American churches have a more informal worship style and ethnically diverse congregation than ten years ago, found a recent study on religious congregation trends.
More worship services include drums, jumping and shouting or dancing, raising hands in praise, calling out "amen," visual projection equipment, applause, and speaking by people other than leaders compared to 1998, the National Congregations Study shows.
Fewer churches feature traditional choirs during services.
Most of the informal service changes occur in Protestant and Catholic churches that are increasingly using visual projection equipment and drums. The increase in jumping, shouting and dancing occur most frequently in black churches.
Lead researcher Mark Chaves, a sociology professor at Duke University School of Divinity, noted that the study’s findings are especially noteworthy because “religious traditions and organizations are widely considered to be remarkably resistant to change,” according to USA Today.
But the numbers for some features have remained about the same, including a sermon or speech, singing, greeting time, silent prayer or meditation, reading or reciting Scripture time, and speaking in tongues during service.
Besides becoming more informal, churches in America have also changed to be more ethnically diverse.
Noting that recent immigration has “clearly” played a role in congregations’ social composition, the study observed that predominantly white and non-Hispanic congregations are more ethnically diverse than they were in 1998.
The number of people in congregations with no Latinos decreased from 43 percent in 1998 to 36 percent in 2006-07. Meanwhile, the number of congregations with no Asians decreased from 59 percent to 50 percent, according to the study.
Congregations that reported no recent immigrants dropped from 61 percent in 1998 to 49 percent in 2006-07.
Another way of looking at the data is the number of people in completely white and non-Hispanic congregations decreased from 20 percent to 14 percent in the nine-year period.
But the diversity occurred mostly among white churches; the majority of black churches still remain predominantly racially homogeneous.
Diversity is also seen among clergy, mainly in Catholic churches. The head clergy has become increasingly minority, with 13 percent of Catholic churches now led by black or Hispanic priests, compared to only 1 percent in 1998.
Along with the diversity, however, leaders of congregations are older, on average, than they were in 1998. The median age of the head clergy has increased from 49 in 1998 to 53 in 2006. Furthermore, congregations across the religious spectrum have fewer younger leaders. Today, only 39 percent of congregations are led by someone 50 years old or younger, a drop from 48 percent in 1998.
Catholic and liberal/mainline congregations are more likely to have older clergy compared to other churches.
The biggest change seen in congregations over the past decade was in the area of computer technology.
In 1998, the number of congregations with Web sites was only 17 percent. The number has since risen to 44 percent in 2006-07. In other words, since 1998 another 10,000 congregations created Web sites and now 74 percent of service attendees are in congregations with Web sites. Continue >>
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Thanks, sis.
Prophet,
Once while in worship a gentlemen leading the table said....just ponder for a moment all the brothers and sisters we are sharing this moment with.....Let's just say, I can't wait to meet every last one of them, but in the meantime, I get a chance to meet just a few that will leave a lasting impression....like you.
Reborn August 22, 1985.
forgiven,
"Yes, I am a member of the Church of Christ."
AHA! I knew it!
Actually I didn't. But you know what's cool? Is that we're all from differing denominations, and we never discussed our denominations beliefs directly or said that our denomination was the correct one. How wonderful it is when brothers and sisters can dwell in unity. Unfortunately, it appears the sisters outnumber me right now. LOL.
Forgivensinner
" Reborn, April 19, 1992. "
Praise God!
star,
I am still relatively young in the faith compared to some of the posters on here. Reborn, April 19, 1992.
star,
Actually, I listen to whatever my teenage daughter downloads on my MP3.
Yes, I am a member of the Church of Christ.
Forgivensinner
Do you by chance go to the Church of Christ? I went to one back in the late 80's for a short while. No instruments were used in their services.
Forgivensinner
OK. What kind of gospel music do you like the best?
I personally like the praise and worship music like Magesty, I like the old hymns of the faith that you find in the Hymn book, and I like gospel trumpet but not the kind that is all jazzed up.
