After failed attempts to remove prayer from George W. Bush's inauguration ceremonies, Michael A. Newdow, along with other atheists, has once again filed a lawsuit to take God and religion out of the upcoming swearing-in ceremony.
The lawsuit was filed Tuesday by Newdow and 17 other individuals and 10 groups representing atheists who want the words "so help me God" and other religious references out of the president's oath of office, invocation and benediction.
"There can be no purpose for placing 'so help me God' in an oath or sponsoring prayers to God, other than promoting the particular point of view that God exists," the lawsuit states, according to CNN.
And according to Newdow, religious references convey the message that "we who believe in God are the righteous, the real Americans," he told CNN.
American Humanist Association, the Freedom from Religion Foundation and atheist groups from Minnesota, Seattle, Washington and Florida are among the groups that band together for the lawsuit. They are suing Supreme Court Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., who will administer the oath of office to President-elect Barack Obama in January; several officials in charge of inaugural festivities; megachurch pastor Rick Warren, who will deliver the invocation; and the Rev. Joseph E. Lowery, who will deliver the benediction.
Obama was not named in the suit.
"If he (Obama) chooses to ask for God's help, I'm not going to challenge him," Newdow said, according to CNN. "I think it's unwise."
Newdow made similar attempts to take out God from inauguration ceremonies in 2001 and 2005 and was unsuccessful. This time, he believes he'll lose again but hopes to eventually succeed.
Calling the lawsuit a "publicity stunt," Scott Walter, executive director of the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, said in a statement, "Newdow's lawsuit over the inauguration is a lot like the streaker at the Super Bowl: a pale, self-absorbed distraction. And anybody who looks at it carefully can see there's not much there."
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Hi there gerbonic!
Whatever made you think that atheists were sad, miserable suffering people? Wishful thinking? Projection, I would say. I am a perfectly contented atheist doing what all normal people do, you know, living a nice life, with family, friends, and interesting things to do. I have no fear of heaven or hell or gods, as I know that such superstitions are non-existent. As is sin. It seems to me that people like you are so terrified of our blithe acceptance of this wonderful, this only, life, it makes you nuts to see we are content. I am also at this ID at AOL and am always happy to disabuse you of your erroneous notions.
I would just like everybody to take the time to imagine the life of an atheist from childhood to adulthood and think about all the times things they went through and not having the right guidance they fell off the road and became an atheist. Its like all other sin. God will surely judge them as he is a just God, but he also longs to be reunited with them and he is pained by their loss. The increase in atheism should be a sign to Christians to be more compassionate towards those who don't understand Christianity. Some people speak the "Word of God" but they are not living the word of God. The Pharisees knew the "Word" perfectly yet they were white washed tombs. Think about the lives of the lost and put yourself in their tomb. Sit and imagine what it is like. Put yourself in their shoes the moment they lost their faith and the pain, anger, frustration, and fear that these people went through and live with. The lost who appear here trolling are puffed up with pride, but underneath they are still lost and ultimately their lives are devoid of reason. That is the truth. They come here seeking to assuage their pain by reinforcing to themselves their negative idea of Christian's and of the church in general. They come here to troll and it makes them feel better because they are received with cold condescending "truth tellers" and they say to themselves, “I am right, there is nothing more to Christianity than these cold hearts who do not want me here." I guarantee you this people who cause even the smallest to stumble will be held accountable. You never really know what someone is dealing with in their heart, and self proclaimed atheists are often struggling with belief but are turned off by the Church and often are looking for one person to Love them as Christ would have. That’s my life experience…
I am here to speak the Word of God. If you call it lowering myself to their level, that is your opinion.
so if all they are doing is coming on here to bash, then they are trolling and you reduce yourself to their level by even responding to them
Well,
All the atheists that have come on here are not looking for answers. They are looking to bash Christianity. There is a difference. You said you struggled with atheism. These people don't. They are fine and dandy with their decision to reject God. There is a difference.
To Delight in the Lord:
Its guys like you that made guys like WW aheists. You are very abrasive with him. He isn't a Christian, he doesn't think like a Christian, he has a different paradigm. I am speaking as a Christian who long struggled with atheism and agnosticism. There are legitimate philisophical arguments to atheism. If you really want to argue with an atheist you have to have the guts to take in the atheists philisophy and come out with you Christian beliefs intact. I have walked through that fire and I know its hard, but many here seem to have to care as to what an atheist actually feels in regards to our beloved Christianity. I would say most have suffered at the hands of 'Christians'.
