Most American Christians believe many religions can lead to eternal life and among them, the vast majority says you don't even have to be Christian to go to heaven, a new survey shows.
Sixty-five percent of all Christians say there are multiple paths to eternal life, ultimately rejecting the exclusivity of Christ teaching, according to the latest survey conducted by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.
Even among white evangelical Protestants, 72 percent of those who say many religions can lead to eternal life name at least one non-Christian religion, such as Judaism or Islam or no religion at all, that can lead to salvation.
Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, called the survey results "a theological crisis for American evangelicals," according to USA Today.
"They represent at best a misunderstanding of the Gospel and at worst a repudiation of the Gospel," the prominent evangelical theologian said.
Majorities among white evangelicals, white mainline Christians, and black Protestants who do not believe in the exclusivity of salvation say Catholicism and Judaism can lead to eternal life, Pew results show.
Smaller but still sizeable percentages (more than half) of white mainline Christians, black Protestants and white Catholics who say there are multiple ways to eternal life also say Islam can lead to salvation; among white evangelicals, 35 percent agree. And more than half of white mainline Christians and white Catholics who view heaven's gates as wide say Hinduism can lead to eternal life compared to 33 percent of white evangelicals and 44 percent of black Protestants.
Surprisingly, Christians also believe atheism can provide a ticket to heaven. Forty-six percent of white mainline Christians, 49 percent of white Catholics and 26 percent of white evangelicals who believe many religions lead to salvation say atheism can lead to eternal life.
Mohler called the findings "an indictment of evangelicalism and evangelical preaching."
"The clear Biblical teaching is that Jesus Christ proclaimed himself to be the only way to salvation," he told USA Today.
Explaining the challenge many believers face in today's culture, Mohler noted, "We are in an age when we want to tell everyone they are doing just fine. It's extremely uncomfortable to turn to someone and say, 'You will go to hell unless you come to a saving knowledge of Jesus.'"
The Pew Forum first surveyed Americans on the exclusivity view of salvation in 2007. The survey of 35,000 adults provided startling numbers with 57 percent of evangelical church attendees saying they believe many religions can lead to eternal life and overall, 70 percent of Americans sharing that view.
But when the survey results were released in June this year, critics reported flaws in the survey such as the Pew Forum's definition of evangelical and the vagueness of the statement "many religions can lead to eternal life." Critics say it was possible some respondents may have interpreted "many religions" as other Christian denominations besides their own while others might have thought more broadly to include non-Christian faiths.
The new survey, conducted July 31-Aug. 10, 2008, among nearly 3,000 adults, serves to clarify the previous findings.
And alarmingly, 52 percent of all American Christians think that at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life.
Additionally, only 30 percent of those affiliated with a religion say one's belief determines eternal life; 29 percent say eternal life depends on one's actions and 10 percent believe it's a combination of belief and actions.
White evangelicals were less likely to say actions determine who obtains eternal life compared to white mainline believers, black Protestants and white Catholics; and they were more likely to agree that salvation is dependent on belief (64 percent) compared to only 25 percent of white mainline Christians.
Despite the alarming findings, the Pew Forum provided one trend that may be good news for evangelical Christians.
The percentage of evangelical Christians who say theirs is the one, true faith has gone up from 39 percent in 2002 to 49 percent in 2008. The religious exclusivity view has also grown among black Protestants, all Catholics, and slightly among white mainline Protestants.
RSS
If a Christian is spiritually feeding from Gods word how could they possibly come up with more than one way to heaven. If they do worship on a regular basis,what is their pastor teaching them?
maryanne1962, Everyone has their own religious beliefs due to a variety of factors- genetics, up-bringing, life experience. "Correct" beliefs are those that make sense and bring solace to the believer. Your religious views work for you, but by no means for all.
ok so an alarmingly, 52 percent of all American Christians think that at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life. well we do all have eternal life either in Heaven or in Hell. BUT it is ONLY BY BELEIVING IN JESUS DO WE GO TO HEAVEN.
to pvlman:
#! no one can be good enough, not a single one of us, no body is sinless. all of us, everybody is not worthy of heaven. ONLY BY JESUS CAN WE BE SAVE AND WASH CLEAN and go to heaven BELIEVING IN JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY
Anyone can say they are a christian. but it takes more than just believing in God to truly be a Born Again Christian, (the devil him self Knows there is a God) and it takes more than believing in Jesus (the devil knows him too) but you most have faith that God rose Jesus form the dead and that there is No way to the Father (or Heaven) except thourgh him. to call yourself a christian dose not make you one.
No one alive can't possibly know what happens after death, why trust anyone who says the do? I have always been at a loss why someone would want to believe in a good that would deny eternal reward to persons who otherwise lived a fair and just life? Such a belief has to be bigotry on the first order, sorry.
Slacker
<<So you Cherry pick the stuff from all the religions so that you can live the life you want to live and make up the truth as you go along instead of saying there is an absolute truth that one must follow. >>
Religion is made by man for man, religion should be about finding solace and making us better people. Ones religion is a very personal thing, unfortunately many attempt to impose their beliefs on others and use religion to control and threaten. I do "cherry pick" from different religions, I take lesson from that which make sense to me and ignore the rest.
And there is no such thing as absolute truths.
I do follow the laws of the land. So, no I dont feel I can do whatever I want. To me, religion is nothing to do with laws.
Thanks for asking.
to Johnzon,
"An agnostic?, I suppose I am although I don't really call myself that. I try to take lessons from many religions that which I think can make me a better person. There are lessons to be taken from Christianity, Islam and Buddhism to name but a few. I am very skeptacle of the notion of an afterlife. I certainly dont take religions very seriously. "
So you Cherry pick the stuff from all the religions so that you can live the life you want to live and make up the truth as you go along instead of saying there is an absolute truth that one must follow. Thats interesting, by your logic you should be able to make up whatever laws soot your fancy as well, so that you don't have to follow the rules but when they are convenient to you, instead of to everyone on the planet.
To those who believe God sends people to hell:
Everyone at one point were headed to hell. That is just the default value, if you will. Jesus came and said "Hey, I've got a way that you don't have to go to hell. Just accept me and the fact that I gave my life for you, and you wont have to go to hell."
And people say that He sends people to hell. LOL.
You know, everyone dies. It's enivitable. It's the default value, if you will. If I said "Hey, I came up with a drink, and if you drink it, you will live forever in health and youth, and never be sick again, or be hurt." And you decided not to drink it, would you accuse me of killing you?
Msnchris70
All Christians are ignorant Christians to start with. And even the most learned, compared to all knowing all of God, are all still VERY ignorant. We all need to grow in our relationship with God, and Hes happy when we just put one foot in front of the other in the right direction.
Freespirit. All ways to God are not correct, because they contradict each other. You can choose NO way, or agnosticism, but one way will emerge as Truth for those who want to find it.
Johnzon. First THANK YOU for being a part of this forum. Just like prosciencezz, you make people think, and we certainly need more of that.
HISTORY LESSON for some clarity, and very simplified too.
Christianity and Islam are so far apart in their beliefs, besides ONE God, that it isnt even like apples to oranges, its more like apples to meatloaf.
ID4234 You are right on. Mohammed went to the Jews of his day and said Im just like you and a brand new prophet. When they rejected him, he went to the Christians and said Im just like you and a brand new prophet. When THEY rejected him, he got angry and said to hell with you all, Ill form my own sect from Abraham and kill you all for rejecting me the arab moon god Allah. That is the thrust of the Koran. If you read it, and I have, then there ARE mentions of Abraham, Moses, and even Jesus but Mohammeds accounts they dont line up with the biblical account of these patriarchs.
If you read Jesus account in the bible, try the book of JOHN Johnzon, Jesus NEVER threatens people into heaven. NEVER. He hopes youll choose His FREE offer of salvation if you believe that He paid for your wrongdoing. And thats it. There IS hell, but most religions have a bad place you go if you mess up. Most of them are base on works, on being good enough, including Islam. You know deep inside that no one can be good enough. No one can. BIG DIFFERENCE. Only Christianity offers a guaranteed free pass if you believe Jesus paid for your sins. No other religion is so loving and generous as Gods free offer.
Msnchris70
All Christians are ignorant Christians to start with. And even the most learned, compared to all knowing all of God, we are all still VERY ignorant.
Why do some people who profess "deep fellowship" with God, deny His spirituality, their own sprituality, and the Bible's spirituality?
For lordismylight
Re:Allah and Yahweh: read “Do we worship the same God? Jesus , Holy Spirit, God in Christianity and Islam†by Mark Durie, which lays out clearly the differences between Allah and Yahweh.
Ok.
tliml, as I said you continue to affirm the fact that you are truly showing all the characteristics of the fulfillment of Romans 1:22.
What? You just said absolutely nothing. When you boiled that paragraph down to its basics there was nothing. It was just... nothing.
tliml, it appears quite possibly you might be the fulfillment of Romans 1:22.
feet, how many Christians out there have been fooled by so-called men of God whose lives displayed what appeared to be good fruit and then were taken to the cleaners by these very same men. The point is that while the fruit displayed by people may be an indicator of their desire to live for and be the person God wants them to be, but that is not necessarily always the case, plus simply the display of good fruit in a person's life does not give a person the freedom to willfully violate the truths taught in God's Word.
believer-
I read your paragraph over and over again. I knew something was wrong. But I found nothing. But that's just it. You just said an entire paragraph of absolutely nothing.
"feet, the Bible doesn't refer to satan as the angel of light for nothing, unfortunately as I've said before he is very capable of producing fake fruit. "
the point is whether fake or no, does god give us the capacity to discern the mere appearance of something from that which is of its actual essence. jesus says over and over that we have been given the capacity. the fact that the holy spirit is here to show us all truth, validates this. along with the fact that christ lives in and has a relationship with each believer.
you have made this comment before, but you have yet to give any scripture to support your claim. please annotate with scripture.
jesus's words says we can "you will recognize them by their fruit"
Matthew 7:16
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Matthew 7:17
Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit
Matthew 7:20
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
Luke 6:44
Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers.
paul's words in romans says the same thing
Romans 1:20 (New International Version)
20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualitiesâ€â€his eternal power and divine natureâ€â€have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Daniel Paul
"It's not easy to keep up when the pages are filling up at warp 9!!! :D Still, it's fun to try."
No kidding! LOL. That's why sometimes I stop posting in a thread. I'll come back from work and I'll find the conversation I've been having with someone back on the second or third page, and everyone's forgotten about it, and moved on. LOL.
feet, the Bible doesn't refer to satan as the angel of light for nothing, unfortunately as I've said before he is very capable of producing fake fruit which can lead humans to assume a person is producing the fruit of the Spirit when in truth they are not. So once again your fruit stand doesn't hold water when you're using it to justify willfully violating God's original and only design for both marriage and sexual intimacy.
as jesus said "you will recognize them by their fruit"
is the fruit of the spirit of powers and principalities and satan the same as the fruit of the spirit of god?
there is only one holy spirit . is there any other spirit whose fruit is the same?
regardless of name if its fruit is of that of the holy spirit, then it is of god.
