Millions of Christians Pray to Become One

believer »

Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

salt, Amen to that, as have I, but to be honest I'm glad to be a Southern Baptist and a member of a solid Bible-believing, teaching, and living Great Commission fully autonomous local Southern Baptist church.

believer »

Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:20 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

salts, if you mean some Baptists are the problem then needless to say that problem crosses all denominational lines!:)

aaron.e »

Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:20 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

Isn't it amazing how the Bible, having been written so long ago, written by such a large assortment of people so far removed from this time and culture, describes the personalities and even the words of those who would oppose the Gospel today? God's Word contains descriptions of exactly what the enemies of God are saying and behaving like. What timelessness! A testimony to God's wisdom and eternality.

Online4Him »

Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:52 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

johnzon,

Most do not realize the larger prophetic picture . . . there are a few more things that are still awaiting fulfillment before Christ returns . . . because they do not understand this; they begin to speak as you just did:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men (2Peter 3:3-5).

johnzon »

Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:55 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

Cameron

<<the coming of Jesus Christ in very near future.>>

LOL, How many centuries has that claim been made, "very soon"".. It will always be "very soon". Reminds me of a sign in the local pub in my neighborhood- "free beer tomorrow".

Cameron »

Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

God wants to see whole of Mankind united as a single family of Adam under One-God. If different denominations among Christians are working hard to become one, it shall be one by the end of this world [Amen].

I do not want to stop there. The sky is the limit. Jesus Christ (Easau / Easa / Messiah) would like all humans to become one in their reverence to God. Then what stops Christians to visit synagogues, Mosques and others to unite under One-God.

I believe in lovely struggle, no matter how far it takes, who so ever is left behind he / she would be blessed by the coming of Jesus Christ in very near future. We shall do our work and let the Lord fulfil where we left [Amen].

Prophet »

Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:08 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

"Prophet, trust the Catholic Church."

LOL. "Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated."

Wilderness1 »

Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Tallguy1000 said, "Prophet, trust the Catholic Church."

However, the word of God would say:

"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him" (Pr 30:5).

"Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before him: God is a refuge for us" (Ps 62:8).

Daniel Paul »

Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:58 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

"For us it is the Church, and for you it is YOU."

Actually, for me it is simply reading what is there. People try to make the Bible say all kinds of things instead of just reading the words for what they are.

aritonang »

Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:30 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Hi guys,

Just dropping by to greet you all.
God bless you and your family.

In Jesus Christ always,
Aritonang

aaron.e »

Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:55 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Chris:
"What determines apostacy? Sola Scriptura or the infalliblity of the pope?" Although I don't really understand your question, here's what the Bible says about the determination for anathema:

Galatians 1:8, 9 - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

1 Corinthians 16:22 - "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha."

I'd say that Pauline theology is clear on anathema: Since, in the letter to the Corinthians, Paul was writing to a group of believers who were, at best, backsliding, it is logical to conclude that only those who have already been born again can be anathema. Therefore, when you called me 'anathema' (which by your own admission you found it a fun thing to do), you missed the mark (i.e.: hamartano), as I've never been a Romanist. According to one Romanist source,

"The current Catechism does not mention anathema, it only references Trent. Nowhere in its text does it use the word "anathema". This anathema issue was put to bed by 1983 Canon law. The anathemas per se do not apply today, since the 1983 Code of Canon Law (CIC) abolished the canonical penalty of anathema, which was a form of excommunication." (Source: http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/anathemas.htm)

So first of all, I cannot even be considered anathema, and secondly, your masters don't appear to even use the penalty anymore (Which too raises and eyebrow, because isn't it in the Bible?)

steiner »

Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:06 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Roman Catholic Bishop wants everyone to call god, allah...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293394,00.html

"Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? ... What does God care what we call him? It is our problem," Muskens told Dutch television.

Ah, the unity that the RCC is pushing our way!...there is no difference? Well, since Roman Catholic dogma is not Christian, then perhaps the god of the RCC is the same god as that of the islamists...

The time is at hand when we shall see the RCC find common ground with islamists, and readily support their cause as they support its cause.

aaron.e »

Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:55 am Agree: 8   Disagree: 0

Acts 17:11 - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Did they have the magisterium there to interpret the Scriptures for them?

2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Why would Paul tell us to study if we could not interpret?

John 5:39 - Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Jesus instructed the Jews to search the Scriptures. Without the "authority" there to give them "proper interpretation", how could Jesus expect them to come to the truth?

