Focus on the Family got to work this week in explaining in detail why it pulled from its website an interview with a Mormon author.
“We intended no insult,” expressed ministry spokesman Gary Schneeberger, in a statement. “[W]e merely miscalculated on how best to feature Glenn [Beck], whom we greatly appreciate.”
Last week, some time before Christmas celebrations, Focus on the Family took down the interview with Beck amid complaints from the evangelical community over the former CNN host’s Mormon ties.
The interview, produced by a freelance reporter in Colorado Springs and not Focus on the Family, focuses on Beck’s recently released book, The Christmas Sweater, which has been on the New York Times Best Sellers list for Hardcover Fiction for six consecutive weeks and currently ranks at No. 1.
In the interview, Beck talked about what Christmas means to him, how he came to write the book, and what message he hoped readers will take away from the book.
“Sometimes redemption has been made into a word that people don't understand,” he said. “They need to know it's true, it's real. It's not a word, it's a life-changing force. It's transformed my life, who I was to the very core of my being. If it wasn't for me accepting the gift that the Lord gave to me, I'd be dead today.”
Since the interview was published, a number of Christians throughout the blogosphere raised flags and sounded alarms, concerned that Focus on the Family was compromising central doctrinal truths to win the culture war.
“They use Mr. Beck's story as a way to show that hope can be found in God, which is true enough; the problem is that Mr. Beck's god is not the Triune God of the Bible nor is his Jesus the Jesus of the Bible,” commented Dustin S. Seger, pastor of Shepherd’s Fellowship of Greensboro, N.C., in the co-authored blog “Grace in the Triad.”
Beck, however, maintains that the book's message can be and has been embraced by people of different faiths and should not be “censored” because of his own personal religious views. The book tells the narrative of a boy named Eddie who embarks on a dark and painful journey on the road to manhood.
“The Christmas Sweater is a story about the idea of Christmas as a time for redemption and atonement,” Beck expressed in a released statement after the interview was pulled from Focus on the Family’s CitizenLink website.
“Whatever your beliefs about my religion, the concept of religious tolerance is too important to be sacrificed in response to pressure from special interest groups, especially when it means bowing to censorship,” he added.
According to Schneeberger, however, Focus on the Family could not intimate to its evangelical base that the differences in Mormon faith and the historic evangelical faith are inconsequential.
“We can, and do, gladly cooperate with friends outside of the evangelical heritage on common causes; but in no case do we intend to alter our clear distinction as unwaveringly grounded in evangelical theology,” he explained.
But Schneeberger made sure to also distance the ministry from another that had strongly rebuked it for the article’s posting.
“[W]e do not condone the tone of communications put out from UnderGround Apologetics,” he clarified, referring to the controversial apologetics ministry that spoke out against Focus on the Family last week. “And we can without reservation say that the group's news release had nothing to do with our decision to pull the article from publication." Continue >>
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I am mystified that so many who deign to call themselves Christian would violate one of the 10 commandments, and "bear false witness against <their> neighbor." I have no problem with those who choose to disagree on points of doctrine, otherwise we'd all be either Catholic, Southern Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal or whatever. I was raised a Southern Baptist, and I don't remember being taught about the "Trinity" like perhaps an Anglican or Catholic, but about "The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost." Neither could I understand other denominations who said that they were all the same when Christ prayed to the Father that we might be ONE with them as he was with the Father. Christ's baptism shows three separate and distinct parts of the Godhead: Christ being baptised, Father speaking from heaven, and the Holy Ghost descending in the form of a dove. ONE God is obviously ONE IN PURPOSE, but not necessarily in ONE BODY.
It is offensive to call 14 million Mormons a "Cult" simply due to a disagreement over biblical doctrine, when protestants and Catholics can not agree on doctrine either. It is offensive to say Mormons don't worship the same God, nor the same Jesus Christ because one disagrees with their doctrine, or because one interprets the same biblical passage differently. However, to distort what Mormons claim as their doctrine, faith and belief in order to further one's own argument, places a person in league with the father of all lies, Lucifer!
Mathetes and Prophet, I think ya scared them off...lol
Reading some of what they wrote concerns me in that they don't understand what the LDS beliefs are. Keep the faith... God Bless
mathetes,
Amen. Keep the faith. And continue to not compromise the truth. God bless you.
You're right, Prophet. I guess asking him to back up his claim was just too much for him. Christschurch did the same thing after saying all those who spoke the truth about LDS doctrine were liars. Guess they weren't prepared to actually discuss + debate.
God bless you, brother.
mathetes,
Maybe Rockwell's debating is of the guerilla variety? Come in, call people names, and then run off so you don't have to answer for anything.
Welcome, PRockWell. Simce you said the last "few" posters, you must be including me among those you called "bigotians." I looked up the definition and don't see how your name-calling fits. Would you please explain how asking someone to substantiate their claim is bigotry? Thanks and God bless you.