"You haven't been keeping up on the conversation. "
It's not easy to keep up when the pages are filling up at warp 9!!! :D Still, it's fun to try.
Grace2,
Amen . . . well said.
tliml,
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? (1John 4:20).
thelordismylight
Is the Lord really your light? I ask because you are in much darkness with all the hate you have for protestants personally.
If the Lord was really your light then you would be able to defend your Catholic beliefs in agape love. What is agape love? 1 Cor 13:4-7 tells us. A partial list is as follows: patient, kind, not boastful, not easily provoked to anger, not self-seeking, forgiving. These are qualities you don't seem to possess.
If the Lord Jesus was really in control of you then you would show forth these qualities in your communications with the Protestants when defending the teachings of the RCC.
Are you really saved? If you are, then act like it!
tliml,
You haven't been keeping up on the conversation. What does my post from Wednesday, Dec 24 @ 2:37 say? That there is only one True God, and all others are false gods.
Prophet-
Here is the world you describe. Allah and God are constantly struggling for power. They exist at the same time. Now here's what you might MEAN to say: There is only one god (God) and Allah is a separate god because he does not exist. I could understand that. But if you mean anything besides that you're wrong. The thing is, you've always said that Islam is wrong. If they're wrong how come you're admitting to the existence of Allah?
Well, I think its true what they say, the beauty of religion is you can believe as much or as little as you want.
Happy Holidays to all.
Not only does the idea that Christians and Muslims are worshiping the "same god" defy logic (yes, maths!), it flies in the face of Holy Scriptures, the Koran, faith, the outworking of faith, history, systematic theology, Christology, Soteriology, etc... The list goes on. It's a non-argument.
This argument, no , discussion, reminds me of when I was a little boy and I'd absolutely insist something I heard at school was the truth no matter what my parents said. I remember one time learning about synonyms, antonyms and homonyms. Somehow, I got mixed up and was CERTAIN that there were these things called "thenonyms." I couldn't really describe what they were, or what they did, or where they fit, but I argued for their cause without sparing an inch. Oh the pride if a 10 year old! You think it was wide then!... LOL
Anyway, I don't mean to offend anyone, but really, there is no sense in carrying on with this. YHWH and Alah are as separate as man is from a tire iron; as homonyms from thenonyms...
j, as for both sides praying to the same God during the Civil War, you're absolutely correct but the only problem with you logic is only one side got the answer they wanted and the other did not. And if you asked them they would agree they prayed to the God of the Bible only!
j, if the attributes of allah are not identical to the attributes as well as the teachings and truths we read about God in the Bible, then as Charlie Daniels says you're praying to the wrong God, there is but one God and allah is not His name.
Johnzon's post-modernistic, relativistic arguement is good. Unfortunately, it's full of holes. The God of Christianity, and the Allah are two different gods. There's no amount of "reasoning" that can change that. And people claim Christians live in a fantasy world....they should listne to jonzon.
I have to step out this evening . . . will chat with you all later. Merry Christmas!
Johnzon,
Well; I am sure you already know that Christianity is a historical faith that can be verified from both secular history and archeology . . . but since we have been discussing Islam and Christianity, consider for a moment the origin of the Koran. Muhammad claims to have received messages from God and penned down these revelations, right . . . who else heard these voices? Who else saw these visions? Do we even have one witness, or one shred of corroborating evidence it was really God speaking to Muhammad? On the other hand, the origin of the Bible spans some 1,500 years with multiple authors and yet we find a consistent testimony of real people, places, and events. There is actually a 400 year gap between the Old and New Testaments and yet they completely harmonize with one another.
Biblical prophecy is verifiable evidence that is uniquely found in the Judeo-Christian faith. For example, the prophet Daniel specifically spoke of the rise and fall of four world kingdoms that would directly affect the people of God (see Daniel 2 & 7). Any history book will confirm that these kingdoms did indeed rise and fall according to the scriptures. The Old Testament prophets also spoke with detailed accuracy of the life of the coming messiah and no one other than Jesus fulfilled these prophecies. In fact there is no other world religion that can be recognized for its historical and prophetic witness.
Believer, There interpretations may be different, but if there is only one God, then by simple logic, they are worshipping the same one. During the US Civil War, both sides prayed for different outcomes, but presumably prayed to the same God.
johnzon, both parties say there is only one person who can and should the President. Plus if you look at the qualities and attributes of allah as taught in the koran and of God as taught in the Bible you'll soon see that although there are similarities there are major differences with the major one being that the God of the Bible loved us enough to send His one and only Son, Jesus Christ to die on the cross for the sins of all mankind.
believer, no, it was obvious that there were two individuals, one from each party. Both Christianity and Islam say ther is only one creator of the universe.
Online4Him , Your not prying, and that verifiable evidence of Christianity would be?
johnzon, based on your logic McCain and Obama are the same person since both major parties only nominated one person to be their presidential candidate and both claimed that their candidate was the best and most qualified person for the position, therefore based on your logic for why the God of the Bible and the god of the koran are the same person, then McCain and Obama must be the same person as well.
Profit <Christianity and Islam are two completely different beliefs>
They have their own spins to be sure, but again share idea of one God that created the universe, therefore, by process of elimination worship the one and only creator. God/Allah may not even exist.
Profit, Here's the problem with your math, you brought in a variable that had nothing at all to do with the topic-satan. The discussion was about one God/Allah of the universe that both Christianity and Islam share. Sure there are folks that worship satan, but what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
tpique1,
Thanks . . . I have the book (Jesus Among Other gods); its a great read.
Christianity and Islam are two completely different beliefs.
john,
I'm sorry that you got upset that I blew your little "math" scenario out of the water. But it's only your fault that you can't admit that your theory is quite sophomoric. I hope that pride won't be your undoing.
PER THE TITLE: "Many Americans Say Christianity Not the Only Way to Eternal Life"
AS USUAL AMERICANS ARE WRONG...
Jesus Among Other gods
Parts 1-8
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&rlz=1B3DVFA_enUS237US251&q=ravi%20zacharias%20jesus%20among%20other%20gods&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#
johnzon,
Forgive my prying . . . if you do not want to answer I understand; but have you considered the verifiable evidence of Christianity?
Online4Him <Christianity is a verifiable faith>
Of course you do, thats fine and good for you, not everyone would agree with that however. Again, religion is a very personal thing.
wbmoore <and have come to know the truth>
Well sure, the "truth" as you see it. Again your bias, thats fine, just dont be surprised when others don't agree with your "truth".
johnzon ,
Prophet used your argument to show you the idiocy of it, you did not like it, so you try to dismiss him. That's meaningful.
Of course my beliefs are biased. I've tried other things and have come to know the truth. When one is right, it is not simply being biased, it is also being accurate.
Profit, Come back when you have something of value to add to the conversation.
johnzon,
Yes, there are measures of truth which can be found in every religion; however, like light bulbs, some are brighter than others. I personally believe that Christianity is a verifiable faith . . . not that I do not walk by faith but there are reasons to believe.
johnzon,
Really? You're the one that came up with that math, and then not adhering to it.
Online4Him <are you an agnostic . . . just curious?>
An agnostic?, I suppose I am although I don't really call myself that. I try to take lessons from many religions that which I think can make me a better person. There are lessons to be taken from Christianity, Islam and Buddhism to name but a few. I am very skeptacle of the notion of an afterlife. I certainly dont take religions very seriously.
wbmoore, You are certainly entitled to your beliefs, as bias as they are. Of course you think your religion represent the truth, otherwise why would you follow it. It doesn't mean you are correct.
Johnzon,
(Online4Him, Of course you are entitled to your beliefs, just as Muslims are.)
Right, I just thought it was best to allow both Muslims and Christians to define what they truly believe . . . are you an agnostic . . . just curious?
(If the typical Christian on CP had their way, America would be a Christian theocracy.)
I for one disagree . . . our constitution clearly states (Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof) . . . it is obvious that the framers of the constitution wanted to avoid all of the religious and social ills which plagued Europe for centuries. Though morality is evidently interwoven with civil law; I believe that education remains the best path for influencing the citizens of our nation . . .
OK Profit, So math is not your forte.
You can claim that if two religions claim to be monotheistic then they must worship the same deity. However, that is not the case.
The True God is not Allah. Just because religions claim to be monotheistic does not mean what they think is God is in fact God. It just means someone is wrong.
Not all religions are the same, nor do they worship the same being.
There is only one way to be with God, and that is through faith in Jesus Christ who was sent by God the Father to suffer and die for our sins.
johnzon,
You asked "Where did I say anything about satan?"
But you said earlier "Both Christianity and Islam share the same God, heres why:
1. Both religions are monotheistic.
2. Both religions claim their God to be the one and only God of the Universe.
Do the math."
So I did the math. Satanism is monotheistic. And they also believe their god is the god of the universe. So you math adds up to allah,god, and satan are all the same god.
Online4Him, Of course you are entitled to your beliefs, just as Muslims are.
johnzon,
While both Muslims and Christians believe that there is one God; the question remains: Has God revealed himself and if so, how? I believe that Christianity has verifiable evidence which when compared to Islam . . . well; lets just say that Islam does not even come close.
Profit, Where did I say anything about satan? Looks like your struggling with God=Allah. Give it some more thought, and you might see the logic if you can get past your Christian bias..
Online4Him, I agree with you on this point. I have discussed religion with Muslims and they, like Christians and Jews, believe they have it right, everyone else is WRONG. Most religions believe they have the ONLY correct set of beliefs. Most Muslims probably would not accept Allah is the same Christian God just as most Christians dont accept their God the same as Allah, but logic says otherwise for the aforementioned reasons.
johnzon,
Have you ever spoken to a Muslim and presented your assumption that Christianity and Islam worship the same God . . . ? I dont think you have becasue no Muslim would ever agree with you . . .
looks like I need to repeat this:
God = Allah
Both Christianity and Islam share the same God, heres why:
1. Both religions are monotheistic.
2. Both religions claim their God to be the one and only God of the Universe.
Do the math.
It is true that the two religions have different interpretations of God, but does not negate the fact that they worship the same God/Allah for the aforementioned reasons.
Every religion have biases towards their religion. There is a certain arrogance that followers have towards their religion which one would expect, thats why its difficult for most Christians to accept that their God would also be the same God as in Islam if one accepts that only one God exists, which both religions claim.
Christians, Muslims, Jews, Mormons, Native Americans, Scietntologsits, Buddhists, Hindus all have their reasons for believing. The world would be a much better place if everyone would simply accept that religious belief is a very private matter, and that an individual should be free to practice their religion without harassment and oppression form those that hold other views. The founding fathers got it right -keep religion out of government.
johnzon,
So what you are saying is that Allah, God, and Satan are the same god?
mtgburrell
<but Americans cannot be forced by their government to live by the dictates of the Bible.>
Thankfully we have the First Amendment to keep religion out of government. If the typical Christian on CP had their way, America would be a Christian theocracy.
"God always has a way of attracting the rebels,"
Sites like this are the new mission field.
