Two religious institutions behind a recent survey of 36 leading seminaries and rabbinical schools claim that most faith-based institutions are failing to prepare the next generation of clergy to address sexuality issues in ministry.
The survey, part of the “Sex and the Seminary” study, found that sexuality courses are largely absent from most seminary curricula and degree requirements. Furthermore, at most institutions, students can graduate without studying sexual ethics or taking a single sexuality-based course.
“This study challenges all of us who are charged with ministerial formation to look closely at the institutional environment we create to prepare our students to be active and informed – and hence to effect people from the pulpit and in the public square," commented the Rev. Dr. Serene Jones, president of Union Theological Seminary in New York, which partnered with the Religious Institute on Sexual Morality, Justice, and Healing for the study.
For the study, a survey was distributed to 36 leading seminaries and rabbinical schools of diverse size and geographic location, representing a range of Christian, Jewish and Unitarian Universalist traditions. Each institution was evaluated on criteria that measured content in the curriculum; institutional commitment to sexuality and gender equity (e.g., the existence of anti-discrimination, sexual harassment and full inclusion policies); and advocacy and support for sexuality-related issues. The criteria were developed by an advisory group of seminary deans, faculty and clergy with expertise in sexuality.
What the survey found was that more than 90 percent of the seminaries surveyed do not require full-semester, sexuality-based courses for graduation; two-thirds of the seminaries do not offer a course in sexuality issues for religious professionals; and three-quarters do not offer a course in lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) studies.
And with greater attention being placed today on the increasingly active homosexual community, greater understanding of sexuality issues is essential for today’s clergy, some argue.
"With so many congregations embroiled in controversy over sexual orientation issues, or struggling to address teenage sexuality, or concerned about sexual abuse, there is an urgent need for ordained clergy who understand the connections between religion and sexuality," said the Rev. Debra W. Haffner, director of the multi-faith Religious Institute. "Seminaries must do more to prepare students to minister to their congregants and be effective advocates for sexual health and justice."
According to frequently referenced 2007 Barna Group report, young Christians largely criticize church leaders for making homosexuality a "bigger sin" than anything else and for not helping them apply the biblical teaching on homosexuality to their friendships with gays and lesbians. Overall, 80 percent of young churchgoers say present-day Christianity is "anti-homosexual."
"Religious leaders have a unique opportunity, and moral obligation, to help congregations and communities wrestle with the complexities of sexual health and justice," stated Union Seminary’s Jones. "Is there any subject more important and more on-the-ground crucial than sexual health and human flourishing?”
Since the recent unveiling of “Sex and the Seminary: Preparing Ministers for Sexual Health and Justice,” the team behind the study has been recommending that seminaries and religious denominations develop and require competencies in sexuality for ordination to ministry. Most denominations currently do not require ministerial candidates to be competent in sexual health and education beyond sexual harassment prevention, they noted in the study.
The researchers also recommend that the Association of Theological Schools, the accrediting body for U.S. seminaries, integrate sexuality education into its standards for ministerial formation.
“It (the study) calls on seminaries to strengthen their curricular offerings and inclusion policies, invest in faculty development and continuing education, and pursue collaboration with other institutions and advocacy groups to expand educational opportunities for seminarians regarding sexuality issues,” they stated.
According to the Religious Institute, copies of the “Sex and the Seminary” report will be sent to every seminary and rabbinical school in the United States. The report has also been made available online at www.religiousinstitute.org/SeminaryReport.html.
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feet,
you said, "your contention is that under the new covenant we are still under and led by the law"
You have troubles differentiating living by the law and obeying everything that Jesus commanded. The whole purpose of the law was God's way of showing that man cannot save himself because he can not live up to the law. Everyone of us is a sinner and deserves death based upon the law. Only by true faith in Jesus Christ are we saved as He cleanses us of our sins as long as we are repentant of our sins. The True Spirit convicts us of our sins and steers us away from wanting to continue living a sinful lifestyle.
The new covenant is not license to continue to sin without repentance. To ignore the NT teachings that God designed sexual intimacy to be enjoyed only within the bonds of marriage between one man and one woman (any other sexual activity is immorality; aka sin, evil) indicates that person lacks the Spirit of Truth. If God says homosexual behavior is a sin that is the ultimate source for proof, not unless you don't consider God the Creator of heaven and earth and you look to man as the higher authority to reword God's truth.
I gave you NT passages that discuss homosexuality as evil. How much clearer can that be?
You want to justify the behavior on how friendly two homosexuals can be. I suppose you can then apply that logic to two adulterers, those committing incest, prostitutes that really, really care about their johns, cohabitators, pedophiles, etc. Where do you draw the line as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable?
Where do you go to determine what is good and what is evil based on the verse below if not to God's word?
Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God. 3 John 1:11 (HCSB)
Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
and do not rely on your own understanding;
think about Him in all your ways,
and He will guide you on the right paths.
Don't consider yourself to be wise;
fear the Lord and turn away from evil.
Prov 3:5-7 (HCSB)
God, please open up his eyes and mind.
hawk
"If you contend you love Jesus and obey everything He has commanded then I contend 1John1:8-10 is fitting as to love Jesus and obey everything He has commanded means to repent of all sexual immorality rather than to continue attempting to justify it."
we all agree that there is sexual impurity, immmorality and debauchery. our difference of understanding is whether homosexuality is any part of that.
your contention is that under the new covenant we are still under and led by the law. in this case the law is about same sex sexual intimacy. YOUR RELIANCE IS TOTALLY ON YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAW. because you cannot explain how it is a sin, or how it comes against the 2nd commandment which is the summation of all the law. you have no personnal witness of the fruit of the spirit of married homosexual believers. a witness that we are called to in the spirit of testing in 1 thess5:21, and in the love of 1john 4:20, and in the fellowship of walking in the light of 1john1.
your contention is that it is your interpretation of the law, and your subsequent judgement that is your love of 1john4:20, rather than a spirit, fellowship witness of the light of 1john1"that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes and our hands have touched". this is the eye witness that we are called to by christ's words "you will recognize them by their fruit"
listing scripture is no substitute for saying how the words of those verses say that homosexuality is a sin.
feetxxxl
Your question had been answered days ago. Perhaps that is why I included the quote from Romans. The scripture I provided in my last message is after the fact for ignoring the truth of scripture provided to you by others and myself.
The problem is the spirit you claim you are lead by is not the same Spirit I am lead by; my Spirit testifies to the truth and discerns lies.
If you contend you love Jesus and obey everything He has commanded then I contend 1John1:8-10 is fitting as to love Jesus and obey everything He has commanded means to repent of all sexual immorality rather than to continue attempting to justify it.
"Several deviations of sexual behavior are condemned in the biblical teachings: homosexuality (Lev. 18:22; Rom. 1:26-27; 1 Cor. 6:9-10); bestiality (Ex. 22:19; Lev. 18:23); incest (Lev. 18:6-18; 1 Cor. 5); rape (Ex. 22:16-17; Deut. 22:23-29); adultery (Ex. 20:14; Deut. 22:22); prostitution (Prov. 7:1-27; 29:3;); fornication (1 Cor. 6:9-10; compare Matt. 19:9). These are all declared to be outside of the will of God for man and woman who are called to live together in monogamous fidelity within the covenant of marriage. The only other option is the giftedness of celibacy.
Intimate sexual behavior outside of marriage is considered sexual immorality in the biblical perspective. Within the limits of marriage, sex is for procreation of children, the enhancement of the one-flesh relationship [between one man and one woman], and the pleasure of the married couple whose love can be nourished thereby. Outside of the limits established by God, sex becomes an evil and destructive force in human life, calling for God's redemptive power to deliver humans trapped therein. Marital sexual love is both a gift and a responsibility from God to be consecrated by the Word and prayer. -Holman Bible Dictionary
Take Care and meditate not on justifying but rather on all the discussions you've encountered here and the Words of God in the scriptures offered you.
God, please open up his eyes and mind.
believer,
I get frequent E-mails from worldviewweekend and Brannon Howse. I like that site. He refers to David Noebel and has him attend at some of the weekend gatherings. That's a good source of information. Have you taken the worldview test on that site?
Thanks
God Bless
hawk, I'm not sure of the actual website, but it includes articles from people like Norman Geisler, David Brannon, Josh McDowell and others. It could be under worldviewweekend(?). I get it automatically every other day or so.
reedit
hawk
not only have you refused to answer my questions regarding spirit. but in addition even the referenced verses you have referred to, you have refused to explain how the words of those verses say homosexulaity is a sin?
all this and you are without one scintilla of personnal witness to support what you claim to be the truth.
without personnal witness, the kind of 1john1, there is no truth.
hawk
not only have you refused to answer my questions regarding spirit. but in addition even the referenced verses you have referred to, you have refused to explain how the words of those verses say how homosexulaity is a sin?
all this and you are without one scintilla of personnal witness to support what you claim to be the truth.
without personnal witness, the kind of 1john1, there is no truth.
feet,
You failed to read the reference I posted; otherwise you'd understand. You also failed to recognize the difference between economic Marxism and cultural Marxism. The Marxists of the Frankfurt School determined that cultural Marxism has to be in place before economic Marxism is attempted, again.
Homosexuality in the church is part of the agenda of the cultural Marxists; it is not of God but of false prophets who are selling the lies of Satan.
Many have referenced and proved on this site that homosexual behavior is a sin according to God's truth. You are unable to cite from scripture that specifically nullifies God's teaching that homosexual behavior along with other inappropriate sexual behaviors is "sexual immorality." I've demonstrated where the lie originated as far as being planted in the church.
And because they did not think it worthwhile to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them over to a worthless mind to do what is morally wrong.
Romans 1:28 (HCSB)
If we say, "We have no sin," we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say, "We have not sinned," we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10 (HCSB)
I do believe the spirit you always refer to is the spirit of error, not the Spirit of Truth.
God, pleae open up his eyes.