Rockwell,
Four...hence the phrase at the beginning of my last post which says "I'm not sure if this is the thinking of all Mormons...." Do I need to clarify that for you?
Okay, prophet (with a little p), just how many "Mormons" did you ask?
Since there was nothing derogatory about my last post...let me repost it.
I'm not sure if this is the thinking of all Mormons, but the ones I know, when I asked them if they were Christians, replied "No, we're Mormons."
I hate that I'm so late to this discussion...I thrive on chatting about bigotry with a bunch of "bigotians"...especially these past few posters!!
I don't know if it's a reflection on all Mormons, but the ones I've met, I've asked them if they were Chritians. They said "No, we're Mormons."
Regarding Christchurch??'s comment...seems he cannot not make a distinction between disagreeing with the philosophy of an "ISM" and equating HATE for those who practise the "ISM".
No one here at CP "hates' Mormons but the "ISM" needs to be investigated due to the claims it makes against Jesus Christ and the Church He establishes in the Bible.
Which should concern the blogger under a name such as 'Christchurch' that Christ's words be honored, no? The "ISM" has stated that the gates of Hell prevailed against Jesus Christ.
Is it a full moon? This Mr Fire+Brimstone comes on damning all of us for pointing this out...how much of the true Christ can be in his 'church' with that attitude?
Christchurch,
No, we don't equate Mormons with Al-Qaida. Only you do. But, as for me, I sincerly question the claim that Mormons are "Christians". Because it is obvious they do not worship the same God that Christians do...even though they claim to.
Welcome, Christschurch.
You wrote: " Is it because you love a lie? These pages are brimming with them and many of these previouse bloggers are chuck full of hate."
Since you believe these posts are full of lies, it should not be hard for you to substantiate your claim. Please cite 3-4 examples of lies in these posts and the truth about each one.
Thanks for your help and God bless you.
To DelightntheLord
I think you and some of your buddy bloggers need to read
Rev. 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
After reading this blogg, I don't want to waste my time here. I have never seen such a concentration of lies. One would think that Mormons where al-Qaeda terrorist, you are way off track, infact you are going the opposite direction of Heaven.
Messages that contain flames or attacks, may be edited or removed, I have read many on this blog that do just that. Why they are not removed? Is it because you love a lie? These pages are brimming with them and many of these previouse bloggers are chuck full of hate. Sound familiar, maybe you need to read the Bible a little closer.
Prophet,
Please believe me, I'm not trying to argue with anyone. I just don't want any Christian to appear unlearned with so many nitpicking atheists about.
As for balancing of view of Jesus, I'm right with you: He's got to be so much more than our BFF. Malachi 3:2ff is one of those "holy fear" passages - our Lord is a refiner's fire who desires purity + holiness.
mathetes,
Yes, I understand that it is the "Revelation" of Jesus. Who Jesus truly is. But that is one of those arguing vain things.
But speaking of which, being the revelations of who Jesus is. And yet, people still want to cast Jesus in this "non-judgemental" "you-can-do-anything-you-want-because-I'm-all-about-love" light. If they would read Revelation, they would see who Jesus really is.
And Prophet, if you go back + read, I told you I did NOT disagree with your conclusion re: the warning in Rev. I just wanted all of us to be accurate in the name of the book.
Prophet,
"Peter was speaking of Paul's letters."
Exactly right. Peter said the unstable people twist Paul's letters as they do the "OTHER scriptures". See, Peter equated Paul's letters with the OT and possibly other NT books already in use in the churches.
"As pointed out before, it's singular="the Revelation"; no "s" on the end.'
Oh, that makes all the difference. Since there is no "s" on the end, then John MUST have been talking about the entire Bible.
Peter was speaking of Paul's letters. That in itself does not confirm that they were actual scriptures being used in preaching and such.
Wow, those typos have a way of keeping you humble!
Of course, that should have read, "Paul's letters". LOL!
Prophet,
You wrote: "Remember, the NT wasn't in place when John wrote Revelations."
1. As pointed out before, it's singular="the Revelation"; no "s" on the end.
2. Most all conservative scholars put the writing of Rev. at 90-95 A.D., meaning all the other NT books were written before it. Were they accepted as Scripture? Peter said Paul's letter were; see 2 Peter 3:15-16.
Well, needless to say...it is NOT GOOD to change ANY words or meanings in ANY book of the Bible either by adding or subtracting to it.
We are all agreed, not good.
1. Makes one a liar as in Proverbs 30:6, which is a gentle admonishment.
2. Would make one a false teacher; delivering one to "chains of darkness reserved for judgment" 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6. Stricter admonishment.
3. Revelation 22:16,17; adding to will bring on plagues and subtracting will blot one out of the Book of Life. Strongest admonishment.