"Christianity isn't intolerant, you are. "
Said the pot to the kettle!!! :D
Another point (which might apply to almost all of the columns on CP: Iranians (for instance) can be forced by their government to live by the dictates of the Koran, but Americans cannot be forced by their government to live by the dictates of the Bible. Why is this idea so hard to grasp for some people?
Some of this chest pounding on the part of today's Christians reminds me of the supposed quotes from the old Roman elite as a new religion, Christianity, was overtaking everything they held sacred and valuable about the ancient Roman pantheon of gods. I don't know if there is anything "good" left these days from the old Roman religion. I do know that much good will always remain of Christianity - even if it ceases to be the dominant religion in the U.S or other countries on earth.
"What part of monotheism dont you understand. Again, applying logic, since both religions are monotheistic (one God), they are worshipping the same God, because only one God would exist, its not complicated"
Islam claims to follow a god. But this does not mean it is God they follow. An analogy would be if someone claims to be from Los Estados Unidos, and someone else claimed to be from the United States of America. There is only one United States of America. But when details were checked, the first person, while believing to be from the USA, was in fact, from Mexico. Its close, but is not in fact the USA. Just because there is a claim made does not make that claim true, even if the person believes it. The proof is in what God did through sending His Son Jesus Christ to suffer and die for our sins, that who so ever believes is saved and will receive an inheritance of eternal life in God's kingdom.
As to whether Islam worships the true God, 1 John 2:22-23 tells us,
22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist - he denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true - even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
To deny Christ is to deny God, thus Islam (which denies Jesus as Messiah) does not worship God.
I always wonder what attracts some people to this forum? God always has a way of attracting the rebels, sinners, Pharasies, hypocrites, apostates, atheists, agnostics... you name it! Here you find the name Jesus, and even now, 2000 years later, He's still a stumbling block, He's still foolishness, He's still the biggest scandal. I have seen so many people who speak like they hate God, and they sit around and regurgitate the same old arguments for whatever reason... and then they disappear for a while. Has anyone ever been converted to atheism here? Has anyone ever been taken from God? Has anyone experienced that eternal seal of the Holy Spirit being shattered? Has the local CP atheist brought any of you to the true freedom of... um.... what would they even call it? Reason? To the world, Jesus is still as effective a light as He was when He walked the earth. He still attracts the moths! I love the variety of people that show up here... viewing it all is like a stroll through the Gospels. Only instead of seeing Christ Himself, I get to witness the continuing incarnation of Christ in most of you! The only illusion that these infidels have ever shattered for me is the idea that their world view contains an iota of contentedness or true peace. The contending of these lost souls for their worldly perspective only seems to cause my heart to break a little more each time I read something... only causes me to love a little more, and to increase in faith. They cause me to study the Bible harder, and to pray a little more. Amen! There is definitely a time for discernment, but there too is a time for contending for the faith once delivered to the saint; a time for sowing; and a time for testing... God bless you all. Good night.
To clarify...there is only one True God. The others are false gods.
johnzon,
So what you are saying is that Allah, God, and Satan are the same god?
Christianity isn't intolerant, you are.
If anyone is struggling with my last reference, it can be found in John 3:16
Christianity is far from intolerant. On the contrary. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that WHOSOEVER believes on him shall not parish but have everlasting life. The operative word hear is WHOSOEVER.
Oh, you know what? Your post gave me an idea for a sermon. I'll tell a bishop that I know that it's a good idea. It will be based on intolerance.
no conceit just fact
and God bless you.
phant-
God bless your conceited attitude.
There seems to be much dialog as to many Gods. Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc. etc. The fact is there is only one GOD. The God of Abraham, the God of Issac, and the God of Jacob. This God has shown to the world that he is the only God. He has recorded his word through man and it is irrefutable. Because many false teachings and beliefs are in the world they do not stop the truth from being the truth. God has a name and his name is Jesus. Praise his holy name.
To clarify, that was a prediction of what Prophet will post within the next twelve hours.
Prediction:
:D Prophet
_________________________________________________________
John-
No, not exactly. You see, our God is GOD, but Allah is the devil. Thus we are called to hold a crusade and kill every single muslim. I hate muslims. I hate them. I hate anyone that does not agree with me or at least periodically thump a bible every half hour!
Prophet-
So since you acknowledge the existence of your own wife AND the wife next door, that means that both God AND Allah, two SEPARATE gods, both exist? Doesn't that contradict both religions? YOUR logic is flawed, my bible-thumping friend.
OK Profit, so what you are saying is that there are two gods, one for the Christians and one for Muslims. Hmm, two different Gods, now that is interesting. Now I see where you are coming from. Do the two Gods talk or fight over whose in control or have some sort of working relationship? Is there power sharing or does one God have more power over the other? Did both Gods work together in creating the universe? I think the reason am confused on all this is because each religion claims that their God, is The God of the universe, as far as we know there is but one universe we exist in and therefore only one God in said universe, which lead me to conclude they were worshipping the same God. Can you see how one might be a bit confused on all of this, even for an adult?
Hey, I only have one wife. So does my neighbor. Wow...we must have the same wife. John, are serious in your attempt at logical arguments? Your opinion that they must both be serving the same god because they both only serve one god is so far removed from being serious, that I find it hard to believe you are even adult.
john,
Yes I have explained, but you ignore.
But they do have one thing in common. They both worship one god (monotheistic). Satanist worship only one god...does that make it the same god? But apart from being montheistic, they are serving different gods.
Blacksho89
<The analogy is that just because a Muslim TELLS you that Allah is the God of Abraham doesn't make it true.>
It doesn't matter, both Christianity and Islam are monotheistic, therfore there is only one and the same God for them to worship, God = Allah,
Profit
<I hate to burst your little self-created religion>
What? Dont know where you got that from.
<but the God of the Christian faith and the god of the Islamic faith are different.>
You keep repeating that, but you have not explained how two monotheistic religions worship different Gods, when only one God exists according to Christianity and Islam.
What part of monotheism dont you understand. Again, applying logic, since both religions are monotheistic (one God), they are worshipping the same God, because only one God would exist, its not complicated. Part of the problem here is religion has little to do with logic. Religious belief is in the eye of the beholder- you choose to believe what you want, don't need logic, dont need evidence.
I am laughing out loud when people wrote that Allah of Islamlands is the same with our living God of Israel.
From Indonesia with 200 million+ Muslims, MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you my brothers and sisters who shares faith, hope and love in Christ Jesus and His resurrection.
Shalom Aleichem
A link to this article has been posted on the website GoodNewsNow.com.
freespirit,
And you're a figment of my imagination. :-)
johnzon: If I told you I was a French chef, and then gave you bad sushi, you would then believe that Parisian cuisine consisted of rotting fish.
The analogy is that just because a Muslim TELLS you that Allah is the God of Abraham doesn't make it true.
All religions are peoples interpretation of who God is and what life is all about.
(doesn't matter if Muslims don't accept it, still one and the same God)
Let me know what type of response you recieve as you share this with any Muslim . . .
johnzon,
I hate to burst your little self-created religion, but the God of the Christian faith and the god of the Islamic faith are different.
Christianity says that God had a Son, Jesus Christ, who came to this world to die for us.
Islam says God had no son.
If they are both the same "god", then God is schizophrenic.
Online4Him, Christians have their Trinity, doesn't matter if Muslims don't accept it, still one and the same God/Allah they worship. Simple logic, thats all.
Johnzon,
Sorry, Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God . . . why? The Muslims reject the Trinity; the belief in the Trinity is essential to the Christian faith . . . and without the Trinity, there is no incarnation of God in the Person of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ, there is no salvation for sin. Allah is not triune and does not have a son. Therefore, Muslims are not worshipping the same God of Christianity.
ID4234
<Islam converts by the sword.>
Christianity converts by threat of eternal torture.
ID4234
<In addition, the Christian God is a God of love>
Is this the same God that's sending billions of people to a place of torture for an eternity for NOT believing? Doesn't sound like a God of love to me, makes Hilter and Stalin look pretty tame by comparison.
God = Allah, one in the same in the two monotheistic religions, Christianity and Islam.
Christians and Muslim interpret God differently, thats true for all religions. That doesn't change the fact that they would worship the same God as both are monotheistic- there is only one God, simple logic thats all. Would also be the same God for the Jews, again simple logic.
The commission was not to make converts but to go and make disciples. Followers of Jesus Christ and his teachings. Sometimes the process of learning is long time coming.
Christianity says that God had a Son, Jesus Christ, who came to this world to die for us.
Islam says God had no son.
If they are both the same "god", then God is schizophrenic.
delight, PHEW!! I pretty much thought that's what you meant, but thanks for clearing that up, believer
Believer and Forgiven... From yesterday's posting;
definitely 'a slip of the fingers' :)
I think faster than I type;
not all Catholics are in error OF worshipping idols.
they are always in trouble BY worshipping idols.
Thanks for the correction; I should proof read more and check back more often!
To johnzon
Just because they are both singular does not dictate that they are the same. Allah was one of many gods worshipped in ancient lands of the Mideast. Allah was the moon god. Mohammed popularized this name as the one god Muslims would worship. The Living God of the Bible is Elohim, the God of the Jews and the Christians, incarnated in Jesus the Messiah. There's a huge difference. In addition, the Christian God is a God of love. It is hard to make a case that Allah is a god of love given the hate-filled passages in the Koran and the practices based on those passages of modern Muslims. Yes, I realize not all follow the hate-inspired passages, but still, Islam converts by the sword. The Living God wants the hearts of men and women freely given. Huge difference.
Prophet,
Both Christianity and Islam are religions identified with Abraham, both worship a single god, so logic dictates God & Allah are one in the same.
Please explain why you think they are not the same entity.
PER THE TITLE: "MANY AMERICANS" ARE WRONG...AS USUAL.
Jesus Among Other gods
Parts 1-8
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&rlz=1B3DVFA_enUS237US251&q=ravi%20zacharias%20jesus%20among%20other%20gods&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#
johnzon,
You really should study before making that kind of statement. That's not correct.
FYI
God = Allah, one in the same in the two monotheistic religions, Christianity and Islam.
My favorite songs of his are "Asleep In The Light" and "Make My Life A Prayer To You" and "You Love The World (And You're Avoiding Me)"
I looooooov Keith Green! He is awesome! I have the song books with all his songs. I perform some of them from time to time.
"drawing of a guy refusing to bow down to some "
I think you are refering to "No Compromise" which I think was his second album. The song was either on his first or second album.
I'm impressed! No that many people remember or know much about Keith Green.
And all those people who think there is another way to Heaven without going through Jesus Christ would be dead wrong.
No one can come to the Father except through the Son. End of Subject.
If any Catholic or Protestant or newline Evangelical says there is more than one way to Heaven, then take them aside and start discipling them on the spot. All churches need to do a better job in educating their flock.
An ignorant Christian is one of the most dangerous things.
They lead many to perdition by their willful ignorance.
Jesus is the only way to salvation.
atn5, although I can see you're having a few technical problems, your posts are truly on target and I enjoy your very practical and biblical approach to these issues and if you are new to CP welcome aboard, believer
AllThingsNew, I like your handle! In fact, that is the title of my first book published by PublishAmerica in 2005. It's available on-line: All Things New by Dr. John H. Boyd.
