "quickeneth" here means "to give life to"
Jesus is our example. He is not showing that we can talk to the dead but that He has power over death.
God the Father answered Jesus' command for Lazarus to come forth because of John 5:21.
Re: About Jesus talking with Elijah and Moses (Matt 17:1-9)
This account was not to show us that we could talk with those who had already gone to Heaven. Jesus was transfigured; His earthly body transformed into His heavenly body. Jesus was seen by Peter, James and John in His glorified body (2 Pet 1:18). He was not asking them to pray for anything. They were discussing the Father's will in regard to Jesus dying for the sins of mankind.
Jesus is our example. He was talking with Elijah and Moses in His glorified (heavenly) body not His earthly body.
You to will be able to talk with Moses, Elijah, Mary, the disciples, etc or your family and friends who preceded you in death to Heaven when you go to Heaven but not here on the earth.
You better tell Jesus and those in Heaven to stop their repetitive prayer then!
Mt. 26:44 Jesus prayed a thrid time, saying the same thing AGAIN.
Rev 4: 8 -repeat day and night,"Holy, Holy, holy is the Lord"
The key thing with prayer is to pray sincerely and with a loving heart. Any prayer that is repetitive or just a single prayer that does not come from the heart and is not sincere is not effective.
First proving that those who have died are still aware of the Living:
Wisdom: "Souls of the just are in the hand of God/..they shall shine/...shall DART about. Dead people don't DART, so they are alive with God.
Matt 17:1-5 the Transfiguration of Christ where Jesus speaks to Moses and Elijah(who had already physically died so their spirits are alive and well and can speak to Jesus)Jesus is praying and conversing with Moses and Elijah. Proving that those who die in the friendship of God can intercede for us and we can talk to them.
mark 12:26-27" God of Abraham.. Isaac...Jacob..not God of the DEAD but of the LIVING.
Rev: 7:15 "They stand before God's throne/ and worship Him day and night" So, the Saints in Heaven worship God.
Luke 16:19-30 (The Departed Rich man who died, now wants to intercede for brothers) Abraham and the Departed Rich man have a conversation AND YET THEY ARE DEAD. So the dead do want to help us.
Those who die in the friendship of God are alive, after they physically die. Fact.
The Saints & Angels in Heaven are aware of what's happening on the Earth and they pray for us.
Tobit 12:12-15 (Angel presents Tobit and Sarah's prayer to God)
Rev: 5:8 the four living creatures and the twenty four elders(HUMANS) fell down before the Lamb. Each elder held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the Holy ones(That's us)."
Rev 6:9-11 The Martyrs under altar of God want EARTHLY VINDICATION. Sounds like they know what's going on and they are interceding to God.
The body of Christ cannot be sepparated by physical death. The Catholic and Orthodox understanding of the Communion of Saints is that we are one body of Christ, those on the earth and in Heaven. Those in Heaven do pray for us, Angels and the Cloud of witnesses and the elders bring our prayers through interceding for us to God.
We are not told we have to ask the Saints or Angels in Heaven for their intercession, but it is a pious practice of faith because these Angels and Humans are alive in Christ. They are aware of what is going on Earth, they bring bowlfouls of prayers to God of God's people. They are also closer to the throne of God and their prayers are more effective. This is no different than asking a friend of yours' to pray for you. All Saints whether in Heaven or on Earth can pray for us.
IHS
After Jesus observed His last passover with His disciples and before He was arrested in the Garden, He prayed to His Heavenly Father for His disciples. In His prayer He said to His Father, "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (John 17:17)
Jesus said that the Word of God was truth and prayed that the Father would santify those that believe on Him with that truth. Thus, The Word of God establishes what truth is. Any extra-biblical teaching that goes against the teaching in the Word of God is heretical. It is to be rejected no matter who wrote it and how close he was to the disciples in personally knowing them and being taught by them.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: so that the man of God may be perfect and thorougly furnished unto all good works."
According to 2 Timothy 3:16-17, the Word of God is all any believer needs in order to do the work that God has for him/her to do.
How you misinster to someone will depend on what you believe the scripture teaches. If what you believe does not align itself with the Word of God then you will be leading people astray from God's truth. Many times that misinformation, advice, or whatever you teach or say can result in a person losing out on eternal life, or practicing a sin that jepordizes or negatively affects their relationship with God.
If you are really wanting to know the truth of God's Word then I encourage you to turn to God and seek Him for that truth. Jesus told His disciples the following:
John 14:26 - "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
John 16:13 - "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
The RCC will try to tell you that those scriptures applied only to the disciples and not to us today. That is not true. The Apostle John said to the saints he wrote his first epistle to the following:
1 John 2:27 - "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
God wants you to understand His Word. He wants you to live your life according to it. He wants you to teach it accurately. He wants you to minister its truths to the people He brings your way.
For Christ's sake, for your sake, and for the sake of the people you minister the Word of God to, seek God for the understanding of His Word and not man.
Good discussion everyone....
"I asked that question to my mentor. You must confess all mortal sins to a priest."