It's hell and torment no matter what to add or subtract from Scripture with the idea to change the original intent or message by introducing doctrines of another gospel.
Narnie; If I said that I was Christ, would I be a Christian? It's in the name, isn't it?
Also, the Biblical writers never refered to the Bible as a "book", they always refered to them as the Scriptures. They always refered to an individual book as a book.
"And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?" Mark 12
"As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." Luke 3
"And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written," Luke 4
mathetes,
"The lower case "b" in your Bible is a man's interpretation of what he thinks John meant."
And the idea that John is talking about the entire Bible is mans interpretation of what he thinks John meant.
Remember, the NT wasn't in place when John wrote Revelations. So if John was talking about the Bible then he was talking only about the OT.
Prophet,
You wrote, "This book..." Book, small letter, meaning the book that had just been written...in other words the book of Revelations."
I am not disagreeing with your conclusion about the scope of that warning, but I need to remind you (I'm sure you know) the New Testament was written in Greek which did not use upper + lower case letters; it was all caps or all lower case. The lower case "b" in your Bible is a man's interpretation of what he thinks John meant.
The scripture in Revelations says "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
"This book..." Book, small letter, meaning the book that had just been written...in other words the book of Revelations.
oh it's narnie the carnie!
Narnie,
I read both of the two posts you have written here. It seems you believe that 'religion' is something one does homework on or takes a survey of people's opinions before deciding that's the one for you.
The point is Mormons have MORE than the Bible and that it CONTRADICTS the Bible, did you do your homework on that?
There's no cosmic scale that weighs out our good deeds against our bad deeds and all we have to do is have lots of good deeds.
Investigate this in Romans Chapter 3: "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God".
You need a bridge to get to God and Joseph Smith's not it, nor can a false Christ save.
Gee, Prophet, that is Revelation, no "S". How is it not an appropriate warning for the whole of prophectic Scripture? Found as the last two verses in the Bible, it's true for the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ and also true of anyone adding to any words to change the meaning of the message or any book of the Bible.
Narnie, are you a policeman? You are free to talk about Glenn Beck, go ahead, I won't censor you, by the way, "Mudslinging" is not a term for defending the truth of the Bible.
Oh, for goodness sake, give it up! Let's get back to the original reason for the article. A guy who happens to be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints writes a book and is interviewed about it. People who don't like his religion disagree with the posting of the interview and it is withdrawn from a website. End of story. Where did all this religious mud-slinging come from anyway? Find another forum for your lengthy sermons.
Delight,
That scripture in Revelations is talking about Revelations only. But there is a scripture in Proverbs that says the same thing about changing scriptures. I saw it posted a few times, but I can't remember exactly what it was.
Bree,
Are you "willing to give up false ideas for the truth"?
If you are reading anything outside of the Bible as proof text for your beliefs then you must look at again at the last Scripture written in the Bible that renounces any other authority or any other written words than those of the God (of the Bibile) alone. Revelation 22:18,19.
God knew men would come behind to change the Word and decieve many, that is why we have so many warnings to watch out for false teaching and false gospels.
Consider Paul's words to Timothy and the Church regarding Scripture;
2Ti 3:16,17 "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."
Could our divisions be that some have added to Scripture and some have denied the power of the Living God by contradicting Him and claiming God's truth has left the earth and a new gospel be born, a gospel 'restored'?
From speaking with women in Mormonism, I came to the conclusion that Mormonism is driven primarily by the woman. I know it sounds contradictory to say this of a rather patriarchial religion, but I think it's true. In order for the woman to have eternal life, she must be called out of the grave by her husband who has a secret name for her. She must be sure that her husband is worthy and preferrably a Temple Mormon.
Think about this for a moment, this is obviously a man's teaching especially a man's teaching from the mid 18th century with the bias that women were second class citizens...
but not true with God, He says in the Bible;
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galations 3:28 .
Additionally there is no marriage in the Bible; "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage"...Matthew 22:30.
So I ask you Bree, are you willing to investigate the truth of the Bible alone? Are you willing to give up false ideas for the truth?
Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away." Mark 13:31
and His words make Joseph Smith a liar, please don't depend on a liar for your eternal destiny.
the early church didn't believe that God was a glorified man. they didn't believe that Jesus wasn't the only son of God. if they did, then they weren't the real church, because that goes against the scriptures.
I believe in God the Father that is powerful enough to preserve His Word; the Bible to His people.
An Omniscient God, not one that was man turned God and not many Gods with individual planets to rule.
Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me."
All Mormonism is based on Joseph Smith's vision and Joesph Smith was not a trustworthy person, he was a criminal, he died in jail. He has contradicted God and added to Scripture, before first declaring that the gates of hell prevailed against the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
One man; a dead man, he has not risen nor does he live today. Jesus has risen and IS alive today, what reason would anyone have to believe the words of Smith over the word of Christ?
