House Committee to Vote on Hate Crimes Bill

By Jennifer Riley|Christian Post Reporter

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The U.S. House Judiciary Committee will vote on a controversial legislation next week that seeks to add homosexual and transgender people to the list of classes federally protected from hate crimes.

H.R. 1913, named the Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Act of 2009, is expected to be passed by the committee next week and come to the House floor for a vote in the spring, announced Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), the original co-sponsor of the bill and an openly gay member of Congress, on his website.

An identical legislation (H.R. 1592) was passed by the U.S. House in 2007. The Senate later attached the hate crimes legislation to a high-priority defense spending bill, which included funding for the Iraq War, in a political maneuver to pressure former president George W. Bush to pass the amendment.

But Bush said the spending bill and the hate crime legislation were two separate issues and vetoed the bill including the legislation.

The hate crimes measure seeks to add violence against individuals based on sexual orientation, gender, gender identity or disability to the list of federal hate crimes. Current federal law covers crimes committed on the basis of race, religion, color or national origin. If passed, the federal government would be more involved and have greater power to investigate alleged hate crimes.

Critics of the hate crimes legislation fear that if passed, the legislation would inhibit pastors from speaking about homosexuality as a biblical sin and be interpreted in a way that bars speech against the lifestyle.

Christian leaders have pointed to hate crime laws in England, Sweden and Canada, where Christians have been prosecuted for breaking these laws.

In the United States, 11 Christians in Pennsylvania were prosecuted under the state’s hate crimes law shortly after “sexual orientation” was added as a victim category several years ago. According to reports, the ten adults and one teenager were singing hymns and carrying signs at a homosexual celebration in Philadelphia when they were arrested.

But Rep. Frank assured that the new bill would only apply to violent crimes and “does not infringe on free speech in any way.”

President Obama has expressed support for the hate crime legislation in the past and is expected to sign the bill if passed.

Christian leaders who have spoken against the 2007 hate crimes legislation include Dr. James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family Action; Tony Perkins, president of Family Research Council; Richard Land, president of The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention; and Bishop Harry Jackson, senior pastor of Hope Christian Church and chairman of High Impact Leadership Coalition.

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MickeyC »

Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:19 pm Agree: 5 Disagree: 4

Flagged as inappropriate. show Good News! The House passed the hate crimes bill. hide
sophilyn »

Wed Apr 29, 2009 12:31 am Agree: 3 Disagree: 1

We are not dealing with philosophy or theosophy but scripture. It is not man you contend with but the Most High and Christ. The law and punishment of the Most High is greater than the law and punishment of men.

Romans 3:4 KJV, "God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."
MickeyC »

Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:32 pm Agree: 5 Disagree: 2

Flagged as inappropriate. show "But this law won't remedy that it will only keep Christians from being able to speak out against certain sins and the attempts to normalise certain sinful practices as in the case of this Pastor in Canada." Once again you use lies to spread fear. The fact is you simply want laws to support your hate just as you pretend the Bible does. Your problems stem from your own self hatred at the way God made you and obviously hiding from the truth hasn't taken away your hate. hide
MickeyC »

Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:30 pm Agree: 3 Disagree: 1

Flagged as inappropriate. show "Sodom and Gomorrah were not spared, " If you had read the Bible you would know that Sodom was not destroyed because of homosexuality but because of hate. The Hate Crimes bill may be one thing that will spare this country. hide
sophilyn »

Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:17 am Agree: 5 Disagree: 4

Leviticus 18:22 KJV, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Leviticus 20:13 KJV, "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Romans 1:26-27 KJV, "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

Sodom and Gomorrah were not spared, read Jude 7 KJV, and neither will this nation if such legislation passes.
greyone40 »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:58 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

If Boissoin had been inciting violence, then it would have been a real crime, not just a hate speech case for the Human Rights Tribunal. It would have been pursued in a real court which would have followed real legal procedures, where the burden of proof is on the accuser, etc.
believer »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 5:35 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

mickeyc, there you go twisting words again since I didn't say their speeches incited people to violence, although we don't really know how every person who heard their speeches responded and therein lies the problem, since there are some people looking for any excuse to strike out against a certain group of people. But this law won't remedy that it will only keep Christians from being able to speak out against certain sins and the attempts to normalise certain sinful practices as in the case of this Pastor in Canada.
MickeyC »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:37 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 1

