TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) - Attorneys for an atheist soldier at Fort Riley will be amending their lawsuit against the Department of Defense to include new allegations about evangelizing in combat.
The evidence is in videos discovered by the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. The group and Spc. Dustin Chalker are suing Secretary Robert Gates over alleged violations of religious rights.
Chalker is an atheist who claims he has been forced to attend mandatory military formations where Christian prayers are given.
The videos show soldiers and Christian missionaries talking about their faith and the desire to spread Christianity to Muslims. The video also shows the missionaries, who were embedded with units, handing out Dari language Bibles.
Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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"Brother DP, your post on India, got flagged."
Just some quip about not getting customer service if India shut down.... :) It had nothing to do with the story itself.
Brother DP, your post on India, got flagged. What did you write there? and who flagged it?
Merry Christmas
Is it actually done? Yes, depending on the company. I do some work as a webdesigner so I have some idea. (I do mostly my own sites for special needs kids and stuff.)
You may have noticed that the fake posting stopped just after I posted about the FBI and all. I really didn't think anyone here would sue whoever!
It's interesting that (if I have my posters correct) that the person who was saying Christianity would fall apart in a short time without the fear of hell and damnation disappeared shortly after the threat of prosectution.
So, why did I post what I did? I suspected the person was in a permissive mindset which said they should be able to do whatever they want and how dare God expect otherwise. Although I knew it would have the effect of ending the false posting, I wanted to place a wake-up call for them that there were consequences and their sins would find them out. The Bible is true, don't 'cha know!
My guess is CP will turn the person over to their IP provider and have their service terminated for violation of contract. That's what usually happens. If you won't drive right you're license needs to be revoked for the well being of all the other drivers.
DP
Regarding hacking this system, is this done? Doesn't someone have to have my password in order to write a post under my name? I'm wondering why they wouldn't just flag it and have it drop off the system "as inappropriate". I've saved a copy and will repost if this should happen.
If it is only a kid with a laptop, he is a kid with an agenda to discredit my testimony. Funny, Believer just mentioned this guy and out he pops, Hmmm.
Interesting web name in view of the comments, lord and light? Must be a misnomer.
If I were in a combat situation with this soldier, I would really have a hard time trusting him.
If Specialist Chalker is truly a front line soldiers facing live fire from the jihadist guerilla in day to day operation, I feel sorry for his fellow squad member.
Jihadist guerillas are modifying and advancing their tactis on daily basis. They are not wondering how do they manage to get where they are and finding ways to return back home. They are trying to kill as many US soldiers as possible while luring, ambushing and flanking these young US squaddies
Complaining and complaining would not get your squad in good faith with each other.
In real combat situation, you fight for the soldiers with you in that foxhole and you have to place your trust and faith with them. That is law of survival to live and fight another day.
Complainer such as Spc Chalker would not win wars. They are just making a scene so that his Sgt will return him from the front line and place him in the rear echelon with his Lt approvals.
If that is not done already, making Chalker another typist or errand boy in the battalion E4 or E5.
Again, I pity the NCOs and Lts handling Chalker.
"Just FYI, hacking into a system can be prosecuted by the FBI and carries jail time. Once identified the individuals who have false posts under their screen names can actually sue for damages such as defamation of character. The advertisers could also go after the person in class action.
Just FYI, each time a person logs in the computer keeps track of the IP addresses. Come Monday they will go through the log, find the IP address and most-likely report it to the authorities. It's been done several times so they will be able to track it.
How do I know about this? I've been a spam-cop before. I tracked and reported spam back to the IP providers. ;D
How do you think the system knows to put the "delete" feature only on the posts that come from each person?
"Stop. Being. An. ldiot. It's nothing supernatural..."
I'm sure that's what you would have said to Jesus when he said to Peter "Get behind me satan."
I'm going now to watch a movie with my family. Bye.
People-
Prophet isn't trustworthy, faithful, OR intelligent. He's Protestant. Remember this when talking to him.
People,
Don't forget that tliml isn't spiritual, he's Catholic. Remember this when talking to him.