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book".
Hi Bree,
Wecome to CP. Jesus said the "I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.'
The foundation of Mormonism is built on contradicting the words of Christ, how then can LDS restore the Christ of the Bible and yet deny His Words?
Hi Juan,
Wecome to CP. Am I understanding you to say that Mormonism is another denomination of Christianity?
What of Jesus' warning in Luke 21:8
"And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them."
Do all religions have the same Jesus?
The Truth can be divisive, once man starts adding to the Bible, do you think this is true?
If so, this may be the cause of those divisions; extra-biblical teaching, right?
I am new here and do not know how to comment to a particular post. After reading some of the posts here I think the question is not if the LDS believe in the same Jesus as the "Orthodox" Christians, but does the "Orthodox" Jesus or the LDS Jesus believe in the same Jesus as the early Christians. I am LDS and I agree that there are some similarities between the "Orthodox" beliefs abut Jesus and the LDS beliefs abut Jesus, and there are some differences. However, I believe it is the "Orthodox" view that has changed the Jesus of the Bible to a false Jesus of man's ideas, and the LDS Church restored the true doctrine of Jesus. Arguing about whether one should be called a Christian or not seems a waste of time and energy. One should rather be comparing today's various teaching about Jesus with what the Christians of the first century believed about Jesus, and trying to conform their beliefs to those, being willing to give up false ideas for the truth.
breecatasnana
julian, julian, julian....
you consider someone who believes that Jesus WASN'T the only son of God, or who believed that God is nothing more than a glorified man....you would consider them a Christian? i hope not! that reeks with liberalism and humanism.
I get the feeling that there has been a change in the scriptures; does John 3:16 now say "For God so loved the Evalgelistic Christians only, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever is an Evangelistic Christian should not perish, but have everlasting life."
When are we going to stop the segregation? If a person believes in Christ and in fact believes Christ, and is striving to live as the Savior did, is he never going to be a Christian in your view?
Was Moses a Christian? Was Isaiah a Christian? Of course they were! They lived before Him but they believed in Him, they taught of Him, they rejoiced in Him, they recognized His great part in the plan of salvation, the creation, the atonement, the resurrection, and in His government on the earth at His second coming. But if you are going to require people to believe exactly as you do in order to be Christians, then I guess we're going to have to eliminate a few Old Testament prophets!
Don't we have enough enemies who are trying to destroy Christianity without creating more within the body of those who follow the Prince of Peace?
To the Mormon who is thumbing down all the comments here from concerned Christians...
What do you know of Mormon doctrine compared with the truth of the Bible?
Are you a Temple Mormon?
Alex12-did you know that no Mormon doctrine is taught within the pages of the Book of Mormon?
Most of the teachings of Mormonism is found within the supplimental books; Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants but also letters and memoirs from church leaders from John Smith to the current prophet. The Church has been very polific in their writings making the 'truth' of Mormonism very difficult to discern, even to the leadership.
Do you remeber hearing about Mark Hofman, the Mormon document dealer who 'found' all those old documents that put the church in a bad light and the church leadership were buying them up as fast as Hofman could supply them? He actually forged them but I think the leadership's desire to quash these documents from being exposed is telling of what the Mormon leadership thought of the changability of Mormon doctrine and a desire to hide a lot of Mormon history from the people. Irregardless of these documents being fake, the Mormon leaders believed they were authentic and paid big bucks to hide them. At the time, I thought that this would be the undoing of the church, but it was not as the spiritual stronghold of the trumpet blowing angel of Moroni is very strong, especially in the area of the Temple.
salt Lake City has a beautiful downtown area, with wide streets, few bars and no adult stores; I opten felt very safe walking the streets there, although I felt a feeling of oppression, even before I came to Christ, that I could not name. I was always troubled by the Masonic symbols adorning the bronz arch on South Temple Ave, the pentagrams and statues; surprisingly one of Cain with his offering of fruit within the shadow of the Temple. I learned later that there is a witchcraft 'double whammy" in the lower portions of the Temple, using Masonic symbolism; only specific, initiated Temple Mormon has access to. The Mormon Temple is by the way, built below sea level; a fact I found interesting only after coming to Christ and learning of the spiritual battle we are in. I write this not as an indictment against Mormon people themselves but aginst Mormonism, itself. There is about Mormonism that is unseen and unknown within the rank and file.
It's not the Book of Morman as much as the Pearl of Great Price. There is WAY more to Morman doctrine than most mormans know. It is NOT the same as Christianity.
Yes I agree, I don't think we can blast all mormons just because they are mormon. Just like most Christians don't completely know the gospel the same can be said about the mormons not completely knowing the book of mormon. I think if more was done to point out the flaws in the latter day church many lives could be saved to Christ.