When I am not in Worship service I do listen to instrumental Christian music, yes.
Forgivensinner
When you are not in Church, do you listen to gospel music where instruments are used to accompany the singer?
Let me make a quick distinction. God has granted many with musical talent and if those talents are used to glorify Him this is indeed glory and honor and pleasing to God. (My husband is a drummer as well as my daughter; she also plays the piano. No musical talent in me whatsoever.)
My stance is in His corporate worship were I believe through Scripture He has moved us through the veil to a new worship as He has asked us to worship. Using the instrument of our voices to sing to Him no longer bond to musical instruments to move us, but through the Holy Spirit.
I believe He has set up through His Son and the Apostles that we are to set aside the first day of the week to 1) Sing 2) partake of the Lord's supper, 3) reading of public scripture, 4) prayer, 5) collection.
Let me also add that although I see worshipping as a lifestyle, I am referring to what God has asked us to do every first day of the week.
I am simply sharing with you more understanding into what I believe. (Nothing argumentative in me.)
Amen. I agree.
Prophet
>>>I look forward to the day you and I can worship our King together in heaven. <<<
I don't think it will be too much longer brother. We are for sure in the last days and I believe we have entered into Daniel's 70th week.
star,
Amen. Whether we use instruments or not, God is pleased with our worship, when it comes from our hearts and spirit. I look forward to the day you and I can worship our King together in heaven. What a glorious day that will be.
I had the honor of seeing Phil Driscoll in concert once. There is such a strong spirit of praise in his music. I thought I was being raptured already. LOL.
There was a guy in my Church who played the drums. Sometimes when he played I am telling you I could hear those drums sing.
Sometimes when I heard Bill Pearce of Night Sounds play his trombone I am telling you I could hear that trombone sing.
One time when I was listening to Phil Driscol play his trumpet on a Christian radio station I am telling you I could hear that trumpet sing.
I play the cornet (trumpet). I use to teach the Youth (mainly two boys) in my church during Children's Church. The two boys and I did a special for the Church one Sunday morning. While we were practicing before that day the drums that Preston was playing I am telling you were actually singing.
Jesus spoke to the Apostle John while on the Isle of Patmos and His voice was one of a trumpet.
Revelation 1:10 - "I was in the spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet." (continued)
(continued)
Personally I don't think that God has done away with using musical instruments in a worship service to praise Him with.
God is the creator of musical instruments. Lucifer, the anointed cherub, was created with musical instruments built into him (Ez 28:13). He used those instruments in a godly way to worship God until iniquity was found in him.
Musical instruments can be used in a godly way and they can be used in an ungodly/polluted way.
Ezekiel 28:11-15
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Again I don't believe there is anything wrong with using musical instruments in a worship service because God created them to be used to worship Him with. I also don't think that there is anything wrong with not using them.
I attended a couple of times in the early 1990's a full gospel (pentecostal/charismatic) Baptist Church with some friends of mine. I went to the Singles Sunday School class taught by a believer who had served as an elder. He was teaching on the doctrine of laying on of hands that morning. He made a very interesting comment that I fully agree with and thought was very wise admonition. He told us that we should never critize a Church that does not worship like we do with the lifting of our hands, dance, praising God out loud, and etc. because being silent in the Church was biblical too. I really appreciated that.
I think that wise admonition is applicable here in whether a Church of the living God decides to use musical instruments or not in their praises to God.
oy. you guys are terrible. that joke was an udder disaster.
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20081227/top-10-most-popular-news-of-2008.htm
forgiven, yes, "acapulco" was a joke and yes I know I better not quit my day job!
prophet, don't you mean perpetual mootion!
LOL. You know what the definition of perpetual motion is?
A cow drinking milk.
Ok, ok..I know I've gotten off the subject. LOL. We needed a little comic relief though. I wonder where Jester is. We could sure use him now.
