Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Church|Tue, Jan. 13 2009 04:07 PM EST

10 Stupid Things That Keep Churches from Growing

By Michelle A. Vu|Christian Post Reporter

“The idea holds that if we simply arrange our lives according to the formula God first, family second, and ministry third, then everything will flow together smoothly,” Surratt writes. “It’s a great theory, but unfortunately, life doesn’t work that way.

“First, God isn’t a priority in life; God is life. He isn’t more important than your family any more than air is more important that your shoes. I don’t prioritize breathing; I breathe so that I live.”

Surratt highly recommends any pastor or church leader to seek Christian marriage counseling if they’re having trouble in their relationship. Rather than feeling embarrassed that they need help, pastors should understand that sometimes they need a third party for them to open up and share their thoughts and feelings.

“A funny thing about pastors is that when they need to fix their car, they go to a mechanic, and when they need to fix their health, they go to a doctor, but when their marriage needs help, they are almost never willing to go to an expert for help,” Surratt writes half-jokingly.

“Of all the stupid mistakes a pastor can make, not getting help with his marriage is the dumbest of all.”

Although the book was written with pastors as the intended readers, Surratt contends the tips in his book can be helpful to any leader in the church.

Other mistakes covered in the book include: promoting talent over integrity, clinging to a bad location, copying another successful church, mixing ministry and business, and providing a second-rate worship experience.

The book Ten Stupid Things That Keep Churches From Growing is scheduled to be released in May 2009 by Zondervan publishing company.

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  • Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:57 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    I think there may be an 11th.... The bad jokes told from the pulpit.... :-)

  • Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Oh I recognize the Pope alright. How can you miss someone who wears a tall funny looking hat?

  • Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    A friend of mine posted on his facebook page...

    Jews don't recognize Christ.
    Protestants don't recognize the Pope.
    Baptists don't recognize each other in the liquor store...

    Now there's humor with a point!!!

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    *groan*

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    I had a Bible college prof that told us about David's motorcycle. He explained that David's Triumph was heard throughout the land.... Talk about loud mufflers....

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DP,
    I'm waiting for the punch line...

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Daniel,
    You're driving me crazy! It would be best if I steered clear of you for a while. I'm gonna head back to the hood, yo!

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Do keep track of how many of them go "huh???". That's where all the fun is. :D

    You did know that King David had a motorcycle....

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    DP: That was LOLOLOLOL! I'm gonna call all the students in my Greek class in college and use that one! :)

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Why are you treading on me? Someone else has already accused you of being over inflated! I thought it was a little low. If you follow that up enough you would be shocked....

    Face it...puns are where the rubber meets the road. :-)

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Oy. You auto be ashamed of yourself. You know I'm growing "tired" of these puns. LOL.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "one accord" greek = "honda"

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    salt,
    It is truth.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Forgiven,
    You said "In Acts 20 Paul calls the elders of the church at Ephesus to him. Paul then charges them to "take heed to yourselves and all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Paul continues to say the same elders "To shepherd the church".

    That does not necessitate that bishops and elders and pastors are the same thing. It could be that the elders were doing the work of a pastor or bishop (or vice versa) due to lack of qualified people or because that is their calling. I know a number of pastors who are prophets (or is it prophets who are pastors?) Either way, we see that prophets and pastors are not the same thing, but that God sometimes uses them together. I have seen that the office of prophet and evangelist a lot of times go hand in hand. It doens't mean they are the same thing. I've seen evagelist/teachers and pastor/teachers and apostle/pastors. Though used together they are still different offices and different anointings.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    weekend,

    Pardon my terseness, but that is a really stupid question. How about this....
    Where does it say that pastors are are among the Church past the time of the early Christian church? I don't see that in my Greek New Testament.
    Or prophets, teachers, evangelists. What I am getting from you is a preconceived religious indoctrination that has no merit. Such as the saying "prophets don't call themselves prophets" even though Isaiah did, as well as Jesus Himself. Such false indoctrination is what ends up leading people where they shouldn't go. Don't read into the Bible that which is not there. Because everything in the New Testament could be argued that it was only for the people of that time.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:35 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    "Here's the only reason that church's don't grow.
    1. Not preaching and teaching the whole Word of God. "

    I know plenty of churches that preach and teach the whole Word of God that do not grow. The problem comes in that they don't live it. Faith without works is dead.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    teddy, genuine spiritual growth yes, but if that were to occur in some churches it may very well cause them to lose numbers, but I believe God's desire is genuine growth and not numerical growth. But there is a high probability that genuine spiritual growth will lead to numerical growth.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:30 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Here's the only reason that church's don't grow.