As a Christian who has lived in a small Mormon town outside of Salt Lake City for 8 years, I came to Christ amidst a 98% Mormon population rate. I have a different view than most about their doctrine; Mormons and Christians alike.
Most Mormon's do not know what the Mormon Church really teaches and I believe that is the case with Glenn Beck, who according to his own story, let his daughter decide on the church they as a family would attend; most likely because of their many social programs.
As a born again believer, I preached the gospel to Mormons; I found I had to 'get them lost' by showing them the doctrines and claims of Joseph Smith to be untrue when compared with the Bible...many disbelieved their church taught such doctrine.
From the outside many Mormons seem to be Christians in that they, too share our values in many areas, especially on social issues but the doctrine of Mormonism is far from Christian. All Mormons are fearful of leaving the Mormon faith due to the system through which Mormon leadership views an 'apostate' and pressures them to stay within the Mormon Church. The fact that many have entire families entangled within Mormonism and they are told they will be eternally lost should they leave, keeps them locked within a white-washed church devoid of the true Christ.
What I think happens with most Mormons is that since their doctrine is so hard to understand and is not generally taught, the people just look beyond the Church's teachings and history to see the good deeds the LDS church does and sign up with the Mormon Church because the Church represents, at least on the surface, a godly life-style.
I believe it to be most accurate that they call themselves, "The Latter Day Saints" as after the Rapture my feeling and hope is that many will come to the knowledge of Christ alone. I care deeply for the Mormon people, and I wish more of today's Christians had their zeal but I just hate the "ism".
My faith is that God will one day remove the scales from their eyes and call them out of Mormonism so that they will be mighty Christians in the last days.
narnie, although I don't believe the beliefs of the mormons was an issue in this matter, I would encourage you to do a little more research with regards to mormon beliefs and you will find that they differ greatly with regards to the basic tenets of the Christian faith and the teachings found in God's Word.
The Lord said, "For he that is not against us is on our part." Mark 9:40 "And Jesus said unto him, Forbid [him] not: for he that is not against us is for us." Luke 9:50 We've got way bigger enemies of the faith than mormons... muslims, atheists, secularists, humanists, etc. Glenn Beck is on our side in this culture war, good for him, may he seek to worship the Lord in Spirit and in Truth, as all believers are supposed to do. Porter +++
Before posting comments, I think it's important to do some homework. If I wanted to know what a particular religion believed, I'd ask a practising member, not someone who was anti that religion or who was a member 20 years ago, but not anymore. For instance:
Are Mormons (which is a nickname, by the way) Christian? The name of the church - "The Church of Jesus Christ..."
Do they believe in Jesus Christ? Yes, they believe that He is the Creator of the world, the God of the Old Testament and the Saviour of the World in the New Testament.
Do they believe in the Bible? Yes, The King James version of the Bible is used daily as scripture.
Focus on the Family? Absolutely - visit lds.org and read "The Family - A Proclamation to the World" for starters.
Why do so-called 'Christian' people get caught up in doctrinal differences when most religions are trying to live a Christ-like life? Where is Christian goodness in bigoted, unresearched comments?
Peace on earth, good will towards men ... except 'Mormons' and a few others who you aren't prepared to pause and understand because they see things a little differently to you??? How sad.
Hi all,
I usually don't join in, but this "debate" is quite interesting. I was born and raised LDS(Mormon) and born-again spirit-filled in 1985. I agree that the Mormon faith is a cult, but some of you have inaccurate facts as to why. If anything/one takes away from what Jesus died on the cross(establishing a personal relationship with God) it is a cult. Anyone who has studied Mormon beliefs know that they put the priesthood between you and your connection with God. When I was in the LDS faith, you had to go to bishop for certain sins to be forgiven, but true Christianity teaches a personal relationship is established with God at the time you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior, and any sin is between you and God! They void the importance of Jesus coming here and dieing for you personally. There are several other items that make them a cult, but that is by far the main distinct one.
mathetes , Thanks for taking the time for your sincere comments.
If we are going to judge any book written by the beliefs of the author many will have to be removed from the shelves of book stores. I really don't understand this reaction. This is a work of fiction not a commentary on the book of Acts. To me much of what has been written says that some Christians don't believe that Jesus can really protect his church.
The point is is that Mormonism is not another denomination of Christianity. It is a cult that denies essential Christian doctrines.
l
Apparently Focus on the Family has changed it's policies in this area because a number of years ago they had Dr. Raymond Moore on to speak to the issue of homeschooling and he was from another denomination that many in the evangelical community have a problem with. As some have said already it should be the issue and not simply the denomination that determines the speaker. But at the same time they need to ensure that by having the speaker on they do not inadvertently give creedance to beliefs that are contrary to biblical Christian beliefs.