I don't know about cows, but my kids seem to do quite often.
Speaking of which, I've always wondered if you could make a cow laugh hard enough to make it spit milk out it's nose. hmmm.
believer,
LOL. Stop making me laugh. I'm gonna spit milk out my nose if you don't stop.
That was a joke?
believer,
Being a musician, I have heard that joke numerous times. But it's still amusing. LOL.
believer, my brother-in-law cannot carry a tune, but we sure do love his heart!
forgiven and prophet, you guys are sure a tough audience, but as for singing, I'm asked a lot to sing solo tenors, so low they can't hear me and to make sure to sing ten or more miles down the road!!!
LOL! a cappella.
Acapulco? Isn't like with bathing suits and steel drums? LOL
Thank you, Prophet.
believer, that's funny.
forgiven, sounds good to me and I know at times some of the churches I've attended may have been better off if they would have sung "acapulo" since the piano player was really bad!
Frogiven,
Thanks. For some reason, I felt that you were. Maybe it's the Spirit we share revealing it. LOL. But I hope God is blessin you and your family.
I've never really thought about it too much, but I have wondered if I had the spirit of discernment. There are a number of my coworkers and a couple of my customers that I felt in my spirit were Christians. They never talked about God to me or anything, it was just something in my spirit. And come to find out, I was right. LOL.
You are a wise and gifted woman. I know that God is doing great things in you.
A she.
forgiven,
Thank you. I appreciate your grace and wisdom. But I still have a question. Are you a he...or a she? LOL. I didn't want to be calling you a he if you're a she. LOL.
Prophet and believer,
Scripture does not give example or instruction for the use of instrumental music in the NT Chruch therefore I do prefer to remain silent on this issue. The use of musical instruments were part of OT worship and therefore I lean toward the use of instrumental music being done away with in the NT worship. BUT, God never once calls the use of musical instruments a sin so I choose to leave that in the realm of grace.
I hope that forgiven is able to come back and clarify it for himself. And also let me know if he is a he or a she...lol.
Yeah, kinda. I hate to answer for him. But it seems that it is a doctrine to them, but it seems that he himself finds no fault in those who choose to worship with music. I mean, they use the lack of scripture to facilitate their views. To me, the lack of scripture merely means that there has been no change in the way something is done.
But it seems that he and I both agree that it doesn't matter, as long as it's done in the spirit.
prophet, thanks for the answer, so in essence it's more of a preference than a biblical doctrine for them?
believer,
He doesn't. I asked him if he thought that worshipping God with instruments was a sin and he said "no". But it is a doctrine that they practice in their church.
forgiven, my sense is though that you and your church have no issue with those churches that do use musical instruments in their worship services?
That sounds a little too much like me. It drives my wife crazy. She says I'm going to give her ulcers if I don't tone it down a little. LOL.
I wasn't that far off afterall. ;-)
I like to think that they were full of zeal! Perhaps, outspoken enough to purposely get themselves into a little mischief/opportunites to impress the Word! They certainly did not mind getting run out of town and may have enjoyed the danger a bit.
Actually, one of the first bands I played in was called Boanerges.
Thanks. LOL. I wish the Bible expounded a little more on why they were called that. I've often wondered. Was it because they were outspoken and on the edge? Or was it because they were always stirring up mischief? LOL
It was a compliment!
LOL..."Son of thunder". LOL. I don't know if I should take that as a compliment or not.
I am glad we got that cleared up. Because I agree with you whole heartedly. Whether there are instruments, or not, if your heart is right in worship, God smiles and is blessed. By the way, many years ago, I visited a church that practiced worship the way you do. And I felt the spirit move just as much as it does in mine. I was truly blessed. And so was God.
I believe that will be between the (music) worshipper and God, but I will say that if one places more emphasis on the music moving them than the Holy Spirit then, yes, there may be a problem.
