Saturday, November 07, 2009 Last Update:07:14 pm ET

World|Tue, Feb. 10 2009 12:55 PM EST

Orthodox Anglicans Don't Expect Unity for Long

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

Days after Anglican leaders came out of a global meeting pleased with the respect and graciousness that were exchanged despite ongoing internal conflicts, one prominent conservative bishop demanded that the "bitter truth" be acknowledged – that their differences are irreconcilable.

In an open letter addressed to Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Rowan Williams, who is considered the spiritual leader of the Anglican Communion, Nigerian Archbishop Peter J. Akinola expressed his discontentment with the churches in North America and their continued pro-gay actions.

"It now seems increasingly clear that without a radical change of behavior on the part of The Episcopal Church and the Anglican Church of Canada the only possible outcome of such a process is acknowledgment of a bitter truth that the differences in the words of Archbishop Idris Jones are 'irreconcilable,'" Akinola wrote in the letter, released Tuesday.

During a Feb. 1-5 meeting in Alexandria, Egypt, Anglican leaders agreed to maintain a moratorium on the ordination of openly gay bishops and the blessing of same-sex unions as they try to move forward to mend their rifts and re-establish mutual trust.

Some Anglicans in North America, however, have taken steps to start blessing same-sex unions, Akinola noted. The Diocese of Virginia adopted an amendment, days before the Anglican meeting, affirming "the inherent integrity and blessedness of committed Christian relationships between two adult persons."

Also, the Diocese of Toronto put forward a proposal last week to allow some parishes to offer blessings – although not the nuptial blessing – to same-sex couples.

"I have learned that even as we met together in Alexandria actions were taken that were in direct contradiction to the season of deeper communion and gracious restraint to which we all expressed agreement," wrote Akinola, who attached documents that outline the "heresies" of The Episcopal Church – the U.S. arm of Anglicanism – and the Anglican Church of Canada and how they are both "destroying the foundations of Anglican Christianity."

"I know that you are grieved by the continuing brokenness of our Communion," Akinola wrote to Williams, "but I believe that healing will only come when we face into the true reality of our situation."

At their most recent meeting, Anglican bishops who lead the Communion's national churches had discussed much of the conflicts and theological debates that have been fracturing the global body.

Controversy in the 77 million-member Anglican Communion had heightened when The Episcopal Church consecrated the first openly gay bishop, V. Gene Robinson, in 2003.

Many described the tone of the latest meeting as calm and respectful, unlike previous meetings, and they acknowledged the brokenness of the Communion and the complexity of the situation.

Although the bishops were able to achieve a spirit of grace and love and take steps to try to restore unity, some have come to the conclusion that in the long term, the Anglican Communion cannot stay together.

"It is divided because we don't agree," the Most Rev. Gregory Venables of the conservative Southern Cone told VirtueOnline, a conservative online publication. "We found ways to set up to see if we can talk to one another. We found theological definitions about why we don't agree. We might be able to have meetings in the future but we will always disagree. There is no denial that we are not in communion."

He added, "We were all agreed. There are two very different understandings of the Christian Faith now living together, indeed at war with one another in the Anglican Communion and the situation has no long term resolution. It would take a miracle to keep it together and Dr. Rowan Williams understands that. He will try and keep it together for as long as he can under his watch."

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  • Fri May 08, 2009 12:47 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Cheisa,

    I learn something every day! Thanks for the history lesson. It is simply fascinating that such a major division of culture and belief systems, which has caused so much death and destruction, hinges so heavily on the grammar of a dead language.