By the way, I AM a believer. that christ died on the cross for me and has forgiven my sins. He IS a loving, and caring God who watches over us.He does NOT force us to come to him but DOES INVITE us to come to him. Don't knock Christianity 'til you try it for real!!!
To one and all, we will see who is right and who is wrong at judgement. If you don't believe, sorry, you will find out too. But for you, it will be TOO LATE.
Graves01 said:
Maybe the author interview should not have been posted on an evangelical website, but people shouldn't blast Glenn Beck without knowing his background story, the reason for writing the book, and actually reading the book itself. The book is not a religious story at all, even the redemption scene is a dream. I've read the book, found it an incredible story, and never once were his religious views inserted into the story.
I agree 100% My husband got this book for me for Christmas (at my request) I loved it and Graves01 is right he in no place advocated a particular religious view.
Hi, Star. No, Don was my Bible Study teacher at Barksdale Baptist Church in Bosier City, LA, where I grew up. He worked at the CBS TV station in Shreveport. A man of integrity, a great teacher, and a good counselor and friend.
matheses
>>>The most recent account was that of Don Piper, dead for 90 minutes. His experience is not the final word on the subject, but he is a trustworthy witness: many years ago he was my teacher.<<<
Don Piper gave his testimony to my Church (Elim Church)in Houston in 1998 or 99 about how he died, and his experiences in heaven. He was the Youth Minister at First Baptist in Pasadena back then. I read his book; it was even better. The book, "90 Minutes in Heaven" is well worth the read.
Are you from the Houston/Pasadena area? When and where was he your teacher?
Focus on the Family has shown itself to be nothing more than a cult by even posting the article with that character Beck. At every turn FonF has shown itself pharisee in sheep's clothing and its founder the high priest. Why its taken this long for them to be exposed is astounding.
i will welcome the day when those who call themselves evangelical will have more interest in that which is of the spirit of christ, rather than that which is of particular doctrine.
are they not aware that something can be of his spirit without it having first been labeled with his name.
i shudder to think of all the things that have come down thru history that were labled with his name but most definitely were not of his spirit.
there is only christ.......... not pentcostal. baptist, methodist etc. surely it is okay to be part of a group because of one method of worship. but they are all of christ.
since we are all created thru the spirit of christ surely one can see how someone could write something that identifies with the spirit through which they were created, which may not have his name on it.
I realized several years ago that of all the prejudices I enjoy - pulling each one out on occasion to chew on, like a tasty old bone - my anti-Mormonism is one of my favorites. I am not being sarcastic here. I really AM very firmly anti-Mormon. They are such easy targets, and I have such a big support group behind me, encouraging my prejudice.
I think this ame thing has happened tp CP, and I KNOW it has happened to the man this article quotes. Listen to this fatuous bigot: "They use Mr. Beck's story as a way to show that hope can be found in God, which is true enough; the problem is that Mr. Beck's god is not the Triune God of the Bible nor is his Jesus the Jesus of the Bible," commented Dustin S. Seger.
Let Mr. Dustin Seger wallow in his smugness and disdain. I am going to try to move past my destructive anti-Mormonism. (I guess that's a 2009 resolution that I did not see coming.)
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johnzon,
First of all, I appreciate your honesty; that's what makes dialogue possible and beneficial. Thanks.
You wrote: "There is no way to know who might be right or might wrong. Its called religion and faith, to each their own."
Someone defined truth as "that which corresponds to reality." I have studied quite a few religions and I found that no religion corresponds to reality as well as Christianity. The good in the world, and the evil, are better explained by the Bible than any other book or system of beliefs. While each person can believe whatever he/she chooses, our beliefs do have consequences in the natural world as well as the spiritual.
"I tend to think that there is no afterlife, thats why I try to make the most out of this one. Its like going on vacation, you know its going to end, so you enjoy while you can."
I can appreciate that; I felt the same way once. I said, "Live fast, play hard, leave a good-looking corpse." Then I began to understand that there's got to be more to life than the physical world. When I began to seek answers, one religion consistently had the ring of truth to it; Christianity matched with what I observed in reality. As for an afterlife, if you don't want to accept the testimony of the Bible, take a look at several published accounts of those who have returned to life after dying. The most recent account was that of Don Piper, dead for 90 minutes. His experience is not the final word on the subject, but he is a trustworthy witness: many years ago he was my teacher.
So don't write off the possibility of the afterlife too quick. Keep studying and seeking. Specifically, ask God to reveal the Truth to you. He delights in revealing Himself to those who humble themselves and seek Him.
johnzon, You too, Happy New Year. And to all on this forum, God bless.
I know a large number of people who have come to Christ. And every one a them did so because of the love of God. Not because of the "fear of hell".
Sorry to disappoint you.
So are yours. We need to work on that.