Yes I am a Jew,
The Koran has an ongoing mandate to conquer the earth for Allah. Jesus does not have the same mandate, so this is a very definative point about all religions not being equal. Jesus desires that all would come to Him for eternal life. And far from being an exclusive club, eternal life in Christ is open to ALL. But the point of this article speaks to Jesus exclusivity, and although He IS the only Way, everyone can come.
Hi DP
That Keith Green song, does it come from the album which on the cover shows a drawing of a guy refusing to bow down to some creature whilst everybody does? You'll guess that I can't remember the name of the LP (!!) I guess. My favourite album of his was Songs For The Shepeard,but I tend to think it was most peoples.
Steve
...Gods best for you, and that you will be blessed because of it.
(fourth times a charm. Stupid ASCII)
Thank God Prosciencezz is smart. Makes believers on both sides keep sharp. If you dont know what you believe, Prosciencezz will make you WANT to know it.
Pro said he is accountable to his neighbors? WHY? If theres no ultimate Authority, who cares? Your morality is what you make it, so have at it (as long as you dont get caught by the stupid American laws that are largely based on Judeo Christian values).
And you have a reputation to protect? What does that REALLY mean? And to survive in this world a person has to be trusted? Gangsters have a reputation to protect too, and it might include killing some unsuspecting person to prove they can be trusted to their gang. I dont think reputation is an accurate gauge of moral responsibility either, because it is based on whatever an individual thinks is useful to them.
Atheism is seen as totally liberating. Being able to think, value, and believe in whatever way you want. But what if there WERE only ONE way? I can put grape juice in my gas tank, but that wont make my car go. In fact, it might wreck the engine. Fortunately, God is the ultimate mechanic. And He loves to do the fixing, if we will bring ourselves to him. And He knows how to make life really run good.
I love atheists in the same way Jesus loved me before I said yes to his free offer of eternal life. Jesus said that he didnt come into the world to condemn the world, but so the world through Him might be saved. Jesus doesnt threaten torture. BIG POINT I think the offer of life with the Holy Spirit NOW is more appealing than the possibility of hell. But both are valid. Those who decry how mean or exclusive God is forget the simple way that He has made to get right with Him and gain life. There IS only one way, yet God has made it simple to have eternal life.
Johnzon said that you dont have to believe in God to be good. There are plenty of non-believers out there that are good by most standards, but they are not reading the Owners Manual (for optimum operation), they have probably taken cues from the Judeo Christian culture around them, and so far, that has worked.
And Pro says, The Magic Fairy of the Bible is a bloodthirsty savage who belongs in prison. The gospels (the accounts of Jesus life) dont look like that at all. Im not discounting the OT wars (they happened then, they happen now), but bloodlust is not an ongoing mandate of Jesus (and incidentally, it IS an ongoing mandate of Islam, and yes, Ive read the Koran). Nothing Jesus did or said indicates a hateful warlike demeanor. Start with the book of John, and you might have a different perspective on the bible.
Im going to pray for you, Pro. And I dont wish you any ill at all, or even think atheists are crazy. As a matter of fact, Im going to pray that God’s best for you, and that you will be blessed because of it.
Thank God Prosciencezz is smart. Makes believers on both sides keep sharp. If you dont know what you believe, Prosciencezz will make you WANT to know it.
Pro said he is accountable to his neighbors? WHY? If theres no ultimate Authority, who cares? Your morality is what you make it, so have at it (as long as you dont get caught by the stupid American laws that are largely based on Judeo Christian values).
And you have a reputation to protect? What does that REALLY mean? And to survive in this world a person has to be trusted? Gangsters have a reputation to protect too, and it might include killing some unsuspecting person to prove they can be trusted to their gang. I dont think reputation is an accurate gauge of moral responsibility either, because it is based on whatever an individual thinks is useful to them.
Atheism is seen as totally liberating. Being able to think, value, and believe in whatever way you want. But what if there WERE only ONE way? I can put grape juice in my gas tank, but that wont make my car go. In fact, it might wreck the engine. Fortunately, God is the ultimate mechanic. And He loves to do the fixing, if we will bring ourselves to him. And He knows how to make life really run good.
I love atheists in the same way Jesus loved me before I said yes to his free offer of eternal life. Jesus said that he didnt come into the world to condemn the world, but so the world – through Him – might be saved. Jesus doesnt threaten torture. BIG POINT I think the offer of life with the Holy Spirit – NOW – is more appealing than the possibility of hell. But both are valid. Those who decry how mean or exclusive God is forget the simple way that He has made to get right with Him and gain life. There IS only one way, yet God has made it simple to have eternal life.
Johnzon said that you dont have to believe in God to be good. There are plenty of non-believers out there that are good by most standards, but they are not reading the Owners Manual (for optimum operation), they have probably taken cues from the Judeo Christian culture around them, and so far, that has worked.
And Pro says, The Magic Fairy of the Bible is a bloodthirsty savage who belongs in prison. The gospels (the accounts of Jesus life) dont look like that at all. Im not discounting the OT wars (they happened then, they happen now), but bloodlust is not an ongoing mandate of Jesus (and incidentally, it IS an ongoing mandate of Islam, and yes, Ive read the Koran). Nothing Jesus did or said indicates a hateful warlike demeanor. Start with the book of John, and you might have a different perspective on the bible.
Im going to pray for you, Pro. And I dont wish you any ill at all, or even think atheists are crazy. As a matter of fact, Im going to pray that God’s best for you, and that you will be blessed because of it.
Thank God Prosciencezz is smart. Makes believers on both sides keep sharp. If you dont know what you believe, Prosciencezz will make you WANT to know it.
Pro said he is accountable to his neighbors? WHY? If there’s no ultimate Authority, who cares? Your morality is what you make it, so have at it (as long as you dont get caught by the stupid American laws that are largely based on Judeo-Christian values).
And you have a reputation to protect? What does that REALLY mean? And “to survive in this world a person has to be trusted.†Gangsters have a reputation to protect too, and it might include killing some unsuspecting person to prove they can be “trusted†to their gang. I dont think “reputation†is an accurate gauge of moral responsibility either, because it is based on whatever an individual thinks is useful to them.
Atheism is seen as totally liberating: being able to think, value, and believe in whatever way you want. But what if there WERE only “one way?†I can put grape juice in my gas tank, but that won’t make my car go. In fact, it might wreck the engine. Fortunately, God’s the ultimate mechanic. And He loves to do the fixing, if we will bring ourselves to him. And He knows how to make life really run good.
I love atheists in the same way Jesus loved me before I said “yes†to his free offer of eternal life. Jesus said that he didn’t come into the world to condemn the world, but so the world – through Him – might be saved. Jesus doesnt threaten torture. BIG POINT: I think the offer of life with the Holy Spirit – NOW – is more appealing than the possibility of hell. But both are valid. Those who decry how “mean†or “exclusive†God is forget the simple way that He has made to get right with Him and gain life. There IS only one way, yet God has made it simple to have eternal life.
Johnzon said that you dont have to believe in God to be good. There are plenty of non-believers out there that are “good†by most standards, but they are not reading the Owners Manual (for optimum operation), they have probably taken cues from the Judeo-Christian culture around them, and so far, that has worked.
And Pro says, The Magic Fairy of the Bible is a bloodthirsty savage who belongs in prison. The gospels (the accounts of Jesus life) dont look like that at all. Im not discounting the OT wars (they happened then, they happen now), but bloodlust is not an ongoing mandate of Jesus (and incidentally, it IS an ongoing mandate of Islam, and yes, Ive read the Koran). Nothing Jesus did or said indicates a hateful warlike demeanor. Start with the book of John, and you might have a different perspective on the bible.
Im going to pray for you, Pro. And I dont wish you any ill at all, or even think atheists are crazy. As a matter of fact, Im going to pray that God’s best for you, and that you will be blessed because of it.
Thank God Prosciencezz is smart. Makes believers on both sides keep sharp. If you don’t know what you believe, Prosciencezz will make you WANT to know it.
Pro said he is accountable to his neighbors? WHY? If there’s no ultimate Authority, who cares? Your morality is what you make it, so have at it (as long as you don’t get caught by the stupid American laws that are largely based on Judeo-Christian values).
And you have a reputation to protect? What does that REALLY mean? And “to survive in this world a person has to be trusted.†Gangsters have a reputation to protect too, and it might include killing some unsuspecting person to prove they can be “trusted†to their gang. I don’t think “reputation†is an accurate gauge of moral responsibility either, because it is based on whatever an individual thinks is useful to them.
Atheism is seen as totally liberating: being able to think, value, and believe in whatever way you want. But what if there WERE only “one way?†I can put grape juice in my gas tank, but that won’t make my car go. In fact, it might wreck the engine. Fortunately, God’s the ultimate mechanic. And He loves to do the fixing, if we’ll bring ourselves to him. And He knows how to make life really run good.
I love atheists in the same way Jesus loved me before I said “yes†to his free offer of eternal life. Jesus said that he didn’t come into the world to condemn the world, but so the world – through Him – might be saved. Jesus doesn’t threaten torture. BIG POINT: I think the offer of life with the Holy Spirit – NOW – is more appealing than the possibility of hell. But both are valid. Those who decry how “mean†or “exclusive†God is forget the simple way that He has made to get right with Him and gain life. There IS only one way, yet God has made it simple to have eternal life.
Johnzon said that you don’t have to believe in God to be good. There are plenty of non-believers out there that are “good†by most standards, but they are not reading the Owners Manual (for optimum operation), they have probably taken cues from the Judeo-Christian culture around them, and so far, that has worked.
And Pro says, “The Magic Fairy of the Bible is a bloodthirsty savage who belongs in prison.†The gospels (the accounts of Jesus’ life) don’t look like that at all. I’m not discounting the OT wars (they happened then, they happen now), but bloodlust is not an ongoing mandate of Jesus (and incidentally, it IS an ongoing mandate of Islam, and yes, I’ve read the Koran). Nothing Jesus did or said indicates a hateful warlike demeanor. Start with the book of John, and you might have a different perspective on the bible.
I’m going to pray for you, Pro. And I don’t wish you any ill at all, or even think atheists are crazy. As a matter of fact, I’m going to pray that God’s best for you, and that you will be blessed because of it.
DRJ,
Amen . . . well said!
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things (2Thessalonians 2:3-5).
Well said, DRJ! 1 John chapter 4 even identifies that spirit. We have cultural Christians who have simply adopted the customs and traditons instead of born-again believers!
"Sixty-five percent of all Christians say there are multiple paths to eternal life..." This is a no-brainer. It simply means that, of the 3000 people surveyed, 65% of those that professed to be Christians are not Christians. A CHRISTIAN is a person who believes and practices the teachings of CHRIST! A denial of any of the teachings of Jesus, therefore, removes a person from any consideration of being a Christian. Jesus is either Lord of all, or not Lord at all! If you believe there are other ways to eternal life you are 50 % correct. The eternal life YOU are referencing, however, is really eternal suffering apart from God. If you deny God's Son (including His teachings), He will deny you before His Father in heaven. Surrender to full acceptance of Jesus as your ONLY Lord and Savior today!