Now in light of some of these things, what does the Bible teach about interpretation?

John 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 Corinthians 2:12, 13 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 John 2:26, 27 - These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.


How I love thy Word, O Lord! Amen!

DelightntheLord »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:16 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

"Yes, we are obligated to read scripture"

How much does one LEARN through "obligation"s to reading Scripture?

Tallguy, have you no love for the Truth?

"and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the LOVE of the TRUTH, that they might be saved."


"therefore I'll leave the intrepretation of Scripture to the people..."

Wow, misplaced trust; you need some faith there! Catholism doesn't seem like a religion that would go over big with Engineers....don't you guys check your work, percisely?
Why would you risk your Eternal soul to "other people"?

This Catholism you speak about looks like a lazy, uncaring man's religion.

believer »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

chris, I would love to hear some of the extrabiblical teachings of Southern Baptists which supersede, violate, or contradict the Word of God as opposed to many of the catholic church which do just that?

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

And apparently that's all the Catholics do. Is interpret it. A true Christian discovers what it means according to the Holy Spirit (not to be confused with the "Holy Church"). So interpret away. That is why so many of their teachings are so far removed from the Scriptures.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

But you are also correct. Catholics can interpret the Scriptures. And that's about it. God gave Christians the ability to KNOW what the Bible means. No interpretation, simply truth.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

And still the Catholic's teachings are anti-scriptural.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

According to Timothy I have the right to interpret and dissect the Bible to know it's truths.

Online4Him »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

msn,

Can we stick to one topic at a time . . . ? You speak about apostasy but then do not comment when others respond. I also wonder how long you tend to discuss these issues . . . you tend to disappear when we enter into deep waters . . .

Tallguy1000 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:53 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prophet
And I stick to my God given authority to know the Bible.

Amen again! Yes, you have the God given authority (and obligation) to know the bible, but you DO NOT have the authority from God to intrepret the bible. That authority was given to the Holy Catholic Church.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

And yet, much of what the Catholic Church teaches goes against what even Peter taught. Now, there's some "infallible" doctrine that I want to follow.

Tallguy1000 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Prophet ---

More like, When a Catholic is asked they say "The Pope says...." or "the Church says...."

And when a Protestant is asked, they say "The Word of God says..."

Amen Prophet, now you're getting the idea, that's wonderful! That's exactly how it works. A faithful Catholic will TRUST the Holy Catholic Churchs' accurate intrepretation of God's word. For me, I can trust it, because Jesus gave that authority to His Church. "Peter, feed my sheep". Yes, we are obligated to read scripture daily, but we trust the Churches intrepretation. I work in electrical engineering, therefore I'll leave the intrepretation of Scripture to the people who have studied it for 2000 years. I'll trust them to do their job, and I'm sure they would trust me to do a professional design on their power distribution system for a new monastary.

With you and your "kin", you try to tell me "This is what the word of God says". But it's really more like your personal little spin on what the word of God says. Prophet, trust the Catholic Church. It has been around for 2000 years like Jesus promised it would. Hell will not prevail against it, NOT even with YOUR help!

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

And I stick to my God given authority to know the Bible. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Paul wasn't talking to the Catholic church there. He wasn't talking to a Pope or an apostle. He was talking to Christians. The phrase "rightly dividing" means to understand and interpret the Bible.

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Catholics love reading the bible and most of the bible doesn't need interpreting since much is very plain to any reader, but there are tough areas and in those areas a Catholic would refer back to the official teaching of the church on that scripture. A protestant, since there is no official Church spokesperson, council or synod and everyone is free to think there own way, will interpret the scripture based on personal experience for the most part. This is not to say there are not some very erudite Protestant scholars, who would take it much further.

I generally never have an issue over interpretation with scholars from Protestant backgrounds. They tend to be very reasonable, logical and rational. We may disagree with each other, but we can both see why each other understands scripture differently.

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Prophet and Online,

To bad when Scripture says,"Thus saith the Lord", you throw your own personal spin on to what that means on just that verse. A Catholic, unlike ala Carte Christians like you two, would take all of scripture into account, we would take the context, the language and the setting all into account to understand that verse with respect to all of scripture instead of taking a line out of context.

Again, our basic differences comes down to who has authority to interpret God's word. We Catholics will stick to the God given authority given specifically by Jesus to His ordained Apostles and to their Bishops, while you go by your own self given authority.

