Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Education|Sat, Feb. 14 2009 08:45 AM EST

Christian Evangelist's Book Ranked Bestselling 'Atheist' Item

By Katherine T. Phan|Christian Post Reporter

A new book by a leading Christian evangelist on how believers can prove God's existence to an atheist ironically became Amazon's bestselling book in the Atheist category on the first day of its release.

On Thursday, You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence but You Can't Make Him Think soared to the top of Amazon.com's sales charts, nabbing top spots in the Atheist category and Apologetics category.

Authored by evangelist Ray Comfort, the book knocked Richard Dawkin's The God Delusion to the No. 2 spot in the Atheist category. Overall, Comfort's book ranked in the top 50 bestsellers on Amazon.

The book, subtitled "Answers to Questions from Angry Skeptics," is a response to a movement known to many evangelical leaders as Militant Atheism, a new breed of atheists who aim to eliminate Christianity.

Compared to the past, when atheists stated their positions in civilized debates, the new breed of militant atheists now go on the offense, attacking Christianity as an evil and danger to society.

Comfort, who teaches street evangelism methods along with actor Kirk Cameron on the award-winning reality TV program "The Way of the Master," seeks to equip Christian on witnessing to atheists in his new book and help "pull the plug on the rising tide of atheism."

He believes the key in witnessing to atheists is to appeal to their conscience, rather than their intellect.

Every person has been given a conscience or "inner light" by God that "leaves us without excuse for our sin," according to the book.

"We don't have to prove that God exists to the professing atheist," Comfort writes. "This is because he intuitively knows that He exists. Every person has a God-given conscience. The Bible tells us that this is the 'work of the law written on their hearts.' Just as every sane human being knows that it's wrong to lie, steal, kill and commit adultery, he knows that God should be first in his life."

In the book, he compares being an atheist to playing Russian roulette with all barrels loaded.

"An atheist can’t win. Of course, he feels and acts like a big player, until the trigger is pulled," asserts Comfort, who runs a blog called "Atheist Central."

"The issue isn’t the existence of God. If the atheist is wrong and there is a Creator, then he was wrong. He gambled and he lost. No big deal. The real gamble is that there’s no hell. That’s what makes the player sweat just a little. 'What if?' is the deep and nagging doubt."

The book, written in a Q & A format, highlights actual questions atheists sent to Comfort and his answers.

The package that features the book also includes copies of The Atheist Bible and the Charles Darwin Bible, designed to help Christians refute atheism and evolution.

You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence but You Can't Make Him Think was released on Feb. 12 to coincide with "Darwin Day," which marks the bicentenary of the birth of Charles Darwin.

"It was Darwin who devised, for the first time in history, a way to explain Creation without the need for a Creator," stated the Living Waters Web site, a ministry founded by Comfort.

Someone cannot believe in both biblical God and evolution, the evangelist contended.

"They are diametrically opposed. There is no way you can reconcile Darwinian evolution with the Bible," Comfort said during an interview Thursday with Christian Broadcasting Network.

Ray Comfort has authored 60 books, including several responding to atheism. He was a platform speaker at the 2001 27th convention of "American Atheists," and has appeared on ABC’s "Nightline" with actor Cameron debating "The Existence of God."

Sort by: Newest | Oldest | Agree | Disagree
All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Christian Post or its staff.
1 | 2 | 3
  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:54 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    0 x 0 = Atheism.

    I've seen this written on debate sites on the net. It is reality. And even the New Atheists know it.

  • Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:33 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 1

    abishag98 said
    "Yo Vastet! You asked: "Why is it that Ray and his flock don't consider the possibility that God CREATED evolution?"

    We have. And He didn't. Case closed."

    Then by your own words, the Christian God doesn't exist, because proof of evolution is incontrovertable, yet God supposedly created everything.
    Of course, the Vatican disagrees with you, and they have more authority than you. So where to go from here? Maybe you don't know what you think you know.

    believer said:
    Vas, since God's Word in no way even eludes to the possibility of macro-evolution is the reason Ray Comfort and other Bible-believing Christians reject it.