Hmm...nope. Not in the Bible. But it does say "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." It appears that the Catholics have improperly inserted the words "to a priest" to the end of the phrase "If we confess our sins..."
Another fine example of Catholic corruption of the Word.
First, we are never told in the Bible whether anyone else in heaven even hears us. Can you post a passage of scripture that demonstrates someone in heaven praying for someone on earth or someone on earth praying to someone other than to the Lord in heaven? From what I have read . . . God alone answers our prayers.
Second, in Luke 1:47, Mary calls God her (Savior). Savior from what? A sinless person does not need a Savior. Sinners need a Savior. Since Mary acknowledged that God was her Savior, we also can conclude that she was acknowledging herself to be a sinner. Right . . . ?
The Roman Catholic Church claims that Mary was saved from sin differently from everyone else--that she was saved from sin through the immaculate conception (her being conceived free of sin). But is this teaching scriptural? The answer is a resounding . . . NO. This flies in direct opposition to Romans 3:10-23 (there is none righteous, no, not one) and Romans 5:12 (all have sinned) and countless other passages that stress this same fact.
So, again, only God can hear and answer our prayers. The Bible nowhere instructs Christians to pray through intermediaries or to petition saints or Mary (in Heaven) for their prayers. Did you know that for every one (praise to God) in the rosary, there are 10 praises to Mary! If this is not repetitious praying . . . I do not know what is.
(If only you went so far to look at things contextually, you would understand the bible a whole lot better)
I have taken this opportunity to contextually share Matthew 6:6-8 as you desired; so, can you now contextually share with me (from the pages of scripture), the teaching of the immaculate conception . . . along with the other extra biblical teachings that you are so eagerly and shortly to embrace?
Thanks
ihs,
It was for the sake of brevity that I did not give a detailed response to msn . . . I assumed that he was familiar with Matthew 6:6-8 which councils us not to pray as the heathen do . . . so, yes I am aware of its context.
Well, since you desire a contextually lengthy response, here it is:
Matthew 6:6; But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
(Enter into thy closet - That is, do it with as much secrecy as one possibly can; not to be seen of men)
Matthew 6:7; But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
(The vain and heathenish repetitions which we are here warned against are still practiced today; many are still, perhaps, unconsciously imitating similar prayers. This verse emphasizes vain repetitions NOT quotations from heathen prayers . . . so, again, prayers are but vain repetitions, if they are not the language of the heart)
Matthew 6:8; Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
(Omniscient as he is, he cannot be informed of any thing which he does not already know; he is always willing to answer our prayers according to his will)
In the RCC, not only is it (repetitious praying) carried to a shameless extent, but, the very prayer which our Lord gave as an antidote to vain repetitions is the most abused to this superstitious end; that is (in the number of times it is repeated in order to earn merit). Is not this just that characteristic feature of heathen devotion which our Lord here condemns? Although praying much and using the same words at times, is not here condemned, however, it is the daily habitual repetitious prayers that I am referring to . . . for example, the rosary:
While the first part of the Hail Mary is almost a direct quotation from Luke 1:28, there is no scriptural basis for (1) praying to Mary, (2) addressing her as (holy) Mary:
IHS,
" just as you should know that my call to become Catholic is in an effort to grow closer to Christ."
Interesting. That's why I'm NOT a Catholic. Because I want to grow closer to God in His truth, not in the Pope's truth.
IHS, "...the new path I am discovering."
The Glories of Mary by Liguori:
The Lord revealed to St. Catherine of Sienna, as we read in Blosius, that he, in his goodness, had granted to Mary, from love to his only begotten Son, whose mother she is, that not even one sinner, who commends himself devoutly to her, should be the prey of hell. [end quote]
We must be careful what new path we discover, lest we find ourselves straying from the old path of biblical truth like Catherine of Sienna. To walk the road to Rome, one must stumble from "All scripture...is profitable."
"And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified" (Ac 20:32).
star,
"Yes, Prophet it is sad. I wonder what is it that we are doing wrong or are we missing when we preached the gospel?"
What went wrong? Religious indoctrination. A lot like what the Catholic Church is involved in. Someone said it was supposed to be this way, regardless of what the Scriptures said, and that's the way it is taught.
ihs, I agree and you're sounding a whole lot more like the ihs I used to post with, hope you have a good class tonight, believer
ihs, but once again you're saying that God's grace is a tangible substance as opposed to the undeserved favor of God. If it's undeserved it means there is nothing we can do to deserve it.
Sorry, I got to go to Class. I'm late! Thanks for this last, more cordial discussion.
God bless.
So are you saying that we don't receive Grace by reading the bible, taking communion, getting baptized, going to church?
Receiving God's grace by doing the will of God is very biblical.
ihs, it may be in the catechism, but it's sure not in the Bible!
I asked that question to my mentor. You must confess all mortal sins to a priest IF they are available and you have no obstacles getting to them. Confession to the Priest is the ordinary form. However, if you can't get to a Priest because you are about to die then you can confess it straight to God and if your heart is sorrowful then you will be saved. It's in the catechism.