  • Wed May 06, 2009 1:36 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Looks like the mad flagger has returned. LOL

  • Wed May 06, 2009 12:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show To all those who want to debate denominations, I'd recommend that Christian Post just make a blog so those who want to argue ad infinitum can get their daily exercise. To get back on the topic of this article, my wish is that someone with authority in Anglicanism can strip those who do not follow the tenets of the faith with any claim to be called Anglicans. Clearly, they are not. My prayer is that we can all have a repentence of our hearts, see the error of our ways and start working for unity within the body of Christ, not further disintegration. hide

  • Wed May 06, 2009 11:41 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "I love these Conservative orthodox Anglicans who will not accept homosexual marriage, active homosexual priests and Bishops, and Women as Priests, deacons and bishops. These Bible loving Anglicans will come home, I pray." I pray with you that they get out of the Anglican Church once and for all. They are not nor have they ever been Anglicans. Of course there a many more active homosexual priests in the RC Church as recent news will attest to, but I think hypocrites should stick together. hide

  • Wed May 06, 2009 9:47 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    About Aramaic. The truth is not that Jesus spoke Aramaic, though He may have, but that the first written accounts of the Gospels were written in Aramaic. They were later translated into Greek and Latin and that is at the heart of the Kepha matter.

    Critics of St Peter's legitimacy as the annointed head of Christ's Church point to grammar to "prove" he was a little rock, not the Rock. That grammatical "proof", though, only exists in Greek, not in the original Aramaic which makes no distinction between Rock and Rock. In fact, the Greek stone vs Rock argument is invalid because the Greeks didn't have that grammatical differentiation at the time of translation. That change occured two centuries later.

    Besides, a straightforward reading of the passage, in total, in context, only makes grammatical and logical sense when Christ refers to Peter as the Rock upon which He will build His Church. It is a convoluted, twisted, overly fanciful interpretation of the passage that let those words say anything other than what is written. Peter is the Rock. This new wave christianity can't change the Word as it is written.

  • Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet wrote: "Then why do they continue to blantantly speak lies that He did?"

    Got me? Apparantly, a few Aramaic words/sayings were used by the Hebrews. Not that we every do the same. Ciao.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Forgiven, "Prophet wrote: "Can anyone please prove to me that Jesus spoke Aramaic instead of Hebrew." Nope." Then why do they continue to blantantly speak lies that He did? hide

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:16 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show feet, " There is no institution in the history of the world that has had the same form for 2000 years, let alone more than 400 years." Buddhism. But you already knew that, didn't you? And like Catholicism, both are false religions. Longevity doesn't mean that it's right. hide

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show History has even proven that the popes were indeed fallible in their interpretation of the Scriptures. hide

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:04 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    The is no question today even by some of the most erudite Protestant scholars that it is Kepha or Peter who is the Rock, not what Peter said. It is Peter who Jesus will build his church on.

    There is no institution in the history of the world that has had the same form for 2000 years, let alone more than 400 years. The Catholic Church's longevity proves the protection of God on this institution. Not because every Catholic is a saint, which is certainly not true, but because it is Christ himself that promised His protection from the Father through the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    The Catholic Church foundation is Christ who supports His own personal Prime Minster who is the Rock the Bishop of Rome.


    antiquity has never been a test for the truth. having read gonzalez's book i have a much greater appreciation for the catholic church, its history, in spite of all its failings. my understanding is that the gospel of jesus christ will be revealed, regardless of what the catholic church chooses to do or not do. it is my hope that the catholic church will see what the holy spirit is doing and chose to surrender to it along with their fellow believers.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Feetxxx,

    "Kepha, Cephas or Peter all means Rock. His original name was Simon. So, Jesus changed his name to Kepha. He only changed a few other people's name like Abram to Abraham and Simon to Peter. The name change is HUGELY SIGNIFICANT, because it relates directly to their new mission in life. Kepha meaning rock.

    Jesus first acknowledges that only Peter(Kepha) was right and that God the Father personally revealed this to Peter and not from man. This shows that Peter will receive revelation from Heaven above and beyond anyone else like; circumcission, eating kosher and non-kosher food, and bringing in the gentiles to the faith, etc. Peter receives the revelation."





    anyone can believe whatever he chooses without recrimination. the evidence you are offering is that you know the thoughts and mind of god. that understanding comes against scripture.