HAWK
anybody is entitled to believe anything they want.
but as of yet, no one has shown how homosexuality comes against the fruit of the holy spirit or the 2nd commandment. in other words are unable to show how in regards to the spirit of christ the essence of homosexuality, is even a sin.
all evidence shows the reverse.
homosexuals not found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuality.
homosexuals bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals for a shared committed life together. and believing homosexual marriages are filled with the fruit of the spirit in the same way that believing heterosexual marriages are.
surely you are not saying that the fruit of the holy spirit is the same as the fruit of the spirit of satan.
marxism is about economics and challenges other economic systems such as capitialism,
it amazes me how believers hold christianity as a religion to exclusively protecting families. when in truth as has been historically shown, the teaching and spirit of christ has caused stress within the family. in the age of theocracy royal families went to war with each other over the instituting one denomination over another....................one belief system warring against another..
Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters,yes, even his own life,he cannot be my disciple.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e]
point is you cannot serve 2 masters you will hate one and love the other. in truth you cannot serve family and serve christ. this has become obvious by all the venom expressed by believers toward anything they feel threatens the family, like you are doing now.
the 2ndcommandment does not say love your family as yourself.
in fact if there is any mitigation of the love for ones neighbor, for the sake of family........................IT IS AGAINST CHRIST.
we know that christ chided believers, who only loved those, who loved them.
Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
some have said that this teaching is only about god and money. no!.................it is talking about serving any 2 masters.
HAWK
anybody is entitled to believe anything they want.
but as of yet, no one has shown how homosexuality comes against the fruit of the holy spirit or the 2nd commandment. in other words are unable to show how in regards to the spirit of christ the essence of homosexuality, is even a sin.
all evidence shows the reverse.
homosexuals not found wanting in any sector of society compared to heterosexuality.
homosexuals bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals for a shared committed life together. and believing homosexual marriages are filled with the fruit of the spirit in the same way that believing heterosexual marriages are.
surely you are not saying that the fruit of the holy spirit is the same as the fruit of the spirit of satan.
marxism is about economics and challenges other economic systems such as capitialism,
it amazes me how believers hold christianity as a religion to exclusively protecting families. when in truth as has been historically shown, the teaching and spirit of christ has caused stress within the family. in the age of theocracy royal families went to war with each other over the instituting one denomination over another....................one belief system warring against another..
Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sistersâ€â€yes, even his own lifeâ€â€he cannot be my disciple.
34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -
36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'[e]
point is you cannot serve 2 masters you will hate one and love the other. in truth you cannot serve family and serve christ. this has become obvious by all the venom expressed by believers toward anything they feel threatens the family, like you are doing now.
the 2ndcommandment does not say love your family as yourself.
in fact if there is any mitigation of the love for ones neighbor, for the sake of family........................IT IS AGAINST CHRIST.
we know that christ chided believers, who only loved those, who loved them.
Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
some have said that this teaching is only about god and money. no!.................it is talking about serving any 2 masters.
Glad to see you still discussing this issue of homosexuality within the church. Church history is one aspect to consider with this discussion.
Acceptance of homosexuality within some liberal, apostate denominations has occured just within the last 30 years or so. The root cause of this is infiltration of the recent phenomenon of cultural Marxism (aka political correctness). The goal of the cultural Marxists is to destroy our Judeo-Christian society by attacking the family and the church; to create the new Communist Man ready to accept "change" to a Marxist based, socialist society dominated with pluralism. Some in the church are caving-in due to the infiltraton of this little bit of yeast. Primary indoctrination is taking place in our govt schools and by our mass media sources.
Proponents of homosexuality in the church appear to be deconstructionists and are unable to interpret the Bible in a traditional, orthodox manner and end up with twisted scripture and inventing concepts that aren't there.
Cultural Marxism comes from the Frankfurt School in the form of Critical Theory.
"To achieve this, the Critical Theorists of the Frankfurt School recognized that traditional beliefs and the existing social structure would have to be destroyed and then replaced. The patriarchal social structure would be replaced with matriarchy; the belief that men and women are different and properly have different roles would be replaced with androgyny; and the belief that heterosexuality is normal would be replaced with the belief that homosexuality is equally "normal."
It appears our homosexual proponents here are captives of these cultural Marxist (Satan's) lies. May God open their eyes.
http://www.freecongress.org/centers/cc/index.aspx
feetxxxl
you have said....
"i know of no scripture that says unless there was a ceremony it is a sin."
This statement confuses me. I don't know why you are searching for any ceremonial justification. There is nothing about this in my comments.
Please do not add assumptions that may divert attention off the focus of our comments.
The sin of homosexuality is the sexual act.
Christ even went as far as to emphasize that if you have already commited the sin in your heart (goes to intent meaning you don't care what God's Word says even before the act is done), then you have already sinned.
I refuse to prove myself because I'd just be repeating verbatim what others including God have already said,
problem is, why are you non-believers not listening?
halver
my understanding is that marriage is more about what the heart is given over to, in commitmenmt to cherish another, than whether a couple is united by ceremony, or whether it is recognized by the state.
the thing about marriage among believers is that christ is included in the marriage. but given that the divorce numbers are the same both in the church and out of the church. it seems even that may no longer be a factor.
you have a witness in your own family. hopefully your relationship is of 1john 4:20. are these bonded relationships any less of the spirit than those of heterosexuals doing the same thing.
then its not about orientation but about being given to something else.
paul speaks only of having a wife. i know of no scripture that says unless there was a ceremony it is a sin.
feetxxxl
You have said....
"has it ever occured to you that you are without any witness of what are talking about"
"what do you think is more important........the spirit in their lives or the understanding in your head?"
Perhaps we can emphasize the small "s" in self-spirit as opposed to the bigger "S" as in the Holy Spirit.
There are no homosexual couples in my family (immediate or otherwise) that are lawfully married.
The homosexual couples in my family are either in the "process of courtship" or they are living as though they are married.
Where there is sin, the truth of the Word of God is distorted.
Hyperion, you claim I take the word of God out of context....nope, that would be many others on here. My entire goal is to put it back in context.
Hawk, a discussion doesn't end because you twist our words to your own means. That man had a theory, and the fact that I interpret the Bible differently than you doesn't mean a thing. Perhaps your persistent belief proves his point rather than mine.
halver
has it ever occured to you that you are without any witness of what are talking about.
do you actually know any homosexuals believers that are married? have youu ever witnessed the spirit that they acknowledge each other? have you ever worshipped and shared the spirit of christ with them? have you ever actually loved them..............as required in 1john4:20?
isnt all this the essence of christ?
what do you think is more important........the spirit in their lives or the understanding in your head?
halver
"Without the sex you have just a relationship. And the bible does not have a problem with this unless the two are unevenly yoked."
that's amazing
i assume that you look at marriage, because of its devotion, faithfulness, intimacy and cherishing as one of the greatest among human relationships.
that's what homosexual believers have in their marriages. yet you say the sex in these marriage is what defilies them.
how is it that sex defiles homosexual marriages but is affirming and is an expression of that devotion and commitment in heterosexual ones and frequency and satisfaction of sexual intimacy is encouraged not only by counselors , but also scripture itself.
1cor7The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command.
if your comment is, paul is only .a addressing heterosexual marriages. of course he is. why would he be addressing the less than 3% of the population (assuming there existed anything resembling gay marriage) rather than the more than the 97% of the population.
yet, jesus more than accountedfor gay marriage when he said that "we would recognize them by their fruit."
since believing gay marriages have the same mutual ;love, devotion. affection etc as believing heterosexual marriages, they also are of god.
to continue to claim that it is against some god-created regulation, seeks to ressurect the old covenant relationship to the law and deny the authority of christ and the holy spirit. this .denys all that paul says is our relation to the law in romans, and denys what hebrews 8 says about the old covenant. and tries to resurrect the old covenant relationship to the law as in deut 28.
For them who have the ears to hear, let the hear what the Spirit is saying to the church.
For them who do not have the ears to hear, may they desire it and God grant it.
HyperionOverseer
why waste your time in accusation consider instead showing how the words of the scriptures you stand on say homosexuality is a sin.
hawk
"You gave it a good try but are unable to cite scripture that specifically refutes the fact that homosexual behavior is one of the sexually immoral acts that God specifially describes a number of times in both the OT and NT. It's definitely a lifestyle of the flesh Vs the Spirit. "
that was the attitude of the believing south prior to the civil war " show me a scripture that says that ethnic slavery is against god and an intolerable evil, since every scripture is clearly positive about enslaving pagans."
god never described homosexuality as an immoral act. he prohibited it under the old covenant, where not all prohibitions of themselves were sins.
to embrace an understanding that we still live by regulation whose essence is apart from loving ones neighbor as oneself, is to deny, that under the new covenant all law is summed up by the second commandment.
to say that we are still under the law is to deny Gal5:18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
so if homosexuality is a sin it comes against the holy spirit. but believing homosexual marriages are full of the fruit of the spirit, in the same way that of heterosexual believing marriages are.
would you say the same of marriages given to the acts of the sin nature: fits of rage, drunkeness, and orgies etc. of course not!
then how can you include homosexuality in galatians sexual immorality, purity, and debauchery? these are about the shame filled actions of 1cor and 1tim and romans1 that foster self hatred, and personnal defilement. homosexual marriage is about about self affirming acts of sexual intimacy that are expressions of faithfulness, devotion and affection to strengthen the bonds of a shared commited life together. the same as with any believing heterosexual marriage.
to deny the spirit of these relationships for the sake of someone's supposed belief in a regulation is to deny the essence of the new covenant where paul in romans said that the sons of god would be led by the spirit of god.
to believe in the leading of regulation is to continue to cling to the essence of the old covenant and the relationship espoused in deut. 28............................which concerning the covenant that paul stated in hebrews 8, that having been named "old" would become obsolete and soon pass away.
what is sad is that there seems to be no concern about having any witness about the spirit in this issue, a witness that sought to test the truth, because of the love for a believing brother.