Flagged as inappropriate. show "You assume something you could not possible know." Your posts make it very clear. hide
MickeyC »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:37 am Agree: 4 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "Being black and a Jew is a race and a nationality and is not the same as being gay, which is a sexual identity. " So it's OK to incite people against SOME groups, just not all? How about religious groups? After all religion is a choice.... hide
MickeyC »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:35 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "Can you prove that "the guy was in his group"? " Apparently they were able to in the hearing which is why Boission was sanctioned. hide
MickeyC »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:34 am Agree: 3 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "mickey, there were people and organizations involved in every one of the movements I shared who were just as militant in their viewpoint as this Pastor and under this law as you interpret it they would have been arrested and charged with a hate crime!" Then you'll be able to provide proof. I don't recall any suffragettes inciting others to violence but I'll be happy to see what you have. Once again, if you incite people to violence toward a person or group, it get's punished. You'll notice that even the CP tells you that in their terms of service. However, you'll also note that the KKK gets away with their nonsense on websites and anywhere else they post it and as long as they don't cross the line, nothing happens to them. Do you really think that your fear mongering does anything other than make you look ignorant and paranoid? hide
SqueakyWheel »

Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:39 am Agree: 9 Disagree: 14

Flagged as inappropriate. show Obama should be prosecuted for hate crimes against the unborn, namely an accessory to murder of unborn babies. hide
believer »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:20 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

mickey, there were people and organizations involved in every one of the movements I shared who were just as militant in their viewpoint as this Pastor and under this law as you interpret it they would have been arrested and charged with a hate crime!
Forgivensinner »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:55 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

Mickey wrote: Yet based on his letter one of his group attacked a gay man. Guess you've been proven wrong once again. That is one reason he was punished. There was a direct link.

Can you prove that "the guy was in his group"?
Forgivensinner »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:50 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

Mickey wrote: No wonder you are so afraid of hate crimes legislation.

You assume something you could not possible know.
Forgivensinner »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:49 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

Mickey wrote: However, I can only imagine how what kind of comments that letter would get in the US if instead of gay it was about Black people or Jews.

Being black and a Jew is a race and a nationality and is not the same as being gay, which is a sexual identity.
MickeyC »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:49 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "no where in the letter does he advocate or incite violence against gays,' Yet based on his letter one of his group attacked a gay man. Guess you've been proven wrong once again. That is one reason he was punished. There was a direct link. hide
MickeyC »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:46 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "libertarian, may I ask, are you suggesting God-fearing folks are killing gays? " It's certainly happened a lot in the past and those waving the Bible around as their defense are the worst. hide
MickeyC »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:45 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "mickey, based on their interpretation of what was said if these same laws were on the books in the mid 1800s and 1960s, 70s, 80s, abolitionists, civil rights, women's rights, and homosexual rights advocates would all be arrested and charged under this law." My own grandmother was arrested for women's suffrage. Rosa Parks was arrested for civil rights protests. None of these had anything to do with a inciting others to do harm. Bloission did, he got what he deserved. However, in this country, as anyone who has read KKK inspired letters, knows, it is not punishable. All the people here are trying to do is fear monger because they don't want their "right" to hate another group of people taken away. hide
MickeyC »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:41 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "Nothing Hate Speech about this." Only those who hate as much as Bloission see no hate in his letter. If it were about Blacks or Jews it would considered an outrage by everyone. You have proven "Forgivin" that your hate is the same as his. No wonder you are so afraid of hate crimes legislation. If you don't have anyone then the legislation wouldn't ever apply. Obviously those who oppose such legislation know that it could apply to them. hide
MickeyC »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:35 pm Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "And yet, at 10:54 today you accuse Stephen Boissoin of the CRIME of hate speech! Hate Speech is any speech which is against your opinion, hmm? " Wrong yet again. The Canadian system is different from the Hate Crimes Bill in the US. Boisson's letter was intended to incite people against homosexuals. Apparently in Canada that is punishable. Since you obviously don't understand the US legislation, I suggest you read it before commenting further. However, I can only imagine how what kind of comments that letter would get in the US if instead of gay it was about Black people or Jews. hide
Forgivensinner »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:23 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 3

Mr Boissoin begins:The following is not intended for those who are suffering from an unwanted sexual identity crisis. For you, I have understanding, care, compassion and tolerance. I sympathize with you and offer you my love and fellowship. I prayerfully beseech you to seek help, and I assure you that your present enslavement to homosexuality can be remedied. Many outspoken, former homosexuals are free today.

Notice he declares understanding, care, compassion and..oppp, tolerance then offers his love and fellowship!