Now you can say, "well i have too", but you are just bragging on yourself. maybe everyones not like you and they decided to become atheists after getting knocked around by so many Christian's.
Seriously... Atheists need love too.
"It sounds as tho you have a lot of anger towards christians that you have come in contact with in the past. "
Hey, don't feel bad. I'm not too happy with some of the "Christians" I've come in contact with myself and I've been a Christian for 35 years!
America as a whole is a spoiled country and the Christians here are no different. In the Philippines people would invite you over and spend 2 weeks wages to prepare a nice meal. Keep in mind that (at that time) an average job would pay only about $3 US for a 12-14 hr/day. Still, the "nice meal" would be a common supper for the US.
We need to be careful not to judge Christianity by our culture either.
To wwfsmd:
It sounds as tho you have a lot of anger towards christians that you have come in contact with in the past. As the old saying goes "don't judge a book by its cover" not all christians are threatened by a nice dialogue, however by reading over your post i have noticed a quite distenctive atheist sound to it. Does that mean that no matter the answer a christian gives you it will be wrong because as you stated in one of your post, God doesn't exist. And if a christian brings their religion into it, then they are feeling threatened. I can understand that, when you don't stand for truth anything can become the truth for you. Good luck with that and with what ever "truth" you find in life...
"If a Christian doesn't agree with somebody, he censors him."
Nope, only when some hatemonger like yourself calls people childish names.... Learn to be more respectful or you will be flagged often...
Actually i would like to see Obama counter sue, Newdow is violating his constitutional right to exercise his religion. Oh wait this is Obama, he will prolly bow to the wishes of the few rather then take a stand for what is right....
WTF...no explaination on this site please. It shouldn't post anyway. :-0
"If a Christian doesn't agree with somebody, he censors him."
Now, now...I'm a Christian and you know I don't flag people....
And if proscience disagrees with someone, he insults them.
What a surprise...
PS: I doubt your "WTF" stands for World Tennis Federation. Could you explain it to us?
If a Christian doesn't agree with somebody, he censors him.
"Seperation of church and state" Is a term that Thomas Jefferson used in a 5th draft of a letter to the Danbury Conn. Baptist Church(a letter he never sent). Can anyone answer how much of the text of the Bill of Rights Thomas Jefferson helped write?
The clause "establishment of religion" was devised to prevent any state or the federal government from declaring an official state religion so as to allow all faiths to be able to practice without harrasment from the government. It seems the athiests now want all faiths to be harrased by the government.
"Newdow's lawsuit wouldn't be necessary if America's politicians respected our constitution. "
Newdow wouldn't have filed the suit if he respected our constitution.
and yet, it's still not infringing on the atheist's rights if the president wants that phrase in his inauguration. it's just atheists pathetic attempt to ignore God.
Ah-----wwf isnt that kind of like a two year old temper tantrum? I'll take my ball and go home? Please know if you would bother to look at all the evidence you would find that there is a God and He did send His Son to die and rise again to give mankind a chance at reconcillation whats more He is waiting for you. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom
the atheist's showing has been just as poor....especially since their record puts christianity's to shame.
Questions are clearly not tolerated at this end of Christianity. Someone who requires a reason to believe something is equated with Mao and Stalin, who were not at all reasonable people. If I require a reason for believing a fantastic claim, then I am somehow like the KKK?
This proves that not only do Christian posters on this site have no answers, but simple questions are so threatening to their beliefs that they resort to name-calling in lieu of any substantial response. Not only is this childish, it shows their similarity to fundamentalists of other faiths.
It has been a sad showing for the Christian faith, but my expectations get lower with every Christian blog or newsletter I come across. Those I found here are already lost. Beyond reason. Too rigid to be kind, and too afraid to think.
I feel sorry for you.
I will concentrate my efforts on the middle ground from now on: Those who have not yet been convinced to take mythology at face value. Those who still base their morality on human happiness rather than ancient prejudices. Those who can see the beauty of the garden without having to imagine fairies living beneath.
