Updated 12:47 pm.EST, Sun November 22, 2009

Society|Sun, Dec. 14 2008 08:51 AM EST

Rick Warren's 'Punish Evildoers' Comment Raises Flags

By Eric Young|Christian Post Reporter

Megachurch pastor Rick Warren is under a bit of fire following his recent comments on Fox’s Hannity and Colmes show.

On the program, host Sean Hannity had asked Warren if expressing the need to "take out" Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was “advocating something dark, evil or something righteous.”

“Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped,” the Southern California pastor responded before being cut off by another question.

“By force?” Hannity asked.

“Well, if necessary,” Warren replied.

“In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers. Not good-doers. Evildoers,” Warren added, referring to Romans 13.

Shortly after, when asked by Hannity if killing an intruder to his house was justified, Warren said he would “absolutely” be justified to protect his family.

“But it’s not murder at that point?” Hannity asked.

“No,” Warren replied. “Murder is not self-defense.”

Following Warren’s appearance, Matthew Duss, a research associate with the Center for American Progress Action Fund, criticized the influential megachurch pastor for his “brief, if regrettable, foray into foreign policy.”

“[I]t's alarming to hear Warren deploying his spiritual influence in support of the ultranationalist ravings of someone like Sean Hannity,” Duss wrote in a commentary on Friday.

“I suspected that Warren was referring to Romans 13, which his office confirmed. But Romans 13 concerns the power of civil government to punish criminals, and has nothing to do, as far as I know, with invading foreign countries or assassinating foreign leaders,” he argued.

“[W]hen he offers his blessing to Hannity's hate, he does a disservice to his message and his faith,” Duss added, after acknowledging Warren’s positive contributions toward society. “He also gives ammunition to extremists, here and abroad, who posit a war of civilisations between Islam and the west. I think God would be against that.”

The timing of the comment also comes at an awkward time for Warren, as the evangelical leader is scheduled to speak during the Muslim Public Affairs Council's 8th annual national convention.

The Dec. 20 convention in Long Beach, Calif., will explore the theme of "A New Era, A New Role," and features leading thinkers, media professionals, and community leaders on the historic possibilities facing all Americans at this unique point in the history of the nation and the community.

“Seems to me that Rick Warren, one of the most popular Christian evangelical pastors in the nation, has some splainin’ (sic) to do to the Muslim bruthas (sic) when he speaks at the Muslim Public Affairs Council national convention in two weeks,” commented Richard Silverstein, a freelance writer and blogger at the Huffington Post. “Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to go over too well with the Convention guests.”

Kevin Eckstrom, editor of Religion News Service, meanwhile, offered a word of caution to the increasingly popular megachurch pastor.

“Strikes me that Warren (who's generally an all-around pretty good guy) needs to be careful here that he doesn't slip into Pat Robertson territory (he knows better), who advocated the assassination of Venezuela's Hugo Chavez,” Eckstrom commented last week.

As founder and senior pastor of the fourth largest church in the United States and author of the bestselling book The Purpose Driven Life, Warren has been one of the most prominent Christian figures in society today.

This past summer, he hosted the Civil Forum on The Presidency featuring both presidential hopefuls John McCain and Barack Obama at his church. Warren has also been named one of "America's Top 25 Leaders" by U.S. News and World Report, one of “15 World Leaders Who Mattered Most” and one of the "100 Most Influential People in the World" by Time magazine, and one of "15 People Who Make America Great" by Newsweek magazine.

Over 20 million copies of his New York Times Best Seller have been sold worldwide since 2002.

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  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Oh Warren... stay out of politics.. *please

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "his broadcasting tactics."

    That's what it is. Each broadcaster has a method of broadcasting which attracts a segment of the audience. Many people in news use the same "broadcasting tactics."

    Just FYI, for all the Catholics here... Hannity and O'Reilly are professed Catholics.

  • Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "[W]hen he offers his blessing to Hannity's hate, he does a disservice to his message and his faith," -Duss

    I do not agree with Hannity all the time, but to call his ideology hate is a disservice to the 'just war' debate. To say that Warren is in total agreement with Hannity may also be misleading. I doubt he agees with all of his broadcasting tactics. I don't.

  • Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    One point that may miss here is if we do not punnish evil doers then we are supporting a "lawless society". Lawful societies have laws and enforce them.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    ""Stupid things" may mean different things to different people. Could not Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonah, or even Jesus be interpreted by their respective contemporaries as saying "stupid things?" "

    The Bible says a prophet is not welcome in their own home. It's usually the listener who is stupid when it comes to listening to a prophet.

  • Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:52 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Actually, the criteria of saying "stupid things" should not be a benchmark at all.

    "Stupid things" may mean different things to different people. Could not Jeremiah, Isaiah, Jonah, or even Jesus be interpreted by their respective contemporaries as saying "stupid things?"

    Rather the criteria for judgment of a prophet's words should be the Word of God. Does what is spoken align with a biblical worldview? That is the important basis for proper discernment.

  • Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Dan65802 wrote:

    "Well, yes. But criticism is not to be the measuring stick for whether someone is a prophet or not. People who say stupid things will be criticized as well. That doesn't make them prophets."


    The relevant qualities of a prophet are descriptive not proscriptive.

    In other words, a prophet can often be identified as having such characteristics, but having such characteristics does not create the prophet per se.

    Identify the biblical prophets and highlight the commonly found traits.

  • Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    "What about those people who support these 'evildoers' Mr Warren? what do you do with them?"

    You are still missing the point, Mike. The problem is with the moral compass of the country. Once we adopted the goal of eliminating moral absolutes then we have an anything goes policy.

    Our country went to doing what was best for us and left doing what was right in the dust. Until we accept those moral absolutes again as a nation we will continue to have these issues.

    There is no sense of moral absolutes so from that point of view no one has done anything wrong...even President Bush. If you say that we shouldn't punish these people then we would have to also say that Bush was the greatest President in history who never made any mistakes.

  • mike »
    Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    What about those people who support these 'evildoers' Mr Warren? what do you do with them?

  • Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hey Mike!

    The problem has been politicians on both sides of the isle getting further from Biblical principals. The more they do "what is right in their own eyes" the more they mess up the world.

    Years ago we stood up against those who did not "love their neighbors as themselves". However, that is a Biblical concept to many people and separation of church and state gets thrown in the way of the morality needed to do the right thing.

  • Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Indochristian,

    I did google Orissa Christians and I am amazed we are not hearing more about this in the media or even in our churches. Keep reminding us here of this persectution so that we Americans will consider how easily this can happen to us here.
    IF in a similar situation, say Obama, was assassinated during his term I could see this mob mentality if someone blamed the Christians for it. Already we see that Gov Palin's church was burned by arsonists and although we don't know who the arsonist was, the sentiment is the same. A hatred toward God and His people. We will no doubt see a rise in this kind of activity as we see similar things happening with the pro-homosexual movement against people of faith in the passing of prop 8. I would only hope we as Christians would be as strong as the Indian Christians have been in the face of this persecution.
    Let's pray and support the Orissa Christians as the same is likely to happen here in the not-too-distant future.

  • Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Dan65802
    Whether or not the USA is "good" Vs the evil leadership of Iran or North Korea is not the issue. God uses nations to punish other nations for His purposes. There is little doubt, Biblically, that Iran is an evil nation as it intends to preempt and take out Israel when given the chance. The USA has never been deemed "God", but only an instrument established by God as identified in Romans 13. God used Babylon and Assyria as His instruments to take out Judah and Israel as God's wrath was against both Jewish nations. Neither Assyria nor Babylon were ever considered Godly nations. The Just War Doctrine appears applicable to correct Iran's current course of action.

  • Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    holito wrote,

    <<"Rick Warren is correct. God does not negotiate with Satan(evil).">>

    I think there are many that have a serious problem both biblically and rationally with equating the United States or its government with God and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (or any national leader) as satan.

  • Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:32 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Add the Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hinu Parishad America, Sangh Parivar, Bharatiya Janata Party to the evildoers list. Google "Orissa Christians" and you can judge for yourself.

  • Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:32 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Rick Warren is correct. God does not negotiate with Satan(evil). God is not a man that He fears death or will lie.
    God will remove if necessary any evil force that prevents His people or His messagners from going forward. God uses a nation or nations to bring another or other nations into correction. God does as He pleases and He does not apologize.

  • mike »
    Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    to daniel paul

    punish evildoers? what about dictators america supported in the 60s 70s 80s & 90s who killed thousands. dictators like shah of iran, marcos, noriega, saddam & batista. they stole money from the very people they were supposed to help & protect or were tortured & killed when they protested. america stood by not bec. of 'freedom & democracy' but 'self-interest' in those nations. these dictators were evildoers. but the killings when on & on. but if the truth like this is exposed, those who tell the truth are labeled leftist, liberal, unpatriotic, america bashers. and by the way, after they are have no use for america, they will be discarded & labeled a hitler.

  • Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Squeaky wrote,

    "A prophet will be unpopular, criticized, misunderstood, maligned, mugged, & smeared."

    Well, yes. But criticism is not to be the measuring stick for whether someone is a prophet or not. People who say stupid things will be criticized as well. That doesn't make them prophets.

  • Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:54 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    A prophet's job is to speak the Truth while being motivated out of love.

    One could not care less about what mere humans think.

    The focus is on what God thinks & the desire to act in obedience to His will.

    A prophet will be unpopular, criticized, misunderstood, maligned, mugged, & smeared.

    It comes with the territory. The rewards are not of this world. The heavenly crown is for those who endure this earthly journey with faithfulness.

    The public relations game & the public relations image should be the least of one's concerns. Whoop-de-doo.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Seems like the media is trying to keep Warren in the politically correct bubble he's been in for years. Don't disobey us Warren!

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    i think its calle the porpoise driven life...something like that.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "The Purchase, I mean PURPOSE, -Driven LIfe"

    ???

    Has your Church done any of the Purpose programs such as the 40 Days of Purpose?

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Pastor Warren, I'm sure, understands that the world hates him and his worldview. They love him when he's not challenging them (The Purchase, I mean PURPOSE, -Driven LIfe), but when he suddenly speaks with the authority of Scripture they scream. No surprises there.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    One thing people don't realize is that darkness takes over in the absence of light. If you do not stand against the darkness it will take over.

    Case and point. I don't live at the edge of the earth but I've got a good view of it from my back porch. We had a couple of guys in a pickup 'casing' our street. They got to the top of the hill and came back down with a look on their faces that clearly reflected the desire to just go far, far away! A fellow who use to live accross the street would drink and target practice on Friday nights.... Yes, he kept his bullets on his side of the road. These two young men could tell this was not an area to do 'business'.

    In the case on the war on terror, the 'evildoers' attack here and then go home to another country. THEY have made this a global issue...not us. My guess is if they just stop being terrorists we will stop going after them.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    A.S. Matthew,

    I wouldn't doubt that one or more of these opec countries doesn't go under from all of this.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "Anyone can make statements of their opinion on going to war. I suggest those who make suggestions of war be the first ones to sent on the front line! "

    You mean where my son is right posted right now? It amazes me just how many of the military who are over on the battle fronts voted for McCain. After all, they are the one's with first hand information. I guess they see something we don't get told by CNN.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:06 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    When he crude oil price was skyrocketing every day, the
    OPEC members were laughing all the way, on the other hand
    the consumers around the world were crying after filling
    the gas tanks less and less and driving by faith. Nobody
    thought that the crusde oil is going to plunge every
    day, even though the OPEC is using all the tricks to
    curtail the price drop. Some day, next year, the crude
    oil price will come to $ 30.00/barrel and the regular unleaded will be $0.99/gl or less. At this point, some
    of the oil producing countries will feel the pain of
    political unstability, starting with Iran. God's judgement on some people will start by plucking them
    out from heaven. We need not have to revenge anybody
    but God who toppled; tower of Babel and annihilated the
    false prophets of Baal will take care of this job, wait
    patiently.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "I'm saddened to see the last eight years has taught most of you nothing."