Profit, Giving a kid spanking is much different than eternal torture. Your analogies are poor.
mathetes
<<If each one claims to be the only true way to heaven, then it's illogical that they could all be correct. Does that not mean someone is following a path that is not the true path?>>
There is no way to know who might be right or might wrong. Its called religion and faith, to each their own. I tend to think that there is no afterlife, thats why I try to make the most out of this one. Its like going on vacation, you know its going to end, so you enjoy while you can.
So that's a yes?
artm, I think we have exhausted this topic.
Happy New Year to you.
johnzon,
"Profit, I don't threaten them with torture."
Ask the kid who just got their butt whipped or got grounded for a week what he thinks torture is. It's all psychological torture. Right?
johnzon,
One other thing: you seem to dislike the God of the Bible because, as you say, He threatens people with torture.
I guess I don't see it that way. If a person commits a ghastly crime and deserves punishment, but the judge looks the other way and for no reason dismisses the case, would that not be an unjust judge?
The Christian God is a just judge, setting the death penalty for our sins which injure ourselves, others, and His holiness. He enforced that penalty on His own Son Jesus, who died in our place. Through faith in His substitutionary death, His right living is credited to those who believe. Only those who choose to ignore God and what He has done for them will experience the penalty for their sins. He does not threaten to instill obedience as much as He offers mercy and grace to everyone, and only those who refuse His offer and choose to do their own thing face punishment.
So, what is the source of your beliefs? If you don't trust books, what's the foundation for your faith and ethics?
johnzon,
Earlier you wrote: "The important thing is that it brings peace of mind and joy. You believe yours is the only correct one, that's often a big problem with religion. Too many believe their path the only correct one which have lead to many wars. Many Muslims and Jews are just as convinced as you are that their path is the correct one."
If each one claims to be the only true way to heaven, then it's illogical that they could all be correct. Does that not mean someone is following a path that is not the true path?
You said the most important thing is that one's chosen religion brings that person peace of mind and joy. But what if they find peace of mind and joy in this life based on a fallacy? What if their temporary comfort resulted in missing eternal peace of mind and joy? Would it not be better to learn the truth and choose the true path?
johnzon. It does if it's in the Bible. I accept the Bible as the Word of God, Many don't, but that doesn't mean what is written therein is not true.
But people can believe or not believe, that is right given to them by God, But understand, god has written what is written, and we canot change that.
artm, Because something is written in a book, doesn't make it factual, in other words, don't beleive everything you read.
johnzon, I don't threaten anyone, I just tell them what the Bible say, God say there is a heaven and a hell, Are you accusing God of threatening people with eternal punishment so they will serve him.?
If you can prove me wrong I will accept it.
Profit, I don't threaten them with torture.
artm, Again, thats your belief. Good for you.
johnzon,
Do you discipline your kids? I hope not. That would be using fear and threats in order to get them to comply. And you don't go for that, do you?
johnzon. Your complaint is geared to the wrong one. It was Jesus, who said, " every name not found written in the Lamb's book of life is cast into the lake of fire.
Love is when you warn of following a false way of Salvation. yes, I believe that Faith in Christ and what he did on the cross is the only way one can be saved.
artm Your choice of the Christian religion works for you. Thats good. Other were raised with or choose other religions such as Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Mormonism, etc that work for them. The important thing is that it brings peace of mind and joy. You believe yours is the only correct one, that's often a big problem with religion. Too many believe their path the only correct one which have lead to many wars. Many Muslims and Jews are just as convinced as you are that their path is the correct one.
<<But they have been warned>>
Strange thing about most Christians is they proclaim their religion to be of love, yet theres always the threat of eternal torment for those that do not believe. Doesn't sound like love to me, more like bullying. I doubt the creator would make humans then torture them for an eternity for not thinking in a certain manner.
All religions do not lead to God. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that all religions should be accepted as a part of love.
If one truly loves, they will give warning to those who are following a false way of Salvation.
But I also believe that no one's mind will be changed here, For those who choose not to believe,they will continue in their unbelief.
But they have been warned. There is no other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved. Jesus is the way, and the only way, take it or leave it.
artm
<<God says so>>
If you say so, the beauty of religion is you can take from it what makes sense to you. If you choose to believe the Bible is the word of God, that is your right, good for you. I dont happen to share that belief.
weekenderman
<<Do you believe all traffic laws should also be relative, Jon? >>
I obey traffic laws and as a contributing member of society, I follow the laws our society makes that attempt protect and benefit members of society. Religion is about beliefs one chooses, not laws to be followed, unless they are "laws" one decides to follow as part of ones faith. If the US were to make laws based on say your religious beliefs, then we would live in a theocracy.
This does not look good. We need to build bridges in all communities. Calling another religion a CULT is not acceptable behavior either.
If this were an interview with Ann Frank and her diaries, would you have canceled it because she was a Jew? Evangelicals are competent to know that Glenn Beck is a Mormon and know the differences in theology. His story was not a doctrinal one, and is worthy of all acceptation.