Without the Sacred Tradition that the Apostles handed down to us from God, when you look at scripture it is through blurred lenses. When you look to Sacred Tradition and historical witness of the Church for 2000 years, you gain a clear picture of what that scripture really meant at the time it was said and then written.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

And, again, Catholic parishioners do not need a Bible. The Pope interprets the Bible for them, and so they do not need to read it.
As pointed out, the scriptures are not open to personal interpretations...regardless of how deep or trivial the scriptures. It's not open for interpretation.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

More like,
When a Catholic is asked they say "The Pope says...." or "the Church says...."

And when a Protestant is asked, they say "The Word of God says..."

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:22 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

Believer,

Southern Baptists are an American religion and not much else. SBC comes from a division of a break up of a break up of a division times 10 to the 23rd since the Anabaptist movement away from the reformers.

The Catholic church is the most multi-cultural church period. We have every race and every tongue in our church.

My point was that Catholics and Protestants have bad things in our history, but the one thing we have in common is Jesus and His Word. Trust me, I think Baptists are just as whacked as you think Catholics are. I think Baptists are so extra biblical and have beliefs that are contrary to the Bible through our interpretation, but I still would count you as a Christian because of your basic beliefs.

Whenever I am at pro-life rallies, I am always surrounded mostly by Catholics but baptists and pentecostals are there too which is great.

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

It is better to say:

When asked a Theological Question a Catholic would say, "the Official Church teaching is this on what God's word says".

When asked a Theological question a Protestant would say," I interpret God's word this way."

The key difference is not the Word, but who has the authority to interpret it. For us it is the Church, and for you it is YOU.

believer »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:15 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

chris, plus don't you find it interesting that us prejudiced Southern Baptists elected Johnnny Hunt to be our President who is clearly part Native American and that we have many ethnic churches based on both color and nationality. So unlike the catholic church we tend to learn from our mistakes. Oh, by the way before you give people the idea catholics don't have color problems, in the 3rd grade our school burnt down and the next year a number of us had to attend a catholic school in a very Afro-American neighborhood and several students parents sent them to a public school since they did not want their children attending school in that type of neighborhood and then in the 8th grade a black 1st grader had to eat lunch with the nuns because several of the white parents did not want him eating lunch with their children and please remember this was in Rochester NY and not down South somewhere.

believer »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:05 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

chris, your ignorance of what Southern Baptists believe and their relationship with the early church reformers continues to amaze me. Plus, my "little tirade" has nothing to do with me being a Baptist, but rather with what I was taught while in the catholic church.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:34 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Christians would be content with that.
Catholics? It doesn't appear that way. They apparently need the Pope to tell them.

Online4Him »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:28 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

Prophet,

Amen to your last post . . . you would think that Christians would be content with a (thus saith the Lord) . . .

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:22 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Ask a Catholic a theological question. Their answer? "The Pope says...." or "The Church says....."

Ask a Protestant a theological question. Their answer?
"The Bible says...." or "God says....."

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The teachings of the Catholic church is in opposition to what Peter preached, therefore Peter could not be the "founder" of Catholicism. Otherwise, Catholics are apostate.

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

The Apostle's creed may be how Catholics can tell another Catholic. But the way God can tell a Christian is this way
"If you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

Prophet »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:18 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

Chris
"If you are interested, the main way for telling if someone was a Christian or not was whether or not their Church affirmed the Apostles Creed."

Is that in the book of Acts...or the book of Opinions. I can't find that scripture anywhere.

aaron.e »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Here we go again... Let me tell you something: myself and most of the men and women on here have supplied you with all of the Scriptural verification you could want. You're either blind, or willfully ignorant. And I'm bored of your snorting and stomping. Have a nice evening.

Online4Him »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:10 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

msn, (What determines apostasy? Sola Scriptura or the infallibility of the pope?)

It would be the latter . . . when Rome fell (A.D. 476), the politico/ecclesiastical kingdom known as the papacy burst into full power obscuring the gospel and elevating itself above all that is called God. The fact that this power viciously persecuted the cause of Christ is a matter of historical record, fulfilling the prophecies of Daniel, Paul and John.

aaron.e »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:09 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

Apostolic succession is a MYTH. It is unnecessary and found no where in the Bible. And don't bother with the Matthias replacing Judas line... When you start making comments like "Baptists have only been around a short time" try and remember that you are referring to the body of Christ. "Baptist" has no bearing on it since the body transcends denomination. You must try and get your head of the box labeled "church building." There have always been Christians, my friend. The body of Christ is a real, organic and historic entity. Where the head goes, the body follows. We, His body, have nothing to do with the RCC. You may not believe this now, but you will know without absolute certainty one day soon.