    Peter is always the spokesman for the Apostles, Peter does the most miracles after Jesus, Peter is mentioned 192 times in the New Testament and most importantly is the KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Since you sound like most fundamentalists who never read the Old Testament, why don't you read IS 22 for me.

    What you will find is that in Is 22, the Tradition of the Keys is mentioned and the power to bind and loose is also mentioned. In hebrew tradition the person who is given the keys is given these keys alone, they are the prime minister and they have the final authority for the King. Jesus, knowing the significance of the Keys, gives them to Shimon Kepha or Simon Peter.

    Simon Peter or Shimon Kepha is the holder of the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven alone and this, like in Is 22, is a dynastic "Office" that lasts forever and is past down to the next Prime Minister.








    peter appears to be the leader of the apostles in some instances such as at pentacost. this leadership does not appear to be infallible, not does it appear that paul's anointing was any less. in fact at one point peter's leading was so flawed that it required the rebuking of paul. because of its apparent need one would think that the catholic church would not attempt to exalt itself above other believing bodies.

    there is no clear understanding of the pronouns" you". all the apostles as well as disciples are credited with acts of evangelism.

    isaiah22 is non specific with multiple metaphors.

    but what i find appalling is that the catholic church would consciously embrace an understanding that supports even a shred of division. i dont see how this understanding complements fully embracing the new covenant of christ.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Prophet wrote: "Can anyone please prove to me that Jesus spoke Aramaic instead of Hebrew."

    Nope.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:50 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    And for 2000 years the Catholic church has been practicing twisting and perverting the Scriptures. I praise God that He drew true Christians out of that cult before it took over the world. So now we have a voice of Truth that has been redeemed from that heresy, and the Catholic Church doesn't like it when the Truth is told. They try to silence it by calling them apostate and that they aren't saved. Much like the pharisees of the New Testament treated Jesus and His disciples.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Peter wasn't the Pope in Rome.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Can anyone please prove to me that Jesus spoke Aramaic instead of Hebrew.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    The is no question today even by some of the most erudite Protestant scholars that it is Kepha or Peter who is the Rock, not what Peter said. It is Peter who Jesus will build his church on.

    There is no institution in the history of the world that has had the same form for 2000 years, let alone more than 400 years. The Catholic Church's longevity proves the protection of God on this institution. Not because every Catholic is a saint, which is certainly not true, but because it is Christ himself that promised His protection from the Father through the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    The Catholic Church foundation is Christ who supports His own personal Prime Minster who is the Rock the Bishop of Rome.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:08 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    Feetxxx,

    Kepha, Cephas or Peter all means Rock. His original name was Simon. So, Jesus changed his name to Kepha. He only changed a few other people's name like Abram to Abraham and Simon to Peter. The name change is HUGELY SIGNIFICANT, because it relates directly to their new mission in life. Kepha meaning rock.

    Jesus first acknowledges that only Peter(Kepha) was right and that God the Father personally revealed this to Peter and not from man. This shows that Peter will receive revelation from Heaven above and beyond anyone else like; circumcission, eating kosher and non-kosher food, and bringing in the gentiles to the faith, etc. Peter receives the revelation.

    Peter is always the spokesman for the Apostles, Peter does the most miracles after Jesus, Peter is mentioned 192 times in the New Testament and most importantly is the KEYS OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Since you sound like most fundamentalists who never read the Old Testament, why don't you read IS 22 for me.

    What you will find is that in Is 22, the Tradition of the Keys is mentioned and the power to bind and loose is also mentioned. In hebrew tradition the person who is given the keys is given these keys alone, they are the prime minister and they have the final authority for the King. Jesus, knowing the significance of the Keys, gives them to Shimon Kepha or Simon Peter.

    Simon Peter or Shimon Kepha is the holder of the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven alone and this, like in Is 22, is a dynastic "Office" that lasts forever and is past down to the next Prime Minister.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Feetxxx,

    Stop using a blackberry or handheld device to write on this forum. Your grammar is attrocious.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Yes, homosexual activity is mortal sin. If unrepented, you will go to hell. hide

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:01 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    "No one ever came to non-Catholic Christianity claiming their denomination has the "Fullness of Truth". Only the Catholic Church claims this position, because having been founded by Christ on the Apostles it is a legitimate position."