    1. Not preaching and teaching the whole Word of God.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    But I think there is a difference between and apostle and the Apostles. The Apostles were limited to those initial 12 men who Christ handpicked to be His Apostles and then Paul whom He called on the Damascus Road and their are some who question as to whether or not Matthias was genuinely called of God to be one of the Apostles. What all these men had in common was they had a direct physical encounter with Jesus Christ and they were specifically called of God to the position of Apostle with once again the possible exception of Matthias.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    From Strong's Concordance, apostolos from G649, a delegate, specifically an ambassador of the Gospel; officially a commissioner of Jesus Christ("apostle")(with miraculous powers):-apostle, messenger, he that is sent.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:54 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet: And where in the Greek does it say that Apostles are among the Church past the time of the early Christian church? I don't see that in my Greek New Testament.

  • Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    weekend,
    I looked at the Greek translation.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet: Where in Scripture do you find your definition of "Apostle"?

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    psst. im was being sacrcastic by the way. just didnt want anyone to think i was a heathen.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    salty,
    hey! that was supposed to be a secret! you want everyone to give everything? next thing you know people will start getting a conscience. then heaven will be overcrowded. and not to mention what this world would be like if christians actually did give all of themselves to God. all the love and unity. gives me the heebee jeebies just thinking about it.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    nololady,

    I agree. I remember when our church wanted to get rid of our 'beloved' organ in exchange for a keyboard. You should have seen the controversy that created! Oy! But we still mix hymns in with our more contemporary music as well. And I do love some of those hymns. My favorite is "In The Garden".

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Jester: LOL! I love your list. I would make a couple of revisions. I would change 2) to lack of giving, but in reality there is a lot that can be done to reach people even with a lack of money, but if people don't have a giving heart, forget it.

    Also, right after "too much open-mindedness" I would add "too much close-mindedness" which is partly why some churches will only do hymns from hundreds of years ago. In order to make room for that one, the church can keep the hymns. I went to a church for a while that always started worship with an old hymn and every song afterward was a mix of more modern songs.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet wrote: "Apostles merely means "one who is sent" or "ambassador". Who are our apostles today? We call them "missionaries"."

    Yes, this is how I understand this, also.

    Although, some think of the miraculous gifts the first Apostles/second had when they hear apostles.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet wrote: "Yes, since they were called bishops, I just figured he was talking about bishops. Otherwise the word "elder" would have been used."

    In Acts 20 Paul calls the elders of the church at Ephesus to him. Paul then charges them to "take heed to yourselves and all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Paul continues to say the same elders "To shepherd the church".

    Also in 1 Peter, he writes; "The elders who are among you I exhort...Shepherd the flock...serving as overseers.

    All three greek words are used to describe the eldership. I do not see any distinction in the NT between an elder, bishop or shepherd.

    Titus uses the term bishop as meant for overseer seems to continue the teachings of elders being overseers and shepherds.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    jester,
    I like your list. LOL. The first one says it all though. What is the figures on how many Christians are proactively witnessing? Probably around 1%? God didn't tell us to make wonderfully engaging programs that make Christianity more "fun", so that people will want to come to our church. God told us to go to the world and make disciples. You want a fun church? Fast and pray and ask God to have a move in your church that will leave the world in awe of His glory! Then people will want to stay. Unfortunately, the church is dead. It's stagnant. It's lost it's savor.

    Getting rid of hymns wouldn't hurt either. LOL. Just kidding.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    heres my list of 10 stupid things that keep churches from growing

    1. lack of witnessing
    2. lack of money
    3. lack of intelligence
    4. lack of spirituality
    5. lack of love
    6. too much gossip
    7. too much open-mindedness
    8. too much back-biting
    9. not enough unity
    10. hymns

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    To expound on the subject of apostles. Apostles merely means "one who is sent" or "ambassador". Who are our apostles today? We call them "missionaries". I know that will get the RCC in an uproar. They think that apostles hold some highly esteemed position as being special. No, they are just one of the five tools that God uses. In a way, they are special though, in that they are the ones entrusted to bring the Gospel to those who have not yet heard, and to establish churches in those places. And, true, they were the first to be utilized. But that's a no-brainer. Of course they were first (actually, second. prophets were around before apostles, but that's not the point). Apostles were the ones that Jesus sent to the unsaved and to foreign countries. And since there were no churches in those countries at the time, there could be no preacher, teacher, or evangelists....could there.
    Apostles are no more revered than pastors or evangelists. Take away one of the five-fold ministries and you're left with an incomplete church.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Forgiven,
    "I do not like to assume, but am I to assume you see Titus as referring to bishops not elders?"