Christ won over hearts with love and acceptance. He would have never behaved this way. Please try to be more transparent in your decisions.
John obviously believes all truth is relative. Sad.
Do you believe all traffic laws should also be relative, Jon? Do you realize what a huge mess this world would be in if we followed your thoughts to a logical conclusion?
God says so, And that is good enough for me.As the old song says, " It was good for Paul and Silas, And that's good enough for me.
Maybe the author interview should not have been posted on an evangelical website, but people shouldn't blast Glenn Beck without knowing his background story, the reason for writing the book, and actually reading the book itself. The book is not a religious story at all, even the redemption scene is a dream. I've read the book, found it an incredible story, and never once were his religious views inserted into the story.
artm
<<The Bible is the Infallable Word of God,? " CORRECT. ">>
If that is your belief and it helps you, sure if you say so.
Fai in Jesus Christ, and what he did on the Cross, is the only wayin which one can be saved,? " CORRECT ".
The Bible is the Infallable Word of God,? " CORRECT. "
What part of that don't you understand johnzon.?
cowboyfan88, Yeah, yeah, your religion and beliefs are the corect ones, all other religions and beliefs are wrong.........LOL.
Biblical truth is not to be compromised. What does it mean if we all worship Jesus? We are not to compromise the word of God for anybody. If you are not putting your faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross, you are not saved period. Mormon theology does not believe that Jesus is God therefore how can you say they are worshiping the God of the Bible? Stop compromising what the word of God says. It's not of private interpretation. The Bible is the finished word of God and He did not inspire the book of Mormon. The Bible has never been proven false but that's not true of the book of Mormon.
BOT, if you think Jesus is a created being, you are not saved. Jesus Christ is the self existent creator of the universe (John 1). That is New Testament Christianity, not the wakcy con-man cult of Joseph Smith and his cronies.
You play no part in your salvation. Christ saves us by grace through faith only.
At a time when,In the relm of Religion, The Weapon of choice is Compromise, We must be very carful.
There is but " One God."
His Name is Jesus Christ. There are not many gods. If there are other gods as some teach, what are their names,? where do they appear in the Word of God,? and who has declared them to be a god.?
Tom Minnery should know that Mormons' theology is based on the Jesus Christ of the New Testament. Tom's theology is based on the Jesus Christ of the Nicene Creed. Both are Christians, as are any denomination which considers Him divine, and the Savior of the world.
MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com
continuation: I am 100% in agreement with Dustin S. Seger, pastor of Shepherd’s Fellowship of Greensboro, N.C. comments on this issue when he said (and i quote):
"They use Mr. Beck's story as a way to show that hope can be found in God, which is true enough; the problem is that Mr. Beck's god is not the Triune God of the Bible nor is his Jesus the Jesus of the Bibleâ€Â.
Conservative ministry Focus on the Family agreed (a little too late in my opinion) and removed from its website an article about this same man in response to complaints over his Mormon ties. Pat Robertson and CBN should the same.
9fingers, It seems you have no true knowledge of the biblical doctrine. There is a vast difference between biblical Christianity and the cult of Mormonism. That's right, CULT! How can you say then that is right to not only support the deep theological difference between evangelical theology and Mormon theology but promote it as well. This my friend is heresy. So how if you being a Christian, (I don't know if you really are, but by your comment a realy doubt it), are not willing to defend the true Christian doctrine. I am 100% in agreement with Dustin S. Seger, pastor of Shepherd’s Fellowship of Greensboro, N.C. comments on this issue when he said (and i quote):
"They use Mr. Beck's story as a way to show that hope can be found in God, which is true enough; the problem is that Mr. Beck's god is not the Triune God of the Bible nor is his Jesus the Jesus of the Bibleâ€Â.
Pat Robertson and CBN should the same. They've been promoting Glenn Beck and no one has said anything.
9fingers
We must be very careful. For Satan is also capable of quoting scripures and twisting the meanings.
Regardless, we are not to listen to him.
Until this article, I was not familiar with UnderGround Apologetics.
In any case, it may be a good idea for Focus On The Family to share its process of deciding what articles are posted on their CitizenLink site.
Is there anyone in particular, or perhaps a group of people, that submits a review about an article?
Who truly answers for this oversight?
Don't understand the position of some people. Perhaps there should be a doctrinal exam for all whose interviews might get posted with Focus on the Family. Sure seems like to me that you have the sprinklers, those who insist on baptism by imersion, some who believe in female or yet gay clergy, ... any number of different views. If Mormons worship Christ regardless of their unique perception, why judge ye? Alienation is never a good policy for those who wish to spread the good news.
A message of redemption for this ravaged world should be welcome regardless of the beliefs of the author. PPUUULLLLEEEEESSSSSEEE!!!!!