I've got an idea. Online, Tallguy, Star2, believer, and Prophet. All of you get MSNs, we can contact that way without this interferance.
Delight,
Stop. Being. An. ldiot. It's nothing supernatural. Gosh. It's some kid with a laptop.
No, I'm really not doing this. The only way I could do it once was the first time on a new computer. It's impossible for me to do it ever again. This is different. Somebody is hacking the site and doing something illegal.
ditl, according to star2, supposedly thelordismylight has discovered a way to do this, but I can't say with all certainty it is him/her, but thanks for the warning, believer
I've heard it said that giving one's testamony is a powerful thing, please find it below in earlier posts.
I wrote a post a minute ago regarding the vile words under the byline of DelightntheLord and was so shocked, I looked for the delete button right away. Surprisingly, I was able to delete it, even though I did not type the words! If I had presense of mind, I would've looked under my comments to see if it was duplicated there.
I cannot see how someone can use the same by line name without it not being kicked back by the webmaster as name already taken.
If this cannot be done, then I shiver to say it was a supernatural occurance and although I have fought a few spiritual battles I have never seen a thing like this before.
Has anyone had a similar experience?
A Word of Caution Out There on these Posts!
DID YOU KNOW that someone can use your web name and write nasty things under your by line?
Yeah, I was surprised too when I read a post supposedly from me that said some vile things.
I quote Jesus here to you, "Get behind me Satan".
Father bind them in the Name of Jesus Christ.
Hey Zeno,
Just checking back with you. I wrote all of that to you to let you know that there are things we as humans cannot know and cannot observe through our human senses. We can talk about origins all we want, looking back and supposing this and that, but it is something we will not know for sure in this lifetime.
The journey I have made was not one of my doing, I was led by Someone outside myself at a time I was not looking for a 'religion'. I instead found relationship with a real being; Jesus Christ as it is written, He rose from the dead and I know He changed me and made me alive to Him and He will raise me from the dead. Since 1988, I have been a student of the Bible and have been taken by the prophetic words and the plan of God revealed in Scripture...just as it is written today, no interpretation needed. Many cannot read and understand the Scriptures because the Bible is a living word and the spirit within man needs to be regenerated by God's Holy Spirit, which happened for me when I asked Christ into my life; through His Spirit I can comprehrend His message.
I believe we see in the current conditions of mankind, a begiining of a climax to all of things and knowing biblical prophesy has satisfied me of not only just understanding historical events, but future events through the lenses of Scripture. Jesus Christ promised He would return and He has told us what to look for to know the time of His return and these things are coming to pass.
I would hope for you to consider my words and perhaps begin your journey with Christ and be saved from death and God's judgment. For me, taking a step into the unknown and unforeseen has given me rest for my soul, confidence in my future and a rush of reason and understanding of knowing Him. Keep in touch, friend.
"I'm trying to understand why a Christian, who claims he gets his moral values from God, would have so little respect for the rights of minorities."
Why will God send people to hell?
to Zeno:
"No. It was founded on the principles of freedom of religion and freedom from the state becoming involved in religion. Or do you think the freedom is simply the freedom to impose religion on everyone else?"
Your absolutely right, I agree with you 100%, this country was built upon freedom of religion for all people. Then how is it that you are standing up for what you are opposed to, government intervention in religion, it happens everyday, when students go to school and are forced to worship atheism. How is it that we are OK with intervention in that matter, how is it that we are OK when the government says that pastors can no longer teach the word of God because it has references to homosexuality. The government is intervening in every area of religion, however I only hear about how the few are being "forced" to adhere to a "doctrine" by the many. Look around and research, it isn't the christian that is doing the controlling, it is the few using the government to force their beliefs, their religion if you will, upon others.
to ProScience:
"This is all about respect for minorities. Minority religions and the minority who are not religious at all. I'm trying to understand why a Christian, who claims he gets his moral values from God, would have so little respect for the rights of minorities. "
Its not about respecting the rights of minorities, it is about the few deciding for the many because everyone is afraid of hurting someones feelings. Thats all, I find it disrespectful to the solders that have fought and died for this country in the past when a few people determine it isn't right for my child to pray inschool, how is that hurting anyone else. That is the problem...