I wish you all well, but I'm too honest to continue to hope for any meaningful dialog here at the religious fringe. I'll take my answer off the air, as they say. I believe I've already seen your response.
escept that the KKK toned it down a bit.
tliml,
ah yes...the KKK. the protestant's version of catholic priests....
tliml, I guess you might know since your recent racist comments toward Africans are much in line with the beliefs of the KKK.
-jester
"Actually atheism is alot like Islam, if you don't believe what they believe, they'll just kill you."
Like the KKK, right?
iaccepthim,
but wait! pseudo-atheists will whine that those people really arent atheists! of that they were killing "religious people".
yeah...and the holocaust never happened either.
Hi all setting aside the substantive questions involved I guess one of my objections is Newdowns self acknowledged abuse of the legal system. He states that he expects to lose this suit which he was previously unsuccessful with. He intends to sue but cites no LEGAL basis for his suit. By definition this is seems a legaly frivilous lawsuit. One notices particularly that he does not cite the establishment clause of the constitution. This of course is because other similar challenges have routinely and consistently been rejected. The "objectionable phrase" is no different legally than the phrase "under God" in the pledge or the opening of congress with prayer or the phrase "in god we trust" is on currency. In as much as this is a legally firvolous suit one can only hope that the gentleman is treated without discrimination and assessed all of the court costs of a suit which he himself plans on losing.
"actually, atheism is a lot like islam. if you don't believe the way they do, they'll just kill you."
around 7 million for Chairman Pol Pot
around 20 million for Chairman Stalin
around 50 million for Chairman Mao
All with the theory of taking God out of the peoples life so they will be forced to turn to Government.
Thanks Mathetes and IAccpeptHim,
I have wondered about that myself.
That explains everything and the website that showed all the pictures of the brains of Atheists...they were brains; all those crazy spaghetti-like strands, right?
actually, atheism is a lot like islam. if you don't believe the way they do, they'll just kill you.
i want to sue to take atheism out of school! atheism kills hundreds of thousands of people every day. i don't think that's something i want to promote to my kids.
"And thats a good thing, otherwise we are just sheep. "
Umm...Jesus is our shepard and we are his sheep....
It's not about what you believe in but who. My dad always told me to know for sure what God says in the Bible. Follow HIS rules for the Bible and not mans. Just because someone works in the ministry doesn't automatically make them right.
Sounds right revolutionary coming from a Dean of a Bible College and an ordained minister, eh?
Flying Spaghetti Monster!?! WOW
As someone posted earlier
"When a man ceases to believe in God, he doesn't believe in nothing. He believes in anything."
ANYTHING !!!! Yikes!!!
Iaccepthim,
His handle stands for "What would Flying Spaghetti Monster do?" The FSM is an atheist parody of God; google it for tons more info than you could ever want. Another name used by atheists in their posts here include "magic sky fairy."
Hi everyone! The Christian Post now has a Facebook page that you can join to show your friends what you're reading and to also get your friends engaged in your Christian news discussions! Check it out and spread the word! http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Christian-Post/41093998634
Just another thought before I leave this...to DRJ.
What good are Salt and Light in Eternity?
Salt and Light are of the earth and we must be both while occupying His earth in these dark times; Eternity will have the Light of God.
"It is training people to produce fruit for God..."
Fruit FOR God? We can do nothing FOR God.
The most we can do is walk in the works He prepared ahead of time:
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
thelordismylight
Didn't get that?
You either need more light or more Lord.
Delight-
Gosh try to keep it under a page and a half. When you removed most of the "eloquence for the sake of eloquence" words from what you said it boiled down to nothing. You said like a whole page of absolutely nothing.
I'm sure God wouldn't want His name in Obama's inauguration speech. I certainly wouldn't want anything to do with him! He's a quasi-christian, greedy, corrupt, no-good cheat. And even worse he's a DEMOCRAT! I'll give him credit though. Americans must love him. Since, you know, like a hundred thousand of them voted for him ten or eleven times.
wwfsmd
It's regretable you don't know or understand the love the true and living God.
"There is no reason to believe the bible, and the bible is what all your insisting is based on."