No true believer should be surprised at this survey taken from 3000 people. Jesus spoke of a time when there would be a great falling away. Falling away from what?...you may ask. Falling away from believing that Jesus is the Way, the Life, and the Truth. God's truth is this: Jesus Christ is the only way to eternal life with Him. Jesus also said that in the last days there would be many christs. That meant many who put their faith in false christs...false means of salvation. Jesus also posed the rhetorical question, "When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on the earth?" Know this, that the actual number of true believers in the United States (as revealed in this survey) is smaller than any of you can imagine! Wed are now in that time when true believers, when they attempt to evangelize with the TRUE GOSPEL message in this country, will be mocked, persecuted, and even assasinated by what now passes for the Christian churches. The true Gospel is this, that God, the Creator of all things, desires to have a personal, eternal relationship with every person on earth, through His Son, Jesus Christ. The mission of Christians is to share that message with everyone until Jesus returns for His Church. His Church consists of those who are actively sharing His Gospel and discipling others to actively share His Gospel. Amen anybody?
yes, none of us are surprised by Americans who believe this, but many are disappointed that people who claim to be Christians don't considering Christ declared it Himself about Himself.
yes, long time no see, before I forget I hope you are having a Happy Hannukah! Plus, I'm still praying you will come to see that Jesus Christ is indeed Yeshua Meshiah, I hope I spelled that right.
Deight wrote: "not all Catholics are in error by worshipping idols"
opps, perhaps a slip of the fingers? ;)
Wow, this actually counts as "news"?
To start with, aside from the fact that this is preposterous in general, is it really a shock that people might disagree with the claim that Christianity is the only way to eternal life? There are after all lots of other religions which don't give a damn about what the new testament says no acknowledge it as carrying any more weight than any other book of parables.
People should be wary of those who preach too hard that eternal salvation can only come from Christianity. Sounds a lot like those other guys...Muslim Fundamentalists...
Guess what I found!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ZUC1a4g_E
"People no longer believe in hell or satan."
Anyone remember the Keith Green song about satan which said "no one believes in me anymore!!!)?
delight, by chance did you mean to say of as opposed to by with regards to worshipping idols, if not please explain what you mean, thanks.
vsedriver;
To whom do you address your prayers to, Jesus or Mary? Do you say the rosary?
I believe there are many Christians who go to Catholic Tradition; not all Catholics are in error by worshipping idols but only those who believe that Mary and not Jesus Chrst is their advocate bewteen the Father and the pentinent.
Also, to be sure, Catholics must study the Bible and not just blindly follow the Catholic Tradition or accept without question what the Catholic Institution deems true. All Christians must test by Scripture any and all doctrine they hold true, no matter what tradition or denomination they hail from.
thelamb_777 said, "We have let a lot of things go, the worship of the many idols in the Catholic Faith whom declare themselves as Christians. If the Catholics can worship Mary, and St Paul"
What Catholic church worships Mary and St. Paul? I'm a Catholic and have never worshiped Mary or St. Paul. Jesus is my savior.
prosciencezz
How can anyone hope to explain the love of God to someone who chooses to reject it. When I read your comments I see a stubborn little boy stamping his feet and screaming no,no,no. No one insults you, we try to help you see the love God has for you.Love by the way is not warm fuzzy feelings. Love is a verb. I will continue to pray for you that the Holy Spirit will prepare your heart because you have been hearing the truth of the Gospel.It is God's will that none perish and that all come to repentance may his will be done.
Faith in Christ Jesus is the only way to Eternal Life. I read John 14:6 and compare that Word of God to other views and reason. I choose John 14:6
The ticket to the eternal reward is in the mind of the beholder. Click your shoes together three times and..........
I cannot see anyway a Muslim who murders in the name of a false god can ever enter Heaven. My God is a forgiving
one but it is against His Comandments.
Johnny,
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:21-23
Doesnt Christ tell us that "many" "Christians" will also find themselves in Hell?
Christians...in Hell?
http://polemos.net/Articles/Christians%20in%20Hell.html
I agree. But it's the Christians I'm talking about. I remember a poll taken a while back where the number of Christians who didn't believe in heaven and hell, or satan was huge. Though I don't know how you can call yourself a Christian and not believe in hell, when Jesus talked about it.
Prophet,
I heard it said once or twice that Satan doesn't go after those that are already his.
In my opinion, hell isn't preached enough. People no longer believe in hell or satan. And that is a scary place to be. If you don't believe your enemy exists, how can you fight him?
Hey...proscience.... It looks like Paul wrote a response to your posts about 2000 years ago....
1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
I guess that about sums it up. I guess any statement which can be so easily addressed 2000 years before you ask it must not be all that.... :D
I don't know that our pastor has preached on hell in the 10+ years I've been in this church. After all, Jesus is about saving people from their sin, separating them from their sin and giving them a new life of hope and contentment. Only a disobedient person responds to punishment.
Just because someone says they are "pro science" doesn't mean they are scientific themselves. Many people use science as their religion in an attempt to comfort themselves.
Just as with this article...just because you go by the name of a religion doesn't mean you actually believe it enough to live it. Instead it is used to insult people. In short, it appears proscience is nothing more than a Bob Joneser of the scientific world.
(Take away the fear, take away the threats, and Christianity would be extinct in less than a year.)
This is wishful thinking my friend . . . it is not fear but the love of Christ which changes the hearts of men and women.
"Normal people laugh at this nonsense. "
I think arguing against nonsense is more nonsense than any nonsense one could hope to make sense of....
At least we view you as valuable enough to God for Him to have your sins paid for. The problem is you don't view yourself as a sinner. You have ruled out the concept of sin and use science as a religion. It must comfort you late at night.
"In the torments of Hell there is something that is good, namely, the execution of divine justice. There is justice to be found in Hell..."
-Tomas Watson from The Doctrine of Repentance
http://polemos.net/Quotes-%20Eternal%20Punishment,%20Hell,%20Wrath%20of%20God.html
I am still waiting for some educated arguments from proscience. So far all I've heard is sophomoric insults. My wife works with scientists. They are waaaaay more professional and educated in their discussions.
proscience,
"The Christian Post = The Christian Insane Asylum"
Insane Asylum? That's why you fit in here so well....
The Christian Post = The Christian Insane Asylum
Come on prosciencezz, you know that you are the one pretending.
Do Atheists Exist?
http://polemos.net/Do%20Atheists%20Exist.html
Your devil is another cartoon character. I thought this was the 21st century. Devils and holy spooks belong in the Dark Ages, or cartoons on Saturday morning TV.
Some people never recover from their childhood brainwashing. They live their entire lives in fear of an imaginary barbarian god. It's pathetic.
The devil has a lot of people blinded.
proscience,
Wow. And I thought you were educated. Of all the Christians I know (hundreds), they all are Christians because of the love God has shown them. You need to be more intelligent in your arguments and not resort to childish biases.
"Christians who threaten people with the wrath of their invisible friend are only proving their religion would go extinct if not for threats and fear."
There are some people who obey the laws of our land because they want to, and some because they are afraid of the consequences. Neither will make our laws and government go extinct.
shooter38, what's your point? Am I suppose to be impressed by your Holy Spook cartoon character? Are you trying to justify Christian threats of torture in their imaginary hell?
Take away the fear, take away the threats, and Christianity would be extinct in less than a year.
Normal people laugh at this nonsense. Christians think threatening torture is a good way to recruit new members for their insane religion. Well, guess what? It doesn't work. Christians who threaten people with the wrath of their invisible friend are only proving their religion would go extinct if not for threats and fear. Christians are also proving how hopelessly insane they are. They are also showing how immoral they are. I bet many Christians are ashamed of the Christian extremists who think threatening torture is a good idea.
Prosciencezz-- Just wanted to thank you for proving a statement I made in another thread. "If the Holy Spirit doesn't prepare a heart to receive the truth of the gospel you might as well talk to a wall"
Thanks again:)
prosciencezz , As you know, the cornerstone of most religions is based on fear and retribution. The vast majority of people are religious out of selfishness for the aforementioned reasons, thats easy to see here on CP.
"Many Americans going to hell unless they repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior..."
Normal people laugh at this nonsense. Christians think threatening torture is a good way to recruit new members for their insane religion. Well, guess what? It doesn't work. Christians who threaten people with the wrath of their invisible friend are only proving their religion would go extinct if not for threats and fear. Christians are also proving how hopelessly insane they are. They are also showing how immoral they are. I bet many Christians are ashamed of the Christian extremists who think threatening torture is a good idea.
Pro,
Is it his invisibility that troubles you or is it the fact that all of us will be held accountable for the choices we have made?
"Translation: If you don't have the same insane beliefs I have, my invisible friend is going to torture you."
You're the one arguing against something you don't believe exists! Now THAT's funny! :D
"Many Americans going to hell unless they repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior..."
Translation: If you don't have the same insane beliefs I have, my invisible friend is going to torture you.
Then Christians wonder why everyone laughs at them.
"disgusting book is full of childish stories, genocide, and insane gibberish."
Sounds like an accurate reflection of the on-going human condition to me....
"The Bible makes people stupid. It belongs in the trash."
God became flesh and dwelt among us. It has been my experience that all people are stupid. It doesn't take any reading material to help us get to where we already are. After all, if we're so smart then why is the world in such a mess? Coveting. We want what we do not have. We want the oil, the power, the money. Oh, we hide our coveting behind all kinds of things like humanitarianism, religion, affluence. The Bible says coveting is a sin. So, if people actually OBEYED the Bible and loved their neighbor as themselves and were content in all circumstances (as Paul wrote) I think people would be a bit less stupid and the world a bit better.
They'd be less bitter to.
"Every reference to God is fiction."
You just refered to him so your post is fiction.
Many Americans say Christianity Not the only way to eternal life?... the headline should have read... Many Americans going to hell unless they repent of their sins and put their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior...
pro,
Lets try to be nice . . .
Good night.
Have a Merry Christmas!
Enjoy your life in the Dark Ages.
(Actually, the Apostle Paul cleared up the legalistic keeping of the Sabbath)
Many apply this to keeping either the Sabbath or Sunday, but this is incorrect. To begin with, neither (Sabbath) nor (Sunday) is found in the entire chapter. The chapter begins, (Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.) Romans 14:1 (KJV). The NKJV reads, (disputes over doubtful things.) Thus the initial context of Romans 14 is (doubtful things,) and is not a discussion of the Ten Commandments. The (Big Ten) are not (doubtful,) but exceedingly clear, written with the finger of God on two tables of stone.
Well, do not take my word for it: Here are a few well respected Bible Commentaries that comment on Romans 14:5. Adam Clarkes Commentary on the Bible, Romans 14:5 - One man esteemeth one day above another: (Reference is made here to the Jewish institutions, and especially their festivals; such as the Passover, Pentecost, feast of tabernacles, new moons, jubilee, etc. . . . Now, all types are intended to continue in full force till the antitype, or thing signified, take place; consequently, the Sabbath will continue in force till the consummation of all things).
Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible, Romans 14:5: (The discussion had reference only to the special customs of the (Jews,) to the rites and practices which (they) would attempt to impose on the Gentiles, and not to any questions which might arise among Christians as (Christians.) The inquiry pertained to (meats,) and festival observances among the Jews, and to their scruples about partaking of the food offered to idols, etc.; and there is no more propriety in supposing that the subject of the Lords day is introduced here than that he advances principles respecting (baptism) and (the Lords supper.)
Methodist founder John Wesley declared the truth when he wrote: (This handwriting of ordinances) our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross (Colossians 2:14). But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.) John Wesley, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221-222.
mr. science;
Do you have scientific proof of your allegations? NOPE! So it's mere opinion.
"The Bible is and has been a validated respectable historical source."
Every reference to God is fiction. Genesis is fiction. Every miracle is fiction. The disgusting book is full of childish stories, genocide, and insane gibberish. The Bible makes people stupid. It belongs in the trash.
and...
rolln, reread my last post
Johnny;
Why are you afraid of labels. I'm proud to be a Christian and it appears that our resident atheist is certainly proud of his.
A humanist is simply someone that makes up his own definition of his belief system - in essence, his own little god. I say atheist because you don't believe in an afterlife. By the way, most religions (especially the major 4 religions of the world) have an afterlife interpretation.
Rolln, <at best, make you a humanist/atheist.>
How about keeping the labels for yourself. I have wasted enough time with "your type".
You are a nasty little chap.
mr. science;
I hope you're a bit better with your science than you are with your history. The Bible is and has been a validated respectable historical source. For you to mock its content is simple ignorance.
But I think I got my answer: No, you haven't read through the Bible.
prosciencezz, I'm not sure I would consider myself an atheist, because I cant prove a negative, but I'm not religious. Most of religion does seem a bit silly to me , but I do think there are some things that can be learned from the different religions of the world, not from a God standpoint necessarily, but how to treat others (the more positive messages). However, I find religious interpretation (Bible, Koran) to be destructive by some - justification of slavery, homophobia as two examples.
johnny -
Study? Ummm. Even if you spent your entire life studying just one religion, you may have a respectable hold of whatever religion you've studied. However, to try and "study" the countless religious that have graced humankind seems to put in in quite a predicament. It takes me 2 years to get through the Bible with some degree of study - certainly not in depth. Though I respect you earnest attempt to claim to study "many" different religions would, at best, make you a humanist/atheist.
"Have you read the Bible?"
Every time I try to read it I'm disgusted with its insane gibberish and violence. The book is not suitable for civilized people. The Magic Fairy of the Bible is a bloodthirsty savage who belongs in prison. Fortunately the entire book is fiction with maybe a few unimportant facts in it.
Unlike you I prefer to live in the 21st century instead of being forever stuck in the Dark Ages.
If you must know Rolln4him, I study many different religions, I take from them, the parts that allow me to be a better person towards my fellow man and the other life forms on planet Earth, I'm not concerned about an afterlife.
mr.science;
Comments about Satan? Those aren't my comments, they are directly from the scriptures. You're giving me more credit than I deserve.
Have you read the Bible, mr. science?
you're calling Christianity childish?
I would call Christianity "insane".
Your comments about Satan I would call "childish".
Nothing personal. I'm an atheist so you should expect me to have nothing but contempt for your man-made religious beliefs.
johnny - you mean you won't answer my question about your belief system?
johnzon, are you an atheist? If not, what? I ask because I'm an atheist (and proud of it) and I noticed I agree with everything you have said. Thanks.
Now, now mr. science. Childish?
You talk about earth girls being easy and you're calling Christianity childish? Ummm. By the way, I meant to put an explanation mark after soul not a question mark.
Rolln4him, I see your other nonsense posts, you are a very poor representative of your religion, giving it a bad rap. You might want to move on little fellow.
Hey johnny - good to see you come from your slumber. I apologize for misrepresenting your faith; please clarify your belief?
Rolln4him,
It would appear you have some serious anger management issues and are very insecure about your beliefs in that you appear to feel threatened by other points of view. You remind me of the Taliban- close minded, judgmental, hate-filled and arrogant. You also remind me of why I avoid "your type".
By the way, I never said I was an atheist, so stop the misrepresentation of me.
One other thing, a person does not have to believe in God to be good.
"God and Satan."
You're testing my patience. Let's not get too childish here.
mr. science;
Allow me to put Christianity in a nutshell. Whether you know it or not, you are in a war. God and Satan. God has His angels and Satan has his angel.
What's at stake? Your soul?
"Why would you want to survive?"
Because earth girls are easy.
mr. science;
Why would you want to survive? No offense, but what's the point?
I will repeat this sentence because maybe you missed it.
"To survive in this world a person has to be able to be trusted."
That's it in a nutshell. A person, whether or not he or she has an insane belief in magic fairies, can't survive in the modern world without having a strong and good reputation.
mr. science;
I apologize for simplifying your belief in no god. Due to space and time, I had to do a modification of sorts. But in your response, you used some very interesting terms and phrases.
Responsibility
natural
civility
reputation to protect
accountable
You didn't seem to answer my question, however, in light of these terms and phrases.
Why would you care about being responsible, about a reputation, about being accountable etc. In other words, who cares and why would you care if somebody else cares? Where is this intrinsic need to have a good reputation? How do you define good?
rolln4him wrote "Being an atheist is a faith - a religion of sorts. It's a belief that nothing occurs after you die. It's also very humanistic, since you create your own set of values since there's no fear of the afterlife or any accountability so to speak."
rolln4him, you have a lot of misconceptions about atheists. Not to worry. I will educate you so you don't make a fool out of yourself in the future.
First of all, it's not really fair to say NOT believing in something requires faith. For example, if I told you I believe in the Easter Bunny, would you require "faith" to tell me I'm nuts? Probably not. Well, guess what. Your God, also known as The Magic Fairy, has as much evidence as my Easter Bunny, and both beliefs are equally childish. It doesn't require faith to NOT believe in your magic fairy for the same reason it doesn't require faith to NOT believe in a magic bunny.
The same is true about NOT believing in life after death. Since life after death has exactly ZERO evidence, and since this idea is even more childish than a belief in magical bunnies, it does not require faith to NOT believe in it.
Your idea an atheist wouldn't want to be a civilized person because he or she doesn't believe in magic fairies makes no sense. I'm accountable to my neighbors, friends, relatives, and everyone else I share this planet with. I have a reputation to protect. To survive in this world a person has to be able to be trusted. Also, normal people have a natural tendency to act civilized. You apparently are an exception. If not for your childish belief in a magic fairy, you would probably be a serial killer or something. Or maybe not.
Anyway, be careful what you say about atheists. There's more than 30 million of us in America, and more than One Billion of us in the world, and our numbers are growing rapidly. The vast majority of atheists are very civilized, and many of us are very successful, well educated, and wealthy. We don't appreciate your idea that we can't act civilized without your religion crutch.
Yo prosciencezz -
Normal? Ummm? Civilized? Ummm. So what constitutes being civil mr. science. Where do you suppose those "values" come from? Why would you want to abide by them? What or, better yet, who determines civility?
Daniel Paul;
Quantum physics?
The beauty of being a Christian is that according to scripture, you must have the faith of a child to receive eternal life. No quantum physics required, no Phd in theology required, just the faith of a child. It's a great equalizer. Some of the smartest people known to man never get it. Halleluia - there's hope for all; even me!!
rolln4him wrote "So Johnzon- I've always wondered about your types, because if I had your mentality of "going back to dirt" I'd be living it up. Do you have sex with as many folks as possible, party through the night, cheat on my taxes, steal or shoplift if the opportunity was there and try all the drugs available, etc. Seriously, if it wasn't for Christ in my life, I know I'd be out there "having the time of my life"!!!"
rolln4him, it's possible for a normal person to act civilized without having a childish belief in Jesus.
Notice I said "normal" person.
Johnzon;
My post insulting? LOL! You come onto a Christian website and post your beliefs that are insulting and you turn around and call my serious question insulting? Truly, hilarious.
Being an atheist is a faith - a religion of sorts. It's a belief that nothing occurs after you die. It's also very humanistic, since you create your own set of values since there's no fear of the afterlife or any accountability so to speak. So I think that my question is certainly valid. What possesses you to "be obedient" to law and order? As long as you don't get caught (as to not have to suffer negative immediate repercussions) there's not need to abide to any "guidelines", so cheating on your taxes or having sex with whomever and whenever and where-ever would be quite tantalizing, eh?
'The Bible says we will have new bodies'
Doesn't mean its true. I never trust a single reference.
There was a song back in the 70's called "If Heaven was Never Promised to Me" which basically said that even if there was no afterlife that walking with Christ was enough of a reward in and of itself.
Christianity is about a relationship with God and not some set of rituals.
"Yes fear of death and becoming worm food is a very strong motivator for many to be attracted to religion,"
Why? The Bible says we will have new bodies. The problem comes in with the understanding of time. My death, my grandfathers death, the Apostle Pauls death, King David's death...everyone's death is not linier outside of creation. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. So, even though our bodies are buried (or whatever) and waiting for the return of Christ, we are also in our new bodies and present with the Lord.
Quantum physics anyone?
DelightntheLord , Yes fear of death and becoming worm food is a very strong motivator for many to be attracted to religion, can bring peace of mind and help to get people thru life that have a fear of death being the end. My main point is that unless religion brings one a peace of mind, then why else would a rational person be attracted to religion.
"otherwise why would a rational person be involved in religion"
Maybe so those rational people won't end up being food for worms.
"The root problem is each individuals rebellion against their Creator."
So, your question when people are on hard times is "Who sinned. Him or his parents?" What about Job? It is mankinds rebellion against their creator starting in the garden. Sometimes it has nothing to do with the individual.
I'm not sure what you mean by "You are appealing to Statism" which is "a communist state using extensive use of propaganda to establish a personality cult around an absolute dictator to maintain control over the nations people and to maintain political control for the Communist Party of the Soviet Union."
Psalm 14:1 (New King James Version)
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God". They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good.
weekenderman, Yeah, right, whatever you want to believe in. I hope it brings you peace of mind, afterall thats what religion is supposed to do, otherwise why would a rational person be involved in religion.
I'm sure you need no reminder by Christians of your sin, Johnzon. Your own behavior (sin) is a reminder, as God's Word says.
rolln4him 'I've always wondered about your types.....'
Your post is both interesting and insulting. So, since I may not subscribe to your religion, that makes me a bad person who behaves irresponsibly. Thank you for the reminder why I dont associate with "your type".
continued to 777:
We are seeing this right now with people thinking there is another way, or other ways to God.
"Those people who know about God and turn their backs on his commandments may miss out on heaven too.
You have to live your life, just the way Jesus did, because dont forget, we are only practising on earth what we will be doing in heaven, and that also is going to church on the Sabbath, the 7th day of the week, as was Jesus's practise. So please say NO to Sunday worship and YES to Sabbath worship, as it says in the 10 commandments. Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy."