    Macro-evolution is the creation of the Christian mind. It does not exist. Evolution is evolution. It is not 6 different versions or 20 different versions of evolution, it is quite simply evolution. Evolution refers ONLY to life changing and adapting through generations. It has nothing to do with a monkey giving birth to a sheep, or some similar ludicrous suggestion.

  • Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:25 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    mo, that's a tough question to answer from a human perspective, but considering all that He has done for us already through the life and death of His only Son, Jesus Christ, why not simply repent and turn to God by putting your complete faith/trust in the person and work of Christ alone. And the best answer I can give you is that God is perfect and holy and only those who are perfect and holy can come into His presence and the only way we can be made perfect and holy is to be washed in the blood of Christ which is what happens the moment we are saved. But if I don't hear from you again I have truly enjoyed our discussion even though it got off on a bumpy start and know I am praying for you, take care believer.

  • Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:50 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    true. But he could just let us into heaven regardless. He can't make us accept his love, but he could give us paradise without that.

    Anyhow, christianity hasn't been able to defend this position in 2000 years, I don't expect you to be able to do so now. Especially given you are trying to defend an imaginary creation of mankind which is an expression of its own screwed up psyche.

    I'm pretty out of time for this, have a good one!

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:16 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, unconditional loves does say if you see someone who is hungry and regardless of how they feel toward you, if you have food you share it with them, but you can't force them to eat the food you share with them and if they choose not to eat the food you share with them and they die of starvation it would not be the fault of the one who showed them unconditional love by giving them food. The same is true with God, He shows us unconditional love through Jesus Christ as He offers us the Bread of Life, but He will not force us to eat it.

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    unconditional love means not letting someone suffer unnecessarily. Unconditional love means "Hey, you are hungry. I know you hate me, but I'm still going to give you food"
    unconditional love, by definition, does not contain a threat of "love me or you'll regret it"

    sorry, thats just what unconditional means.
    you may feel free to believe what you want, but your description of god is NOT one of unconditional love.

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mo, God not only took a bullet for you, He went all the way to the Cross for you!

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, if you're walking down the street and there is a box marked "unconditional love" and you choose to walk by it and not pick it up does that mean there is no unconditional love in the box? Of course not, it means that you were not willing to stop and pick it up. The same is true with God's unconditional one must stop and turn from their sin and turn to God by putting their complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ alone to access God's unconditional love, He is not going to force it on anyone!

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:51 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Then that sort of proves my point.

    -god's love is not unconditional.

    -god's love is less than my parent's love (no matter how much of a jerk I was to my parents, they would always take a bullet for me).

    -god expects us to treat each other better than he treats us.

    None of the above makes much sense. It costs god nothing to allow someone into heaven. And the punishment serves no purpose.
    god is, basically, a "love me or else" kinda guy.

    That makes no sense in a supreme being. That, imho, is an internal conflict. God can't be all loving and attach an 'or else'.
    Hence my view that, AT BEST, the christian god is untrustworthy.

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mo, I will only speak to those who refuse to accept Christ as Savior, they made a decision and they knew the consequence of the decision. Let's go back to the example I used several days ago. A person is found guilty of a crime that requires the death penalty and the judge gives him one of two options, he can go ahead and take the death penalty or there is a man who has already been put to death on his behalf and he can simply go free even though he was truly guilty of the crime and he indeed did deserve the death penalty. He knows both the choices he has and the consequences of each choice and he has the ability to make a choice and recieve the consequence of his choice. The same is true of every person who hears and understands God's plan of salvation. We are all guilty of sin and because God is a perfect and holy God we cannot come into His presence with sin in our lives, but because God desires fellowship/relationship with us so much He made a way that we could not only be forgiven of our sins but cleansed as well and that was fulfilled when Christ, the perfect sinless Son of God, shed every drop of His blood on the Cross so we could be saved. So now a person has a choice to make, do they accept Christ as Savior and go free or do they choose the eternal death penalty. People who reject Christ do not go to hell blindly, they made the choice and they knew the consequence of their choice.