It's okay to say...it sounds nutz! But one must at least have a sense of humor and not take themselves too seriously to get through this life. I'll catch up with you later in the week or over the weekend, check back with your thoughts, too.
DelightntheLord said: "...if you think I'm just nutz"
Yep! You asked for that! :-) Seriously, I would like to continue this conversation, but it's well after midnight here, so it'll have to wait till tomorrow.
I assume you're in the US, so enjoy the rest of your day!
Zeno,
You've raised a lot of good questions and it is clear that you are an educated person. I'd like to be able to answer some of the questions you put forth, but there is something I feel I need to say that changed my perspective on everything I thought I knew and it happened in the flash of a moment. Please indulge me my story below and I thank you at the onset for your patience with me and also your consideration of what I have to say.
Hi Zeno,
Mine is too long, so I call this Part ONE
I know we are coming from two different belief systems and I understand there are a lot of things about a Holy God (and the concept of God) that is very hard to get a grasp on. First is the doctrine of the depravity (sinfulness) of man, second that we live in a world that has been cursed by God beginning with the first of His creation disobeying His only direct rule given to them and lastly, to make a solution for mankind that God sacrificed His Son so that we may have forgiveness of sin and restore the fellowship between fallen and man and a Holy God.
You are not alone with your distaste for God. I know I was, I thought Jesus was pretty harsh and it wasn't until I read the Bible from cover to cover that I understood at least the outline of God's plan for humanity and for me it was a rush of reason, I got it, but something within me still felt rebellious; I could not grasp an idea of a Holy God.
As a naturalist, you may not believe in a realm of spirit, of unseen influences, but please indulge me here (even if you think it fanatasy :D)
In April of 1988, I was touched by Something outside of my direct field of experience, Someone bigger than I was, Someone with benevolent intention. I was seeking something; maybe peace and I couldn't find it within my skin, at the time I had physical pain that drove me and I embraced a New Aged philosophy whereas I wanted to believe I was god, I made my own reality and set my own rules. As a result of just desiring something other than what I was, I really got into this new belief and when I did, I looked inside myself and saw my own depravity, my own finiteness; my own deadness. That drove me further into a deep depression that I thought if I just got into my car, I wanted to crash into something to kill myself. Now the circumstances in my life were good, I was successful and everything from the outside looked good, but I was in despair, for no apparent reason.
Part TWO
That night, instead of getting in my car I sat in the bath tub and mused about my lot in life. I had been brought up as a catholic, but I never believed in catholism but one thing came to my mind and it was a teaching I had heard. Jesus says of Himself that "He is the way, the Truth and the Light, nobody comes to the Father but by Me".
I had no understanding of that saying but it came to my remembrance at that time, so I spoke aloud something along the lines of "Jesus take my life, I cannot live it anymore". In that very moment, everything had changed and I didn't generate this within myself! The darkness lifted abruptly; new life washed over me and I felt animated to the point of outright giddyness. It lasted for a long time; this strange feeling of ...joy? Newness? Rebirth? I didn't understand it and I had no control over it.
I lived rurally, I had no Christian friends, no one told me to pray and my religious training was sketchy at best. I had no knowledge, no regard for the things of God or the Bible. Over the months that followed, circumstance brought me into contact with books about God, the first being a book by Hal Lindsay (of "The late Great Planet Earth) but this book was called "Combat Faith." It had a lot of referrences to the Bible and I looked them up and actually studied what I was learning. I felt guidance in my everyday circumstances by this benevelent Spirit and it was after a while I realized it was Jesus.
Look, I am no different from you, in fact I feel you have more faith in something than I had at the time of my encounter. It's been a long journey into this knowledge I have been given but my point in being longwinded here is that it was something outside of myself has changed me, not any argument for God, but God Himself. I'd like to share more with you about this without making you feel I am pushing a belief system on you. I just opened a door and invited and I received. Please let me know if you'd like me to continue or if you think I'm just nutz. Thanks for listening.