I believe we should rename you one of the sons of thunder. :-).
Oh, and because I do not want you to see me as circumventing; no is my answer.
So, do you believe that worshipping with instruments is a sin?
I play piano. Many people say that I can make it sing. People say that guitars sing.
Then I am lame, Prophet, but there is no where in the NT church that gives us example nor instruction for the use of intrumental music in worship.
God is entitled to be worhshipped in the spirit as he sess fit. Amen. And they that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Pardon me, but that's really lame. Where is heaven? It is a spiritual place. Do you not know that we have been raised up and we sit in heavenly places even now? Or at least we should.
God is entitled to be worshipped in heaven as He sees fit. The harp is the only instrument referred to in heaven through the vision of John.
Interestingly enough, the harp is known to sing.
So is God schizophrenic?
believer wrote: "forgiven, what do you and your church see as a problem with using musical instruments in your worship services?"
It is simply to matter of silence on the use of instrumental music. Neither Christ nor the Apostles gave instructions for the use of instrumental music in worship.
Prophet wrote: "You knew what I meant, but you were focused on the phrasing, not what you knew I meant."
Sorry, I may have been focused on your phrasing.
So is God schizophrenic?
believer wrote: "forgiven, what do you and your church see as a problem with using musical instruments in your worship services?"
Hi believer, did realize you enter the conversation.
forgiven,
I didn't belittle you for your choice to not use instruments...I said "Immature people argue such points..." in reference to your comment "No, you asked if I belonged to "one those churches that teaches" not to use instrumental music." You knew what I meant, but you were focused on the phrasing, not what you knew I meant.
Prophet wrote: "forgiven, what do you and your church see as a problem with using musical instruments in your worship services?"
Yes, for us we choose to remain silent on the issue or use of intrumental music during worship.
But if you want to make it a doctrine, and say that God doesn't condone musical instruments in worship, then God is schizophrenic.
Revelations 5:8
Revelations 14:2
Revelations 15:2
Prophet wrote: "But the question is, do you condemn me or belittle me for using instruments in our worship?"
I am by no means condemning or belittling you, Prophet. I believe we, both enjoy a good discussion on scriptural understanding, but I would point out that you have just belittled me..."Immature people argue such points"
I was quite honest and sincere with you, Prophet. I qualified myself with that it may be a liberty issue or even a spiritually weak issue.
forgiven, what do you and your church see as a problem with using musical instruments in your worship services?
Immature people argue such points, but thanks for answering.
Does the NT speak of using instruments in worship? No. Does it say to NOT use instruments? No. Are you in error? I don't know. If you worship in spirit and in truth, then no you are not. Am I in error for using instruments? If I worship in spirit and in truth, then no I am not. I do not condemn or belittle you or your church for not using instruments. I don't care if you do or not. But the question is, do you condemn me or belittle me for using instruments in our worship?
No, you asked if I belonged to "one those churches that teaches" not to use instrumental music.
But to answer your question ~ I belong to part of the Church that does not use instrumental music, yes.
No you didn't. I asked if you used instruments in your worship.
circumventing? I answered you.
Nice circumventing the question. Are you ashamed?
Do you believe me to be in error?
I am a part of the Church that does their best to adhere to Scripture. That's all.
Is that correct?
I see. So you're from one of those churches that teaches not to use any musical instrument.
This is where we may differ. I believe the NT church does not give example or instrution to/for instrumental music. The use of instrumental music in the OT was abolished along with all OT forms of worship; including priest at the establishment of the NT Church. The NT gives us examples of singing without the use of instrumental music; making melody with the heart Eph 5:19 instructing us to speak to each other in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.
Perhaps, this is a liberty issue or even a spiritually weaker issue, but I prefer to adhere to the silence of Scripture.
Ok. Fair enough. No, the Bible says that we are to worship in spirit and in truth. Regardless of what instruments we choose to use.
I believe I asked the first question.