One of the reason I have believe The written word of God is the knowledge of what God has done in my life. When I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and was indwelt with the Holy Spirit I began to be convicted of things I had done and the way I was living my life. The things I was being convicted of were not things I conjured up through day dreams or my imagination. These things were revealed to me by the Holy Spirit(I often asked the question "was that a sin?"), this was the start of Gods work in transforming my life to the life He wants me to live. Over the past years I have come a long way but I know I have a long way to go.
I trust in the bible and it hasn't failed me yet. Your lack of understanding of Gods word is because you don't have the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you. As is written in John14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
God is real! He wants to have a relationship with you but it must be a relationship on His terms. I hope hear when we say that God is real. There is no way we can pay for the sins we commit so God provided Jesus Christ as the sacrafice to pay for our sins.
As far as the Oath of office goes you claim to have a thick skin how are the words "So help me God" going to in anyway hurt you.
By the way what does fsm stand for?
ww
I suppose some would want me to tell you to go to hell but I won't.
You need to read for comprehension, ww. The things I've described are all the work of both atheistic AND secular humanistic influence on this society.
If there are more "Christians" in jail it may just be because that's where God is saving the foolish things of the world. I can bet you there are far more atheists in jail; you don't need to profess the foolishness of the atheist's position to be one. Anyone living outside of the love and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ is godless by default.
"I used to carry a bible around", perhaps instead of just carrying around a Bible, it would have been better had you read enough to meet the Author. Very sorry for your loss.
"When a man ceases to believe in God, he doesn't believe in nothing. He believes in anything."
G.K. Chesterton.
Drj
You're preaching to the choir on the bit about the lack of workers in the field but you neglect to see how others are working in the Body, we all have supporting roles in the furthering the cause of Christ, fufilling the Great Commission in the following ways:
"Rom 12:6-13 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith;
or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching;
he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good.
Be kindly affectionate to one another with brotherly love, in honor giving preference to one another; not lagging in diligence, fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer;
distributing to the needs of the saints, given to hospitality."
To make a distinction without a difference is a bit-nit picky and in violation of verse 10.
You sound as if you want an argument or have a bad opinion of your fellow field workers. Christians standing against the sins of society are acting as Good stewards and not trying to clean up the world to make a kingdom here on earth...they simply feel it is not God honoring to allow the culture to rage without a peep from the city on a hill, to hold the darkness back until the Restrainer is taken away; "For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way." 2Thes 2:7.
The work of the Holy Spirit is thus "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment"... (John 16:8)....our ministry is no different.
Instead of looking for areas of disagreements about how one is gifted to fulfill the work of the Holy Spirit while we occupy this earth, we need to be thankful for the diversity of Gifts the Lord gives all of His children, we need to pray for one another and encourage one another so His name to be lifted up on the earth, and He will draw all men to Himself.
One better then that is how can one say they are Christian yet are for the killing of the most innocent of all--the unborn. Or for the twisting of scripture to condone the gay lifestyle. Gods Blessing in Christ Tom
wwfsmd-
You raised the issue of voting for Obama who you also believe is a Christian. Is that a cultural Christian or what? How can one be a real Christian but acknowledges that he believes that there are more ways to heaven besides Jesus?
zabud,
I appreciate your non-argumentative intention. I understand that you mean well. I would stay away from the word "pity" though. I don't think it serves your purpose. I have a pretty thick skin, but many will not take well to the assumption that they need to be pitied.
When speaking to non-Christians, I'd also suggest staying away from the King James English. I know it sounds more poetic to you, but it comes off as preachy and out-of-touch to many. I'd grant an exception for the psalms, which would probably sound pretty lame without the archaic language.
You are not arguing, I'll grant you that. You are insisting, however. I'd actually prefer an argument. An argument implies that there may be some substance to your claims.
There is no reason to believe the bible, and the bible is what all your insisting is based on. If you don't have an argument, you aren't going to change an atheist's mind about your 3-in-1 god. Do you not realize that your scripture sounds the same to an atheist as Hindu scripture, or Islamic scripture?
Atheism in no more a religion than not playing a game is a game itself. Your anger is showing now. April Fool's day? You can look that one up. That is simply an insult, and will not help further your evangelist goals.
"Well, then set me straight. You believe the only folks electable to government office should be faithless..." -Delight
No, I don't. You are putting words into my mouth. I voted for Obama, who is Christian, when I could have voted for the Libertarian candidate, who is most likely atheist. This is what I mean by not grasping the concept.