My post was too long for one hit!
You said: "If, as so many are doing these days, we 'overwrite' the conscience with another code that says (in effect) I make my own reality and live by my own rules that put me in first position over your apparent need, then we see a breakdown in society and cooperation with one another."
But that's not what happens in general and it hasn't really changed over the centuries. Of course some people are selfish, but there are always those who do effectively abide by the Golden Rule (and laws of the land) and live perfectly moral lives - many without a belief in a god.
"This is why God put down to us a written code as a guideline to follow."
I'm still not sure where this 'code' is and when humans were given it, although I assume, if you 'do not believe in evolution' (I have a problem with that phrase!), then do you believe god put Adam and Eve on earth and we are all descended from them? Please excuse my ignorance on this: I know there are some who do believe this, but I'm not sure what you believe in this area.
"what we innately believe to be true; i.e, treating others the way we would like to be treated by others."
Now I'm confused what you mean: if it is innate, then it is a trait that (I would say) id the result of millennia of evolution and (you might say) is because god put that principle there.
"God's solution for that is to send a Savior in Jesus Christ that through His loving us first we may in turn love Him and one another and be given the power to fulfill the law."
Now we're really getting into things I just can't comprehend! As a solution to a perceived problem, allowing your own son to be killed seems a bit of a hard thing to swallow for an omnipotent being! I'm sure you'll excuse my disbelief at this, and I'm sure you've heard it all before!
"This may not be what you wanted to hear, but I find it is not only backed by what the Creator says in Scripture but also what God has shown us of His Nature by loving us and empowering us with that same love."
I have several difficulties with this: I see the bible as being written by man, not god nor man inspired by god. If this is his way of showing his love, giving us a world full of natural disasters, disease, the ability to be so selfish that millions die of starvation every year, yet do nothing about it as if it part of his unknowable plan, then I see him as a god I can't look up to as a paragon of virtue and moral behaviour!
I do need to say, DelightntheLord, that I do appreciate our discussion. It has been informative and interesting and always polite. Thanks.
DelightntheLord said: "What do most of these animals do to the weakest of their species,(the old and sick); they do not attempt to nurse them back to health nor do they normally ensure that the weakest would get a fair share of food to survive, they generally leave them behind to die as they serve no purpose or can no longer 'cooperate' with and for the good of the pack or the herd."
There certainly are some animals who do leave old and sick siblings behind, but many do not. Just a few examples:
Dolphins support sick or injured animals, swimming under them for hours at a time and pushing them to the surface so they can breathe.
Bonobos have been observed aiding injured or handicapped bonobos.
Walruses have been seen adopting orphans who lost their parents to predators.
Anyway, you do talk about 'most of these animals', implying you do accept that some animals do support the old and sick.
"Humans are not like this...YET. With the advent of all the TV shows like Survivor and Weakest Link, we are seeing an application of this very thing we see in the animal world. How long do you think we will have a social structure if we keep emulating the animal kingdom in excercises such as this? But I digress."
Since there are some animals who do look after their old and sick, I can't see how you can use this as a differentiator with humans.
"I do not believe in evolution..."
Do you mean you think that no animals change over time, adapting to suit their environment, with survival of the fittest?
"but if I ascribe to this belief in any way, I'd say humans are "de-volving" as we no longer structure our society on moral belief as we see morals as religion based and of course, there is a movement afoot to keep religion out of the public domain and thus undermining the moral code...but that is outside the scope of our discussion here."
I think this is entirely pertinent to our discussion: what's the evidence that we are 'de-evolving' (I assume you mean morality is on a downward slide)?
You need to be clear what you mean by the 'public domain'. Are you talking about what the State becomes involved in? Or do you mean people are being prevented from practising their religion?
"I believe we are given a conscience by way of a Creator that has incorporated a code (maybe like a DNA) within each of us for an appreciation of the "Golden Rule'; do unto to others as we would have done unto us."
Well, if god did encode it in our DNA, he messed up a bit since there are obviously many who do NOT ascribe to it! You'd have thought he could have made it universal.
