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World|Wed, Feb. 11 2009 12:42 PM EST

Church of England Moves Forward with Plans for Women Bishops

By Maria Mackay|Christian Today Reporter

Plans for women bishops in the Church of England will move to the revision stage after a vote of approval in the General Synod Wednesday.

After more than two hours of debate, the Synod voted to send draft legislation on the consecration of women bishops and a Code of Practice to a revision committee.

A group led by the Bishop of Manchester, the Rt. Rev. Nigel McCulloch, drew up the proposals following an emotional debate last July when members voted down a number of legal safeguards for traditionalists unable to accept the ministry of women.

Bishop McCulloch said it would be “tragic” if the Church of England fell at the first hurdle in seeing women ordained to the episcopate.

Not passing the motion, he noted, would "certainly mean that the prospect of women bishops would recede by several years."

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr. Rowan Williams, told the Synod he supported women bishops and that his decision to abstain in last July’s Synod debate reflected his concern that plans for women bishops should be good news for supporters as well as opponents.

He said he was hoping and praying to one day be able to vote in favor of a motion on the consecration of women bishops “with a sense of full-hearted gladness that this is good news for everyone to some degree in our Church.”

"Because if it isn’t then I think there is something missing in our witness to one another as well as to the world,” the Archbishop said.

Opponents of female bishops told the Synod of their concerns over the proposed Code of Practice. While the Code of Practice would allow parishes unable to accept women bishops to petition for a complementary male bishop, the diocesan bishop would be entitled to refuse the petition. The petitioning parish or church would then have to seek a judicial review in the high court to overturn the decision.

The Rev. Rod Thomas, Chairman of Reform, said that a Code of Practice was “a very uncertain instrument” that left traditionalists “with a feeling that our ministry in the Church is simply being tolerated rather than we are being given space where our ministry is encouraged to flourish.”

Also, the Bishop of Norwich, the Rt. Rev. Graham James, warned that the consecration of women bishops would be damaging to the episcopate and only lead to further divisions.

“I believe that women should and will be ordained to the episcopate but what I see before me in the proposed legislation is an episcopate so damaged and fractured as to be scarcely worthy of the name," James stated. "I cannot see what amendments would render this legislation satisfactory.”

Synod members now have until March 16 to submit proposed amendments for consideration by the revision committee. The full revision process will take years, however, and the Church of England said the first woman bishop would not be consecrated until at least 2014.

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  • believer »
    Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    feet, considering the covering issue was only spoken of in the letter to the Corinthians we can assume it was a cultural issue for that society, but considering the headship issue is spoken of a number of times in the Word of God we can assume this is teaching for all Christians to adhere to.

  • believer »
    Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    feet, that's your choice to make but in the words of Joshua, as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. And will do this by adhering to the truths taught in His Word rather than relying on what we witness in others who profess to be Christians.

  • feetxxxl »
    Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    reedit


    feet, so Paul's letters to the Corinthians, Timothy, and Titus and Peter's Letter do not suffice.

    no i acknowledge all those scriptures. my witness does not agree with your interpretation of the meaning of those words, or with your understanding that because paul chose to do something we should chose to do the same.

    outside of pentecostal churches what other church holds to regulations about hair. what churches if any require women to wear a covering on their heads when attending services?

    wouldn't you think that if your interpretation were true that women should be acknowledging it thru someform of ritual?

  • feetxxxl »
    Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, so Paul's letters to the Corinthians, Timothy, and Titus and Peter's Letter do not suffice.

    no i acknowledge all those scriptures. my witness does not agree with your interpretation of the meaning of those words, or because with your understanding that because paul chose to do something we should chose to do the same.

    outside of pentecostal churches what other church holds to regulations about hair. what churches if any require women to wear a covering on their heads when attending services?

  • believer »
    Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, so Paul's letters to the Corinthians, Timothy, and Titus and Peter's Letter do not suffice?

  • feetxxxl »
    Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    regardless there would have to be a witness that acknowledged where the spirit rests as in acts 10. i know of no witness that testifies to a different authority and anointing given women compared to that given men.

  • believer »
    Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, and once again remember the issue is authority and not ministry.

  • believer »
    Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, remember Adam was standing right there when Eve bought the lie and ate the fruit, had Adam taken on his God-given role as the spiritual head of the marriage he very well may have stopped Eve from eating the fruit.

  • feetxxxl »
    Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    please explain. all are one in christ, there is no male or female. christ lies in both male and female believers. in that regard, both having intmate relationships with christ, why would a person of a particular gender need to go to another particular gender to know what is of christ. christ being given all judgements and being over all things.


    john16:14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.






    we know that physicality has no bearing over the things of the spirit. god can raise up rocks to be the "children of god"

    on the other side its interesting that god told only adam about the not of the tree of knowledge. and that eve in deciding whether to eat it, rather than going to one who told her what god said ,chose to make a decision according to her discussion with the snake. in the hypothetical would that be a case of eve's deliberate poor judgement or adam's lack of leadership, or both?

    however it should be acknowledged that god created eve after he created and gave instructions about the tree of knowledge.

    you function thru a system of laws . i function thru the leading of the spirit. i have no experience of witnessing anything being withheld because of gender. or a difference of anointing because of gender.