There is only ONE uncloseted atheist in Congress. How dare you blame anything our government has done on "godless ways." That phrase, by the way, sounds really silly to someone who doesn't believe in gods. It's like saying "your evil leprechaunless ways."
Blaming crime on atheism is equally ridiculous. There are more christians in jail than atheists. Yes, there are more christians in the general population, so you'd expect this, but the percentage of atheist criminals is smaller than the percentage of atheists in the general population. Perhaps there's a reason for this.
The devil incarnate world leader? Do you think I have not read Revelation? Atheists in this country are often quite familiar with the bible. The bible is the reason many of us became atheists. How you can justify all the contradictions, ludicrous claims, and divinely justified cruelty in it is beyond me. That is a concept I don't grasp.
I was baptised. I used to carry a bible around, even to school. But after many years I saw the light of reason and the universe opened up. I wouldn't give up the clarity of truth and the awesome wonder of the natural world for the comfort of an imaginary afterlife. I can no longer swallow the lie, and I no longer want to.
Thank you 'Prophet'. Delightnhim, I wish you and many other Christians would realize that evangelism is the first order of the Lord. The family of God has nearly all "gone to seed" on social issues rather than planting the seed of truth through Spirit-inspired, Spirit empowered, fruit producing witnessing! FOr 35 years I've watched church members sit piously chattering about social injustice and the down-fall of Christianity in this nation. For future reference here are the two absolute mandates of the Lord: 1. Go! 2. Make disciples! Further attempts at culturizing Christianity will see the further-ebbing of the influence of Christianity. We are not here to make the world a better place. Your salt and light references reflect the usual misunderstanding of the Words of Jesus. You are talking about the world, He is speaking of eternity. We ARE NOT citizens of this world, but of heaven. If the church was more involved with the teachings of Jesus there would be more discipling going on. What is discipling? It is not preparing people for life on earth! It is training people to produce fruit for God...that means souls! We are not to be caught up in popularity contests with pseudo-christian movements. We are to be like Jesus and His first disciples. We are to be fearless purveyors of the love of God to all people, whether they like it or not! Will we be rewarded on earth for our ministry? NO! Jesus said that those who have their minds set on the things of the earth will hate us...kill us! I realize that First Century evangelism is frowned upon in the political church of today, but since the Commission has never been retracted. The order still stands! Go! Make disciples! And when Jesus comes, may He find you and me doing just that. Amen?
We defend our faith in God, we don't need to defend God Himself. He doesn't need our help.
DRj--"We do not have to defend our God;we only have to obey"...
Defending the Gospel of Jesus Christ IS obedience and is part of the Great Commission.
Sounds simple on the face of it, but you're missing a huge work of the Body of Christ for exposing unsound doctrine; fighting the doctrine of demons, being available to God in bringing back the lost sheep, exhorting our brothers toward good works, speaking up for God's Word when it is being twisted by those who wish to give permission unto sin. Professing the Lord Jesus Christ in a fallen world with one Voice. To be a Beacon to those who are seeking.
I think that is being accomplished by the Christians who post on CP and although I see a lot of foolish arguments, we can help point that out to one another.
Not all work God has for the Church is in the field of street evengelism; the great commission requires great works within our Churches to strengthen; helping one another to live Holy Lives as we see the day of God's Wrath drawing near.
We really don't know who reads these Posts so all Christian posters must learn to be pleasing to God, bringing Him Glory through it and put our own CP posting under the Lordship of Christ. Let the Holy Spirit lead; He obviously provided a forum here for us and while we still have the freedom of speech we should preach the Gospel and exhort one another for who so ever comes online to see what the Christians say.
"Walk in wisdom toward those who are outside, redeeming the time. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one." Col4:5,6
We don't give up and stop talking to the world because we don't think they want to hear.... we are to be salt and light in areas we are gifted and keep on defending His word; His word never comes back void, it always does some one good! Let's not limit the many ways God uses His church; His Body to reach the lost.
"only rejecting THE LORD and in doing so, they opt out of His Kingdom..." DRJ, I did a lot of rejecting before I saw the Light, I don't want to make a rush to judgement on when someone rejects God for the final time. As long as there is breath there is hope. God give us the wisdom to descern between the two.
"Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you."