    Actually, that's a lie. Catholicism is full of lies and false doctrines.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    according to wikipedia

    The levels of the Magisterium

    1. Pope ex cathedra Extraordinary (and universal) Infallible Full Assent of Faith
    2. Bishops, in union with Pope, defining doctrine at General Council Extraordinary (and universal teaching of the Church) Infallible Full Assent of Faith
    3. Bishops proposing definitively, dispersed, but in unison, in union with Pope Ordinary and universal teaching of the Church Infallible Full Assent of Faith
    4. Pope Ordinary Non-infallible Religious submission of intellect and will
    5. Bishops Ordinary Non-infallible Religious submission of intellect and will

    my understanding is that the teaching about homosexuality being a sin is INFALLIBLE.

    this was affirmed by father joe healy................check it out yourself. he answers all submitted questions



    http://fatherjoe.wordpress.com/instructions/catechesis/instructions/3-the-magisterium/

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    msnchris70

    i was asking about the scripture. i made no comment. why do you feel compelled to credit me with words i have not written. consider challenging the words i have written! like commentiing about huus or my 1:20 pm comment.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:20 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Tallguy1000

    That's an easy one Wilderness, just read Matt Ch 16 where Jesus tells Peter that He will build His Church on him. Jesus gives authority to one (1) man and tells him that He will pray for him, tells him "go feed my sheep", tells him that he has the authoity to bind or loose. Peter is always mentioned first in the Gospels ... Peter and the other, Peter and the deciples... he spoke from Peter's boat ( a type of Catholic Church


    consider:


    15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

    16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God."

    17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter,[c] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[d] will not overcome it.[e] 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[f] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[g] loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

    how can you credit building the church to peter when what peter spoke was not of peter but by the father thru the holy spirit. do we credit the things that we do as the things that last, or the things that christ does thru us thru grace? it was what what the spirit did thru peter that lays up things that last. thing, that was expressed thru peter. ........................................"You are the Christ,[b] the Son of the living God.".......... on this rock I will build my church.

    Matthew 7:24
    [ The Wise and Foolish Builders ] "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the ROCK..

    jesus says THE rock not a rock


    Matthew 7:25
    The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the ROCK.

    again the same

    the pronoun" you" can be can be understood to be plural and to be referring to all the disciples which was to whom he was speaking.as in:

    matt18:1 1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" ........................................................after answering them jesus in verse 15 talks about a brother who sins against another brother and then says........


    matt18: 18"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be[d]bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:09 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    mary and chris, that would kind of be like jumping from the frying pan into the fire, but the reality is they will probably do what other denominations in similar dilemmas have done, stay anglicans and simply add a name to their group to make them distinct from the present anglican church.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:07 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    msn,

    Counterfeit Church:

    Daniel 7:8-Rises out of Europe
    Acts 20:30-Draws away disciples after them.
    2Thessalonians 2:4-Usurps Gods authority.
    Revelation 13:7-Wars against the saints.
    Revelation 17:4-Arrayed in purple and scarlet colour.
    Revelation 17:18-Reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    Care to address these passages?

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    Feetxxx,

    You obviously don't understand that scripture, since St. Paul calls Himself a "Father" to Timothy and the first Christian martyr Stephen called the Jews his Fathers in the faith. Both Paul and Stephen used the word Fathers and even Abraham was called by GOD FATHER to his people.

    All of these people were under the inspiration of God when they called themselves or others Father. Just to prove my point even further, the scripture talks about not calling someone Rabbi either, and yet the word Rabbi means "Teacher". So none of your teachers should have been called teacher, your dad not called dad since that is the same word for Father and all the many Protestants who have the word Doctor in front of their name like Doctor James Kennedy, Dr. Charles Spurgeon and Dr. Billy Graham. The word Doctor means Teacher.

