Calif. Court Sides with Episcopal Church over Property

Alockslee »

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

ID4234 »Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:53 am So, holding the deed to the property and, by the way, paying for the property means nothing in California. Why are we not surprised? It seems that the California Supreme Court can always figure out what is wrong and see that injustice triumphs over justice. No wonder the respect for judges continues to diminish day by day.
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In response: You don't understand the agreements between the mother church and the breakaways. The joining and alignment with the mother church is the basis for the ruling and nothing to do with ideology, please try to understand the difference.

The judges have to base their decisions upon the law and if you want it to otherwise then you are abrogating contract law. The breakaways benefited from the relationship and didn't contest the agreement until they split from the mother church, so tell us where did they lose out during the time before the split? The only issue now is that they were fine until they decided to leave and can't accept they are bound to their word. When you give your word you are expected to uphold it, so where are all the fundies making that point?

Lets see you actively promote truth in reporting and stop this selective ignorance to the whole truth and not limit yourself to simply complain about valid legal decisions and enforcement of the agreements that were entered into knowingly, without any reservation by all the parties and only now a problem because they stupidly left and can't force everyone to side with their viewpoints that aren't part of the lawsuit. It is a property issue, not a religious issue.

Try to think and separate the facts from the ideology you hold to and perhaps the matter will become clear and even better you will be able to recover form the brainwashing that clouds your ability to see reality and not just knee jerk react to claims of religious violations which has not occurred.

http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Read this & recover your ability to think for yourself.

TFR

Alockslee »

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The decision by the court to uphold the agreements with the mother church was a great ruling. The court rightly found for the mother church after the disgruntled members decided to leave and continue their misguided views which violate the core principles of Christianity.

Eventually the breakaways will have enough time away from the programming that lead to this problem in the first place and will then be able to recover from and undo the damage caused by allowing themselves to be mentally controlled to further the discriminatory practices that aren't Christian nor have any basis from it's core principles. Much like the split of Southern Baptists during the years of slavery which lead to the Civil War, those pushing for separating will come tho their senses and simply stop the practices as they recover from the programming since the weekly brainwashing sessions to maintain the mind control aren't taking place.

This is some of the best news that has come out of the split but not being discussed as those involved in causing the split don't want anyone to know that their fascist message and programming is the core effort to force attendees to comply with the movement to enslave America under a Theocracy which is illegal under the Constitution. This was tried under Reagan and more recently George W. Bush's reign but the American Populace saw through this and acted appropriately to end the power grab and stop the fascists from complete takeover. As more people wake up from the programming they will eventually leave the dwindling fundie groups till they are left with just the few hate filled individuals who will then be completely powerless and known to everyone so they don't regain any position to continue their takeover.
http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear this blog
TFR

Alockslee »

Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:15 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

pvlman »Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:51 am No doubt the documents where signed under duress. Have to give into extortion, to be a part of the larger Episcopal congregation, it's all about control folks. The Episcopal church is not alone in this
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In response: Were YOU there when the agreements were signed? Most likely not, but if you were then you would fully understand that the contractual arrangements were not forced upon them nor was anyone forced to agree to anything. The contracts were not questioned UNTIL the breakaway members simply wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

But the issue of forcing compliance is rampant in fundie churches and that is the forcing of Americans to convert to their ideology which has been shown to be nothing short of bigoted and wrong. Other Christian groups are proving to be examples of True Christianity that the breakaways can emulate. Those who left because of their programming simply need to spend some time alone so the programming is lessened and then they will be able to recognize the mind control they have been subjected to. Once those victims come to their senses the they will be able to realize what they have been doing and then take action to return to the church and rid themselves of the discrimination and work toward equality as Christians.

http://alockslee.blogspot.com/Fundies fear this blog!!!

TFR

jvwh3b »

Sat Jan 10, 2009 1:38 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Finally, someone has the chutzpah to stand up to the renegade parishes. If they want to leave, fine. But, why should they be allowed to keep the Mother Church's property? They can't have it "their way," and think it's all right. Not!

St. John »

Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:30 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

ID4234, the deeds of many churches are held in their name, but the canons of the Church are clear that they are held in trust for the Diocese, which in turn holds it in trust for the National Church. Anyone is free to leave, though no one has been asked to, but those leaving cannot take property entrusted to the larger Church with them to suit their personal grievances and issues. That's the way it has always been. Sorry.

pvlman »

Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:51 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

No doubt the documents where signed under duress. Have to give into extortion, to be a part of the larger Episcopal congregation, it's all about control folks. The Episcopal church is not alone in this

thelamb_777 »

Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:08 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

It is not "fair" but they need agree to abide by the church' rules. Blaming the California Supreme Court to adjudicate is wrong because they are just interpreting the agreement which the churches entered into which is very clear.

The ban against Gay marriage is also "unfair" - Gay marriages it's against the bible some say, but forgotten that Gays never signed up to this jurisdiction - which is internal to the church.

www.psa91.com

wbmoore »

Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Well, to my understanding, individual churches agreed the Episcopal diocese owns resources. But its interesting the church was on the deed, instead of the diocese - given that, I'd think the church would own the property.

Regardless, I think both sides are wrong for going to court. They should have just been wronged by the other side.

1 Corinthians 6:1-8
1 If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4 Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! 5 I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6 But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers! 7 The very fact that you have lawsuits among you means you have been completely defeated already. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be cheated? 8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers.

ID4234 »

Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:53 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

So, holding the deed to the property and, by the way, paying for the property means nothing in California. Why are we not surprised? It seems that the California Supreme Court can always figure out what is wrong and see that injustice triumphs over justice. No wonder the respect for judges continues to diminish day by day.