Non-believers,
I like how you continually justify yourselves on this matter, I'ver casually observed your argument and have seen the true christian apologetics amongst you continually gut the jugular of your arguments,
listen to yourselves, honestly
what is your malfunction?
you look for ways
you change the context of written word of God
You're just like Satan, he uses the bible of all things to turn you into his puppets, he knows EVERY word by heart, and uses it to screw you over.
You've lost, get over it. Submit and surrender and God will deliver you from this sick and twisted lifestyle.
Reject this offer God has provided all, and I can guarantee you'll be getting a grand correction before the judge who shines and always passes a guilty verdict to those who chose him as judge.
I could utterly obliterate the argument with nails in your coffins and spikes through your voice to shut you up further, but I am called to observe and mediate the wars.
My actions, will end all debates, but only when called for.
I say stop listening to yourselves and start doing a little listening to God, it goes a LONG LONG way!
God bless you christian brothers and sisters, you're doing excellently. Forgive my coldness, you'll understand why soon enough.
Mike and feet,
I want to thank both of you for this discussion, but I believe we have run its course and it's time to move on.
You gave it a good try but are unable to cite scripture that specifically refutes the fact that homosexual behavior is one of the sexually immoral acts that God specifially describes a number of times in both the OT and NT. It's definitely a lifestyle of the flesh Vs the Spirit.
You both handsomely proved Barna's survey that growing numbers of people now serve as their own theologian-in-residence [creating their own brand of religion.] One consequence is that Americans are embracing an unpredictable and contradictory body of beliefs. Americans and most of their churches have gone apostate following in the steps of Europe.
God Bless and good night. Until we meet again on another article take care.
hawk
"Can you be specific and site any chapters and verses that refute marriage is exclusively between one man and one woman
where is the word "only" or any word comparable to it, where talks about man and woman having a one flesh relationship and cleaving to each other."
"One of the fruits of the true Spirit is faith. To believe and love Christ, to trust Him and obey everything He commanded. Living an unrepentant life of sexual immorality is not living a life of obeience and is a sign of being unfruitful. Satan is working overtime in America. '"
AGAIN....................IT IS not because we OBEY THAT WE LOVE, ITS because we LOVE CHRIST THAT WE OBEY HIM, it s thru the love that we have for christ that we obey his commands.
and how do we know we love christ, because we love our brother.
1john4: 19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
what is christ's command
John 15:12
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
John 15:17
This is my command: Love each other.
Revelation 3:10
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
hawk
"Can you be specific and site any chapters and verses that refute marriage is exclusively between one man and one woman
where is the word "only" or any word comparable to it, where talks about man and woman having a one flesh relationship and cleaving to each other."
"One of the fruits of the true Spirit is faith. To believe and love Christ, to trust Him and obey everything He commanded. Living an unrepentant life of sexual immorality is not living a life of obeience and is a sign of being unfruitful. Satan is working overtime in America. '"
AGAIN....................IT IS not because we OBEY THAT WE LOVE, ITS because we LOVE CHRIST THAT WE OBEY HIM, it s thru the love that we have for christ that we obey his commands.
and how do we know we love christ, because we love our brother.
1john4: 19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
what is christ's command
John 15:12
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
John 15:17
This is my command: Love each other.
Revelation 3:10
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
I can't give verses to refute them, but I can give my personal interpretation of them. As far as Jesus saying one man and one woman, I think he was speaking to a very specific audience. Jesus chose only male apostles because he knew women apostles wouldn't have been taken seriously. Similarly, had Jesus spoken of gay married at the time, he wouldn't have been taken seriously.
As far as sexual immorality, if you think critically, rape, adultery, random fornication, etc all end up hurting you or exposing you to hurt (i.e. chances of STDs, breaking the heart of the one you committed yourself to through a vow, taking away someone's dignity, etc.) Homosexuality does not innately hurt you. Certainly, you can choose to be promiscuous, but just because you're gay does not mean you're going to be.
As for sex in marriage...gays aren't allowed to marry, but sex is a beautiful expression of love for a committed couple.
(PS, its cite, not site, when you're talking about a form of documentation.)
what is it that you do not get.........when i say gay couples in my church marry?
feet;
Can you be specific and site any chapters and verses that refute marriage is exclusively between one man and one woman and that any sexual activity outside of marriage is sexual immorality and therefore a spirit of the flesh Vs the Holy Spirit? Picking and choosing what you want to believe and discarding the truth of scripture is not the work of the Spirit and is in defiance of Christ's teachings.
In fact, you have just validated Barna's new report:
Asked to describe what the research means for American society today, researcher George Barna offered several insights.
The Christian faith is less of a life perspective that challenges the supremacy of individualism as it is a faith being defined through individualism. Americans are increasingly comfortable picking and choosing what they deem to be helpful and accurate theological views and have become comfortable discarding the rest of the teachings in the Bible.
Growing numbers of people now serve as their own theologian-in-residence. One consequence is that Americans are embracing an unpredictable and contradictory body of beliefs. Barna pointed out, as examples, that millions of people who consider themselves to be Christian now believe that the Bible is totally accurate in all of the lessons it teaches at the same time that they believe Jesus Christ sinned. Millions also contend that they will experience eternal salvation because they confessed their sins and accepted Christ as their savior, but also believe that a person can do enough good works to earn eternal salvation.
The true Spirit is one of unity. As one lives in the flesh and is led by a different spirit not of God there will be much disharmony and individualism.
One of the fruits of the true Spirit is faith. To believe and love Christ, to trust Him and obey everything He commanded. Living an unrepentant life of sexual immorality is not living a life of obeience and is a sign of being unfruitful. Satan is working overtime in America.
why would you diss adoption. are we not ourselves adopted. do you characterize our heavenly relationship with the father as substandard.
are saying that the surgate methods of producing children is of satan.
AGAIN by there fruits you will know them, is there something about these children that god allows to be born, that makes them of satan?
Mike,
I am focusing on Chrisitians living a Godly life Vs unbelievers and carnal Christians living an ungodly life. You keep bringing up comparisons between an ungodly life of homosexuality compared to an ungodly life of heterosexuality. I have addressed sexual immorality in all its forms; not exclusively focused on homosexuality. I don't disagree with you regarding the practices and results of other ungodly lifestyles. I hate the work of Satan in all he does.
What you and feet keep bringing up point to all the more reason that seminaries do need to instruct their students on the total aspect of sexuality including what is of God's design and what God means by sexual immorality and living in the flesh.
Perhaps you can answer this specific question regarding the post I addressed to feet yesterday at 9:03PM.
Are there any specific chapters and verses you can put forward that refute the verses I sited qualifying marriage, sex confined within the bonds of marriage and sexual immorality?
feetxxxl
you have said....
"that's what homosexual believers have in their marriages. yet you say the sex in these marriage is what defilies them.
how is it that sex defiles homosexual marriages but is affirming and is an expression of that devotion and commitment in heterosexual ones and frequency and satisfaction of sexual intimacy is encouraged not only by counselors , but also scripture itself."
Because, in essence, in a sexual relationship between a man and woman fruit is born to the honor and glory of God. In other words a soul is born.
A sexual relationship between the same genders cannot do this. There is no fruit born to the Kingdom.
God clearly marks the sexual relationship between the same genders as wrong.
HAWK
gal5:18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. ..................gal5:16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
homosexual believing marriages are of the fruit of the holy spirit in
the same way as heterosexual believing marriages.
the original translation 1cor and 1tim( kjv) is "defilersof themselves with mankind." homosexual believing marriages are about self affirmation and devotion and exude peace love etc the same as heterosexual believing marriages. there is no agreed understanding of what paul meant "malebed" to mean , and the translators left no written documentation for the reason for the transposition of "homosexuality." in other greek writings the term was used for anything other than homosexuality.
paul said thatwe are no longer under and have died to the law with christ. having said this why would he then turn around and make new ones for us to be under. by your understanding of our relationship to the law we are still livingunder the dictates of deut28 which is the essence of the old covenant
do you suppose, that any marriages gven over to the sin nature.... orgies, fits of rage,drunkeness of gal 5 would exude the same fruit as that of the holy spirit?
For this reason a man will leave
his father and mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh?
just because something is not mentioned in scripture does not mean it is against god.?why would scripture address the less than 3 % instead of the plus 97%?
as i said before jesus gave us the test for that which is of the kingdom. " you will recognize them by their fruit."
halver
"Without the sex you have just a relationship. And the bible does not have a problem with this unless the two are unevenly yoked."
that's amazing
i assume that you look at marriage, because of its devotion, faithfulness, intimacy and cherishing as one of the greatest among human relationships.
that's what homosexual believers have in their marriages. yet you say the sex in these marriage is what defilies them.
how is it that sex defiles homosexual marriages but is affirming and is an expression of that devotion and commitment in heterosexual ones and frequency and satisfaction of sexual intimacy is encouraged not only by counselors , but also scripture itself.
1cor7The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command.
if your comment is, paul is only .a addressing heterosexual marriages. of course he is. why would he be addressing the less than 3% of the population (assuming there existed anything resembling gay marriage) rather than the more than the 97% of the population.
yet, jesus more than accountedfor gay marriage when he said that "we would recognize them by their fruit."
since believing gay marriages have the same mutual ;love, devotion. affection etc as believing heterosexual marriages, they also are of god.
to continue to claim that it is against some god-created regulation, seeks to ressurect the old covenant relationship to the law and deny the authority of christ and the holy spirit. this .denys all that paul says is our relation to the law in romans, and denys what hebrews 8 says about the old covenant. and tries to resurrect the old covenant relationship to the law as in deut 28.