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:01 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

That was a fun one aaron. I do remember that. I also remember that you are always open to causing a tiff, yet never really interested in comparing scripture verses to see if our understanding of the scriptures are reasonable. You also tend not to defend your beliefs via scripture which seems a bit odd. Remember, the vast majority of non-Catholic churches hold many of our beliefs including yours' im sure.

I would be happy to discuss what the official teaching of our church is, compared to your interpretation of a misconstrued understanding.

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Believer,

Sold any slaves lately??? Baptists have only been around a short time and I can't think of a more color based predjudice than baptists. While it is easy to come up with these bad things, I can also come up with a lot of good things too.

I can say baptist are God fearing people, that they love the Word of God, that they love Jesus and they believed Jesus died for their sins. All good stuff. Since your denomination came many years after the apostles and had no connection to them, it is not surprising that you have little in common with churches founded by the Apostles.

You little rant is easy to dispel, and if you are really interested then let me know. If you were just trying to be belligerant, then you'll let me know too.

aaron.e »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

"Also, could you show me how believing that we are saved by faith ALONE or going by the bible alone is not an apostate belief since none of these beliefs are in the Bible." HA! Yawn...

No.

I've done this way too many times with you. Figure it out for yourself.

aaron.e »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

Chris:

This reminds me of the time you called me anathema because of the my rejection of the RCC. Man do I wish I still had a copy of that message (I've had to re-create my profile since those days though.) I still find this funny, since I've never been a Romanist.

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Sorry believer, you are wrong. That is not what the scripture says. You added a lot of your own PERSONAL INTERPRETATION to that line of scripture.

Yes, we should be illuminated by the Word of God and read it and love it. We should also know that the gift of the Spirit of Truth was not given to everyone, it was given to specific men. Just like God did not call all to be Apostles, but called specific men to be shepherds of His Church.

Baptists like you have a real problem, since you reject most everything from Reformation Protestants. In fact, Reformed, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Anglicans and many more hunted your types down and hung many of you.

With each generation, the Truth that God gave to his church has been watered down by those who did not receive the Spirit of Truth.

Don't you find it odd, Believer that the Orthodox, Catholics, and Oriental Churches are so close with everything they believe and yet the newer the church is the less in common they are? Thesee churches were all founded by Apostles and their direct disciples and yet yours' was not and came so late.

believer »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:42 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

chris, where shall we start, Mary worship, the selling of indulgences, purgatory, works salvation, mortal and venial sins, mandatory celibacy, take your pick! And there is more where those came from.

believer »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:39 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

chris, yes, the printing press only cost Wycliffe his life, plus I should have added that even though some have a better grasp in understanding the Word of God, there is no where in the Bible God gives them permission to have authority over those that don't.

msnchris70 »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

Aaron,

What determines apostacy? Sola Scriptura or the infalliblity of the pope?

Apostacy means a total turning away from the faith. Could you show me how any Catholic belief is contrary to the word of God?

Also, could you show me how believing that we are saved by faith ALONE or going by the bible alone is not an apostate belief since none of these beliefs are in the Bible.

Thanks.

believer »

Tue Jan 20, 2009 5:36 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

chris, don't you find it interesting with all this catholic rhetoric your spewing that II Timothy 3:16-17 does not say under the direction of a church leader but rather says that the Word of God is for every believer to use as a guide for living. And don't you find it interesting that the same Holy Spirit who indwells every believer the moment they are saved is also responsible for illumining God's Word in the heart and mind of every individual believer and no where does it say He'll direct believers to a priest, bishop, or pope to teach them what the Word of God says. And while there are a great number of men and women that God has gifted with an ability to understand and interpret the Scriptures better than others, God still expects every believer to be examining and understanding the Scriptures for themselves and makes these others available to them for understanding some of the more difficult passages of the Bible, but yet by His Holy Spirit gives believers the ability to discern when they are being misled as He gave to the Reformers so they could see that they were being misled by the catholic church.