Actually, the Apostle Paul cleared up the legalistic keeping of the Sabbath. As believers in Christ, everyday is given over to our Lord and our Savior Jesus Christ. So since the early church worshipped, and met on the first day of the week, that would mean they met on Sunday; so having said this, there is nothing wrong with worshipping on Sunday's, as there is nothing wrong with worshipping on Saturday's, or Wednesday's, or even better, every day!
Trust in Jesus and Jesus alone as the Mediator between you and God; get plugged into a church that teaches the Word expositorily from Genesis to Revelation, and then get to know Jesus your Savior and Lord personally; go love on people and share what Christ has done in your life with them in word and in deed.
Please read Romans 14 starting in vs. 5.
Lastly, if you are trully born again thru Christ, you will want to obey God and His Word. This does not mean you will never sin again, or rebel again, but there will be fruit produced from a life that is being transformed into the image of Christ.
Blessings,
777 said:
"You know what, there will be a lot of people in heaven from other churches who dont even know Christ, or understand the Bible, because God is their judge and jury."
You are seriously mistaken 777. The Word of God says that Christ is the ONLY WAY. John 14:6. God saves us out of His mercy for us. He loves us because that is His very nature. He gives us His provision for a relationship with Him, and that is thru Jesus Christ. That's it, no other provision. There is nothing good in us. Apart from Christ, we are all doomed to hell. And it's our choice when presented with the Gospel of Christ to either surrender and believe, or retaliate in rebellion and reject God's Son.
"Some of the people who have studied the Bible all their lives may miss out on heaven too, if we are not careful, because God says that even the very elect will be deceived."
To put God's Word in context, God says:
Matthew 24:24.
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Psalm 14:1 (New King James Version)
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God". They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good.
Pretty simple. Take a poll of true Christians and see what answers you get. Today we have people shacking up, committing sodomy, drinking, etc. who call themselves Christians. A perfect example of this is the episcopal "church".
James 1:14-16 (New King James Version)
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
So Johnzon- I've always wondered about your types, because if I had your mentality of "going back to dirt" I'd be living it up. Do you have sex with as many folks as possible, party through the night, cheat on my taxes, steal or shoplift if the opportunity was there and try all the drugs available, etc. .
Seriously, if it wasn't for Christ in my life, I know I'd be out there "having the time of my life"!!!
And we return to the dirt, part of natures life cycle.
johnzon wrote: "Back to the soil..........."
So, you believe we came from dirt? But, that's a biblical belief?
"Before what? "
Back to the soil...........
johnzon,
What was it like "before"?
Before what?
Daniel Paul, You are appealing to Statism. Homelessness, no food for supper, no health care, broken cars are but symptoms of an on going root problem. The root problem is each individuals rebellion against their Creator.
delight, I believe this an issue that only God can and will answer, but as I told ww those who have heard the Truth are without excuse and as for the 10/40 issue, that's the reason the Church needs to get busy in joining God in the fulfillment of His Great Commission.
There is no heaven,
There is no hell,
There is only the here and now,
There might be a tomorrow,
Then there will be no more,
Then it will be like it was before....
About the "millions who have not heard of Christ being doomed"; you would be hard pressed to find millions WHO HAVE NEVER HEARD the Gospel outside of the 10/40 window. Yes, there are populations in third world countries who may not heard of Christ but are they doomed?
Only God knows the heart of man and He is merciful and His lovingkindness endures forever. He can and does work in the heart of man. I've heard the same statement answered once that if the Abourigine kneels at a rock and looks up to heaven and worships (thanks) the Creator, then he will be saved. IF he instead, kneels at the rock to worship the rock, then he is worships creation itself and not the Creator and he is not saved. This makes sense to me from what I understand of a loving God.
If someone else has a better analogy of that scenario, by all means enlighten us. I believe the belief in and worship of a Creator God is always a choice for man.
So your comment: ( I don't see how any literalist can be seen as anything other than moronic or cruel) is anything but accurate . . .
wwfsmd,
The Scriptures clearly teach that there is salvation ONLY through Jesus Christ: Acts 4:12, 1Corinthinans 3:11, John 14:6; however, the scriptures also teach that the Lord will consider WHERE one was born and WHAT one knows. For those who come to KNOW the clear teaching of who Christ is and his claims; they will be held accountable for this. For those who do not come into contact with this knowledge; consider the following passages -
I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah : Psalms 87:4-6.
For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel: Romans 2:11-16.
"And alarmingly, 52 percent of all American Christians think that at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life."
The article does not mention whether these 52% attend church regularly.
For them who have ears to hear, let them hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.
"I don't see how any literalist can be seen as anything other than moronic or cruel. Either they don't understand that millions will suffer through unjust damnation through no fault of their own, or they don't care."
Are you saying that all damnation is unjust? You proceed from the assumption that God owes us something. As if God owes us our version of fairness.
God owes us nothing. We walked out on Him. Your position demonstrates the classic model of codependency where all wrong doing should be overlook. "My dad's not an alcoholic. He just likes to drink." and so forth.
Why have courts? Why have laws? Why have police? Why have jails? The answers are the same as "Why have hell?"
God has given mankind every opportunity to get their relationship with Him straight short of taking away our free will. The fault of anyone being sent to hell it their own and not Gods. He owes us no salvation. He has had mercy on us and we should respect that.
Anything less is moronic, self centered and rude.
Gratus: (The question is not what you call yourself (Protestant, Catholic, Jew, Muslim, Hindu), but whether you have a relationship with Jesus.)
Anyone who has a true relationship with Jesus will not stay within some the above mentioned false systems of worship.
Blue: (God will judge each by his own, and if all your life you followed one religion or another - as long as you stayed true to your faith)
There is some truth to this; however, it all depends on how much light one has . . .
7777: (Some of the people who have studied the Bible all their lives may miss out on heaven too, if we are not careful,)
Amen! . . . Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2Corinthians 13:5).
(The 7th day of the week, as was Jesus practice.)
Amen . . .
ww, one of the reasons I am a Southern Baptist is because of our focus on missions and our willingness to pull out all the stops to take the Word of God to all people. We have missionaries who put their lives on the line daily for the cause of Christ and some serve in countries where if they are found out could very well lose their lives and some have. God's Word says that if a person truly seeks God He will reveal Himself to that person. Now I can't answer for God with regards to people who have not heard His only plan of salvation through the person and work of His Son, Jesus Christ but I'm not willing to sit by and do nothing about it, nor do I believe that gives people who have heard the truth the excuse that because its possible that God won't allow a person who has not heard the Truth to go to hell then He won't allow those who heard it but refused to believe it to go to hell either.
ww, II Timothy 2:3-4, "Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the One who enlisted him as a soldier." So Christians are indeed called to be soldiers of the Cross of Christ.
There is another possibility to this "apostacy" argument. Rather than lack of biblical knowledge or strength of conviction, maybe those Christians who say there may be other ways to "salvation" are motivated by something completely different.
Perhaps they are trying to reconcile the concept of a literal belief in the bible with the concept of a loving creator. If one must follow Christ, etc., to be "saved", then millions of people who never even heard of Christ have already been doomed to eternal punishment. This would make God a hateful tyrant. Either he is a hateful tyrant or the bible is not literally true.
From this point of view alone, I don't see how any literalist can be seen as anything other than moronic or cruel. Either they don't understand that millions will suffer through unjust damnation through no fault of their own, or they don't care. Neither is excusable.
This article gives me hope that many Christians are more kind and intelligent than those who wrote the bible.
"The use of words like "soldiers" gives away your militancy."
So much for "Onward Christian Soldiers". Also, we wrestle not against flesh and blood. Therefore, I am speaking of the spiritual battle between the Christ and his enemies.
Your response of fleshly militance gives away your lack of understanding of the spiritual battle any Christian would know about.
Daniel Paul,
The use of words like "soldiers" gives away your militancy. I'm glad the Christian "body" is weak. The "body" of Islam is strong right now, and look where that's getting us.
Human rights, democracy, and science have all progressed as religion has declined in the West. This is a good thing. If only the same would happen in the Muslim world.
blue, if what you say is true then Jesus Christ died in vain and lied when He said that He was the way, the truth, and the life and no one can come unto the Father but through Him.
Jesus went into places of worship. He never had one built. Church isn't the building but the body. The body has grown flabby and weak. It's time for some workouts!
As for having too many battles...the problem is we don't have enough soldiers.
God will judge each by his own, and if all your life you followed one religion or another - as long as you stayed true to your faith - I honestly, truly, absolutely don't believe He will stamp a denied on your forehead and cast you to eternal damnation. The mere thought of hell is so preposterous.
The question is not what you call yourself (Protestant, Catholic, Jew, Muslim, Hindu), but whether you have a relationship with Jesus. Jesus saves, not names. I cannot know, like God, the relationship someone has or does not have with Jesus. Abel, the murdered son of Adam, had a relationship with Jesus. Kain did not have one. I have to judge according to the fruit a man bears. By its fruit a tree is known, not by the label sticker on its trunk!
Hey 7777, One cannot get to Heaven without " Knowing " Christ, Jesus said in John 3:3, " Except a man be Born Again he cannot see the kingdom of God."
You must be Born Again.
We have been involved in too many battles - in gay marriages, against abortion, that we somehow missed
the centrality of Christ as the truth, and the way.
We have let a lot of things go, the worship of the many idols in the Catholic Faith whom declare themselves as Christians. If the Catholics can worship Mary, and St Paul, why not Buddha? Christianity then becomes related to the culture and religion that we are born into - with many ways to God.
It is time for the church to pause, and reflect on the important issues.
www.psa91.com
You know what, there will be a lot of people in heaven from other churches who dont even know Christ, or understand the Bible, because God is their judge and jury.
Some of the people who have studied the Bible all their lives may miss out on heaven too, if we are not careful, because God says that even the very elect will be deceived. Those people who know about God and turn their backs on his commandments may miss out on heaven too.
You have to live your life, just the way Jesus did, because dont forget, we are only practising on earth what we will be doing in heaven, and that also is going to church on the Sabbath, the 7th day of the week, as was Jesus's practise. So please say NO to Sunday worship and YES to Sabbath worship, as it says in the 10 commandments. Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.
You must be in hell then proscienceyy since you spend an awful lot of time with us Christians here at CP.
"Surprisingly, Christians also believe atheism can provide a ticket to heaven. Forty-six percent of white mainline Christians, 49 percent of white Catholics and 26 percent of white evangelicals who believe many religions lead to salvation say atheism can lead to eternal life."
That's funny because atheists don't believe in heaven. Also, atheists wouldn't want to go there even if heaven wasn't just a childish insane belief. Spending eternity with Christians in a heaven would be worse than a hell.
J4M...based on the symbol that appears with your text you were doing a copy and paste. If it ain't pure ascii it may mess up when it is posted. Try correcting any ",' and ... which are in the text. You can tell if it's going mess up because the " and ' are slanted.
"The term, " Christian " means " Followers of Christ."
Actually, the term Christian literally translated is "Christ ones" or the ones of Christ. And yes it was a greko-roman state. The "Christian"s refered to themselves as disciples or followers but it was the Romans who named them "Christ ones". They had put Christ on the cross and so they looked down on Jesus and anyone who associated themselves with him.