Hawk, you're not talking about pedophilia if its teen boys. A pedophile goes after pre-pubescent children. There are some gay priests, and I'm sure some of them do cruise gay bars....and? There are plenty of straight child porn rings around this country, as well as child trafficking from around the world. I do not see why you are so focused on bringing up these statistics, yet ignoring ones that are aimed at the straight community. I can tell from the way you speak that your heart is not open. You hate the gay community and everything we stand for, so you focus only on the bad that some gays have done and block out anything else. It makes it easier for you to have faith that your Bible holds all the answers without having to ask a single question, doesn't it?
Mike;
you said, "Hawk, he is connected with the church and the church pawns off what has happened on homosexuality..."
This is an ad hominem attack. There is nothing you presented that refutes the claims in his book.
This is one book that lives up to the jacket blurb "explosive." It documents attacks and rapes by seminary leaders, homosexual pornography and open "dating," intense pressure to approve homosexuality and priests who cruise gay bars.
A year ago, it would have been too much to believe. But recent headlines nationwide are no less bizarre.
In Miami, Fla., local priests have been accused of running a gay prostitution ring of altar boys.
In Boston, Cardinal Bernard Law is being pressured to resign over sexual abuse by 70 priests. The media label it "pedophilia," but the victims are not little boys and girls - they're teen boys. Last March, a Boston Herald story, "Priest fears gays in ranks pose threat to church," quoted a Boston priest as saying: "The problem is there's a subculture of gay priests and everyone knows it. I went through seminary with a lot of them and got hit on. And when I reported it, I was harassed to the point where, emotionally, it was very difficult to be ordained."
Mike;
My heart and mind are open to truth. My heart aches for those that are closed to the Word and God's saving Grace. My heart aches for those that are physically and emotionally wreaked due to sinful behaviors and guilt. My mind is open to the total truth from scripture and there is nothing in scripture that condones sexual immorality such as prostitution, intercourse outside of marriage, adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, incest, etc.
Paul talks to celibacy for all singles and marriage for those whose desire burns or who are led to marriage.
There are many on this site that pray for you as I do.
God Bless
Hawk, he is connected with the church and the church pawns off what has happened on homosexuality. Again, it is not accurate from a psychological perspective. Again, research with an open heart.
feet,
It appears that what you are missing with your interpretation from Gal 5:22-25 is that if a person is in the flesh he can not have the Spirit and therefore will lack the benefits of the fruit of the Spirit.
"I say then, walk by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don't do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar, about which I tell you in advance-as I told you before-that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:16-21 (HCSB)
Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God's kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom.
1 Cor 6:9-10 (HCSB)
But because of sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband. 3 A husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise a wife to her husband...otherwise, Satan may tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
1 Cor 7:2-5 (HCSB)
It is very obvious that sexual actitivity is to be enjoyed strictly within the bonds of marriage between one man and one woman. No other combination and no sexual behavior outside of marriage as this constitutes sexual immorality.
By God's creation it is only one man and one woman:
"Haven't you read," He replied, "that He who created them in the beginning made them male and female, 5 and He also said:
For this reason a man will leave
his father and mother
and be joined to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh?
6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, man must not separate."
Matt 19:4-6 (HCSB)
Mike;
you only focused on NAMBLA. Read the rest of the article and the references. It is a form of homosexuality. Reference the predatory homosexual assaults in the Catholic Church as another example:
The media won't touch it. The Catholic Church won't admit it. But thanks to Cincinnati author Michael S. Rose, dozens of priests and former seminary students are telling the truth about sexual abuse by priests.
"It's somewhat dishonest now to define the problem as pedophilia," Mr. Rose said. "That's not what we're seeing in the priesthood. What we're seeing is predatory homosexuality, and that's an element of the gay subculture."
Mr. Rose, 33, is the former editor of St. Catherine's Review. His book, Goodbye, Good Men, based on hundreds of interviews, argues that liberal theology has allowed a homosexual network to infiltrate and control the church, spreading what one priest called "a great moral evil."
Hawk, NAMBLA is a sickening organization made up of less than 1,000 members, so to quote them as if they speak for the gay community is wrong. Again, ask a licensed counselor and they will tell you your understanding of male-male molestation is wrong to think that means the adult man is gay. If you really cared enough to look into it with an open heart, you'd see that, but it might jade your beliefs.
Mike;
homosexual groups don't agree with your take; their pedophilia is still homosexual behavior and tied tightly with the gay community.
"....it remains condoned by many gay and lesbian leading North American activists who lobby for the lowering of the age of consent for sex.
It is said to be healthy for the boys involved by the self-proclaimed homosexual association NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Intergenerational sex (often used euphemism for pederasty) is an undeniable fixture of gay literature, gay films, gay travel and gay prostitution..."
Mike22685
you have said...
"..its at least what you believe God says"
No twists or turns here Mike....this is what the Word of God says.
And we're not even mentioning the sins of fornication and adultery which don't seem to be subject to the same interpretative problems. Yet they too are sexual sins.
..its at least what you believe God says.
wr, excellent point and I having been trying to make that point all along, that the sin of homosexuality is the sexual act be it physical or mental. That's what God's Word condemns and calls sin.
feetxxxl
you have said...
"you and others appear to be obsessed with the sex act".
In regards to homosexuality, the sexual relationship between two of the same gender is the sin.
There is no other definition for a homosexual relationship.
Without the sex you have just a relationship. And the bible does not have a problem with this unless the two are unevenly yoked.
"Again, blog after blog, you continue to defend the idea that the New Covenant favors the sexual sin of homosexuality."
you and others appear to be obsessed with the sex act.
the holy spirit does more than that, he sees it as a life and lifts them up, with praises, as part of god's diverse creation.
i have explained my reasoning about every scripture that relates to this issue. when i ask you and others questions about these same scriptures you refuse offer any explanation.
So I guess all those roman catholic schools with sexual segregation produce homosexuals at alarming rates then.
I can't see this being any other way right now seeing as how ungodly their system is.
feetxxxl
You have said...
i find it interesting that not being able to condemn homosxuality a sin, thru the teachings of christ, you turn to a bias based judeo christian political organization for what you would sell as scientific facts.
Again, blog after blog, you continue to defend the idea that the New Covenant favors the sexual sin of homosexuality.
And when asked to explain scriptures which clearly state that homosexuality is a sin, you divert attention back to other arguements which only creates more confusion.
The secular world believes in the defence of love your neighbor to justify homosexuality. But we are no longer of the secular world. We are of the Kingdom of God and all of its righteousness.
hawk
- 93% report anal sexual relations.
- 92% report oral/anal sexual activity.
- 17% report eating and/or rubbing
themselves with the feces of their
partners.
- 29% report urinating on or in their
partners.
- 37% report sadomasochism.
- 42% report "handballing" or "fisting"
where the hand or arm is inserted into
the rectum of their partner.
- 32% report bondage.
- 12% report giving or receiving of
enemas for sexual pleasure.
- 15% report sex with animals.
Published by The Berean League, June,
1991, 2875 Snelling Ave. N., St.
Paul, MN 55113.
BEREAN LEAGUE
i find it interesting that not being able to condemn homosxuality a sin, thru the teachings of christ, you turn to a bias based judeo christian political organization for what you would sell as scientific facts.
AGAIN I ASK ARE WE TO ASSUME THAT ALL THE NUMBERS THAT APPLY TO HOMOSEXUALS ALSO APPLY TO HETEROSEXUAL COUPLES WHO ALSO INDULGE IN ANAL SEX?
hawk
i know and love the book of galatian and have studied it many times . if you have something to say about galatians in regard to our discussion speak away.
i value:
Matthew 5:18
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
because it says that each word is important, and not to be dismissed..........................for the sake of context.
that being said, context is not to be dismissed, and also is important.
hawk
i know and love the book of galatian and have studied it many times . if you have something to say about galatians in regard to our discussion speak away.
i value:
Matthew 5:18
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
because it says that each word is important, and not to be dismissed..........................for the sake of context.
that being said, context is not to be dismissed, and also is important.
HAWK
a discussion requires answering the questions of the one you are having a discussion with, otherwise there is no discussion, just 2 people throwing words at each other.
AGAIN................The diseases are all preventable by abstaining and living in God's will and are a result of sinful behavior.
why is it you continually excude christ his authority and judgement when you conclude what is a of god. is it that you liken our relationship with god as that in deut 28?
why do do dismiss christs words of "you will recognize them by their fruit"
are you saying there are god's words that trump this?
what are they?
feet, you asked what words I am referring to. " but because there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. To me this is pretty plain. The one thing this forum has shown is that the article couldn't be more right. The church absolutely needs to know how to address not only homosexuality but also sex outside of marraige as well as sodomy of all kinds. I believe the job of judgement and convection belongs to the holy spirit and that we humans have no right to judge anyone. If you believe that jesus is the son of god and claim him lord then he will bring the things into your life to cause you to be saved. It is not something we can do or earn by doing the right thing. It is a gift of god. we are saved by grace in hope of rightiosness thru christ, and the reason I don't quote alot of scripture is because it can be interpreted so many different ways. Only the holy spirit can give us the truth. It is not up to me to save anyone. It is only up to me to bring one to Christ and he by himself is our salvation.
what point are you making?
Hawk, you don't understand the data. An adult male molesting a male boy does not make him gay. Being a pedophile means you are attracted to CHILDREN, not to a man or woman. The numbers you quote are horrifically twisted to make gays look bad, but ask any accredited psychologist and they will tell you your understanding is wrong. Nice try, but to continue that argument would be lying.
Mike;
you said: "Hawk, there is no link between being gay and child abuse."
Perhaps I should have used the term molestation though I would consider molestation the same as abuse; what about you?
Q6. Are homosexual men more inclined to child molestation than heterosexual men?
In gross numbers, no. Proportionally, yes, much more.