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    You've brought up perfectly my big point: "All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness."

    When one is comdemned for eternity...there is no 'afterwards'.
    There's only a couple rational reasons to punish someone.
    1. change the offenders behavior
    2. prevent others from taking part in that behavior
    3. a balancing of scales
    #1 and #3 simply don't fit in with the concept of eternal punishment. What crime could warrent ETERNAL (not a million, not a billion years..ETERNAL) punishment? What scales would need that for balance (one would think such balancing would be unnecessary in heaven but...)?
    #1 definitely doesn't fit since, if my punishment is eternal, I can't take part in the bad behavior anyhow, and, further, since I'm dead.

    So #2 might still be in play, but given #1 and #3, doesn't that punishment far outweigh any crime that might be prevented?
    Further, aren't there more humane ways to convince people to not do this without requiring some to be ETERNALLY punished?

    This, actually, was the first real conflict I found in the christian version of god. Eternal damnation and a knowable, comprehensible god are mutually exclusive.

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:42 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, Hebrews 12:11, "All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness." As a child we do not consider the discipline of our parents as loving, but as an adult we can look back and be thankful that they did discipline us because it helped us to learn and mature. Our parents set standeards for us and when we did not live up to those standards there were consequences and the same is true with God, He has established a standard by which a person can be saved and there are positive consequences if we abide by them and negative consequences if we don't abide by them. So where is the inconsistency?

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, please cite examples of where you see God has been inconsistent?

  • Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:58 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Please note that I all I'm saying is that he can't be trusted, not that he actually is lying.

    Trust, basically, is based on understanding. I trust my wife because I understand how she thinks and feels so I can make predictions based on that understanding.
    The coworkers I trust I feel the same about. Their behaviors and thought processes are, or at least appear to be, comprehensible.
    In many ways, I can even trust those who aren't trustworthy, if you define trust as the ability to rely on predictable behavior.
    Obviously, no one is 100% predictable, but when we say 'trust' we mean that we know how the person will behave the majority of the time in particular situations.

    My friend may do something I didn't forsee, and even something that seems out of character, but usualy there is an explanation that I can then work into my understanding of this person.

    At the core, though, is that they have similar emotions to my own and that they also think (basically) rationally.

    This ISN'T the case with the insane, for example. They live by different rules of reason which, worse, are often not internally consistent. Thats what makes them often unpredictable. Without an internally (mostly) consistent framework, their actions can't be seen as anything but random.
    While they may not have diabolical intentions, they can't be trusted because they can't be, really, understood.

    In the way, god can't be trusted. His claims about himself are internally inconsistent. They may be consistent from the higher perspective of a omniscient being, but from down here they are not.
    And, since I can't possibly understand his motivations, the only thing I have is hope of finding that consistency within his personality.
    But, there is no consistency.
    So, his own internal logic defies logic, and his perspective is impossible to comprehend, so he is, ultimately, completely unknowable. if he is unknowable in this sense, there's no reason to believe anything he says. He might say he loves us all, but how can I trust that when he appears to do things that could not be called loving? We have a contradiction.
    Perhaps they are loving, from his perspective. However, I can't acquire that perspective.

    So, his actions conflict (says X, does Y) and his motivations are occluded (preventing understanding of X-Y).
    There is no understanding, so there can be no reasonable trust.
    None of this says he IS lying (though the internal contradictions support the idea of some level of deception), just that there's no sane trust.

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, please share why God can't be trusted?

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    the last couple were for seedplanter.

    But I'll be pretty happy about it not being the one true god of the bible. He's not a creature you can trust.