  • believer »
    Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, Paul asserts that women are not permitted to have authority over men(I Timothy 2:12). Men and women are to both be under the authority and submit to the headship of Christ(I Corithians 11:3). Male headship and leadership was not a cultural matter by the fact it is based on the very order of creation(I Corinthians 11:9, I Timothy 2:13). It should be noted that these passages are not negating the ministry of women, but are limiting the authority of women.

  • feetxxxl »
    Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    what scriptures give an explanation of the meaning of spiritual headship? what is the relationship between spiritual headship, and each individiuals realtionship with christ would lives in them. as well as with each individual's reliance on the holy spirit who convicts them of all truth.

    as paul said under the new covenant, we are led by and serve of the holy spirit.

    those women who have given their lives to be pastors and bishops do so out of prayer and faith that they are being led by the holy spirit. the testimony of the congregations that they minister to, is that as a pastors they been covered with an authority and an anointing that is of the holy spirit.

  • believer »
    Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, I wondered how long it would take you to invoke the 2nd part of the Great Commandment. I believe that Paul did not mean women could not teach men but rather could not teach that it was permitted for women to have spiritual headship over men in the home or the church. That's the issue spiritual headship. I've lent a book I found to another Pastor called I believe "Equal But Separate" which talks to this issue from a very biblical perspective although the author believes that women should not even teach men. By the way Beth Moore, Anne Graham Lotz, Nancy Leigh DeMoss, and Kay Arthur all talk to this issue as well and believe no women should have spiritual headship over men in the home or church either.

  • feetxxxl »
    Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    i have researched the web, and looked thru al my own references and it appears no one understands what this headship means.


    in phillipians paul refers to both men and women as his yoke fellows. in corinthians he talks about women prophecing and praying in church. in my church experience prophecying is definitely several steps above merely being allowed to speak out in church.

    the point is there is nothing in the epistles that discourages women teaching men.

    i have seen a number of teachings of beth moore being viewed by and appreciated by both sexes.

    i have witnessed the same with joyce meyer.

    and i have been in the same church that had both men and women pastors. both had the same anointing and the same authority in their individual ministeries.

    from my witness alone i would have to testify that i have witnessed no difference in the leadership according to the gender either in anointing or authority.

    in scripture i know of no verse that clearly states that it isnt of the new covenant of christ for women to teach or lead men.

    and lastly i see no way that making any restriction about ministry according to gender is mandated by the 2nd commandment or be in keeping in any way with the fruit of the spirit.

  • believer »
    Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, so what do those verses have anything to do with women having spiritual headship over men in the home or the local church?

  • feetxxxl »
    Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:25 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    you appear only to be able to focus only what displeases you.

    1cor 14:33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
    As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church

    1cor 11:4Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head,it is just as though her head were shaved. 6If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

    in prayers of the people, in my church we offer prayers aloud.

    how is it that paul refers to the law in regard to this issue but not in

    1 Corinthians 5:1
    [ Expel the Immoral Brother! ] It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.

  • believer »
    Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, a wife submitting to her husband is a decision between the wife and God, a wife must choose to submit to her husband, a husband is not to demand that his wife submit to him.

  • believer »
    Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:46 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, other than the 2nd part of the Great Commandment are then any of God's teachings in the Bible you feel compelled to believe and obey? Scripture is clear that God's orignal and only design is that God should have spiritual headship over everyone and in the home and in the church women should not have spiritual headship over men.

  • feetxxxl »
    Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "feet, I Timothy 2:11-12, "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

    the fact that paul says that this is his choice and not by direction of the spirit i would think that this is his personnal choice. paul was concerned that all his churches would function similarly.

    i will have to admit i dont understand the verses about scripture that says christ is the head of man and man(husband) is the head of woman(wife).

    this particular use of the word "head' is no where else in scripture. and i know no believing husband who has ever been able to explain this in his own marriage.


    paul says in regard to choices............1cor 23"Everything is permissible" but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

    in regard to differentiating one gender from another.

    "...God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them" (Genesis 1:27, NAS).

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus' Galatians 3:28

  • feetxxxl »
    Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:15 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "feet, I Timothy 2:11-12, "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

    the fact that paul says that this is his choice and not by direction of the spirit i would think that this is his personnal choice. paul was concerned that all his churches would function similarly.

    i will have to admit i dont understand the verses about scripture that says christ is the head of man and man(husband) is the head of woman(wife).

    this particular use of the word "head' is no where else in scripture. and i know no believing husband who has ever been able to explain this in his own marriage.


    paul says in regard to choices............1cor 23"Everything is permissible" but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

    in regard to differentiating one gender from another.

    "...God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them" (Genesis 1:27, NAS).