WOW! Three days spent on arguing with people who reject the Creator! For half the time it took God to create the world, atheists have tied the hands of those who should be busy evangelizing those who haven't heard the Gospel. Let's all make a resolution to share the truth about God's love for every person, offer the plan of salvation, and then, if the message is rejected, move on to the next unbeliever. If you already know the Word, you know that the Lord said not to continue to cast pearls before swine...it is not only unproductive, but potentially dangerous! We do not have to defend our God; we only have to obey His commission to joyfully spread His Word. No one is ever going to reject YOU for telling the truth, they are only rejecting THE LORD and in doing so, they opt out of His Kingdom. Amen?
An "America" would never have even crossed an atheist's mind. "All men are created equal?" " "...endowed with certain INALIENABLE rights?"
It's a sure bet: There were no atheists signing the Constitution.
This nstion was built on a biblical tradition which the Founding Fathers even supported, it is unwise to define being an American without recognizing the foundation of what this country was founded on ,God and he being the revealer of freedom.
ww says to delight; "You clearly don't grasp the concept."
Well, then set me straight. You believe the only folks electable to government office should be faithless; either they don't have a faith they will live by or they have faith only in human ability, which takes much more faith than faith in God!
Wake up and smell the coffee...secular humanists and atheists since WWII have had their ways into our government-run-everything; from the take over of our national Educational system, to the mind numbing welfare system, to rabid, tree-hugging environmental lobby groups who lobby for rules to hobble our capitalist free-enterprise economy, to pro-choice advocates encouraging the deaths of our future work force. Look around, we are in shambles.
Your godless ways have infiltrated our society for our destruction; crime rates rising, fear and uncertainty, lawlessness abounding, economic collaspe due to greed, rising rates of STDs from glorifiying sex and trying to remove the consequenses of casual sex by the disposal of millions of 'inconvenient' babies since the inception of Roe v Wade, taking down the 10 commandments off court room walls, forbidding any expression of faith in the school room to the public square and leaving this country in a huge spiritual vacuum.
You will get your one-world government but it will not be your Utopia. You will have religion one day, religion in the worst way; in order for you to buy and sell, you will have to give alliegence to a future world leader in order to feed yourself. If you don't have faith in an Eternal God now and choose life, then take your chances with the devil incarnate world leader and die. Now, there's a concept you NEED to grasp, ww.
In that case I really don't need to grasp your concept.
My Dear Atheist Friends, I truly pity you and your organization. I am not intending this to be argumentitive. I know very well that there is a God and that he sent his "Only begotten son, Jesus Christ, because He (GOD)so loved the world (mankind whom he created to have fellowship with) so that whosoever ( everyone has descended from Adam's race and are in sin <anyone who rejects God, The ONLY ONE GOD creator of all things> and that when Jesus Christ when he died on the cross, shedding His blood for the remission of sin, when one accepts HIM as Lord and Savior)beliveth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life....But he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16&18 Also, I can say unapologetically, God said the following about those who say there is no GOD: "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.. Psalm 14:1 Also, there is a special day set aside for those who practice the "Atheist Religion" - April 1ST , April Fools Day. That is as plan and simple. Like I said, I pity you all and feel for you, because God Loves You and so do I. I just don't want to see anyone face the final judgement of God. Rev. Dale D. Connell, Evangelist, restoring the Land Mark Ministry
The Founding Fathers were fully aware of what they were writing and who they meant. Whether there were atheists, agnostics and such is a moot point. These were people who believed so strongly that God was with them that many of them pledged their lives, property and honor. They did not write with the intention of avoiding offending the sensibilities of those of other religious beliefs, but moved with the conviction of the Holy Spirit and assurance of God's word that what they were doing was good and just. They wrote it because they lved it! Unlike many of us today, seeking to be wiser than God.
Daniel Paul
<<Starting in the 60's American society began questioning everything.>>
And thats a good thing, otherwise we are just sheep.
Delight-
You clearly don't grasp the concept.
Daniel Paul-
I agree that the oath is only part of the ceremony. But that is indeed the part this lawsuit is about. The devil is in the details, right?
Atheism is a religion? You know better than that. You are just trying to get me excited. I'm not that easy.
mtgburrell-
Your answer to Chip was right on. I've read many of your posts and find them more honest and compassionate than most on this site.