According to American studies, the evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys and
teenagers at rates completely disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls. A study shows that the homosexual child molester accounts for approximately 7 times
more victims than the heterosexual molester. When it comes to child sex abuse, men are almost always the perpetrator. Up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys, but less than 3% of the population is homosexual. Also according to a study published in Adolescence, 29% of the adult children of homosexual parents have been specifically subjected to sexual molestation as a child by a homosexual parent, compared to only
0.6 percent of adult children of heterosexual parents. According to the American Journal of Diseases of Children and The Advocate, close to 60%
of adolescent AIDS sufferers were infected by adult bisexual and homosexual men. Thousands of these American boys are now dead. The same is probably true for other western countries like Canada, where many young runaway boys end up prostituting themselves for men.
Although pedophilia is condemned by most homosexuals, it remains condoned by many gay and lesbian leading North American activists who lobby for the lowering of the age of consent for sex.
It is said to be healthy for the boys involved by the self-proclaimed homosexual association NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Intergenerational sex (often used euphemism for pederasty) is an undeniable fixture of gay literature, gay films, gay travel and gay prostitution. In the 70's, The Advocate repeatedly ran full page adds for a "Penetrable boy doll" and in the 90's, 21% of it's readers admitted having been molested before the age of 15.
References:
24 Baldwin, Steve, "Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement,"
http://www.regent.edu/acad/schlaw/lawreview/articles/14_2Baldwin.pdf
25 150 homosexual victims for 20 heterosexual victims per molester, Gene Abel et al., Self-reported Sex Crimes of Non
incarcerated Paraphiliacs, 2 J. Interpersonnal Violence 3,5-25(1987).
26 Cameron, P. and Cameron, K., (supra.)
27 "AIDS Amongst Adolescent", America's Journal of Diseases of Children, October 1990; "America's Worst Kept Secret: Aids is devastating the Nation's Children and Gay Kids are dying by the Thousands," The Advocate , March 4
1992, at 40-41
28 The Alyson Almanac: The Fact Book Of The Gay and Lesbian Community ( 23 rd edition); Spartagus international
Gay Guide (Bruno Gmunder ed.,2001)
29: The Men Sexual Revelations The Advocate Aug 23 1994
feet;
I do believe you are cherry picking a particular passage and interpreting it out of context of scripture. If you are willing we can study all of Galatians 5 and see if we can put that particular passage into it's proper context.
"If there was one bit of wisdom, one rule of thumb, one single skill I could impart, one useful tip I could leave that would serve you well the rest of your life, what would it be? What is the single most important practical skill I've ever learned as a Christian? Never read a Bible verse. That's right, never read a Bible verse. Instead, always read a paragraph (at least) if you want to unlock the meaning of a passage.
Think of it this way. When you stumble into the middle of a conversation and you hear a phrase or a sentence that piques your
curiosity, what's your next question? You ask, "What are you talking about?" You want the context so you can make sense of the
conversation and benefit from it.
This works because of a basic rule of all communication:
Meaning always flows from the top down, from the larger units to the smaller units, not the other way around. The key to the
meaning of any verse comes from the paragraph, not just from the individual words. The same is true when we stumble into the middle of a Bible passage. We can't know what God is talking about by looking at an
isolated sentence or phrase. We must consider the bigger picture."
Gregory Koukl, Stand to Reason
Are you up to the study?
feet, you asked what words I am referring to. " but because there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. To me this is pretty plain. The one thing this forum has shown is that the article couldn't be more right. The church absolutely needs to know how to address not only homosexuality but also sex outside of marraige as well as sodomy of all kinds. I believe the job of judgement and convection belongs to the holy spirit and that we humans have no right to judge anyone. If you believe that jesus is the son of god and claim him lord then he will bring the things into your life to cause you to be saved. It is not something we can do or earn by doing the right thing. It is a gift of god. we are saved by grace in hope of rightiosness thru christ, and the reason I don't quote alot of scripture is because it can be interpreted so many different ways. Only the holy spirit can give us the truth. It is not up to me to save anyone. It is only up to me to bring one to Christ and he by himself is our salvation.
Those who are able to convience themselves that homosexuality is not a sin have twist Scripture to come to such a conclusion. Nothing short of facing God at judgement will ever change hardened homosexuals minds. I have come to the conclusion that all the evidence in Scripture will not change their mind. If Romans 1 is not enough to open the homosexuals eyes, all the words in this forum won't either. HAWK49 you have given excellent sourses and have been very specfic with explaining the results of homosexuality.
feetxxl, your mind is made up and it is clear to me there is no reason to debate your understandings of homosexuality. I can only say that God loves you and what you think makes no difference, it is what the Lord says is what you will be accountable for.
I personally Feetxxl, know of no credible Bible Translation that does not say homosexuality is a sin. You twisted view of Scripture is sad to say the very least.
Hawk, there is no link between being gay and child abuse. You ignorance and hatred astounds me, and the fact that other "christians" can't see that floors me. You are hurting Christ's church, so badly!
" has always ment the same thing. It is sinfull to be a homosexual and no matter how you try to explain it it is still and always has been sinfull."
i know of no credible translation that says homosexuality is a sin.
lev not all old covenant prohibitions of themseves were sins. there is no reference to marriage. gay couples in my church marry.
1tim and 1cor "malebed" the translated greek has in no way been shown to mean "homosexuality"
it is interesting that the translators made transposition without one word of explanation.
possibbly because the first transposition was in england(no seperationof church and state) where a law had been on the books since henry the 8th for sodomy to be punished with hanging.
the original translation "defilers of themselves with mankind" is much more credible in that it allies itself with romans 1 which describes acts motivated by shamebased lust. passions that are full of shame (lust) engender self hatred and self loathing.
homosexual bonding is not about lust or shame or self hatred.(due penalty) but about acts motivated by mutual love, trust, respect, devotion, affection for a shared committed life together....... the same as with heterosexuals
how can motivations and relationships that are full of the fruit of the spirit be a sin.
would you say the same of murdering, thieving, adulterous alliances. of course not!
patience, kindness, faithfulness,etc for the sake of love that is god.
feet
S"orry, I should have said all sex is created from the sinfull nature of the flesh which inthis case is lust. It is only allowed between a man and his wife because the desire to have sex was put in us for procreation purposes. so sex between a man and his wife is allowed and not considered sin. Even by the quote you used from cor. states the same."
i dont see what you are saying about 1cor7 what specific words and verses are you referring to.
if you are going to annotate with scripture then please show how the words that you are referring to say what you. say.
The diseases are all preventable by abstaining and living in God's will and are a result of sinful behavior.
why is it you continually excude christ his authority and judgement when you conclude what is a of god. is it that you liken our relationship with god as that in deut 28?
why do do dismiss christs words of "you will recognize them by their fruit"
are you saying there are god's words that trump this?
what are they?
Look, the word immoral is not new and has always ment the same thing. It is sinfull to be a homosexual and no matter how you try to explain it it is still and always has been sinfull. This is not new. But I do agree that it is no more sinfull than any other sin and everyone sins. my wife has been a hair dresser for over 20 years and we have had gay friends, and I will tell you that they were probably some of the nicest people we have met. I do not condem you for being gay I am trying to help you and others see the error of your ways so that you will ask the living god to release you from this bondage. Only Christ can remove this desire for this type of sin. Oh by the way the rabbit trails as you refer to them are an example of the fruit of your influence.
feet
Sorry, I should have said all sex is created from the sinfull nature of the flesh which inthis case is lust. It is only allowed between a man and his wife because the desire to have sex was put in us for procreation purposes. so sex between a man and his wife is allowed and not considered sin. Even by the quote you used from cor. states the same.
feet,
you questioned, "then why are you emphasizing diseases. how are diseases any indication of what is of christ? and then
you stated; "every one of the diseases you mentioned could have been dealt with thru safe sex practices,"
What you state is absolute truth; safe sex practices are taught to us from scripture - a monogamous, heterosexual marriage living in accordance with God's will. Any thing else is not 'safe sex practices' as there are damaging consequences as to what the world teaches as safe sex.
The diseases are all preventable by abstaining and living in God's will and are a result of sinful behavior.
every one of the diseases you mentioned could have been dealt with thru safe sex practices,
Mike and feet;
1. You guys raise some important issues that the news story, not properly teaching about sexuality in seminaries, is all about. It's much larger than just the homosexual behaviors and lying agendas.
2. Unfortunately, you are attributing issues to me that I have never stated.
3. I have been primarily focusing upon living life in accordance with God's will, have I not? Therefore:
4. If you want to compare with heterosexual lifestyles that are in accordance with God's will then you will find a drastic difference between both heterosexual couples that are not living in God's will as well as with practicing homosexuals who can not be in God's will.
5. If you make comparisons of heterosexual couples who consider themselves Christian then you must break that comparison down to those that are truly born again Christians and those that are carnal Christians. Again, I would refer you to Paul Washer's sermon to better understand the difference. I would also advise you to research the cultural surveys that do make these differences known regarding divorce rates and other ethical issues, etc.
6. You guys appear to be in denial by ignoring the higher rates of disease of the gay community Vs straight community, be it AIDS, HIV, syphilis, GBS, early death, child abuse, etc. The CDC has a specialty addressing Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Health issues because the need is so great, much more than other behavioral groups.
7. You want to blame the 'persecution of homosexuals' here in America on these maladies, yet the studies in the Netherlands where homosexual behavior is accepted within the culture shows the same maladies.
8. But first and foremost; You are ignoring the Total Truth of God's will. He is a forgiving God. It's not too late to repent and turn your sinful desires over totally to His will. To truly face the fact that homosexual behavior, in addition to other sexual sins that you point out, are certain spiritual death as clearly documented in scripture but without cherry picking your favorite verses and ignoring the totality of the Bible. God loves you but He is also a just God and punishes unrepentant sinners. He desires for you to do His will and turn to Him for His love rather than seek that same love from another person.
God Bless and enjoy your weekend.
Hawk
feet;
Where did I ever say those words that you are fictiously extracting from my messages?
then why are you emphasizing diseases. how are diseases any indication of what is of christ?
feet;
Where did I ever say those words that you are fictiously extracting from my messages?