The letter reads: My banner has now been raised and war has been declared so as to defend the precious sanctity of our innocent children and youth,

The war is to "defend"!

And his weapon as he states: With me stand the greatest weapons that you have encountered to date - God and the "Moral Majority

Humm, the weapon is God's Moral majority!

He continues: Know this, we will defeat you, then heal the damage that you have caused.

He wants healing!

And: Many people are so apathetic and desensitized today that they cannot even accurately define the term "morality."

He wants to bring people back to life. He wants to give people back what is "Moral"!

And: "Come on people, wake up! It's time to stand together and take whatever steps are necessary to reverse the wickedness that our lethargy has authorized to spawn.

Notice he stresses "to reverse.....what has been authorized." Which is stated in the previous paragraphs ~ Teaching their kids homo - sexuality in schools, which included "premeditated strategies, aimed at desensitizing", "five and six years of age are being subjected to pro-homosexual literature and guidance in the public school system", "believing that same-sex families are acceptable; that men kissing men is appropriate", "Your teenagers are being instructed on how to perform so-called safe same gender oral and anal sex and at the same time being told that it is normal, natural and even productive".
Forgivensinner »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:23 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 3

Part 2
He continues: Regardless of what you hear, the militant homosexual agenda isn't rooted in protecting homosexuals from "gay bashing." The agenda is clearly about homosexual activists that include, teachers, politicians, lawyers, Supreme Court judges, and God forbid, even so-called ministers, who are all determined to gain complete equality in our nation and even worse, our world.

Ahhha! The fight has never been with the so-called gay bashing, but though societal acceptance! It's pretty clear he understands where the fight is here! And it's not through violence.

He continues: The homosexual agenda is not gaining ground because it is morally backed. It is gaining ground simply because you, Mr. and Mrs. Heterosexual, do nothing to stop it. It is only a matter of time before some of these morally bankrupt individuals such as those involved with NAMBLA, the North American Man/Boy Lovers Association, will achieve their goal to have sexual relations with children and assert that it is a matter of free choice and claim that we are intolerant bigots not to accept it.

The ground has been gained and will open ground to be gained even further. which is why he continues: If you are reading this and think that this is alarmist, then I simply ask you this: how bad do things have to become before you will get involved? It's time to start taking back what the enemy has taken from you. The safety and future of our children is at stake.

Afterall, noone's going to believe that the homosexual acceptance is going to possibly lead to others calling for equality from "intolerent bigots". He is just being an alarmist.

Nothing Hate Speech about this. He is referring to the urgency needed "to reverse what has been authorized" and "heal that which has been damaged". To bring back the definition of "morality", all through the legal process and getting rid of the teaching that is "desensitizing".
believer »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:41 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

mickey, based on their interpretation of what was said if these same laws were on the books in the mid 1800s and 1960s, 70s, 80s, abolitionists, civil rights, women's rights, and homosexual rights advocates would all be arrested and charged under this law.
Blacksho89 »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 2:00 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 3

Mickey C at 5:55 pm yesterday: "Mickey, let's imagine for a moment that I am a Deputy DA. And I am ascribing motive to you. I have accused you of being biased. I have accused you of (hate speech).

And now you have to hire a lawyer, and defend yourself in court.
That thought should give you pause."

First of all there would need to be PROOF that I perpetrated the crime based on hate of your gender, religion, race etc. If a crime is committed solely because you are black, don't you think there should be a penalty for that? If I perpetrate a crime based on hate, then yes, I think I should have a further penalty. The scary part is, you don't. I grew up in the south and watched black people be beaten SOLELY because they were black, no other reason. Maybe YOU should think about that.

And yet, at 10:54 today you accuse Stephen Boissoin of the CRIME of hate speech!

Hate Speech is any speech which is against your opinion, hmm?
MickeyC »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:54 am Agree: 4 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "bryan, no where in the letter does he advocate or incite violence against gays" Here's what his letter says: "Instead, this is aimed precisely at every individual that in any way supports the homosexual machine that has been mercilessly gaining ground in our society since the 1960s. I cannot pity you any longer and remain inactive. You have caused far too much damage. My banner has now been raised and war has been declared ...." Also: "Come on people, wake up! It's time to stand together and take whatever steps are necessary to reverse the wickedness that our lethargy has authorized to spawn. Where homosexuality flourishes, all manner of wickedness abounds." (Note "whatever steps are necessary") Also: "Don't allow yourself to be deceived any longer. These activists are not morally upright citizens, concerned about the best interests of our society. They are perverse, self-centered and morally deprived individuals who are spreading their psychological disease into every area of our lives. Homosexual rights activists and those that defend them, are just as immoral as the pedophiles, drug dealers and pimps that plague our communities." And it ends: (obviously even he knows it's hate speech) "If you are reading this and think that this is alarmist, then I simply ask you this: how bad do things have to become before you will get involved? It's time to start taking back what the enemy has taken from you. The safety and future of our children is at stake." The letter was written with the express purpose of inciting others against homosexuals. One person took it to heart and attacked a gay man. Boisson got what he deserved and so should those in this country who do the same thing. hide
MickeyC »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 10:43 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