    The point I'm making is that from scripture you have not bothered to understand the context of Christ message, since if you did you would understand why st. paul and st. Stephen and James Dobson all call themselves Father or Teacher.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    Authoritative Church:
    Mat 28:18-20 Jesus delegates power to Apostles
    Jn 20:23 Jesus gives apostles power to forgive sins
    1 Cor 11:23-24 Power to offer teh sacrifice of the Eucharist
    Lk 10:16 power to speak with Christ's voice
    Mat 18:18 Power to legislate
    Mat 18:17 Power to discipline

    So, these Apostles handed down this power through Apostolic succession as evident when Mathias took the "Office of Ministry" for Judas. So, Mathias had all these powers over God's people. Much like Timothy who received his authority from Paul and so on and so on.

    The problem with Protestantism, is that their Pastors have no authority passed down from the Apostles.

    The Pope is only infallible in faith and morals and he only makes declarations once every 100 years or so. You act like the Pope is making prounouncements everyday, when in fact he is not.

    I have read Gonzales books 1 and 2 and enjoyed them very much, but unlike you I read both books and didn't take things out of context. He wrote these books very well and extremely objective in my opinion from a Protestant standpoint. There is bias in his writings, but very little that it is of no concern to any Catholic.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:41 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    that is interesting. i thought i had many fathers, my biological and heavenly father. but according to the scripture.......in christ we have only one.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Feetxxx,

    Your selective view of history is paramount! You couldn't find anything before the 1400's? How about all the English Catholic Martyrs who died under Henry the 8th. We are talking thousands! Or how about the thousands of Catholic martyrs who died under Martin Luther's leadership in northern Germany, or when John Calvin was responsible for the deaths of both Catholics and non-calvinists?????

    The common practice at that time was death for heresy. It happened on both sides.

    Also, don't forget that St. Paul and all the Apostles had authority given to them by Christ. The Catholic Church is the continuation of that authority. When you reject the Catholic Church, you actually reject Christ. He who hears you, hears me!

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    That's an easy one Wilderness, just read Matt Ch 16 where Jesus tells Peter that He will build His Church on him. Jesus gives authority to one (1) man and tells him that He will pray for him, tells him "go feed my sheep", tells him that he has the authoity to bind or loose. Peter is always mentioned first in the Gospels ... Peter and the other, Peter and the deciples... he spoke from Peter's boat ( a type of Catholic Church)...

    Wilderness, you've choosen some wonderful names for the Vicar of Christ. Keep it up my brother in Christ. We welcome you home...

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    natthew 23:7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

    8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.[b] 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

    was this what you were referring to?

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    mary101 said, "Maybe it's time to come home to the Catholic Church."

    Could you show us in scripture where the Christian home is a place led by one man preeminent called, "Our Holy Father, Most Blessed Father, or Your Holiness.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mary 101

    the catholic church has instituted the magisterium, to mandate a set of laws that believers are taught to live live under. this whole concept not only comes against pauls teaching in galations and romans, but because these laws are deemed to be unchallengable (infallable) they come against christ teachings " you will recognize them by their fruit." fruit being fruit of the spirit because things of him garner things that last, that is treasures in heaven.

    obviously..................this is not" you will recognize them if they live under our laws."

    and this also comes against 1 thess5:20" test everything keep the good." all testing in christ is thru witness of the spirit ("that which we have looked at, which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands have touched")

    how can there be freedom to test that which is deemed unchallengable.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:51 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Historical fact, the Christian martyrs were killed by Roman Pagans and by the Jews. They were not killed by the Church. The Church was persecuted as a whole.