Waiting for an answer.
Prophet,
For argument sake do we find any examples of the NT church using instrumental music? Did Christ or the Apostles leave instruction for the use of instrumental music?
So, any other instrument besides trumpets, lyres, cymbals, and harps is not worship? I know of no church that adheres to that.
Prophet,
God gave instruction to Moses for the public worship of the Tabernacle which included two silver trumpets only. God then gives instructions David through His prophets to include with the trumpets of Moses, harps, lyres, and cymbals.
you wrote: "Now, if you're going to promote that only certain instruments can be used...then you've stepped out of the spiritual and fallen butt first into the carnal."
Now, now, please be nice....I believe what I said earlier was that in the NT we are to be spiritual no longer carnal.
Again, I ask, nicely ~ For argument sake do we find any examples of the NT church using instrumental music? Did Christ or the Apostles leave instruction for the use of instrumental music?
Now, if you're going to promote that only certain instruments can be used...then you've stepped out of the spiritual and fallen butt first into the carnal.
"God ordained specific instruments in the OT because of people's carnal nature."
When you say "God did this" or "God did that" I hope you have scripture to back it up. The reason why the Jewish people played their particular instruments was simple because that was their culture. Not because God ordained it.
Ahh, yes, Prophet
God ordained specific instruments in the OT because of people's carnal nature. Now in the NT we are to be spiritual no longer carnal. For argument sake do we find any examples of the NT church using instrumental music? Did Christ or the Apostles leave instruction for the use of instrumental music?
Forgivensinner,
Here is the instructions for how to worship God:
19The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God doesn't care what kind of instruments you play, or what style of music you play, or even how bad you sing. He only commands us to worship Him in spirit and in truth.
re: music
God gives us instructions throughout the His Word. Does He not give us instruction on how He is to be worshipped?
God gave Moses instruction, David instruction, which included the musical instruments to be used for worshipping Him. God also allowed many to enjoy and play musical instruments that were used to glorify Him.
The question remains what does God instruct us to do for the "worship" of Him? Is this up for interpretation?
Wait just a minute - if Christianity grows to include too many people who are different from us, we will have lost the "us vs. them" mentality that is the whole point of being an evangelical in the first place. Rick Warren is clever enough to single out gays and those who are pro-choice, so his Church members still have a large group of people to look down on.
And almost every church is worshipping incorrectly. Because the organ and guitars were not in use during the Old Testament. So those instruments are of the devil. And the drums we use today are nothing like they were back then, so they're of the devil. And singing harmony was not used back then, so that's of the devil.
What immature people don't realize is that the people in the Old Testament sang music the way they did was because that was their culture. Not because God wanted it that way. Even their non-religious music was that way. So it's not the style, or how fast the beat is, or the instruments....it's the heart. And some people don't have one.
jester,
I don't know. But when someone said "The Church I attend features choral music in Latin composed no later than 1600, like God intended..." and has no scripture to back it up, it proves that it is simply a matter of their own persoanal taste, rather than the truth.
i dont get that. is the catholic church the modern day version of the pharisees?
Jester,
LOL. That could be. I understand there are pirated cd's going around of his music. I hope he had it copyrighted so no one else can take claim to it. But I do find it rather amusing (and very disturbing) that certain groups insist on promoting their man-made doctrines without the support of Scripture. They say "This is how God wants it done", but yet, in truth, it's the way their denomination wants it. It is a lie. Like the pharisees, it is just another yoke of bondage to oppress people with. Sad really, that they do not worship in spirit and in truth. That they really don't commune and fellowship with God. If they truly did, then they would slough off the bondage of ungodly traditions, and walk in the newness of the Spirit.
proph,
"I wonder where they get their information? Eyewitness accounts?"
actually, Kind David made cd's of his music so that people could know how to do it correctly.
Chicago,
You said "The Church I attend features choral music in Latin composed no later than 1600, like God intended."