Preachers are responsible for all this mess.
Jesus4me, I don't know why it wouldn't since many of us post passages of scripture often, but your posts are right on target!!
I tried posting Scripture; apparently, the Christian post doesn't allow Christian Scripture to be posted. Anyways, I just wanted to comment on this subject. America is full of "cultural Christians" who think because they go to church on easter, or their grandmother taught sunday school, this is their ticket to heaven. Somehow, the survey doesn't surprise me, especially with the current trends in making Jesus more "socially" acceptable by watering down His Word and teaching a "social gospel", or a "seeker-friendly" gospel rather than teaching the Word of God from Genesis to Revelations expositorily. Many churches have become social areas to meet people and to have lunch after service, but there is no true relationship with our Maker, Our God, Our Savior. There is no true fellowship amongst the brethren, because people get "offended" when the Word is too "narrow minded" for their views. The emergent church is one such movement that is watering down Scripture and re-interpreting it for the post-modern world. They are decivers and wolves in sheeps clothing.
John 14:6 (New King James Version)
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
Result pages:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
John 14:6 (New King James Version)
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:3-5 (in Context) Jude 1 (Whole Chapter)
Result pages:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
As much as we disagree in here, it is good to see that we are united in this.
Then 4 billion+ people are wrong. Jesus is the only way! It is the whole basis of our faith. I dont see how this article can be correct in saying most american christians believe christ is not the only way, it is what makes us christian. If you use this forum as a example then all but one of us agree that christ is the only way and that one is not christian. I dont know where they got their information but since it is the basis of our belief, their random sample to support this wasnt a very good representation of Christians
There is only one way to get to heaven, and a text from the bible say, ÃÂf you love me, keep my commandments!
If you really love Jesus, all you have to do, is just that. The bible also says, As was Jesus custom, he went into the synogogue to pray on the Sabbath. Unless you do what Jesus did, you havent got a hope in Hades of getting to heaven. Dont follow the catholic church, as the Pope wants you all to worship on Sunday. Be like Jesus and stand up for what is right. Jesus said, also, to have no other Gods before him. You have to have guts to follow what you believe in this world, and dont worry about the knockers. I'm going to heaven, what about you?
And the Disciples were called " Christians " first in Antioch. ( Acts 11:26 )
The term, " Christian " means " Followers of Christ."
To be called Christian is Biblical.
it is consider a deragotory term by those who are not followers of Christ. There are millions of people who wear the term Christian as a badge of Honor.
many Preachers have failed to declare the truth of the Gospel of Christ to their Congrgations, that coupled with the fact that manuy Christians do not study the Word of God for themselves, thus Biblical Ignorance.
But many have also left their first Love, they no longer love Christ as they once did.
Much of the Church went Politically Correct and threw the Bible out the window.
We must have a Holy Ghost Revival, and we must have it now.
"More than Four Billion people disagree."
Almost the entire world at one time thought it was flat. What's your point?
" Biblically, the term Christian was a deragotory. "
And so it is going full circle. It is, once again, being made into a deragotory term.
"The truth must be proclaimed and gospel spread out to all nations for them to know Jesus is the way, truth and the life."
More than Four Billion people disagree.
Unfortunately this is true.... the problem is not tolerance..the problem is ignorance... OUr churches should be teaching about other religions... the kind of man Muhammed really was, who the Buddah was...
Ask the average college student what they know about Islam..and it is nothing... yet they see good people with good intentions worshipping a false god and hence the conflict
Unfortunately the new American religion of "Tolerance" has infected the church. It is "intolerant" to say there is only one way and that those who don't follow it are going to Hell. Much better to say, like George Bush, that we all worship the same God - though ask a Moslem if he worships Jesus Christ and see what answer you get!
Most so-called Christians never read the Bible and teaching on it in the church is usually restricted to feel-good lessons on overcoming problems in your own life.
ID, I totally agree with you that biblical illiteracy reigns rampant in local churches today!
cowboy, I can't speak for Dr. Mohler but I am beginning to discover many who claim to be Calvinists believe more in foreknowledge and predestination as one as opposed to only predestination with regards to salvation, by that I mean they agree as I believe we all do that God knows who will choose to be saved and based on that He has predestined a plan so that those who will choose to be can have the opportunity to do just that. And while there may be those present when those who will choose to be saved who reject God's plan, the main thing is that those who will choose Christ hear the message. Personally, I think the jury is still out on this one, but I do totally disagree with the idea that God has a hit list on who He'll save and who He won't.
I am proud to be associated with a carpenter's son who was executed on the cross. Spit on me, sneer at me, insult me, call me a Christian!
I think what many people mean, however, is that they are not Muslim or Jewish, so they must be Christian. Cultural Christianity is not salvation, as Cheala34life said.
I grew up Catholic. I identified myself as such because I had been baptized as an infant, but I did not know Christ at all. I was a cultural Christian. The Church today needs to teach Christ and him crucified, as the RCC most emphatically did NOT teach me.
I knew all the rules, and did the aerobics, but was not saved.
(Most American Christians believe many religions can lead to eternal life and among them, the vast majority says you don't even have to be Christian to go to heaven)
These same Christians should reconsider these exclusive claims . . .
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me (John 14:6).
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12).
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ (1Corinthians 3:11).
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1Timothy 2:5).
Correction *The term christian can not justify you morally*
Unfortunately, many people consider themselves "Christians."
God does not refer those who have been born again as "Christians." Biblically, the term Christian was a deragotory. Those who were associated with Christ were not looked as people who were nice and compassionate. you must understand Jesus was considered a criminal. anyone associated with was looked down upon.
Today the term Christian is no more than a social term or a way to legitamize your life because you are affiliated with a church. The term christian can justify you morally.
For someone to say I am a Christian that is not indicative a real relationship with Christ. Biblically, God refers to those who have accepted Christ as "son of God" The only way to become a son is to accept the son God has given for our eternal salvation. So yes, if you use the term Christian as it designated today, then yeah... there is more than way to God, but if you use the term biblically, then no...a son of God can only be born of God. To be born of God by the his spirit, you must accept Jesus the Christ.
Alternative title: Only 35 per cent of self-described Christians are versed in primary doctrine.
I think that this article is just more evidence that we are living in the end times.
We need to take a good look around and see what is happening in our world.
The Bible is very clear in the end times false teachers and false prophets will come and the people will not tolerate sound doctorine and will desire to have thier ears tickled.
It is both a sad and a blessed thing to think about how close we could be to seeing Jesus face to face, but there are so many who are so decieved and are going to end up in a place they don't want to be.
This article is so saddening because these people have no idea what they are saying and how far they are walking away from the gospel and Christ.
We just need to pray that God will draw his church back to repentence and the honesty of the scriptures.
"I know that just in my own family, nearly all say they are "Christians" and at the same time they don't read their Bibles "
I live here in the buckle of the Bible belt. If even half the people who claimed to be Christian actually lived like it we wouldn't have most of the social problems we have (homelessness, no food for supper, no health care, broken cars). Instead we leave the government to be the 'Christian' organization who take care of people. We reap what we sow.
I agree with you ID4234. Are we to be surprised. I know that just in my own family, nearly all say they are "Christians" and at the same time they don't read their Bibles (if they even have one anymore), go to church or have a church to call home, and they couldn't even tell you what the Gospel is. Yet, they say they're "Christians". They may be the kinds of Christians that are pervading the land of America anymore and is what this article is talking about.
People are being deceived. The ironic thing is Dr. Mohler believes in Calvanism which believes that God chooses who goes to Hell or not which I don't see that taught in scripture. But today, people don't know what the gospel is in the first place. You can believe the bible, believe in Jesus etc and still go to Hell. The gospel is not you doing anything but believing in what God has already done for you 2000 years ago. Jesus is being preached today but it's not the Jesus on the cross that is being preached but a works religion. Just trust what Jesus did not what you can do for Him. Preachers in the church are just as confused as who they are teaching. If you don't rightly divide, you will always be in confusion.
I would rather shut the doord of my church, than preach another Gospel, I would rather shut the ministry down than preach a message that will send people to hell.
Church stand up for the truth of the Gospel of Christ. There is no other name given among men, wherby we must be saved.
Faith in Christ and what he did on the cross is the only way one can be saved and make heaven their home.
Islam cannot save the soul. Allah does not exist except in the minds of deceived men.
Preacher and Christian alike, Preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or get out of the way and let those who will, do it.
JC, I agree with you 100%. What was it that Paul said in 2 Thessalonians about sending a "strong delusion" to those who don't "love the truth" so that they will "believe a lie"?
I'm thinking these poor souls who believe that they can gain eternal life with the Father through any other means other than Christ are those Paul is referring to: the delusional.
Yep, I think good ol' Satan is having a field day in this post-modern age!
If ever there was evidence that the Church is in Apostasy this is it.
When one no longer believes what the Bible says about Salvation, that person is no longer a Christian. Many have already fallen by the wayside,
The true Pastor and Preacher of the Gospel of Jesus Christ must stand in the pulpit and declare the Truth without compromise.
If people want to leave a church because Pastor tell's them the truth, let them leave.
I've had this discussion with many people, and for the most part, it can be boiled down to a difference of two words; "A" and "The".
For some, Jesus is "a" way, for Christians Jesus is "the" way, for this is what the Bible says. And since the Bible says that Jesus and His word are one, it would be wise to believe what is written, would you not agree?
Some have suggested that it comes down to what one believes in, what one follows, what one uses as their strength, their joy, their insight into what is in the next realm.
But how can this be? In reality, there can only be one truth. It is both illogical and impossible for there to be more than one truth. How can God be Allah, when both are at complete disagreement. How can God be Buddha, when one way glorifies God and the other man? And still others, how can God be both His creation, yet use the creation as His footstool?
Didn't Jesus says that a house divided against itself shall not stand? So how can His house stand if He let's it be divided?
It is the difference between light and darkness. One of the problems with darkness is that things are hidden, and only presented to you is what darkness wants you to see. With light, all things are exposed to what truth really is. Nothing is hidden, nothing is unseen, all truth is exposed, and all darkness is revealed.
Beloved, which is greater, obedience or sacrifice? If one is obedient to God and His word, one will know truth, one will see that which is to be exposed. That is what is meant by eyes that see and ears that hear.
The irony here is that most, if not all, major religions today contain claims of exclsivity. I find the whole thing rather humorous since those on all sides who advicate this pluralism mentality are in fact going against the very tenents of the faith they claim to uphold.
One other thing. "Christians" who do not think the way is through Christ are, by definition, something other than Christians.
This should come as no surprise. We are living in a time of great Biblical illiteracy. However, no matter how apostate man's thinking becomes, the only way to Heaven is through Jesus who said "I am the way, the truth, and the life." John 14:6 There have always been false teachers and they persist to this day. False teachers produce false believers. But the Bible explains the way very concisely and correctly.
It is really alarming to know this. The truth must be proclaimed and gospel spread out to all nations for them to know Jesus is the way, truth and the life. Just like you would not let your child in darkness, we can't let the ones who do not know Christ be in darkness but help them to know that Jesus is the way.