    Non-Christian groups like the arians, montanists, donatists and many others were persecuted by the CHURCH for their denial of Christ divinity, or their denial of Christ humanity or their denial of the Trinity. Today those groups which have been reinvented are Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons.

    consider reading the " history of christianity " by gonzalez vol1 and 2.

    there was three hundred years of persecution of the church until constantine made christianity the state religion. it was during this time of theocracy that the papacy executed the martyrs..............example huus in the 1400's for speaking against the practice of indulgences. .see wikipedia.

    there have been persecutions by both sides .........................the spanish inquistion, a persecution conducted by the church on islamics and jews. the holocaust conducted by the people of a christian country. a country who was the first to have a bible printed in its own native language, whose national hero was martin luther who did the printing.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:46 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 5

    Flagged as inappropriate. show After reading this article, I am very saddened by the disunity of Christians and would like to welcome any Anglican into the Catholic Church who is unable to accept the new religion being formed within the Anglican Church. Remember that St. Thomas More and St. John Fisher could not accept the changes proposed by King henry VIII and had to be martyred for their faith. Usually, the enemy is within and that seems to be the case with this possible schism. Maybe it's time to come home to the Catholic Church. hide

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:40 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show msn, you said, (Only the Catholic Church claims this position, because having been founded by Christ on the Apostles it is a legitimate position) You have overlooked the fact that both the scriptures and history refute your claims. In fact the apostles accurately spoke of an apostate power that will lead the world astray . . . your religion clearly fits the bill. hide

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:33 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    What law feet? Are you saying that homosexuality is good and that you endorse women bishops or women in ministry?

    i am saying that having been tested thru the witness of the spirit both have been found to be of god.



    Christianity forefathers were under the law, but now the law is fulfilled in Christ. Christ said many things of what He wanted for His church and the people of God and the Holy Spirit inspired men to write under the protection of the Holy Spirit.

    fulfillment of the law is love. the summation of all the law under the new covenant is the 2nd commandment.




    Active homosexuality is an afront to God and women in ministry is not a part of God's plan. It wasn't then, and only churches that embrace this disorded form of feminism and other churches that embrace active homosexuals will be pruned as they already are experiencing.



    the essence of being attracted to the same sex is done in the same spirit as with the attraction between opposite sexes.............................mutual love, devotion, affection,trust, and respect for a shared committed life together. believing homosexual marriages are filled with the fruit of the spirit in the same way that believing heterosexual marriages are.

    female pastors and bishops are anointed with the holy spirit to lead and teach in the same way that male pastors or bishops are.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:07 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Feet,

    Could you also do us all a favor and write in complete sentences. Thanks.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Historical fact, the Christian martyrs were killed by Roman Pagans and by the Jews. They were not killed by the Church. The Church was persecuted as a whole.

    Non-Christian groups like the arians, montanists, donatists and many others were persecuted by the CHURCH for their denial of Christ divinity, or their denial of Christ humanity or their denial of the Trinity. Today those groups which have been reinvented are Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    What law feet? Are you saying that homosexuality is good and that you endorse women bishops or women in ministry?

    Christianity forefathers were under the law, but now the law is fulfilled in Christ. Christ said many things of what He wanted for His church and the people of God and the Holy Spirit inspired men to write under the protection of the Holy Spirit.

    Active homosexuality is an afront to God and women in ministry is not a part of God's plan. It wasn't then, and only churches that embrace this disorded form of feminism and other churches that embrace active homosexuals will be pruned as they already are experiencing.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:58 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    reedit

    for 2000 years the holy spirit has been gradually weaning christendom off the old covenant. historically all the executions of the martyrs bv the LEADERS OF THE church was THEIR attempt to KEEP believers living under the law.

    gal5: 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

    issues about ordination of female bishops and homosexuality not being a sin are about living according to the spirit, being led by the holy spirit and serving of him vs continuing to live under the law, being led by and serving it as was done in deut28

    was it not the pharisees who attempted to condemn christ according the law, while he thru the spirit was showing them a higher understanding

    MORE FULLY EMBRACING THE NEW COVENANT means those in christ will more completely embrace the GOSPEL AS the love of the three commandments and as the realtionship with the father and the one who lives in them.

    the universal church rather than having its feet, one foot planted in the old and one in the new will have both feet more firmly in the new covenant.

    heb8: 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

    IT IS FOR THOSE WHO ARE ADAMANT ABOUT REMAINING UNDER THE LAW TO DECIDE IF THEY WILL LEAVE THE COMMUNE. it is not for the those who wish to more fully embrace the new covenant., to mitigate their embracing.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:57 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    The best and brightest coming into Catholicism as evident by thousands of pastors and academics and the thousands of ignorant catholics going to Protestantism to find something easier.