Flagged as inappropriate. show "I am familiar with teh case in Canada with Rev. Boissoin, which took place in Alberta." So am I and here is the real story from one of the newspapers: More specifically, your reference to Rev. Stephen Boissoin's case is grossly inaccurate. Boissoin did not just express his disagreement with homosexuals and his opposition to gay rights; he called for a war against homosexuals, using very intemperate language that demeaned homosexuals and incited hatred against them. Not coincidentally soon after his disgusting letter was published, a young gay man was attacked by someone associated with Boissoin's youth group. hide
believer »

Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:05 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

greyone, thanks for sharing and affirming what is going on in Canada with regards to hate crime laws!
greyone40 »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:58 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

I am familiar with teh case in Canada with Rev. Boissoin, which took place in Alberta. He did not commit a real crime, but was prosecuted through the Human Rights Commission in that province.
The commissions in Canada have been quite a bit of trouble especially with the hate speech provisions, which undermine free speech in the way the hate crime bill here in the USA is supposed not to.
Complainants get a free ride in the commissions, while defendants have to pay their way, without any chance of redress for nuisance suits. Boissoin had to apologize, and pay a fine/damages, and is never to speak or write about gays in a disparaging way for the rest of his life. He did not violate any real laws, like conspiracy to commit a crime, or incite to violence, or libel.
The concept of hate crimes is the beginning of going down the road that Canada has traveled, which removes individual rights in favour of collective rights. There are plenty of horrific examples beyond this one. If you want to know more go to www.ezralevant.com . he also wrote a book that is getting to be more and more relevant for americans. It was released only a month ago, entitled Shakedown.
This is a good discussion on the thread here. Very interesting reading everyone's input.
Forgivensinner »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:24 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 3

bryan wrote: I had quite a lengthy discussion with my inner conscious

I think this is why I like you. :0)

you also wrote: A side effect of blaming the pastor would be that many who already have motives to perpetrate violence would put the blame on the pastor without the sense of accountability.

A side effect indeed.

you wrote: This is just a short-term solution that does not solve the bigger problem.

I wouldn't call it a solution at all, short or long. The bigger problem is someone committing violence for any reason and is unacceptable for any reason and should and is punishable by law.

you wrote: I shall remain silent, from now onwards, on the hate crime issue.

Why? Vetting an issue either helps to come to a better understanding or solidifies our understanding. It's all good.

you wrote: I have been reminded of my stance to protect and provide for the victim, less to punish the perpetrator.

The victim does indeed need to protected and provided for, but why throw in the towel to seek punishment for the "real" perpetrator of violence against anyone! If they were violent then they need to be punished for their own good. The law is for the lawless.
bryan90new »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:57 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

I was wrong.

I had quite a lengthy discussion with my inner conscious with regard to civil law and accountability.

A side effect of blaming the pastor would be that many who already have motives to perpetrate violence would put the blame on the pastor without the sense of accountability.

This is just a short-term solution that does not solve the bigger problem.

I shall remain silent, from now onwards, on the hate crime issue.

I have been reminded of my stance to protect and provide for the victim, less to punish the perpetrator.
Forgivensinner »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:08 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 3

bryan, no where in the letter does he advocate or incite violence against gays, in fact, he goes out of his way in the very forst para to encourage gays in their struggle before becoming pretty no nonsense toward heterosexuals and those that do not stood up for God's Word, if anything it would incite the folks to pressure one another to stand up and profess God's morality, by way of hindering further legal acceptance and practices of teaching that acceptance to kids.
Prophet »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:04 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

"Religion is protected under the Act as well. Whatever we can say about religion, you can say about Homosexuals."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

True. But let's say that the new hate crime bill passes. And let's say it does follow that it includes "hate" speech.
That would be exactly what the homosexual agenda wants. If they can just get the Christians to shut up, then they'd be happy.
Prophet »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 8:00 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 1

I am rational.