"The 10 commandments were given to highlight or point to this golden rule."
Only some of the ten are in sympathy with the Golden Rule. I can't see you can argue that only having one god or resting on a Sunday has anything to do with it.
Continued...
Hey Zeno,
Just as a side note to clarify my thought about this ability we have to 'overwrite' our conscience, there is also given to us by our Creator an autonomy that allows us to choose freely: free will.
God allows us to choose or not choose for Him; He did not create robots but very complex, autonomous creatures, capable of thought and ability to sear our given conscience with false or self willed belief. Thanks for the conversation. :D
Okay Zeno,
I feel you on this; does cooperation equal empathy?
What do most of these animals do to the weakest of their species,(the old and sick); they do not attempt to nurse them back to health nor do they normally ensure that the weakest would get a fair share of food to survive, they generally leave them behind to die as they serve no purpose or can no longer 'cooperate' with and for the good of the pack or the herd.
Humans are not like this...YET. With the advent of all the TV shows like Survivor and Weakest Link, we are seeing an application of this very thing we see in the animal world. How long do you think we will have a social structure if we keep emulating the animal kingdom in excercises such as this? But I digress.
I do not believe in evolution but if I ascribe to this belief in any way, I'd say humans are "de-volving" as we no longer structure our society on moral belief as we see morals as religion based and of course, there is a movement afoot to keep religion out of the public domain and thus undermining the moral code...but that is outside the scope of our discussion here.
I believe we are given a conscience by way of a Creator that has incorporated a code (maybe like a DNA) within each of us for an appreciation of the "Golden Rule'; do unto to others as we would have done unto us. The 10 commandments were given to highlight or point to this golden rule.
Because we are adaptable beings and can be influenced by our environment to a degree; this environment would either enhance or diminish our innate ability to have compassion, empathy or cooperation with one another that make for a civil society.
If, as so many are doing these days, we 'overwrite' the conscience with another code that says (in effect) I make my own reality and live by my own rules that put me in first position over your apparent need, then we see a breakdown in society and cooperation with one another. This is why God put down to us a written code as a guideline to follow. Because we kept breaking the laws it showed us our inability (due to a lack of love for another) to fulfill what we innately believe to be true; i.e, treating others the way we would like to be treated by others. God's solution for that is to send a Savior in Jesus Christ that through His loving us first we may in turn love Him and one another and be given the power to fulfill the law.
This may not be what you wanted to hear, but I find it is not only backed by what the Creator says in Scripture but also what God has shown us of His Nature by loving us and empowering us with that same love.
DelightntheLord
I think we're misunderstanding each other! I think it would help if you could tell me whereabouts you think the ten commandments fell in the evolution of man. Or do you think we were given a moral code prior to this? If so, when?
Just one point, however. You said: "It seems we would be better able to survive if we operated in a ruthless, immoral way, but most of us do not."
This isn't necessarily the case. There are numerous other species of animal who thrive on cooperation, not confrontation and there is nothing to say that operating 'in a ruthless, immoral way' would be a better survival technique for any particular species - they have all evolved to fit their niche in the animal kingdom: some are more ruthless than others, but some cooperate and help each other. If all animals were ruthless, there would be no herds or packs of animals - they would all be individuals eking out their existence alone.
Zeno, for clarification;
" It seems we would be better able to survive if we operated in a ruthless, immoral way, but most of us do not."
That argument is based on the comparision between the animal kingdom and human society.
Evidently, our survival does not depend on mankind's (or Darwin's)"survival of the fittest" (ruthless and immoral) as does the animal kingdom.
That is what sets us apart...by honoring God through a pure conscience, he proptects us and we protect each other; the weakest of humanity, which makes us civil as a society.
I just didn't want to see you come back as saying there is a conflicting viewpoint when I agreed with you as saying that we as humans could not survive without morals and a code of ethics.
Zeno says."If homo sapiens were ruthless, totally immoral creatures, how did they ever manage to survive?"
My point exactly! Human society is structured differently and in opposition to the structure of the animal kingdom in that our moral behavior isn't suited for 'the strongest survive', rather based on empathy for our fellow man. Animals have no empathy and are survival oriented.