But Latin wasn't the language used by the Hebrews, so it can't be like God intended it. And could you please state the scripture to support your beliefs?
I've talked to missionaries from africa who say they worship God in their traditional african style. Does that mean it's not acceptable to God?'
That's where the Catholic church puts people into bondage. It's got to be their way, or the highway. They're so worried about the external, that they ignore the internal.
And on that note as well, just because that may be how they worshipped, does it mean that's the only way? If so, why don't people still cover their head when reading from the Scriptures? That's how they did it back then.
God is Spirit, and those who worship Him will do so in spirit and in truth. Whether that's a Gregorian chant, or a Maranatha Praise song. It's about the heart, not the music. That's where many people miss out on worship.
I wonder where they get their information? Eyewitness accounts?
Unfortunately, we have no proof as to how they sang and dance. It's speculation.
The winds of compromise...
Good stuff Chicago, that's exactly the way we celebrate Mass at the Cathedral in this city....
Prophet: I've done a lot of research into the music of the Old Testament, mainly that of Psalms and the way the psalter was originally performed. It was much like Gregorian chant with melodies barely spanning an octave or with intervals over a fourth. Most were in a hypo-Dorian mode. All were single-melody performances; no harmonies. I'm sure that King David and his audiences found them incredibly inspiring, but our little modern Western minds that require a lot of loud sensationalism would have required a Thorazine drip to get through the worship service.
To think that in the Old Testament, the music wasn't sometimes upbeat and moving would be a mistake. God designed music to bring people into a spirit of worship and praise. Whether it's changing keys in between verses, or a more prominant bass, or perfect harmonies...it's all to draw us into a spirit of worship and praise.
Does music move the people? Or do the people move the music?
Chicago, I can relate to what you're saying. One verse that stands out is David saying, "Praise the Lord, o my soul!" With an act of his will, quite possibly with the use of the harp he's known for playing, he was calling on himself, "all that is within me," to praise the Lord. If I get a rush of excitement from a trilled organ chord or from the more subtle effect of the vocals in an ancient hymn, and I turn that Godward, then that's a good thing, isn't it? If we take away the unseen element from our lives, all we have left is a stark materialism and spiritual inertia. God gave us both the love for beauty and mystery as part of His "very good" plan for Mankind, and especially for His Church.
Believer: I do attend a church that features early church music and I sing in two of the choirs there.
As a church musician for many years, I've grown very weary of much of the modern church music. One might as well be at a rock concert or a folk music festival. Adreneline-based music like that hardly seems dignified at all.
Many years ago, I was an organist at a church that featured "spirited" services on Sunday nights. I could always get the congregation to stand and raise their hands in the air whenever I would transpose the song to a higher key between verses or add more bass to the pedal.
I told the pastor: "It's not the Holy Spirit that gets them on their feet; it's music theory!"
I know different people react in different ways to music, but I really question the validity of loud, rock-type of music in worship services.
The Church that I attend here in Edmonton, Canada is small in number, but huge in faith! We have about 100 members. God has provided us with a diversity of people in spite of our size. We have a piano and an organ, and the occasional "special music" with accordion, guitar, flute, piano and whatever else happens to be there... We sing any music that is God-centered and doctrinally sound. This means that the majority of our music is from the old hymns of the faith... We don't agree that "old church music means right church music"; there are proper hymns being written even today. Our pastor just ensures that whatever the music is, it cannot be in imitation of any of today's popular music, and it cannot contain any heresy. It must point us upwards to God, rather than towards ourselves. God has blessed us in three areas: we really seem to understand the necessity of servanthood, and we take seriously the local mission to our neighbors (evangelism)as well as the foreign mission, and we strive for holiness individually and corporately. My prayer is that we will always be pleasing to God and loving to one another...
chicago, is this chicago wit or are you really serious?
The Church I attend features choral music in Latin composed no later than 1600, like God intended.