God gave us the sacraments as tools to convey Grace, but God is not bound to them. His mercy and justice is there for us at all times no matter what our circumstances. He is always and everywhere ready to save us!
ihs, plus you act as if grace is a tangible substance when scripturally grace is simply God's undeserved favor that was fleshed out in the death of His Son, Jesus Christ on the Cross at Calvary.
Also, I made the first Neo-nazi comment before msnchris took the comparison way further and more funnier I might add.
We were discussing faith and grace in ephesians and now part of my post is gone. It looks like my post has been clipped off 2/3rds of my message. Happy to re-discuss faith and grace if you had not read it before it was clipped off.
ihs, and you don't see those things you listed as being a form of works which are used to determine if you will go to heaven or spend time in purgatory which by the way there is no biblical support for and in some cases for instance dying with an unconfessed to a priest mortal sin on your soul going to hell?
Grace is infused to us by the Sacraments, but not by the Sacraments alone. Going to confession, going to Mass, reading the bible, praying to God, receiving the Eucharist all convey Grace. The things we do either fill us with Grace from God, or the things we do take away that Grace.
Going to a Praise and Worship retreat infuses Grace to us. The more we live in communion with Christ, the more Grace is infused into us. This is not a works mentality at all, but a perfect response to that gift which is full acceptance.
Yes, Purgatory from what I know is a real place and it is only for those who are going to Heaven who are not perfected in Christ. Many many holy people go straight to Heaven, many people will still have attachments to sin before they die and that must be purged by the loving fire of Christ. Again, purgatory re-emphasizes the mercy of God and the love for us and that it is all His love and Grace that get us into Heaven.
ihs, although catholics believe in grace they also teach it is works, be it receiving the sacraments or other good works that will inevitably determine ones final destiny.
I am sorry if I am coming off as arrogant as you say. I am just sincerely excited on the new path I am discovering.
Please understand that I am a lot younger than you and many others so sometimes my youthful passion for the Lord could come across at times as a "Smarty Pants".
I just want everyone to know the joy I have found in Christ in becoming Catholic. I will try to tone it down.
ihs, you better review what catholics really believe and teach about purgatory because unless there has been a huge departure from the teaching I received as a catholic in both grade school and high school seminary purgatory is a real place for those who can not go directly into heaven, but who are not condemned to hell.
ihs, but why all the bitterness and arrogance?
Mormons don't believe in Purgatory. Catholics do. Mormons believe they can baptize people who are already dead, Catholic don't. Catholics believe when you die it is either Heaven or Hell. Purgatory is the judgement seat of Christ where his love purges any uncleanliness of sin from us through the merits of His death and resurrection. Mormons believe that it is not by Grace we are saved. They believe if you live a good life you can enter into heaven regardless of religion. Catholics reject this.
Any other comparisons?
I'm sorry you left the church. I know from reading many of your past posts that you love the Lord and live and serve Him. No one can say you are not serving to your fullness.
I have no problem you being a Baptist, as most of my family is, just as you should know that my call to become Catholic is in an effort to grow closer to Christ.
ihs, I left the catholic church as a result of becoming a Christian as many former catholics did! Plus, you still have not responded to all the practices of the mormons that are very similar to those of the catholic church such as the hiearchy issue, paying and praying souls out of purgatory as compared to the mormons baptizing by proxy dead people into heaven, and most importantly works salvation.
IHS, "Be ware of the Devil..."
The Glories of Mary by Liguori:
Four years having past, a soul from purgatory one day appeared to her, and said, "Sister Catherine, how unhappy is my fate! you commend to God the souls of all those who die, and for my soul alone you have had no pity." "And who are you?" said the servant of God. "I am," answered she, "that poor Mary who died in the cave."
"How! are you saved?" exclaimed sister Catherine. "Yes, I am saved," she said, "by the mercy of the Virgin Mary. "And how? "When I saw death drawing near, finding myself laden with sins, and abandoned by all, I turned to the mother of God and said to her, Lady, thou art the refuge of the abandoned, behold me at this hour deserted by all; thou art my only hope, thou alone canst help me; have pity on me. The holy Virgin obtained for me the grace of making an act of contrition; I died and am saved... [End quote]
Yes, be ware of the Devil. "And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Ti 4:4). The road to Rome is bricked with a great deal of biblical abandonment.
Star2,
Thanks be to God you were properly baptized. We have proof that the early Christians in the first century were baptized in the trinitarian way. Some only baptized in the name of Jesus because of what Peter said in Acts, but that was because those Christians had yet to read or hear where Jesus told them how to baptize specifically. Jesus said how to specifically how to baptize, and Peter was saying generally not as a formal procedure. You see, the Catholic Church had not compiled the bible for us yet and many churches didn't have all the letters of the New Testament yet.
By the end of the first century while the Apostle John was still alive all Christians were baptized in the trinitarian way.
You make huge mistakes Star2 when you don't read the Bible as a whole and you take parts and bits out of context. The Apostolic and Bible supports the baptism in the trinitarian format alone, and it is Sacred Tradition that we know Peter was not giving the formula on how to be baptized, but Jesus was.