This code of conduct has been given to us...we didn't evolve into it because our moral code does not guarantee our survival, but rather would work against it. It seems we would be better able to survive if we operated in a ruthless, immoral way, but most of us do not.
zeno,
"No it's not: it was first written down (long before Jesus) by K'ung-fu-tzu (Confucius) and probably existed long before that."
Yeah, that's what I'm saying; it came about at creation and being created in God's image.
There is no way that apes hold the same moral code as man; they have no 'do unto other's' code as in the golden rule, rather their structure is survival based...one ape doesn't steal the banana from an ape that is higher in the hierarchy. That ape would kill the theiving lesser ape. It's not conscience that determines or drives an ape's behavior, it's survival.
Our moral code is quite the opposite; we determine that we wouldn't like someone to steal the banana from us and so we don't. The person who does has to work against the conscience in order to steal and kill.
As far as the 10 commandments go; the first deal with our vertical relationship with God our Creator and the last ones concern our behavior, horizontally with our neighbor.
DelightntheLord said: "Zeno, "Society can't survive without the common moral values..."
I couldn't agree with you more, but why do you suppose man 'evolved' with a conscience and a moral code if not from being created in the image of God? The golden rule: do unto others as you would have done to you is very much a Biblical concept."
No it's not: it was first written down (long before Jesus) by K'ung-fu-tzu (Confucius) and probably existed long before that.
But you've missed my point: how did humans ever get to that stage if not by cooperating and considering others? If homo sapiens were ruthless, totally immoral creatures, how did they ever manage to survive?
"No other mammals have this ability, where did it come from?"
Other mammals also have this ability. Many apes live in groups and they can only do this by considering others - they have a 'moral code' that's evolved to work for the best of that group to ensure its survival.
"Do not kill; do not steal; do not covet your neighbor's belongings (envy); do not bear false witness are not religious concepts."
I did not say these were religious concepts: what I said was that the first (four) of the ten (ie only having one god, having no idols, not taking his name in vain, keeping Sundays to worship him) are religious precepts.
Zeno, "Society can't survive without the common moral values..."
I couldn't agree with you more, but why do you suppose man 'evolved' with a conscience and a moral code if not from being created in the image of God? The golden rule: do unto others as you would have done to you is very much a Biblical concept.
No other mammals have this ability, where did it come from?
Do not kill; do not steal; do not covet your neighbor's belongings (envy); do not bear false witness are not religious concepts.
DelightntheLord said: "Zeno, what are your values based on if not from, let's say, the 10 Comandments?"
The question is: what are the ten commandments based upon (indeed, which ten commandments - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_commandments)? How did humanity evolve so far that homo sapiens were able to talk, build cities, herd, produce crops, play games, discover fire, invent the wheel, read and write, debate, discuss, etc, etc? All this required cooperation between humans, putting aside any differences: it required a moral code. They did not go around always stealing from each other; they did not go around always killing each other; they did not always go around lying to each other, they did not always go around raping each other's women, they did not always go around coveting their neighbour's possessions...if they had, there would have been no towns and villages or even tribes, just warring individuals - or perhaps the human race would have become extinct long ago.
To get to the stage in evolution where man was able to read the tablets supposedly given to Moses by God required one heck of a evolved society that already had rules and laws and moral behaviours that encouraged cooperation and altruistic behaviours and discouraged selfish ones. Of course there were murderers and thieves and adulterers, but nothing much has changed: there still are murderers and thieves and adulterers.
What did the ten commandments give to man, then, and what did they change? Well, the bit about only having one god, having no idols, not taking his name in vain, keeping Sundays to worship him...these are religious precepts, nothing more and they are not common moral values.
Society can't survive without the common moral values that existed long before the ten commandments were ever dreamt of, but it can survive (and must of society does) without the add-on commandments of a god concerned about people only worshipping him and him alone: those I reject, not the others. At least we have something in common! :-)
I haven't forgotten what you replied in answer to my question about freedom of religion and I'll return to that later.