    No one ever came to non-Catholic Christianity claiming their denomination has the "Fullness of Truth". Only the Catholic Church claims this position, because having been founded by Christ on the Apostles it is a legitimate position.

    Protestants cannot claim for Truth because none of their many sects were ever founded by Jesus, ministered by the Apostles or their successors. Protestantism is the new relativism where every individual is their own Pope, which is completely unbiblical. Protestantism is unbiblical.

  • Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:56 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    for 2000 years the holy spirit has been gradually weaning christendom off the old covenant. historically all the executions of the martyrs bv the church was its attempt to KEEP believers living under the law.

    gal5: 16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

    issues about ordination of female bishops and homosexuality not being a sin are about living according to the spirit, being led by the holy spirit and serving of him vs continuing to live under the law, being led by and serving it as was done in deut28

    was it not the pharisees who attempted to condemn christ according the law, while he thru the spirit was showing them a higher understanding

    MORE FULLY EMBRACING THE NEW COVENANT means those in christ will more completely embrace the GOSPEL AS the love of the three commandments and as the realtionship with the father and the one who lives in them.

    the universal church rather than having its feet, one foot planted in the old and one in the new will have both feet more firmly in the new covenant.

    heb8: 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

    IT IS FOR THOSE WHO ARE ADAMANT ABOUT REMAINING UNDER THE LAW TO DECIDE IF THEY WILL LEAVE THE COMMUNE. it is not for the those who wish to more fully embrace the new covenant, to mitigate their embracing.

  • Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:40 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Don't forget the countless scores of Catholics exiting the Catholic regime to find the truth in Protestantism.

  • Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:33 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    It is of great importance that the divisions which subsist among us should not be known to future ages, for nothing would be more ridiculous than that we, who have broken ourselves off for the whole world, should have agreed so poorly among ourselves from the very beginning of the Reformation.

    -John Calvin to Phillip Melanchton, 1522

  • Tue Feb 10, 2009 6:26 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Come home to what?

  • Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Not only will they not sweep this under the rug, but right now high level Anglicans are discussing with the Vatican of creating an Anglican Rite within the Catholic Church.

    Many of these conservative orthodox Anglicans already are high church and accept 95% of Catholicism. High Church Anglicanism will soon come home, I pray.

    I love these Conservative orthodox Anglicans who will not accept homosexual marriage, active homosexual priests and Bishops, and Women as Priests, deacons and bishops. These Bible loving Anglicans will come home, I pray.

  • Tue Feb 10, 2009 2:24 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    (One prominent conservative bishop demanded that the (bitter truth) be acknowledged-that their differences are irreconcilable)

    It appears not everyone in this communion is willing to sweep this issue under the rug . . .

  • Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "...one prominent conservative bishop demanded that the "bitter truth" be acknowledged – that their differences are irreconcilable."

    This bishop needs to be applauded. The reprobate American church has had its day to shine. She apparently would be more inclined to receive judgment rather than ever repent for her marriage to the culture.

    Meanwhile the rest of Christendom - the unheard and persecuted thousands - the Africans, Chineses, et al - have taken up the call to be the true church in our generation.

    The American church is more concerned about the color of the carpet, prosperity, entertaining the masses and the love of self to even notice that its mostly an afterglow of its former self.

    Jesus said that on the acknowledgment of Him as the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. He did not define it as only the "American" church, but the church whole. The American and European churches can slip into the pages of time and His church (the faithful church) will still march on in China, Africa, et al.

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