Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Society|Fri, Dec. 12 2008 08:29 AM EST

Pro-Gay Ad Takes Swipe at 'No Mob' Ad Condemning Prop. 8 Violence

By Katherine T. Phan|Christian Post Reporter

A pro-gay rights group published a full-page ad in The Salt Lake Tribune on Thursday to respond to an earlier ad by a religious liberty group that condemned the mob "violence and intimidation" directed against the Mormon church and other Proposition 8 supporters.

  • Protesters
    (Photo: AP Images / Gus Ruelas)
    People turn out for marriage equality at Los Angeles City Hall as part of a 'National Day of Action' in response to the recent passage of Proposition 8 which repeals the right of same sex couples to marry in California through a changes to the state constitution, Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008, in Los Angeles.

Truth Wins Out, based in Brooklyn, N.Y., ran a counter ad, entitled "Lies in the name of the Lord," stating: "Noting could be further from the truth. Those demonstrations across the country were remarkably peaceful and were a vivid example of Americans exercising their free speech rights, and we think it's inexcusable for anyone to misrepresent these protests for political gain."

The pro-gay ad was in response to a full-page ad by the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty that ran in The New York Times last Friday. The ad, entitled "No Mob Violence," deplored the violent protests that have ensued following the passage of a California ban on same-sex marriage.

It was signed by over a dozen over religious leaders, lawyers and theologians, who decried "the violence and intimidation being directed against the LDS (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) or 'Mormon' church, and other religious organizations - and even against individual believers - simply because they supported Proposition 8."

In the concluding paragraph of the Becket Fund ad, the group acknowledged although there were "fundamental disagreements" among them, they were willing to unite across faith lines to commit "to exposing and publicly shaming anyone who resorts to the rhetoric of anti-religious bigotry - against any faith, on any side of any cause, for any reason."

Signers of the letter included Kevin J. “Seamus” Hasson of the Becket Fund of Religious Liberty, Richard Cizik of National Association of Evangelicals, Chuck Colson of Prison Fellowship and William Donohue of The Catholic League.

The Washington, D.C.-based Becket Fund concurrently launched NoMobVeto.org, a website where readers could endorse the ad and take a stand for the right of religious people to participate in the electoral process without fear and intimidation from anti-religious bigotry.

In weeks following the passage of Proposition 8, opponents of the measure held numerous protests targeting supporters of the ban. While many of the protests were peaceful, some evidenced hate and intimidation.

Over 2,000 Proposition 8 opponents protested outside the Mormon temple in Los Angeles, chanting "Mormon scum." Another group picketed at megachurch Saddleback Church, holding signs reading "Purpose-Driven Hate," a play on Pastor Rick Warren’s book, Purpose Driven Life. Calvary Chapel in Chino Hills was spray painted and the members' cars were vandalized.

"There was not just one instance of vandalism," Brian Brown, executive director of National Organization for Marriage, told the Salt Lake Tribune.

"I was there in Westwood, [Calif. at the LDS temple protest]. I saw signs saying, 'Mormon scum,' and others encouraging the sort of hatred and violence we condemned. There have been fairly widespread attempts at intimidation, like calling Proposition 8 supporters at 2 a.m. and screaming into the phone."

The Mormon church has been a target by gay rights protesters because its members have donated tens of millions of dollars toward the Yes on 8 campaign.

The Becket Fund has maintained that their ad doesn't denounce "peaceful" demonstrations.

"Some folks claim we’ve attacked legitimate protests. Not true," the group said Thursday on the NoMobVeto.org blog site. "Our ad is about violence and intimidation, which is what mobs commit. It explicitly condemns violence against 'believers, gay people, or anyone else.'"

Gay rights advocates have been charged with running an intimidation campaign against individuals who donated toward the measure's passage.

Scott Eckern, artistic director of the California Musical Theater in Sacramento, was blacklisted by the gay community in Hollywood after his $1,000 donation to the Yes on 8 campaign was disclosed.

"Hairspray" composer Marc Shaiman pledged to never allow anything he wrote to play at the theater again. Protest from Shaiman, who recently created a Web video satire entitled "Prop 8: The Musical" that mocks Christians as hatemongers and Jesus as a Bible critic, and other gay rights activists pressed Eckern to resign in November.

Los Angeles Film Festival Director Richard Raddon, a Mormon, was also pressed to resign after his $1,500 donation to the Yes on 8 campaign was disclosed.