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus' Galatians 3:28

  • feetxxxl »
    Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:12 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "feet, I Timothy 2:11-12, "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

    the fact that paul says that this is his choice and not by direction of the spirit i would think that this is his personnal choice. paul was concerned that all his churches would function similarly.

    i will have to admit i dont understand the verses about scripture that says christ is the head of man and man(husband) is the head of woman(wife).

    this particular use of the word "head" is no where else in scripture. and i know no believing husband who has ever been able to explain this in his own marriage.


    paul says in regard to choices............1cor 23"Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive. 24Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others.

    in regard to differentiating one gender from another.

    "...God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them" (Genesis 1:27, NAS).

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus' Galatians 3:28

  • believer »
    Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, I Timothy 2:11-12, "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet." I Peter 3:1-2, "In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the Word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior." So in the church and in the home women are not to exercise spiritual headship over men. So if being a bishop gives a woman spiritual headship over men, a women should not take or be put in that position according to the Word of God.

  • feetxxxl »
    Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, but none of the ladies you named by virtue of their position had spiritual headship over men. That is the key issue, spiritual headship over men. Even in the New Covenant the Bible is clear, a woman shall not have spiritual headship over a man in either the home or the church.

    which scripture are you referring to. is this another law of the new covenant that some believers think we are to be led by................like natural design?

    in my church women particpate in intercessory prayer, give teachings, lead worship, serve on the vestry, and head ministry. is this what you are talking about headship. where does this headship begin and end. is their distinction about what is or is not headship?

  • believer »
    Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    feet, but none of the ladies you named by virtue of their position had spiritual headship over men. That is the key issue, spiritual headship over men. Even in the New Covenant the Bible is clear, a woman shall not have spiritual headship over a man in either the home or the church.

  • feetxxxl »
    Thu Feb 12, 2009 5:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    where is your biblical proof that under the new covenant women bishops are against god?


    feet, both Paul and Peter say that a woman is not to have spiritual headship over men in the church or the home. So if a woman being a bishop gives her spiritual headship over men she should not be put into that position if the church or denomination wants to adhere to biblical teaching.

    RESPONSE

    http://www.helpmewithbiblestudy.org/11Church/PublicExaminingAuthenticity1CorReviewOfInterpretations.aspx

    this website gives a very ballanced discussion of the subject

    apart from that discussion, it would seem that paul is not contradicting romans," being led by and serving of the spirit", when he talks about" speaking" in regards to "submission" according to" what the law says".

    he is not trying to create spiritual rule about speaking, but rather a social rule of operation for all the churches, that was in keeping of a spiritual understanding of submission.

    in addition i think the emphasis is more than merely on spiritual understanding. but also societal law as well. at the time of paul, all societies and cultures gave very little or no rights to women (almost to the point of making them property). what ever rights women had were thru the men in their lives..............fathers, brothers, husbands. without a doubt this made the order of the day of society that women be submissive to male authority. paul realized that the because society is the church and church is society. in order for there to be peace in the of affairs of the church, church affairs needed to be conducted in the church as was done in outside society.

    so in corinthians law refers to multiple things.

    BUT.....to take the societal understandings of 55ad and attempt to apply them to 2009 ad is beyond ridiculous.

    and according to the importance of witness and testimony, there is no witness that testifies that in the church, female leaders are any less anointed than male leaders, less filled with the fruit of the spirit than male leaders, or any less given to having talents for being leaders than male leaders.

    is not history filled with examples of great female leaders....................queen elizabeth, golda mier, margret thatcher?

  • FullGospel »
    Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Is there anything they won't approve?

    Next year's debate: gay women bishops...

  • believer »
    Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:04 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    feet, both Paul and Peter say that a woman is not to have spiritual headship over men in the church or the home. So if a woman being a bishop gives her spiritual headship over men she should not be put into that position if the church or denomination wants to adhere to biblical teaching.

  • feetxxxl »
    Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Good news bad news scenario. The Bad news is that these Anglicans think they even have the right to make a woman a priest or bishop, which is contrary to sacred scripture and sacred tradition of the Apostles.

    where is your biblical proof that under the new covenant women bishops are against god?

  • David Ben-Ariel »
    Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    God Doesn't Ordain Women Preachers!
    I just read an abominable article written by a proud and stubborn woman attempting to justify rebellious women doing what only God has ordained men to do: preach from the pulpit as ordained ministers.
    http://www.davidbenariel.org/cog/god-doesnt-ordain-women-preachers.htm

  • msnchris70 »
    Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:54 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    Good news bad news scenario. The Bad news is that these Anglicans think they even have the right to make a woman a priest or bishop, which is contrary to sacred scripture and sacred tradition of the Apostles.

    The Good news is this Spring the Traditional Anglican Communion of over 400,000 members will enter into full communion into the Catholic Church and this will provide a way for approximately 10 million Anglicans in Britain to come to Rome as well. Needless to say there could be millions from Africa too that enter the Catholic Church.

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