Zeno, Yes, I believe in freedom of religion and government being free of the influence of one particular religion...but not free to enact godless law. This sounds like a set-up question and I won't argue with you where I think you want to go, suffice it to say the Founding Fathers based the constitution on the morality that God handed down and citizens are free to believe or not.
You have said earlier ,"Having no belief in any kind of supreme being is not the same as having no values."
Zeno, what are your values based on if not from, let's say, the 10 Comandments?
DelightntheLord
Do you believe in freedom of religion? Does everyone have the right to believe what they want?
Zeno,
I am talking about the banning of religion by states in the USA; when prayer was taken from the classroom, parents lost the right to influence their children's education in public taxpayer funded schools, when a validictorian cannot thank God in a graduation speech, the 10 Commandments were taken off courtroom walls, when free speech is denied because of accusations of 'hate speech" when accusers disagree with the point of view and feel offended, religious displays in public are deemed unconstitutional...much more.
I don't think all Christians would want Christianity to have full control of the Government due to the fallen nature of man and the curruption that power brings. We DO look forward to Christ ruling and reigning in righteousness here on earth and I believe many Christians are satisfied with that.
I sorry to offend you but no confusion here, I lump 'em all together; secularists are atheists and are often terrorists and the "religionists" you refer to. (FYI the devil loves religion, hates relationship); secularism and atheism are religions as both have faith in humanity and the unknown; so they are true religionists.
Not all terror is by way of bombs but by cohersion through court system (as in the above story) and lobby groups who pay to have their point of view made law using their influence over elected officials as well.
And God is benevolent but He will never intrude on our God given right to free choice and watch out when He gives us over to our own ways!
DelightntheLord said: "I believe the state is very involved in religion; that is, the banning of it."
In what way is the state 'banning' religion? I assume you're talking about the USA?
"we are not intended to have a theocracy here of one religion over another."
I'm glad we agree! But I'm not sure everyone will agree. I'm sure many in the USA want Christianity to have full control over the State and the lives of everyone.
"However, in that there is no prohibition between the state and God....just as the wording in the first paragraph of each state constitution it still says, " we are grateful to Almighty God..."
This has yet to be removed by the state but I'm sure that an arson fire or two, an unhappy atheist or raging, protesting crowds, or bombs and threats might make our secularist, elected officials determine to change it. But watch out God may allow them to do it."
I think you've got atheist confused with some religionists or terrorists. And why would god allow them to do that? Isn't be omni-benevolent and omnipotent?
What do you mean by the word 'secularist'?
"and freedom from the state becoming involved in religion"
I believe the state is very involved in religion; that is, the banning of it.
What you might have meant to say; 'and freedom from religion influencing the state'...which is well and good, we are not intended to have a theocracy here of one religion over another.
However, in that there is no prohibition between the state and God....just as the wording in the first paragraph of each state constitution it still says, " we are grateful to Almighty God..."
This has yet to be removed by the state but I'm sure that an arson fire or two, an unhappy atheist or raging, protesting crowds, or bombs and threats might make our secularist, elected officials determine to change it. But watch out God may allow them to do it.
Pro-science a-z
No one is deleting your comments here as it would have read 'flagged as inappropriate' and I haven't seen that, perhaps you deleted them yourself, as this is the only option to deleting comments here? Is paranoia a part of you atheistic, scientific, religion? Always a conspiracy, right?
Perhaps you could recommend some history books that haven't been altered to fit the conservative.religious agenda? :-)
History is history, did not the Pilgrims come here for the freedom to worship. Just go to the library of congress and you will see that the laws of the original colonies were verbatim the old testament. Hard as it is for you, our country was founded on Christian principals. The founding fathers believed in the God of the bible and I think their writings will show that. Question is are you able to accept it?
shooter38
I freely admit I don't know that much about the Constitution or the Founding Fathers, but I do know that many think the Constitution ensures the separation of church and state.