The latest "blacklist" example was noted on Thursday by Greg Gutfeld of Fox News' "Red Eye" program. Margie Christoffersen, who fills pitchers at El Coyote restaurant in Los Angeles, was forced to resign after gay rights advocates picketed outside her workplace, Gutfeld reported. Although a supporter of gay marriage, Gutfeld chided the protesters for their treatment of Proposition 8 supporters.

Pacific Justice Institute, a Sacramento based Christian law firm, has offered to defend those threatened because of their support behind the California marriage amendment.

"Californians have been shocked by the aggressiveness of radical homosexual activists who have ousted several individuals from their jobs and livelihoods based solely on their support for traditional marriage," PJI president Brad Dacus stated this week. "These tactics of fear and intimidation in retaliation for supporting a lawful ballot measure are completely unacceptable."

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  • Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "physical law of opposite attract like repel"

    And is it so hard to believe that God created certain men who are attracted to men? Well afterall, God loves diversity, does he not?

  • Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:22 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    MMM, the way you put it no.

  • Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The spirit of revelation according to Gods word ,not by anyones else philosphy, Sir, and I know that you are a man and you were design to naturally adapt to a certain physical law of opposite attract like repel, and you have a conscious and will to understand that principle Sir.

  • Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Gr8, who is to say their interpretation was not of God and it is you who has been mislead? Sadly, we won't know till heaven.

  • Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    No matter what interpretation or translation, the spirit of revelation should come from the same spirit, and if that spirit flowing from that person is not of God, then Sir, you are being totally mislead.

  • Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:50 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike, you are a brilliant young man, and it is wonderful that you had correspondends with biblicalscholars, however if they are using the bible responds to support your point of view of this sin, it is wise to find someone who can give you a more righteous interpretation of what GOD WANTS TO TELL YOU IN HIS WORD.

  • Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Elbib, prophet, and Bryan...what a shame that you do not honestly encourage each other to be better christians, but rather pat each other on the back and congratulate each other for putting down the queer. Shame on all of you. You truly disgrace God in your attempts to preach his word.

  • Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Bryan90: Do you think Jesus was full of hate when he called the Pharisees "hypocrites, whited walls, children of Satan, enemies of righteousness, blind, full of dead men's bones and of all uncleanness, within full of hypocrisy and iniquity, and who shed the blood of the prophets?" I just call it as you portray it. You think that you people have cornered the market on love, but in reality, you are so far removed from it. Your concept of love is skewed. Show me the Scripture where you said, in more than one place, that God loves Lucifer. Or are you pretending again to be something your not? Prove yourself worthy. If you can.

  • Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "what Bible are you reading from"

    Well obviously we have different interpretations of the bible.

    I might not be the best judge in determening other people's emotions. But take Prophet as an example. Most of his posts (there might be some exceptions), when he rebukes, he rebukes in peace, instead of hate. He disagrees by just wording, but not scolding or admonishing. For that, I admire him.

  • Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Bryan90: For heaven's sake, what Bible are you reading from. I challenge you to find me one Scripture where God declares that He loves Lucifer. You are absolutely ignorant to the Word of the Lord and, yet speak and declare as if you know. A fool is always considered wise until he opens his mouth, then he is exposed. If God loves Lucifer as you state, then, why has He already judged him to be cast into hell? God loves, but he still pronounces judgment to the disobedient.

  • Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Bryan90: Dear God Bryan, is the work "hate" all you homosexuals ever able to say? There is a big difference between hate (anger) and rebuke, or hate and disagreement, or hate and exposition. Everytime someone says something you don't like it's always labeled as hate. It is so childish and immature. Furthermore, where do you get off by saying that someone was called a devil? If you read the thread you will find that was an insinuated claim by your fellow toward my declaration. Yet,I never called anyone a devil. This is so typical of how you guys always take things out of context. Is it any wander people get frustrated with people like you. Unbelievable!

  • Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I sense so much hatred and anger in some of the posts here.

    I understand if you don't agree with my interpretations or my relationship with God. But please, hate not, not even those whom you deem to be the devil. For do not forget that is it not what God would wish to see. He himself, has never expressed hatred towards the Devil. (and don't try to use one or two phrases from Scripture to prove this wrong.. Because for every one phrase condemning the devil, there are two more saying how much God loves Lucifer.)

  • Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:32 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I have been called narrow minded. Amen and amen! I embrace that. And those who call me that are broad minded, to which they are also so proud.

    "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

    14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.'

    I'm glad I found the narrow way. I pray others would too.

  • Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    God forgive those who trespass against you in their willfull sin. Deliver them from evil. Let grace lead them from the road of destruction.

  • Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike: You and your kind are so good at sarcasm and exageration. The pride is on your part. Man being helpmate to man. Lying together in your abominable state. Promoting your sinfulness. Blind to the corruption and immorality of the lifestyle that you promote. You mock God as you conjure up your own doctrine through critical thinking and then act as if God accepts such rubbish. His Word is to be obeyed, not determined based on your own suppositions. Because I stand for the truth of God's Word does not indicate pride. I'm not attempting to promote and justify a sinful lifestyle as you do. Your sin will find you out.

  • Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Elbib, please. You speak as if I am the devil incarnate, I hardly give myself that much credit, not to mention, your sin of pride is fairly bold as well (refusing to admit you could possibly be wrong with your biblical interpretation.)

    Prophet, do not pray that your will be done, but rather, that God's will be done. You have shown your eyes are closed pretty tight, so you should really focus on helping yourself before you even think you're qualified to help others.

  • Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet: Don't let these who deceive themselves from the truth weary you. God's Word is secondary to their own notions. You can present the truth to them until your blue in the face and they will not see it, because they can't. They are only here to spill their poison of lies to convince whoever they may in justifying their wrong. You see the truth, hold fast to it. These are the last days. Men will be lovers of themselves. Sodom and Gommorah is an example.

  • Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Lord, help those who are in bondage to such a sinful lifestlye. Let your Spirit come upon them and convict them. Open their eyes. Do not let your children fall, but hold them up, and deliver them.

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:07 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike,
    I know what you mean. That's why I don't preach what I don't practice.

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Bryan, thank you. Its unfortunate that many call themselves Christians but cannot practice what they preach!

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Homosexuality is a sin. And I pray that those who willfully involve themselves in that lifestyle will feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit and turn from their sin. God is holy, and He cannot abide sin in His presence. Sin separates us from Him.

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "But I have failed God. He told me to simply speak the truth...not to argue. I need to get back to that "

    So have I prophet.. So have I....

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    But I have failed God. He told me to simply speak the truth...not to argue. I need to get back to that

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:35 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    bryan,
    "Do not base your faith on other people's". Amen. Good words! That's how I live my life. I base my faith on the Bible. The Bible shows me how to live, what to do, and what is not acceptable. I live my life accordingly. If I see my brother sinning, I am compelled by love to warn him or her. If they refuse to listen, they alone will bear the consequences.
    I will not let anyone's misguided faith control my own. And I will not let their false doctrines gain root in my own life. I will live a life of holiness. If others find it repulsing, then it shows that their fruit is rotten, and they do not serve the True God. My relationship with God is between me and Him. And when He tells me to do or say something, though I am condemned by man, my spirit rejoices in the fact that I am persecuted for His name's sake.

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike,

    I was just reading your comments! Stay strong Mike! You're not the only one who thinks that God created us for a reason!

    And my very devoted Protestant Mom told me something I found very wise, "Do not base your faith on other people's". So I hope you don't let those who "use God's name" to condemn you ruin your relationship with God. Your relationship with God is yours alone and let no one take that away from you!

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    No, you share your view of the truth and completely refuse to admit that the Bible can be interpreted.

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike,
    And I have shared the truth. But you refuse to listen because your heart is hardened.

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Actually Prophet, can you show me phrases where the Bible condemns homosexuality?

    I believe the Bible has stated that "sodomy" is a sin, and that men lying with men is a sin. But the bible also said that men having sex with women for non-procreation purposes is also a sin.

    Basically, based on my interpretation, ALL sex that are not done for procreation purposes are not "recommended" by God.

    The Bible NEVER said anything about men loving men or women loving women as a sin. Hence, if you find it justified to ban Gay Marriages, would it not also follow that all marriages that engage in non-procreational sex be banned?

  • Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet, you're wasting your time and attempting to spin in circles. I have presented my views and my beliefs but its clear you are not capable of having an actual discussion because you have your blinders on.

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Is that anymore childish than saying "uh uh. That's not what He said." (It is rather disturbing that that is what Satan said to Eve in the garden and that he is still using that same line today. And even more disturbing that people still believe it.)

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    No, you go with the interpretation that makes the most sense to you. Saying "well that's what the Bible says and you cant argue that" is childish.

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    So I go by what the Bible says. Homosexuality is a sin.

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:13 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Right, which means that in all truth, no one knows for sure which side it was, but it comes down to our beliefs (after all, isn't that what faith is?)

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You speak of people who have done historical studies of Romans and Corinthians, and say that it was about orgies. And I can find people who have done historical studies of Romans and Corinthians and say that it was about homosexuality.

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:51 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And you claim that men sleeping with men isn't a sin.

  • Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The issue is, people like yourself throw out all of Lev, but save one verse because it suits your point. You translate effeminate to mean gay, which is a flagrant stereotype. You do not look at the original, historical contexts, but read 2008 interpretations of the Bible and assume that all the men who translated them were doing so according to God's plan, and I believe strongly that with interpretation comes fallibility.

  • Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Yes, the Bible was NOT condemning gay marriages. At least directly. I doubt that was an issue back then. It just condemns homosexuality. And since homosexuality is a sin, then marriage under such sin would also be a sin.

  • Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    And I think the scriptures have been horrifically twisted by lazy Christians to suit their own view that their sin is ok.

  • Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I never said there is no sin, nor have any gays I have talked to, but I think scripture has been horrifically twisted by "Christians" who are seeking their own ends: condemning a group of people based on non-historical understandings of what the Bible was really condemning (hint, it wasn't gay marriage!)

  • Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike,
    "I have no interest in joining a group that has already made up their minds that I have lead a horrible life of sin and deprivation."

    I commend you. And I have no interest in joining a group that has already made up their minds that there is no sin, and that God condones sin. Call me crazy, but I don't care what morals and opinions people have. I care what God says. And he's called me to live a life separated from sin. Actually, He's called all Christians to do so, but most are lazy and never will live to their full potential.

  • Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DP, my life has not been wrong, and the Bible should not be read simplistically. I have no interest in joining a group that has already made up their minds that I have lead a horrible life of sin and deprivation.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike, Jesus said that which is not for us is against us. The catch is to make sure you are part of Jesus' "us".

    I am a member of a church which is made up of about 7000 people who have been "burned" by organized religion. Many stayed away from church for years because of how they were treated. So, yes...I do understand. The beginning of healing is to accept that others may be right and you may be wrong.

    My guess is the 'brilliant' people you email are those who support your being gay and tell you God is OK with you and He made you that way. They even have brilliant arguements to back them up. The problem is the Bible says Satan can appear as an angel of light. If what these people are telling you is different than what is clearly written in the Bible then they are wrong.

    We have people in small groups who argue that it is OK to drink alchohol. This is a true statement from a Biblical perspective. The problem is they are using it to defend them being alchoholics. Then they say they don't get drunk when their spouse says they do get drunk and others have seen them.

    The deal is simple. We care enough about you to keep telling you to get back to the simplicity of the Bible and turn your back on anything which doesn't agree with what is clearly written in the Bible.

    It WILL mean admitting your life has been wrong. Guess what...everyone who comes to Christ has to go there! I've been there myself (at least once or twice). The point you keep missing is it's not about us winning. We want you to win. To win you must lose.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer, quite honestly I do not go to a place to worship. I certainly do pray and meditate on a regular basis, but I have been extremely hurt and turned off to organized religion. As far as Bible study, a lot of it is through internet research and emailing back and forth with those I consider to be brilliant minds.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer, quite honestly I do not go to a place to worship. I certainly do pray and meditate on a regular basis, but I have been extremely hurt and turned off to organized religion. As far as Bible study, a lot of it is through internet research and emailing back and forth with those I consider to be brilliant minds.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike22685, you shared a while back that you left the catholic church or should I say no longer attend catholic church, I was wondering where do you go for Bible study and worship?

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike22685, please recognize we do not have the original texts of the Bible, we only have copies of them.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DP, the Bible has been interpreted plenty of times, so in order to come like little children (who ask questions upon questions) you need to study the original texts and the historical context in which they were written (again, I have not, I don't have the wits to do that, but I don't think calling it satanic because it goes against your beliefs is intelligent.) DP, no, I do not struggle with God because of my homosexuality, although I'm sure you'd like to write it off as such. I struggle with my faith because I see awful things happen to good people. I struggle with my faith because people ignore my life experience and condemn me to hell and tell me I don't actually have a relationship with God, yet they say all that "in the name of God." I struggle with my relationship because I am a human and I sin, but I know in my heart of hearts God made me gay for a reason.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:26 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Daniel Paul,
    That's a big reason why I struggle sometimes with my prayer time and study time.
    I sin...so I feel guilty and don't want to read and pray...so I get weaker....and then I sin more....and the cirlce gets tighter and tighter.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:52 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I struggle to keep my relationship with God every single day,"

    The Bible talks ofter about how sin can impede our relationship with God. Did it ever occur to you that your homosexuality may be the reason you "struggle to keep" your relationship with God?

    It would be a Biblical assessment. I have a friend who is stuggling with his situation and thinks God is giving him the short end. It's called coveting. He wonders why he is having such problems with his spiritual life. Well DUH!!!

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Sexual orientation as a condition wasn't even acknowleged until the late 19th century."

    Where's your source?

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