    It obviously hasn't taught much of anything to anyone. The goal of the terrorists is to wipe out every trace of western culture. Quite frankly, it the terrorists were in complete power they would track down each person on this site and kill us simply because we all agree each person has a right to their own opinion. This is the only thing they want.

    I find it interesting that Obama's staff appointments have disappointed the liberal camp. Some may remember me making comments back in early November that it will be interesting to see the direction he goes after his first briefing as President elect.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:03 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Has Pastor Warren been in the Service of the USA? I am amazed that often those who are in favor of going to war have never been in the US Service. Anyone can make statements of their opinion on going to war. I suggest those who make suggestions of war be the first ones to sent on the front line!

    I have heard many times that war is an old man's design. I think Pastor Warren is too old to even be a chaplin, and I am sure it could not pass the physical requirements to ge allowed to fight.

    Watch PBS tv and at the end of the News there are the pictures, and information on each person killed. Frankly, sometimes it breaks my heart to see their pictures, I have seem many who were still teenagers, who are fresh out the home where mom and dad have just launched their son or daughter.

    I am not saying we should not defend our country or help a country who is being attacked. I am totally against making the first move such as we did in Irag, because of very faulty information.

    Just to add one think that gives me the ability to say with some authority; I have been a 100% disabled veteran for 40 years now. This is the price I pay daily for being in the service. My disabilities due to war serve me as a constant reminder that I paid the price for which I deserve the right to say war is not like you see in the movies. Some of us pay every day for serving our country. Be careful in what you ask others to do when you have never served one day.


    farout

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Center for American Progress Action Fund"

    WOW! The last time I saw stuff like this was when I studied communism.

    Just FYI, it's Duss.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:52 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    There is a fine balance between Romans 13 and Acts 5:39 which says, (Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men).

    We are indeed to be subject to the powers that be, so long, as they do not repudiate the clear commands of God.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "using a religious figure to appeal to humanity's lesser instincts rather than our higher ones."

    Wow! So you think it's a higher instinct to run airplanes full of people into buildings? I think I'll stick with the 'lower' ones that say we should live in peace when possible but still willing to defend ourselves.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    philo, and to think I thought you voted for obama, hopefully you'll accept my apology for thinking that!

  • artm »
    Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:19 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Yea, Let's see what we have in common with Ahmadinejad, surely philo there must be something right,?

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    I'm saddened to see the last eight years has taught most of you nothing. Thank you, pastor Warren for reminding those of us who voted for sanity why we did so. Let's start looking for our similarities rather then our differences, for a change.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    This is so typical of Sean Hannity and his ilk -- using a religious figure to appeal to humanity's lesser instincts rather than our higher ones.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:51 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    As a pastor who seeks to interpret the Bible accurately, I agree with Rick Warren. God never negotiated with evil, nor did He tell his people to do so. He may have allowed evil leaders and nations to succeed for a time, but it was for the purpose of allowing time for repentance. Once a nation or a leader hardened it's evil stance against God, God allowed for that nation to be destroyed. Hitler was evil and had to be stopped. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is calling for the complete annihilation of the Jews, yet the West wants to negotiate. Whether it will happen or not, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is evil and should be stopped. Thank you Rick Warren for telling the truth.

  • artm »
    Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I do not agree with anything warren says, But I do agree with him here.

    Let the true church stand up and be counted.

    Let the World know there is but one God, His Name is Jesus.

    The World won't like it, But that's just the way it is.

  • Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:52 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    It was once said...."If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen..."

    Pastor Warren is learnig how to take the heat.

    I do not agree with every position Pastor Warren takes, but I am very happy to see another church leader stepping forth to confront sin on a very conservative level.

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