I'll do some research and try to respond more fully later. Perhaps you could recommend some history books that haven't been altered to fit the conservative.religious agenda? :-)
No. It was founded on the principles of freedom of religion and freedom from the state becoming involved in religion
Zeno, you should really try reading some history books that haven't been altered to fit the liberal agenda. John Adams stated "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other"
"Only virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious they have more need of masters." Benjamin Franklin
"The sum of all is, if we would most truly enjoy the gift of heaven,let us become a virtuous people;then shall we both deserve and enjoy it. While, on the other hand, if we are universally vicious and debauched in our manners, though the form of our constitution carries the face of the most exalted freedom, we shall in reality be the most abject slaves" Samuel Adams
Perhaps because he's not a coward.
Gee, I don't know, it seems one little prayer has him spooked.
Enforced indoctrination is no way to lead someone to Christ. My four siblings and I were raised in a religious orphanage, and I am a Christian despite that experience not because of it. Only one of my siblings is a Christian and the other three will not listen to anything about God or Christ. And we were children, I can imagine how an adult might be far more resentful.
The clearest path we can make for others to come to Christ is to try to live as Christ did. To learn His word, live His word and be willing to be a witness to His word. Forced conversion was and is a tactic that is best used by religions where God's love, forgiveness, sacrifice, redemption and repentence are not the foundation of your faith. God has never demanded forced conversion. He asks that we willingly be obedient, because the consequences for failure are final.
zeno, the Christians here are out of control. They delete comments for no reason. I never saw so much immorality in one place before.
bjhirning said: "Why doesn't anyone remember how this country got started.
It was through Biblical principles that this country was started."
No. It was founded on the principles of freedom of religion and freedom from the state becoming involved in religion. Or do you think the freedom is simply the freedom to impose religion on everyone else?
"Who stands for this country? Our military serves this country diligently, with respect and honor."
Take a look at www.atheistfoxholes.org to find out all about the many atheists fighting for their country with diligence, respect and honour.
"It makes me sick to my stomache that people have to squeeze out our beliefs."
Just one atheist is managing to squeeze out all those Christian beliefs out of you? Come off it. He's not omnipotent! All he's wants is to stop Christians imposing their beliefs on others - that's what freedom is all about, isn't it?
"Do you think for one minute that athiests believe in money or justice?"
See above website.
"God is the ultimate Judge and you know what it says on our money. Forgive me for going off but why don't people realize that taking God out of the equation is ruining our ecomony, justice, children, and our country. When are we as Christ followers going to say "NO MORE!"
Wait a minute! You've just had an extremely religious President who took every opportunity to bring religion into everything and you're now complaining there still isn't enough?
"If you have no beliefs, than why are you in the military?"
Having no belief in any kind of supreme being is not the same as having no values.
This is all about respect for minorities. Minority religions and the minority who are not religious at all. I'm trying to understand why a Christian, who claims he gets his moral values from God, would have so little respect for the rights of minorities.
"If you have no beliefs, than why are you in the military?"
Perhaps because he's not a coward.
Missionaries were embedded with the units, I'd really like to hear more about this practice if it's true.
I just did a quick search on google and couldn't find it. Delight, it may have already been changed. :( I did send an email to the pastor asking where I can find it though.
Well, Shuck perhaps the US Manual you speak about will be changed as so not to offend one or two atheists now that the lawyers are being employed through our tax supported court system.
Perhaps it will one day say, 'young soldier, hold on to your army issued undies, you are in for a rough ride.'
"The videos show soldiers and Christian missionaries talking about their faith and the desire to spread Christianity to Muslims. The video also shows the missionaries, who were embedded with units, handing out Dari language Bibles."
Good for them!!! We need more people like this!
As for this being used for evidence? I dunno, if there's video of a ranking officer forcing the soldier to do these things then maybe he has a case? Regardless, I am proud of the Christian soldiers! I hope this case loses.
On another note. I was in church not too long ago and the preacher was reading from a manual given to US soldiers. It said in times of distress & war to always refer to one's faith. It even suggested to memorize scriptures so one could comfort themself if they didn't have a physical book to read from.
My question is this: If they can hand such a manual out then how on earth can the military lose this case? Just a thought...