From what I've understood about crimes against homosexuals is that they are rarely, if ever, perpetrated by a Christian. Most tend to be everyday people who despise homosexuality on the basis that they simply think it's a disgusting act. Others are people like skinheads and neo-nazis who are part of some strange cult. You can take away our right to speak against homosexuality, but the beatings and killings will continue.
If that kid was truly assaulted, then the laws that are in place are sufficient to convict and sentence the perpetrators. I would say the same thing if it were a Christian.
Assault is assault. Murder is murder. Murdering a homosexual because he is gay doesn't make him any more dead than murdering someone because they ticked you off.
bryan90new »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:52 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Lol... also note that the link I provided was from a christian's blog whom was against the idea that the pastor was being punished. And even with the little biased he put in, I think everyday human beings could tell why he was punished.
bryan90new »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:49 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

My gosh, prophet, if that is the case, almost all the Christians I know would be in jail. (I am in Canada)

I think the biggest news (perhaps not the only, but the only one that was publicized vastly) was the pastor in Canada whose letter I linked in my last message.

And note, after he sent that letter, a gay teen got beaten up 2 weeks later.

Prophet, I really urge you to think about the rationality:

Religion is protected under the Act as well. Whatever we can say about religion, you can say about Homosexuals.

I mean if you look at the things Richard Dawkins say on religion, everyday christians are unlikely to cross that boundary with homosexuality right? So everyday christians would not be in trouble..

Take some time to read the letter the pastor posted on local newspaper, and understand why hate crime act is necessary. If such things can be posted on local newspaper about religion, race, sexual orientation. Hell would break lose.
Prophet »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:35 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

"
CORRECT! Which means none of the members here on CP would get into trouble with the Hate Crime Act.. which is like my ENTIRE point of posting so much with regard to this matter.. It doesn't infringe the freedom of speech!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually, it does. As shown in Canada and Britain. In Britian it has in it's hate crime law that same sex relationships are protected. It also states that it protects them from anything they consider insults. Meaning, that you can't even voice your opinion about homosexuality if a gay person considers it an insult.
bryan90new »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:26 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

Prophet,

CORRECT! Which means none of the members here on CP would get into trouble with the Hate Crime Act.. which is like my ENTIRE point of posting so much with regard to this matter.. It doesn't infringe the freedom of speech!

Forgiven Sinner,
I found it here:
http://culturecampaign.blogspot.com/2007/12/pastor-found-guilty-of-hate-crime.html
Prophet »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 5:11 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

"Preaching against homosexuality as a sin is FINE. Preaching that we have the rights to hate them, and that they should be removed from earth by US, is not! Did Paul say anything about punishing the people ourselves?! He simply said, God will punish them."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know just about every regular Christain poster on CP. I know of none that have ever said that homosexuals should be removed from the earth. Lay off the dramatics and stick with reality. Again, you use that word "hate". Is it hate to call sin sin? No, because if it was, then (as I said earlier) Paul would be the chief sinner among us all. And I'm not just talking about Romans 1. He address all sorts of sin.
Forgivensinner »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:59 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

bryan, do you have a link to the letter? I am curious now.
bryan90new »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:44 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Prophet,

If you are referring to Romans 1, then I say, preach as Paul preached, and if you get into trouble, I'd be on your side as well.

Notice that in Romans 1, Paul always referred to "God". And like I have said in previous posts, saying that "God is against you, homosexuals." is FINE!

Just read the letter that the Canadian pastor sent out to understand the difference.

Preaching against homosexuality as a sin is FINE. Preaching that we have the rights to hate them, and that they should be removed from earth by US, is not! Did Paul say anything about punishing the people ourselves?! He simply said, God will punish them..

Neither homosexuality nor religion is a crime on earth. Preach of it as a crime, cajole others to treat it as a crime, and condone others to treat those who practice it without respect, and you have violated earth's laws.

As with the kingdom of heaven, we could possibly talk to God about this when we die. I have the platinum rule on my side - "Treat others as they would want to be treated."
Prophet »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:31 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

Paul preached the truth. So, see how he confronted homosexuality by calling it a curse. In today's world, he would be in prison. Actually, he was put into prison for preaching the Gospel.

But, since you are not familiar with Paul, I figure you are not a Christian, so speaking on such things is beyond you.

But you are right. It's about the law.