    Yes, since they were called bishops, I just figured he was talking about bishops. Otherwise the word "elder" would have been used.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    weekend,
    "Care to share the names of any modern-day Apostles, Prophet? I'd like to see the Scriptural reference where they got their "training."

    Thanks in advance for the biblical names."

    They get their training from the same place that pastors, prophets, evangelists and teachers get their training. From the church and from fellow apostles. Since there is no scriptural reference as to where any of these ministries received their training, we can only surmise.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    FSNL,
    Forgive me, but I am not sure what you trying to say...are you expounding on a thought that came to you or are you suggesting I have believed a lie?

    My comment was to the necessity of fellowship on both the smaller and larger scope, both having emense benefits.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet,
    I do not like to assume, but am I to assume you see Titus as referring to bishops not elders?

    Acts 20 Paul calls the Ephesian elders to him and refers to them as overseers and tells them to sheperd.

    As I read Acts, on the day of Pentecost 3000 new believers (and those being added day by day after that) were in need of teaching and training before they could adaquately go back to home lands and estsablish churches. These folks not only were in need of training and teaching, but they were in need of food, clothing and shelter. Although, they were meeting from house to house, they were also meeting in the temple, a much larger setting to accomandate more believers together in one place. Both a vital necessity for the building up of the body.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hello weekender
    Concerning the Ephesian 4 ministries (apostles, prophets etc..) as a pattern for church growth and planting try the organization New Frontiers International based in England but involved in churches across the world, here's the home page see what you think of the leadership part...

    http://www.newfrontiers.xtn.org/

    BW

    Steve

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:58 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    saltnlight: You are a very fortunate man.

    No, I am a very fortunate woman.

  • Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:10 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Reading through all ths "advice" seems so out of place for our congregation, and I think I understand why. The first paragraphs attach the author to a megachurch of 10,000 members. I belong to a "meager-church" of 600-700 souls. We haven't changed location (and are in the middle of nowhere), offer everything we can with what little we got, and, oh yes, preach the same message of forgiveness and peace in Christ for what seems like generations.
    Smyrna deja vu.

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Care to share the names of any modern-day Apostles, Prophet? I'd like to see the Scriptural reference where they got their "training."

    Thanks in advance for the biblical names.

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    There are apostles even today.

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:36 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    forsaltnlight: Agreed. No scriptures after the book of Revelation, but not all Apostles wrote scripture and I think Luke is the only writer of the NT who was not an apostle. But, Luke wrote more like a historian.

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    1) 1 Peter 5:1-2
    To the elders among you, (then calls himself a fellow Elder) .... be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care serving as overseers.

    2) forsaltnlight: you said "Apostles were appointed by Jesus while on earth. All were appointed, with the exception of the Apostle Paul, before His ascension."
    Barnabas, Junias, Andronicus are all called apostles. A less direct reference is that both Thessalonians starts off as coming from Paul, Silvanus(Silas), and Timothy. everything is we, we, we 2 Thessalonians 2:6 "6nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, even though as apostles of Christ WE might have asserted our authority.

    So, clearly not all apostles, except Paul, were appointed before the ascension of Jesus

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    salt,
    I hear that. I, too, believe that that day is not too far off.

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:13 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    In Titus I see no reference to elders.
    Same with Ephesians.

    From what I've gleaned from a number of different sources, the first century church didn't meet in a church building like we do today. They met in homes. Each "house church" had a pastor and elders. The pastor ministered the Word, and the elders also helped in that as well as helping with the adminstrative duties. Each city had a bishop that oversaw all the "house churches" who had the responsibility of maintaining the purity of the Scriptures in those "house churches".

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hi fsnl,
    Snuck right in there. ;-)

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Well, Paul calls for the Ephesians elders and then calls them overseers and then tells them to shepherd in Acts.

    Paul then refers to elders as overseers in Titus.

    In 1 Peter, Peter refers to the elders as Shepherds and overseers.

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:50 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    " episkopos" is the greek word for bishop.
    No, pastor, elder, and bishop are different offices. But I would like to know how you come to the conclusion that they are the same.

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet wrote: "Pastor "poimen" shepherd, pastor

    Elder "presbuteros" the order of elders, or presbytery. Taken from "presbeuo" a representative, an ambassador."

    Also, episkopos meaning overseer.

    Aren't these terms all basically referring to the same ministry/office?

  • Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Forgiven,
    You said "Wouldn't the reference to pastor be elder?"

    Pastor "poimen" shepherd, pastor

    Elder "presbuteros" the order of elders, or presbytery. Taken from "presbeuo" a representative, an ambassador.

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