    On the plus side, he also doesn't likely exist, so I'm pretty covered.

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:47 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, well if you do I hate to say it, but you did not find the one true God, the God of the Bible. Plus, was that last post for me and if so what were you responding to?

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    As far as the "its useful so its OK" argument goes...here's a little something from my own life.
    I write code. Early on in my career, I noticed that something I was working on was running very inefficiently, taking ages to complete.
    I rewrote the section and things went fine. I had gotten rid of Method A and, from that point forward, I assumed that Method A was bad.
    Years later, I was in a position where Method A would be useful. Some research, from my now more informed perspective, showed me that Method A wasn't bad, but by removing it, I had forced myself to avoid other problems, and write better code in general. Method A, though, had no real part in it and was just plain old fine and I'd been avoiding it for years.

    So did my thinking that Method A was bad produce a positive result? Yes.
    Was it true? No.
    Is it a good thing that I got rid of that silly misunderstanding? Definitely. I had limited myself and now had shrugged off the burden of an untruth.

    Effective? Yes. Optimal? No.


    And, finally, on the whole "that argument is old" bit...
    Many arguments are old, that doesn't make them less true. Coming up with novel arguments is simple.
    But here's an example.
    Killing people to get what you want is wrong.
    Why?
    Well, if nothing else, it creates a world that is very dangerous to live in and life is, as has been said, nasty brutish and short.
    Oh, that argument is so old...

    Or...

    Time dliates.
    How do you know that?
    Well, there's these equations from einstein and when jet pilots spend enough time in there air, their watches end up a couple seconds off.
    Oh that argument is so old.

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:58 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I'm gonna have to hope that, if somehow there is a god and that he does reveal himself to me, that your understanding of him is 100% off base.

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, I believe it's now between you and God, my prayer is that God will reveal Himself in such a way to you that there will be no doubt in your heart and mind that He is real and loves you and desires to save you and make you a child of His and that you'll allow Him to do just that.

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    seedplanter- almost nothing you said there made any sense at all.
    I do find it funny that theists are often saying that atheists need to come up with something new. Y'all have been saying the same thing for 2000 years.

    Anyhow, the effects of religion aren't particularly relevant to its truth. I know many people for whom religion has made their lives better, and I don't begrudge them that.
    We all have lies we believe in.

    Oh, and as far as religion being a by product of evolution...
    Many things can be seen as biproducts of evolution. War, for example. That doesn't make it a good thing. Furhter, it might be a good thing at one point in time and a bad thing at another...we must evolve beyond it.

    So, I suppose, you have to decide on what your actual argument is...are you saying god exists, or are you saying that god doesn't exist but believing in him is useful?

    The former is unlikely, and the latter is unnecessary since whatever religion accomplishes can almost certainly be done with ideas based in, y'know, reality

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer - well, given that your god makes no sense at all and behaves in a way that defies all reason, then he's really not to be trusted.
    On the plus side, he almost certainly doesn't exist so...

  • Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Moleboy, you could come up with something a little more original. The old Dawkins song and dance is getting a bit old.

    If you are right and we all evolved through some mysterious natural processes what difference does it all really make anyway? I mean your brain is just having some chemical reactions, there is really no possible way to deduce whether you are right or wrong. Furthermore, religion is just a biproduct of evolution. I was just reading a new stat that reveals how children who live with their mom and dad and who go to religious services regularly do better in school on average. They are 5.5 times less likely to have to repeat a grade and the parents are 2.5 times less likely to be called by the school for behavior issues.

    Sounds like if you believe in natural evolution that it is counter-intuitive to fight against it. I just shared an article that I came across yesterday where an atheist declared that the hope for Africa's future is not in money, but in Christianity. I guess some of you nutty militant atheists just haven't dome enough homework. Remember, Dawkins is a scientist, not a historian or a philosopher for that matter.

  • Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, just the opposite, it concerns me greatly that people are refusing to come to Christ before it's everlastingly too late and that is one of the main reasons I am in the ministry and even more importantly it grieves God deeply that people are rejecting His free gift of salvation and in fact in I Peter we read that it is not God's desire that any should perish but that all would be saved. But once again He won't force anyone to be saved. Plus, if you meet a Christian who has no burden for the lost you've met either a worldly Christian or a person who only thinks or pretends to be a Christian. In fact my desire is that something one of us says to you will encourage you to become a Christian and that's not only my desire but my prayer as well. But God is both just and merciful and I won't try to sugarcoat Him for you, but tell you as best and as lovingly as I can God's truth from God's Word on this matter.

  • Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    believer - the most interesting thing about what you are saying is that you aren't terrified of an omnipotent being that would torture people just because...
    Make no mistake, thats what you just said.
    People don't accept his love, they burn for all eternity.

    Thats sort of like "Well, it isn't my fault I didn't help the guy...he wouldn't come over to our side/religion/philosophy, so I just had to let him suffer instead of giving him the medicine he needed. Its his own fault"

    but whatever floats your boat.
    You want to worship someone who, if he were human, we'd call a monster, please, feel free.

  • Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, God love is unconditional but one has to choose to receive it. When I was a teen my folks put in an above-ground swimming pool, but I wanted an in-ground one, so to teach them a lesson I never swam in it except on a couple of occasions. As I look back I see how childish and selfish I was, the pool was there and barring bad weather I had access to it any time I wanted, but my parents did not force me to go in and I missed out on having a lot of fun to inlude having all my friends come over and enjoy the pool. The same thing is true with God, He is ready to accept anyone who will turn from their sins and turn to Him but He will not force anyone to do that and at the same time just as I received negative consequences from my dumb choice so to people who refuse to turn from their sin and turn to God will also receive negative consequences for that choice. So was it my parents fault that I missed out on a lot of good times in the swimming pool or was it mine. Plus, to the best of my knowledge my parents never stopped loving me because of my dumb choice and the same is true with God, but once again He will not force His love on anyone and He has done all He can and will do to show each of us how much He loves us through the Cross of Christ!

  • Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:45 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    shockingly, its getting panned...Ray really is one of the worst people to be in the christian-atheist debate. The man barely understands english, has no understanding of logic, and just out-and-out lies.
    Watching the debate he and kirk cameron did against RR last year was comedy!
    Srsly, debate, ur doin it wrong!

  • Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Those chaps who bought the book are now posting their reviews on Amazon, here's the link...

    http://www.amazon.com/Lead-Atheist-Evidence-Cant-Think/product-reviews/1935071068/ref=cm_rdp_hist_hdr_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

  • Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Look...god's love is either unconditional or he isn't any better than normal people, just more powerful.
    If he's no better than normal people, just more powerful, then the only reasons to worship him are fear and trying to garner favors.

    And, since you have made it clear that gods love IS conditional...
    (and please don't say "even though he loves you, he is willing to condemn you to eternal torture"...thats not love...well, maybe it is...the same kind of love that has husbands beat their wives because they can't stand for them to leave...that kind of love I can live without, thanks)

  • Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    what part of that justifies condemning someone to eternal damnation?
    The only reason to do that is spite and vengence.
    Is your god spiteful and vengeful?
    My parents did wonderful things for me, gave up a large part of their lives for me.
    If I were ungrateful, they wouldn't shoot me.

    Every time you say something, your god sounds less and less like a god and more and more like a petulant child who throws a temper tantrum when he does a nice thing and gets no reward.

    You don't do a nice thing looking to get something back.

  • Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, since when does love make logical sense?

  • Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, so you know people who willingly sent their perfect and sinless Son to die for the sins of the world. God gave His very best so that you and I could become a child of His and all we need to do is to choose to turn from our sins and turn to God by putting our complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of His Son, Jesus Christ alone. Who willingly left His home in heaven to come to this earth and go to the Cross, voluntarily, where He shed every drop of His precious blood for the forgiveness of our sins and not only did He take all of our sins upon Himself, He also took on the penalty for all our sins as well.

  • Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:08 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    (btw, I want to follow that up by saying that all I'm pointing out is the contradictions hidden within your statements about god and how he relates to the world. I am not saying that god is like that at all, just that, if there is a god, and he is like that, he makes no sense. If he makes no logical sense, and is, ultimately, unknowable, then you can't trust him. I'm just giving my thoughts on how you describe your god.)

  • Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:11 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    see, to me, that invalidates god as anything but a tyrant.
    Look, punishing someone for a million years, fine. A billion years, OK.
    Those are a blink of an eye in the context of eternity.
    There is no sane reason to do that to someone just because they don't like you.
    The only reason to do that is vengence and thats just petty.
    So, it you are right, then god is petty and has significantly less love and mercy than I do,
    in which case how can you trust him at all?
    I mean, he is supposed to be ALL loving and ALL merciful.
    Or is that 'all' conditional on getting in line?
    Sounds to me like I know a good number of people who are better than this god.

  • Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, I forgot to tell you what the judge's other option to you was, there is a person who has already gone to the electric chair who was willing to take your penalty for your crime and if you take that option you can walk out of this courtroom a free man!

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, yes, if one willfully refuses to accept Christ and they die in that condition they will be eternally separated from God in hell for all eternity because they chose not to accept Christ as their Savior. This is not God's decision but their decision! It would be like being convicted for murder and the judge gives you two options, you can do one or the other and the other is the electric chair and even though the judge is the one who pronounces and carries out the option you are the one who chose which option would be carried out.

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    so are you saying that if one does not accept christ then one is doomed to eternal damnation in the fires of hell?

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:03 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, if our salvation was based on good works you'd be absolutely right we'd always be wondering if we've done enough or if we've done the right thing and done it the right way. But salvation is not by works, but by our putting our complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Christ alone who did the work on our behalf and the work He did was sufficient for the forgivness of all our sins past, present, and future.

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, no I have a God, a heavenly Father who is both just and merciful. He will not force anyone to love Him but He will receive anyone who is willing to repent of their sin and turn to Him. His desire is that none should perish but that all should be saved, but He will not force His salvation on anyone who refuses to accept it by their own free will. Through Christ, God has done all He can do, will do, and needs to do to save us from the penalty of our sins and now the choice is up to each person, do I choose to accept God's free gift of salvation or do I choose to reject it, the choice is totally ours to make.

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    btw, if I couldn't damn hitler to eternal hellfire, and god could, does that mean I'm more compassionate than god?

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    and that, to me, is the definition of a god who has no love or compassion and is completely unknowable and untrustable.

    If I lead a good life, but don't praise god, how could anyone possibly justify sending me to damnation? Certainly, if god exists, the rules are his to make, but that rule is completely incompatable with love and compassion. Its also completely incompatable with reason and logic, as we understand it.
    So, either you have a god who is mean, or you have a god who is incomprehensible.
    In either case, you can't count on him keeping his promises, see?
    So, there's really no reason to think about god since either he's what I just described and you can never know what the right thing to do is (since he he can't be understood and is outright mean) or all you have to do is be a good person and you'll be OK in the end because he really does love you.
    (actually, I can't conceive of any crime that warrents eternal damnation...not even hitler (and I'm jewish!))

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, the good news is that you can't legislate God's salvation as it is up to each person to determine if they will repent and turn to God as I've shared or continue going the direction they're going and wind up being eternally separated from God.

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    To each his own.
    The only problem I have with other people's religion is when they try and turn it into public policy.
    You wanna go to church and live by the rules in a text, so be it.
    You wanna make those rules laws, we have an issue.