Here's what the law says:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Punishing Christians for speaking out against homosexuality breaks two points of the law.
If the government says that preaching the gospel is against the law, well, I submit to a higher Law. You can incarcerate me and fine me all you want. The Truth will be preached.
bryan90new »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:21 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 0

Prophet,

Great to hear that you do not hate homosexuals, but this is not about you, it's about a law.

Think of it this way, this bill only proposes that sexual orientation be put next to religion in the Hate Crime Act. So whatever we are allowed to say about religion, you are allowed to say about homosexuality. Fair?

And again, if a pastor would to preach like Jesus, (I am not too familiar with how Paul preached), and gets punished for it, I would be the first to object.

Believer, have you read that letter the pastor from Canada sent out?! It was like he was raising an army against homosexuals! Jesus has never told society to "stand up and wage war" against the prostitutes has he? And worse of all, the pastor sent it out on a local paper!

Again, the Hate Crime Act protects Christians as well! Saying no to this bill is like saying that you deserve protection more and anybody else. Saying no to this bill is like throwing Jesus's Golden Rule right back at his face.
Prophet »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:53 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

bryan,

Saying homosexuality is a plague is not saying they should be persecuted. It is preaching the Word of God. If your argument is correct, then Paul was not a man of God, for he said the same thing. And so we should eliminate all of his epistles from the Bible. But, as we know, Paul spoke under the direction of the Holy Spirit.
I do not have a hate for homosexuals. Since you do not know my interaction with them, you should really keep your unfounded comments to yourself. I have met and interacted with homosexuals quite a few times in my life. I treat them with the same respect I would anyone else. There is one restaurant here in town that we eat at that has a gay waiter. Sometimes he waits on us. Makes no difference. I treat him as I would a straight waiter.
But I do despise homosexuality. And I will preach against it. And I will call it a cancer. Just as I despise adultery, though I know quite a few people (including fellow congregants) that have and are engaged in it. I love them and treat them as I would anyone else. Actually, with my fellow brothers who are engaged in it, I will tell confront them. I don't say "Oh, I know people who are adulterers, so I better not preach against it because I might hurt their feelings." Puh-leeeease.
The world has stereotyped homosexuals as being girlie and feminine. And homosexuals play right into by acting like a little girl everytime someone calls homosexuality a sin. They cry and whine and throw a tantrum. Yeah, very mature and masculine. (sarcasm).
My advice to homosexuals? Grow up. If you want the world to quit calling homosexuals "sissies" then act like a man.
believer »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:43 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 1

bryan, tell that to the Pastor in Canada who preached against the sins of homosexuality and got arrested for it as a result of similar hate crime legislation in his country.
bryan90new »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 10:17 am Agree: 2 Disagree: 0

There is a misconception between preaching and inciting hate..

I believe right now, it's still fine for a pastor to say that homosexuals are a plague to the united states... that they should be removed, and looked at with condemnation.

If that is free practice of religious preaching, I don't know how Jesus is going to respond!

Preaching is when you tell someone what one oughts to do, and what one oughts not to do. Homosexuality is not illegal in the states, which means you can't go around saying that they should be persecuted! Has Jesus told his diciples to threat Prostitues with a lower regard? NO! He simply said "don't engage in adultery!"

Pastors are more than allowed to say "don't engage in homosexuality!" But if they incite hate among believers to have contempt for homosexuals, then it is simply WRONG.. That is not preaching.... that is not practicing free speech... That is organizing a body that executes persecution!
believer »

Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:47 am Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

ender, you're not mistaken at all, present laws are sufficient, but they must be better enforced and those found guilty of these crimes must be punished to the fullest extent of the law. You can have all the laws you want but if they are not enforced then they are nothing more than words.
ender »

Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:16 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

If I am mistaken, please point it out. But it seems to me that any violation that this law would cover, would already be covered by a pre-existing law. Why not vigorously enforce those laws? It seems that when I read the newspaper or other media, that time and time again the perps are on parole, probation, or have lengthy criminal records. Why are these people out of prison? Why does parole exist? We should enforce the laws and the sentences that the convicted receive. Until we do that, why are continuing with additional band-aids to fix the system? If the problem exist after that, then look at additional legislation.
believer »

Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:34 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 2

libertarian, I appreciate what your saying about people being attacked simply based on the fact of who or what they are and it must be stopped, but I'm not convinced hate crimes are the way to do it and mainly for the reasons I cited in my last post.
Forgivensinner »

Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:50 pm Agree: 0 Disagree: 0

libertarian, may I ask, are you suggesting God-fearing folks are killing gays?

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