Some of the founding fathers were practicing Christians, some were agnostics, deists, atheists and more. Most, however, were "culturally" Christian. You should not read toomuch into "the year of our Lord."
Many people do not realize the the closing statement of the U.S. Constitution closes with the statement "Done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth."
So I suggest that if the Founding Fathers really intended to produce a document free of religious references, they would not have recognized the time without acknowledging "our Lord."
"hint of religion in government would be divisive,"
Absolutely!!! Atheism is a religion so keeping the name of God out is divisive. I am SO glad they understand our position.
"The presidential oath is not decided by the president. This is not a free speech issue. The oath is in the constitution (Article II, Section I.) There is no mention of any gods in the oath. Look it up."
The oath is only a part of the Inauguration. The oath will be given as written I'm sure. The rest is not outlined in the Constitution and up to the President elect. It is free speech at that point.
"hint of religion in government would be divisive,"
Does this mean we only elect faithless people to sit in government?
No one has a right for freedom FROM religion, We have the freedom to worship other gods.
The choice not to worship has always been a given.
Atheists: there is a God outside your little universe whether you like it or not. Get over it...go eat, drink and be merry; tomorrow you may die.
It's going to suck to be you one day when you succeed in driving God out of American life, altogether. There is no human utopia out there for you, there never was.
This earthy existence is the only heaven an atheist will ever know; this earthy existence for the born-again believer will be all the hell we'll ever have to suffer.
Aren't you glad for free choice?
The presidential oath is not decided by the president. This is not a free speech issue. The oath is in the constitution (Article II, Section I.) There is no mention of any gods in the oath. Look it up.
Judges doing the swearing-in ceremony have traditionally added the "so help me God" in themselves, just as presidents have traditionally placed their hand on a bible. The lawsuit is about the judge adding words to the constitutionally decided oath. Judges have authority to interpret the law, not add words to it. This is not a case-law situation... yet.
No one wants to restrict Obama's speech. The injection of religion into a constitutional matter is the issue. No judge can make you swear by a deity you don't believe in when you are in court. This is no different. The oath was decided by vote. I'm sure somebody wanted to put God into it, but they lost. The constitutional congress understood that any hint of religion in government would be divisive, and they were right.
Obama will say "so help me God" whether prompted or not. There is too much pressure for him not to. He would'n want to ruin his little kiss-*ss moment with the religious right during this ceremony. He already invited Mr. Purpose-Driven. It is too late for him to have a secular ceremony. In fact, if Newdow win this in court and Obama says "so help me God" where the judge does not, it's going to make him look even better to religious folks.
Future presidents, however, may feel less pressure to inject religion into their ceremonies, especially if our country's trend toward secularity continues. Religious prompting from a judge is not about freedom of speech, it's about a religious group asserting its beliefs over others using an inappropriate government platform.
"If he (Obama) chooses to ask for God's help, I'm not going to challenge him," Newdow said...
Um, yeah. Now there's a hypocrite. Does he want to take the words out? Or leave them in? If Newdow gets elected president, he can do whatever he feels like in that instant. Apparently, Obama wants it in there.
The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The fact that athiests have so much hate towards the Lord just shows that they have emotional ties to the Lord. They must believe in Him or they wouldn't be so angry, they just wouldn't care, they'd be indifferent to what the Christians or majority want to do (pray to our God through a presidential inauguration).
The Holy Spirit can break down that wall of hate and I hope He will for Michael Newdow and other athiests.
Christ is Lord.
Let's get down to the root if we can. Starting in the 60's American society began questioning everything. We gained momentum and now we have trouble believing in anything. "They worship me with their lips but their hearts are far from me." Our definition of "believe" has become so watered down that it has little flavor anymore. "Believe in yourself" is the new creed and most find little to believe in themselves.
Our faith has degraded to "everyone did what was right in their own eyes." The problem is nothing quite fits. Being a computer person myself I know that just because a card will proform the function you want it to doesn't mean it will fit right in the mother board. We try to make so much fit but it doesn't.
If we don't put God in His rightful place (and thus show others how to) the only thing left is to argue about it in court.