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:00 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, my relationship with God through Christ is exactly what allows me to live my life to its fullest and God empowers me by His Holy Spirit to not only live it to its fullest, but to be able to join Him in making a difference for Him in the world we live in. It don't get no better than that!

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:47 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I caqn't be any more grateful for that than I can be grateful that Apollo and his chariot guide the sun around the earth.
    No one has ever ever ever given me any reason to believe in a giant magic man in the sky other than the fact that there are questions we can't answer yet.
    And, somehow, theres even less reason to believe jesus existed.
    So, given that, I'll save my gratitude for entities that exist.

    But what does it even matter? If I live a good life and god is a reasonable entity, I'll be OK in the afterlife which will make this life seem like a blink of an eye. If I live a good life and god ISN'T a reasonable entity, then i go to hell, but if he isn't reasonable, if he is ultimately incomprehensible, then there's no way to know if I'd get into heaven no matter what I did since an incomprehensible being might just be lying to me for reasons I can't grasp.
    If he doesn't exist, then I live this life to the fullest, instead of hoping for a thing that doesn't exist.

    See? Who needs to do anything other than live a good life then?

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, not being a wise guy here, but please be grateful that God and Jesus don't think or feel that way about you! My hope and my prayer is that God will indeed reveal Himself in such a way that there will be no doubt in your mind that He is real. Plus, I would really recommend you consider reading Lee Strobel's book, "The Case For Christ", about his journey to prove there was no God. Take care and if I misread your attitude before my apology and I have really enjoyed our posting this morning, believer

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    (nope, this thread is my first visit here, to the best of my knowledge)

    See, your basic premise is that god and jesus exist. If that were true, then you and I might have a discussion about it. However, I don't believe in god nor jesus.

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, what can ya do? Come to realize that if we could save ourselves then Christ died in vain and recognize that God loved you enough to send His Son to die so you and I could be saved and then turn from your sins as I too turned from my sins and put your complete faith/trust in the person and finished work of Christ alone! As a result you enter into a personal relationship with God through Christ, you become a child of God, you are indwelt by God's Holy Spirit, and you have a home in heaven for eternity. Plus, keep in mind that God condemns no one to hell, people condemn themselves by refusing to turn from their sins and put their complete faith/trust in Christ.
    An aside here, have you ever posted a while back under a different name, because you do remind me of a person I've posted with before?

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:43 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thank you, I suppose, but unless a burning bush starts talking to me, you'd be hard pressed to convince me of the truth in any of that.
    Actually, if a burning bush DID start talking to me, I'd assume I was having some bizarro flashback.
    But, of course, if I'm wrong, but still live a good life, then one would like to think I'll end up OK. Of course, part II, god might be a vengeful, spiteful creature who sends me to hell.
    eh, what can ya do?

  • Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:36 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mo, now that I've got that off my chest, I would like to say that even though you do not see the Bible as very relevant to your life, fortunately the God of the Bible not only sees you as relevant but send His only Son to die on the Cross for you so you would have the opportunity to enter into a personal realtionship with Him through His Son, Jesus Christ. Hopefully someday you'll come to see that and recognize how relevant the Bible is to growing in that relationship.

Please help us to monitor our message boards by flagging comments that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable.
Contact Us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Comment on this story
ID Password

Don't have a Christian Post ID? Signing up is easy. Click Here

  • icon1
  • icon2
  • icon3
  • icon4
  • icon5
The Christian Post reserves the right to terminate the account of any User who violates our Terms of Use.
Advertisement
Advertisement
CP Shopping
  • Jewelry
  • Health
  • Gifts
  • DVD
  • Coins

Bracelets | Chains | Crosses | Earrings | Gemstone |

Featured contents & Giveaways
Joolwe :
Cross-pendant necklace
Zondervan

Struggling to succeed in the Nashville music scene, talented singer/songwriter Parker James finds the competition fierce even deadly. A young woman's murder, industry corruption, a

Featured Advertiser Links