What I said was, from Matthew 7, that eternal life is for those that do the will of God; those that walk the narrow road and pass through the narrow gate; those that honestly accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior and repent of their sins.
Tom,
Thanks for the encouraging words. It is too bad that so many are blinded by Satan's lies and twist scripture to their liking to justify their own sinful behaviors and morals.
God Bless
Go hawk you are correct in your statements and admonishments. Till fine and feet and mike realize they are on the wrong side of this issue and that Jesus said indeed you will know them by their fruits. and by their written words fine,mike,feet's fruit is obvious to all. Until they realize that Jesus said the way is narrow that leads to life and broad is the way that leads to destruction they will not understand what Scripture is telling them. They need to repent of their sin and surrender to Jesus, heart,mind and soul then they will be set free of the sin that so easily ensnares them keep it up hawk Gods Blessing in Christ Tom
hawk
so you are saying that your understanding of jesus's words......"you will recognize them by their fruit" means you will recognize them by the diseases that they suffer, and their gender identity.
are you saying these are the treasures that last?
my understanding is that those of christ are laying up treasures in heaven. treasures that last. and that the only treasures that last are those of and in the fruit of the spirit......love, joy, peace,kindness, goodness, self control,gentleness , patience, and faithfulness.
are you saying that those that are not of christ are those who indulge in behaviors that cause them to suffer diseases? especially if those diseases ultimately kill them?
why the cross?
Hawk, each and every one of those things are practiced, at large, in the straight community. 1 in 4 teen girls have an STD...are they are gay? There is a 50% divorce rate....all straight couples of course. How many of those divorces do you suppose end because of infidelity? If you g to a porn website, you can find plenty of kinky ways straight people get off that would flip your stomach (for instance, the 2 girls, one cup video that went around the internet in which a girl defecates into another girls mouth, then the other girls vomits it over the first girl's naked chest.) When you look at statistics, you can try to make any group look awful, but that does not come from a place of love! It comes from a place of hatred or fear, and you feel some burning need to slam the gay community down and make it seem as if we're all card carrying members of this promiscuous, AIDS filled society. I can't tell you how many committed, STD-free couples I know, but no matter how many times I say it, you will keep going back to the statistics (but ignoring any statistics that might make the straight community look bad.) Again you hate the SINNER, not so much the sin.
Mike,
The basis for this discussion link is dealing with sexuality issues. Not exclusively about you. Since you are sexually active then you can take your pick of the risks involved depending upon what activity(s) you practice. Regardless, there are higher health risks involved inspite of the lies from the homosexual agenda:
The Health Risks of Gay Sex
Introduction
I. Differences between homosexual and heterosexual relationships
A. Promiscuity
B. Physical health
1. Male Homosexual Behavior
a. Anal-genital
b. Oral-anal
c. Human Waste
d. Fisting
e. Sadism
f. Conclusion
2. Female Homosexual Behavior
C. Mental health
1. Psychiatric Illness
2. Reckless Sexual Behavior
D. Life span
E. Definition of 'monogamy'
Hawk, you can fantasize about my sex life all you want, but my being gay is not characterized by how or if I have sex. I am gay regardless of if I am in a relationship or sexually active, and there are many ways of expressing sexual intimacy besides anal sex, which you seem to confine your mind to. If you need to believe the garbage to researched to make yourself feel better, that is fine and dandy, but it only leads you to hate the sinner more, not the sin. You are going down a very dangerous path.
Mike,
I quote three documents published in 1999, 1998 and 1981. Until you can prove them wrong then I will claim them as legitimate answers to your question.
But is you question really not a red herring? Isn't the real issue whether or not homosexual behavior is far risker than a God based heterosexual behavior? Wouldn't that point to God's warnings? Isn't this about life and death (both physically and spiritually)? To say I'm hateful because I care about your life is very misdirected. As I've said, I hate the agenda and lies that you have bought into, but I do not hate you nor feet.
Unhealthy aspects of "monogamous" homosexual relationships Even those homosexual relationships that are loosely termed 'monogamous' do not necessarily result in healthier behavior.
- The exclusivity of the relationship did not diminish the incidence of unhealthy sexual acts, which are commonplace among homosexuals. An English study published in the same issue of the journal AIDS concurred, finding that most 'unsafe' sex acts among homosexuals occur in steady relationships.
G. J. Hart et al., 'Risk Behaviour, Anti-hiv and Anti-Hepatitis B Core Prevalence in Clinic and Non-clinic Samples of Gay Men in England', 1991-1992, AIDS, July 1993, 863-869, cited in "Homosexual Marriage: The Next Demand," Position Analysis paper by Colorado for Family Values (May 1994).
Anal intercourse is the sine qua non of sex for many gay men. Yet human physiology makes it clear that the body was not designed to accommodate this activity. The rectum is significantly different from the vagina with regard to suitability for penetration by a penis. The vagina has natural lubricants and is supported by a network of muscles. It is composed of a mucus membrane with a multi-layer stratified squamous epithelium that allows it to endure friction without damage and to resist the immunological actions caused by semen and sperm. In comparison, the anus is a delicate mechanism of small muscles that comprise an 'exit-only' passage. With repeated trauma, friction and stretching, the sphincter loses its tone and its ability to maintain a tight seal. Consequently, anal intercourse leads to leakage of fecal material that can easily become chronic.
The potential for injury is exacerbated by the fact that the intestine has only a single layer of cells separating it from highly vascular tissue, that is, blood. Therefore, any organisms that are introduced into the rectum have a much easier time establishing a foothold for infection than they would in a vagina. The single layer tissue cannot withstand the friction associated with penile penetration, resulting in traumas that expose both participants to blood, organisms in feces, and a mixing of bodily fluids.
Dr. John R. Diggs, Jr., "The Health Risks of Gay Sex." Corporate Resource Council (2002).
dokie
"All sex is sin because it is commited out of lust and desire for self gratification. It is only allowed between a man and his mate because of this desire that was put in us for reproduction purposes?"
how is that possible? god created sex..................god created sin.............god made us sexual beings. ..........it is thru the essence of sexuality that we express ourselves, would you say all conversation is a sin if it isnt addressing issues about god.
in genesis god gives adam a mate to whom he is sexually attracted. gratification is a sin?.................where in scripture does it say gratification is a sin............................
when people in a troubled marriage go to either a secular or clerical counselor , the counselors questions are about frequency and GRATIFICATION their sexual intimacy
1cor7:1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.[a] 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
where do you see sin in this. where is there a restriction for sex only for procreation.
the rest is your message is purely hypothetical, and you are going down rabbit trails about origin.
jesus did not say you will recognize them by their gender identification. he said you will recognize them by their fruit....................fruit of the spirit.gal 5 if what you said is true then homosexuals would be known for being filled with denial, deceit, or delusion. there is no witness that validates this.
Hawk, you quote medical documents from 1981 and claim they still hold water? You are pathetic! shame on you for spreading such fear and lies against the gay community solely to try and make your Bible seem more real. You are not a Christian, the hatred in your heart burns through your posts! I suggest you seriously, SERIOUSLY examine your heart before you continue.
Hawk: I asked you a question.
feet
you said: "my interest is in the teachings of christ." Do you consider only the red letters or do you take Christ's teachings as the total Bible from Genesis through the end of Revelation?
Mike:
you missed: some pathogens associated with enteritis and proctocolitis [see below] "appear only to be sexually transmitted among men who have sex with men."[38]
37. Health Implications; See Morin, Anal Pleasure and Health, p. 220, 1.
38. Health Implications.
This appears fairly exclusive to MSM to me.
"As far as I know, there is no other group of people in the United States that dies of infectious diseases in their mid-forties except practicing homosexuals. This, to me, is tragic, when we know that homosexuality can be prevented, in many cases, or substantially healed in adulthood when there is sufficient motivation and help"
This appears pretty exclusive from Why Isn't Homosexuality Considered A Disorder On The Basis Of Its Medical Consequences?, by Kathleen Melonakos, M.A., R.N.Delaware Family Foundation
SCOURGE OF THE GAYS
A rare and dangerous disease whose victims are almost exclusively homosexual and bisexual men has hit Britain. Brian Deer explains why the specialists are worried.
Doctors released the worst possible news for gay men last week with a report on the first death in Britain from one of the extraordinary 'gay syndrome' diseases which have stunned the US gay community during 1981.
A 49-year-old gay man died from pneumocystis carinii pneumonia (PCP) ten days after being admitted to the Brompton Hospital. He had lost weight over three months and suffered three weeks' general malaise and progressive breathlessness.
His case is identical to a series of puzzling US reports collated by the federal Centers for Disease Control (CDC) in Atlanta. Brompton Hospital doctors believe it may be significant that their patient regularly visited the States.
This one also appears rather exclusive!
Hawk: How much do you weigh?
Feet
Glad you made it back. I was beginning to think you wasnt going to get back to see my answer. Im not sure what your asking. If you are looking for scripture to back up my comments then scripture only says what is sin and the problem in this is people get different interpretations according to the belief they want to have. Only the holy spirit can give us the right interpretation which is why one should not used his own understanding to judge. The holy spirit gives us understanding and conviction that causes us to repent, and our salvation is between us and God alone. No one knows when that truth and understanding will come but it is done in the time the spirit sees fit.
#
Mike22685
Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:59 pm : 0 : 2 Flag
"Hawk, gay bowel syndrome can be experienced by any straight couple who practices anal sex. Sorry, not exclusive."
This is true. It is also true that anal sex is sodomy, regardless of what combination of genders are doing it, and I think we all know what happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.
without annotation we end up giving the gospel according to ourselves. my interest is in the teachings of christ.
dokie
Feet,
sorry I have not answered your queation. I made the post and then watched the football game. by the time it was over it was getting late. I did check your post before going to bed. I did not want to give you a typical answer so I took it to the holy spirit for the best way to answer you.