One thing that will defeat the Adversary more than anything else is to laugh at his antics. The atheists' attempts to silence God are so ridiculous that it deserves, as one put it, only a mere chuckle ...or perhaps ignoring them entirely. If my comment to them to "go take a flying leap" elicits their response to give even more money to their pitiful cause, then likewise their futile arguments just fire me up even more to take a stand for the truth of Jesus Christ and the eternal Gospel of His Kingdom. Remember, this old conflict between the rulers of this world and the rule of God's kingdom is not new and will not quit until Jesus as Lord returns to put down all evil and rebellion.
You know this man can sue to his hearts content and the church will only grow stronger. Will any of you stop believing or teaching your children about the love of God in Christ Jesus? I know I won't and all this kind of stuff does for me is make me more determined to stand for what I know is the Truth of God.
Talmid:We should begin a prayer chain for this man's salvation...any one interested?
Talmid I'll put him right next to Proscience on my list.
He who sits in the heavens laughs. Well, kind of chuckles. This silliness is not worth a full laugh. Well, I hate to see the chain emails that will come of this. No one will believe this story because of all the false ones. I'm sure I will get related morphed emails concerning this for the next ten years. They will start out something like, "Today the athiest Madeline Murray O'Hare filed suit in Federal Court . . . ."
Government cannot exsist without God, And by God I mean Jesus Christ. America cannot exsist without God.
And as we shall see in the near future, A Government, And a country without God, sinks to all manner of evil and debauchery,
Atheists have the freedom to live in America as they please because of our beliefe in God, yet they still want God out of Public view,
when that truly happens in America, and it very well may, then maybe even they will become believers.
Mr. Newdow wants no freedom of religion for anybody, just because he's too much of a party pooper for the overwhelming rest of us. We should begin a prayer chain for this man's salvation...any one interested?
I am getting so sick of this litigation baloney! I wish these atheists would get transported back to the 1780's or 1790's and pull this simplemindedness. George Washington would personally punch them in the face.
"The suit is to remove the judge's prompt for a declaration of belief, which violates the first amendment."
Trying to stop Obama from HIS Inauguration containing references to God is like trying to tell someone to take the God stuff out of their own wedding. A Presidential Inauguration is a reflection of the man being elected. This action is a violation of Obama's free speech (along with any other President). My guess is if an athiest got elected he could be sworn in on a copy of the Humanist Manifesto and not have any prayer.
In short, "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" or something like that.
ww you and I both know the real reason this is being contested: atheists detest God and feel that God rejects them, when in reality God sent His Son to die for you. But this kind of love you do not understand without revelation by the Spirit of God -- which He is willing to give someone if they are an honest seeker after truth.
ww, so if I say that enough times to you I could force you to file bankruptcy!!:) Hope you have a good New Year!
ww wrote: "The suit is to remove the judge's prompt for a declaration of belief, which violates the first amendment."
How is this against the first amendment?
Obama gets to choose the Bible he is being sworn in on, but cannot choose to be prompted by his officiator to say "so help me God"?
"America's God and Country Encyclopedia of Quotations" by William J. Federer:
Robert Aitken (1734-1802), on January 21, 1781, as publisher of The Pennsylvania Magazine, petitioned Congress for permission to print bibles, as there was a shortage in America due to trade with England being cut off. The Continental Congress, September 10, 1782, in response to this shortage of Bibles, approved and recommended to the people that the Holy Bible be printed by Robert Aitken of Philadelphia. This first American Bible was to be "a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools":
Whereupon, Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled...recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorize [Robert Aitken] to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper.
The suit is to remove the judge's prompt for a declaration of belief, which violates the first amendment. Nobody is claiming the president can't say "so help me God." This article, of course, did not mention that. The prompt constitutes a religious test for office, which is illegal.
Government support of religion and personal freedom of religion are two different things. Why can't christians understand this? No atheist cares what you believe or how many times you say "Jesus" in a conversation, but the government represents all of us and must be completely neutral on all religious matters.
Every time someone tells me to take a flying leap I donate money to an atheist legal fund.
My message to the atheists who want to remove all mention of God from society....go take a flying leap.
Let the atheist take the oath on a devil's bible in
devil's name and be the president of their homes.
Let the atheist take the oath on a devil's bible in
devil's name and be the president of their homes.
I am curious as to how much a lawsuit like this costs.
If Christians keep taking these things for granted, we may someday have to spend some money if Newdow does eventually succeed.
Just a thought.