There are many types of sin. there is natural sin( disease, pestilence, death etc ). Inherited sin which is the influence of thought from your mother and father and the surroundings of influence that they put you in. and then there is sin that one personally commits. In the sin that you commit there are at least two kinds. The thing you do to an individual ( lie, steal, adultry etc ) , and the way you influence others. Now the question was " how is homosexuallity a sin against the second law of the new covenant.
All sex is sin because it is commited out of lust and desire for self gratification. It is only allowed between a man and his mate because of this desire that was put in us for reproduction purposes. You can say, No I have sex to satisfy my partner. Maybe, but without this desire you could not get aroused to have sex. It would be imposible, so it is a fact the sex is created out of lust.
The first time a person has sex is scary and usually with someone you really care about or even think you're in love with. If that relationship does not last then this is where the problem starts. Sexual desire is the strongest emotion we have.Once we have experienced sex, the desire is even stronger so instead of waiting to have sex after finding that type of relationship again, most people will have sex looking for that kind of relationship and think they are in love because of sex. This causes wrong marriages and keeps us from finding true love, causeing divorce, and kids to grow up in violence and hate among other problems because of a loveless marriage. This is the same for homosexual as well as heterosexual relationships.
If that person would have abstained from sex untill marriage, they would find their true love someday and experiencing sex for the first time together will form an even stronger bond. If others see you in your sexual sin and your actions convence him that it is normal and acceptable then you have caused him to sin and he will have the same problems because of you.
you left out your annotation , please give your annotation.
Continued,
Im sure that someone is going to say that they have no choice and are compelled to be homosexual. One law of nature is " How you think causes what you do, causeing your surroundings which causes what happens to you. In the case of homosexuallity, something in their past has caused them to believe they are supposed to be gay. If a person got used to gay sex then the thought of sex with the same sex person would cause them to get aroused,( just like any other sex a person might get use to ) and their desire is making that choice for them leading them to believe that they are that way naturally and have been that way since birth. This is a lie of the devil to keep you from finding the kingdom of god. there is a way to get rid of these feelings. Get on your knees and pray for fogiveness and ask the holy spirit to heal you and bring you into the will of God.
Feet,
sorry I have not answered your queation. I made the post and then watched the football game. by the time it was over it was getting late. I did check your post before going to bed. I did not want to give you a typical answer so I took it to the holy spirit for the best way to answer you.
There are many types of sin. there is natural sin( disease, pestilence, death etc ). Inherited sin which is the influence of thought from your mother and father and the surroundings of influence that they put you in. and then there is sin that one personally commits. In the sin that you commit there are at least two kinds. The thing you do to an individual ( lie, steal, adultry etc ) , and the way you influence others. Now the question was " how is homosexuallity a sin against the second law of the new covenant.
All sex is sin because it is commited out of lust and desire for self gratification. It is only allowed between a man and his mate because of this desire that was put in us for reproduction purposes. You can say, No I have sex to satisfy my partner. Maybe, but without this desire you could not get aroused to have sex. It would be imposible, so it is a fact the sex is created out of lust.
The first time a person has sex is scary and usually with someone you really care about or even think you're in love with. If that relationship does not last then this is where the problem starts. Sexual desire is the strongest emotion we have.Once we have experienced sex, the desire is even stronger so instead of waiting to have sex after finding that type of relationship again, most people will have sex looking for that kind of relationship and think they are in love because of sex. This causes wrong marriages and keeps us from finding true love, causeing divorce, and kids to grow up in violence and hate among other problems because of a loveless marriage. This is the same for homosexual as well as heterosexual relationships.
If that person would have abstained from sex untill marriage, they would find their true love someday and experiencing sex for the first time together will form an even stronger bond. If others see you in your sexual sin and your actions convence him that it is normal and acceptable then you have caused him to sin and he will have the same problems because of you.
Hawk, gay bowel syndrome can be experienced by any straight couple who practices anal sex. Sorry, not exclusive.
So many words! Have you ever wondered why Jesus was able to summarize God's desired relationship with mankind in just three years of ministry? I suggest that spending some serious time on the words of Jesus be a priority for our lives in 2009! Jesus (God incarnate) did not waste a single word. It was He who said that we will be responsible for every word we utter (or write). He made the truth so obvious that a child can understand His meaning and His plan. The merry-go-round you are on concerning the discussion of homosexuality is really proving to be an end unto itself! Step off of the ride and seek the author of life for your answers. They will not be found in consulting one another. Let each man live according to their own interpretation of God's Word. And let each man be ready to accept the perecution that comes with standing up for your faith.
Mike,
I do hate the sin, but not the sinner. I do hate the political agenda that is misrepresenting the truth of homosexuality.
For your question. Try Gay Bowel Syndrome. According to a report in The Health Implications of Homosexuality by the Medical Institute for Sexual Health, some pathogens associated with enteritis and proctocolitis [see below] "appear only to be sexually transmitted among men who have sex with men."[38]
37. Health Implications; See Morin, Anal Pleasure and Health, p. 220, 1.
38. Health Implications.
feet,
Gal 5 is one chapter within the total Bible and we have to comprehend Gal 5 within the context of the total Bible. God is the same whether past, present or future. Homosexual behavior is identified as sin both in the OT and NT which needs to be considered when reading and understanding Gal 5. Both God and Jesus in the OT and NT are specific that marriage is between one man and one woman. Sexual activity is to be practiced within the confines of marriage only between one man and one woman. Only recently under higher criticism and liberal interpretation can you only focus on Gal 5 and ignore the rest of the text. Only through liberal interpretation can you begin to pick and choose what "form" of homosexual behavior is "OK" with God and which is not and ignore where the Bible says proper sex is to take place and with whom. There is nothing in the Bible that makes these distinguishing differences of homosexual behavior. Sin is sin and there are consequences whether it is heterosexual sinful behavior or homosexual behavior or any of the other nonsexual sinful practices. That is why the road to destruction is so wide as very few have truly accepted Jesus Christ, repented, and desire to live within God's will. When you have about 1 hour available I'd strongly recommend you listen to Paul Washer if you consider yourself a Christian. It is not about homosexuality but about true belief Vs a phony acceptance of Christ and the wide road to hell:
http://www.talkjesus.com/streaming-multimedia/20066-shocking-youth-message-stuns-hearers.html
Hawk, give me one disease exclusive to the gay community. I can feel the hatred in your heart seething through your posts. You will stop at nothing to lie and twist words just so gays look even worse. Again, shame on you.
Mike and feet
What you fail to consider when you say heteros suffer the same is that it is predominate among homosexuals and not predominate among the heterosexual community. In addition, you fail to distinguish between heterosexuals that live by God's will (ie: monogamous marriage) Vs those that engage in ungodly sexual practices as these diseases are found only among those that are not within God's will.
You also fail to acknowledge that some of the diseases are exclusive to the homosexual community.
pan,
thanks
Sorry Hawk, you're last comment made all the sense in the world. My statement of lack clarity on the blogger part was originally meant for fetxxxl
The homosexual lifestyle and sexual practices
- A 1972 study by the U.S. Centers for
Disease Control revealed that 50% of
male homosexuals have had over 500
different sexual partners. For AIDS
victims the average is 1,100 different
sexual partners.
- In one study, two homosexual researchers
found that 73% of adult male
homosexuals have had sex with boys
age 19 or younger.
- 93% report anal sexual relations.
- 92% report oral/anal sexual activity.
- 17% report eating and/or rubbing
themselves with the feces of their
partners.
- 29% report urinating on or in their
partners.
- 37% report sadomasochism.
- 42% report "handballing" or "fisting"
where the hand or arm is inserted into
the rectum of their partner.
- 32% report bondage.
- 12% report giving or receiving of
enemas for sexual pleasure.
- 15% report sex with animals.
Published by The Berean League, June,
1991, 2875 Snelling Ave. N., St.
Paul, MN 55113.
Hawk, your last comment didn't make senses.
10 MYTHS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY
http://www.afa.net/homosexual_agenda/homosexuality.pdf
Myth #1 - 10% of the population is homosexual. (it's between 1% - 3%)
Myth #2 - Homosexuality occurs in the animal kingdom and is therefore natural. (human sexuality is not the same as animal sexuality)
Myth #3 - Homosexuality is genetically endowed, and therefore is not only natural, but one should not be "punished" or forbidden from expressing his homosexuality. (there is no "gay" gene)
Myth #4 - It has been discovered that the hypothalamus is different in homosexuals, which suggests that there is a physiological cause of homosexuality. (conclusion based on junk science)
Myth #5 - The American Psychiatric Association changed its designation of
homosexuality to normal, therefore the medical community recognizes that homosexuality is normal. (due to politically correct revisionism; not scientific research)
Myth #6 - Homosexuals cannot change to being heterosexual. (Absolutely false, there is hope in caring ministries for those that want to change)
Myth #7 - More sexual crimes against children are committed by heterosexuals than homosexuals, therefore a heterosexual is more likely to be a pedophile than a homosexual is. (distorted statistic; 1% -3% of population, the gay community, commits 25% - 40% of sex crimes against children)
Myth #8 - Homosexuals are an oppressed minority and should have the same civil rights extended to them regarding their homosexuality as other minorities.
(abnormal behavior does not constitute a civil right)
Myth #1 - The Bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, per se, only promiscuity. (God loves sinners but condemns sinful behaviors such as homosexuality, beastiality, adultry, lust, etc)
hawk
heterosexuals have been practicing anal sex since the beginning of man. yet there are no health statistics for heterosexuals who practice this. in fact given the number of heterosexual couples who practice some form of anal stimulation and the numbers homosexual couples, in all likelihood there may be more heterosexuals practicing this form of sex than homosexuals.
Hawk, all of those things are possibilities that are just as real for any straight person who chooses to be promiscuous. You are a pathetic Christian that you rely on scare tactics, as if your interpretation of the Bible is not good enough. You resort to researching facts that are grossly overstated (i.e. gay men fail to talk about their HIV status...not any of the gays I have known who are HIV positive!) You spread hatred talking like that, shame on you!
it is interesting that you hawk, like dokie and 08 are unable to answer any of my questions................these are all biblically based. this means that in the two years i have been asking these same questions, to date no one has yet been abled to answer them.
paul says in gal5 the the acts of the sin nature are " obvious". this means by their very nature, they show how they come against the fruit of the spirit and the spirit of christ. if i asked you the same questions about adultery, murder, or thievery you would have no problem answering.
the fact that homosexuality has no obvious indications by its nature that it like murder, etc comes against all that is christ, becomes evidence in itself that homosexuality is not a sin.
hawk
many of the diseases that you have listed would be the same for sexually addictive heterosexuals who had several hundred pardners with unprotected sex.
all this proves that homosexuals and heterosexuals who suffer from sexual addiction and act it out with unprotected sex will get life threatening diseases that will shorten their mortality.
this has nothing to with the spirit essence of either orientation.
homosexual believers bond out mutual love, respect, affection, devotion for a shared committed life together culminating into marriage, the same as with heterosexual believers.
hawk 49
there isnt one thing you have listed that cant dealt with thru safe sex practices.
narth is not a credible scientific organization.
all the statistics you are quoting are for those whose sexual addiction, has resulted in several hundred of pardners annually.
none of the statistics are about believing bonded homosexual couples who in marrying live a shared commited life together.
if you put as much energy in witnessing to homosexual believers who after marriage live shared committed lives as you do quoting bias based statistics you would know this.
but then you would be forced to abandon a theology that you have a huge investment in.
feet;
There are few believers but many that call themselves Christian. Jesus addressed your question quite well in Matthew 7.
"Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it. How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it...."
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but [only] the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?' Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'
Matt 7:13-14 and 21-23
God gave good warning in Romans. Homosexual behavior is sinful and there are consequences as He demonstrated from the OT. There are so many loving cohabitating couples, very loving adulterers, etc. But they are all sinning and violating God's will. We all sin and deserve hell; only those that repent and trust Jesus have eternal life. Repenting is turning away and not continuing in a sinful lifestyle.
Myth #9 - Homosexuals are normal, healthy, everyday people.
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/PnSx/HSx/HealthHosx2.htm
Homosexuals Fail to Disclose Their HIV Status to Sex Partners
Young Homosexuals are at Increased Risk.
High Incidence of Homosexual Promiscuity & Promiscuity among Homosexual Couples.
Human Papillomavirus (HPV). HPV is a collection of more than seventy types of viruses that can cause warts, or papillomas, on various parts of the body. More than twenty types of HPV are incurable. HPV is "almost universal" among homosexuals. HPV can lead to anal cancer.
Hepatitis: A potentially fatal liver disease that increases the risk of liver cancer. "Outbreaks of hepatitis A among gay men are a recurring problem in many large cities in the industrialized world."
Gonorrhea: Gonorrhea traditionally occurs on the genitals, but has recently appeared in the rectal region and in the throat. A CDC report documents "significant increases...in rectal gonorrhea...among gays," The incidence of throat Gonorrhea is strongly associated with homosexual behavior.
Syphilis: According to the CDC, "transmission of the organism occurs during vaginal, anal, or oral sex." In addition, the Archives of Internal Medicine found that homosexuals acquired syphilis at a rate ten times that of heterosexuals.
Gay Bowel Syndrome (GBS)": The Journal of the American Medical Association refers to GBS problems such as proctitis, proctocolitis, and enteritis as "sexually transmitted gastrointestinal syndromes."
HIV/AIDS Among Homosexuals. The human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is responsible for causing AIDS, for which there exists no cure.
"Exclusive" Lesbian Relationships Also at Risk. The assumption that lesbians involved in exclusive sexual relationships are at reduced risk for sexual disease is false. The journal Sexually Transmitted Infections concludes: "The risk behavior profile of exclusive lesbians was similar to all lesbians."
Greater Cancer Risk Factors for Lesbians.
Compulsive Behavior among Lesbians. A study published in Nursing Research found that lesbians are three times more likely to abuse alcohol and to suffer from other compulsive behaviors
Greater Violence in Lesbian and Homosexual Relationships.
High Incidence of Mental Health Problems among Homosexuals and Lesbians and greater risk of suicide.
Reduced Life Span.
Mike22685 wrote: "Evil makes bad things happen."
All the time? Or can evil decieve also?
I think it is concerning that people believe if a person is a good person, but never obeys the Gospel they will go to heaven. Is that not evil making a bad thing happen except by the time you find out it's too late.
(quick pro quo ~ I really am talking about the above ~ thought I should make that clear)
the one topic the article did not mention that is hotter than all the other issues put together(excluding homosexuality) and that is sex prior to marriage.
all the trends indicate, that more than a majority of believers no longer abide by any abstinacce, regarding this issue.
the question is.......... how does the essence of sex prior to marriage come against the second commandment?
o8 and dokie
under the new covenant, the 2nd commandment is the summation of all the law. that being the case, all the law that is the concern of believers under the new covenant, the law making us conscious of sin, is that law whose essence is about loving ones neighbor as oneself. so now, anything that is a sin, is that which comes against this commandment.
how does homosexuality come against the second commandment?
we know that the fruit of the spirit is explained in gal5. jesussaid " we will recognize them by their fruit." and we know that fruit of the spirit of satan is not the same as the fruit of the holy spirit.
of what spirit is homosexuality given over to so that its fruit, is not that of the holy spirit. what is that fruit?
and last how does the parables of matthew, " a good tree cannot produce bad fruit" etc, apply to homosexuality?
homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society, compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a father, friend, counselor, teacher, doctor, neighbor, brother etc.
would you say the same of those given over to sin nature of gal 5 with those who are not?
o8 and dokie
under the new covenant, the 2nd commandment is the summation of all the law. that being the case, all the law that is the concern of believers under the new covenant, the law making us conscious of sin, is that law whose essence is about loving ones neighbor as oneself. so now, anything that is a sin, is that which comes against this commandment.
how does homosexuality come against the second commandment?
we know that the fruit of the spirit is explained in gal5. jesussaid " we will recognize them by their fruit." and we know that fruit of the spirit of satan is not the same as the fruit of the holy spirit.
of what spirit is homosexuality given over to so that its fruit, is not that of the holy spirit. what is that fruit?
and last how does the parables of matthew, " a good tree cannot produce bad fruit" etc, apply to homosexuality?
homosexuals have never been found wanting in any sector of society, compared to heterosexuals. they are not less a father, friend, counselor, teacher, doctor, neighbor, brother etc.
would you say the same of those given over to sin nature of gal 5 with those who are not?
I don't think the BIble is clear on homosexuality whatsoever, and I definitely don't think its condemned. Me loving my partner is not evil in any way. Evil makes bad things happen. What bad thing will happen from our relationship?
"Now in my belief I accept all people who wish to come to jesus, in their sin, just as they are, and the lord will convict them with his word and will remove sin from their life as the holy spirit gives them understanding"
I agree with that belief; I think some Christians want to tell people the truth (whether lovingly or not) so much that they minimize the role of faith in being with people who are "not of the Lord". We have to have faith that it is not our words but the presence of Holy Spirit which will lead people to Christ. In that, I am saying that human words will never lead to the presence of the Holy Spirit (though they may point to it, but that still does not mean they actually experience the HS)
We must be willing to acknowledge that despite our good intentions someone's "coming to Christ" does not FULLY depend on what we do or say. The Spirit, if we truly believe that God wants everyone to be saved, will surely there to lead people to Christ.
Some of us here at cp just had a very good conversation over this very subject. How do we deal with homosexuallity? There is a new covenant. The covenant of the law was given to Moses for Israel. At this time God did not work with any other people and none but Israel was included in the covenant. This covenant basically stated obey my law and inherit eternal life in heaven. But the law was found to be inaffective because of our lack of understanding and our inability to judge the law rightly. Even after having the law for 1500 years, the jewish church found Jesus guilty by their interpretation of the law and crucified there own christ. A new and better covenant has been made. It was prophecied by the prophet Isaiah and states, "I will take my people and I will put my word in their mind and in their hearts. They will be my people and I will be their god" This prophecy and this covenant was fullfilled by the death and resurection of Jesus and the form of the christian religion and is confirmed by the apostle Paul. If there is a new covenant then the old covenant is no longer in effect. How Jesus fullfills this new covenant is also the good news message that we are supposed to be spredding. God is no longer waitng for us to come to him he is comming to get us. ( the christian religion is the only religion that asks everyone to join them and come to jesus, thus God is crying out to us to here his voice.) He will put his word in our mind and in our hearts. ( the teachings of jesus makes us a new person and we will think different which makes us not sin because we no longer have the desire to. Jesus forgives sin so that we can come to him uninhibited. Salvation is a gift and god is doing it and who are we to stand in his way. Christianity has become a form of judaism which already voices the law so what is the purpose of christ if he only restates what is already known. Jesus is the new covenant and it is time his gospel was revived. The law is of the flesh and the weekness of the flesh made it impossible. Christ is of the spirit, which is the way one thinks, and thru the spirit the law is fullfilled thus there is no use for the law. Now in my belief I accept all people who wish to come to jesus, in their sin, just as they are, and the lord will convict them with his word and will remove sin from their life as the holy spirit gives them understanding. Gay sex is no worse a sin than promiscuous unmarried sex or any other sin. Now we do have a right to protect our family and our extended church family from the influences of evil, so, we can not appear that we condone or approve of sin. So how do we deal with it? I think that we state our beliefs without doing it directly toward an individual. This way we are standing against sin without condeming any person. This is a very difficult topic but I think the church needs to come into agreement on how we are supposed to handle it according to scripture. So with that being said what does everyone else think ?