Updated 04:40 pm.EST, Sat November 21, 2009

Society|Fri, May. 01 2009 08:14 PM EDT

Christian Attorneys Urge Senate to Vote Against 'Hate Crimes' Bill

By Aaron J. Leichman|Christian Post Reporter

Attorneys at a Christian legal group are urging the U.S. Senate not to pass the expanded “Hate Crimes” bill, which the House this week voted 249-175 in favor of.

The attorneys at the Alliance Defense Fund insist that the bill, H.R. 1913, could severely impede Americans’ constitutional rights to freedom of religion and freedom of expression while creating additional legal protections for those engaged in homosexual behavior that are not available to everyone else.

If made into law, the bill would add violence against individuals based on sexual orientation, gender, gender identity or disability to the list of federal hate crimes. Current federal law only covers crimes committed on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity or national origin.

“All violent crimes are hate crimes, and all crime victims deserve equal justice,” said ADF Senior Counsel Kevin Theriot in a released statement. “So-called ‘hate crime’ laws actually serve only one purpose: The criminalization of citizens based on whatever thoughts, beliefs, and emotions they have that are not considered to be ‘politically correct.’ No one should fall for the idea that this bill does anything to bring about greater justice for Americans.”

Last week, ADF attorneys had delivered a letter to the House Judiciary Committee, urging it to reject the bill. In it, the attorneys shared how similar efforts to “impose upon sincere people of faith a ‘political orthodoxy’” have already led to fines, arrests, and prosecution in states with similar legislation.

One small photography company in New Mexico, for example, had been fined by that state’s human rights commission for refusing to photograph a civil union “commitment ceremony.”

In another example, a group of Christians in Philadelphia that protested at an “Outfest” in 2005 was arrested and charged under Pennsylvania’s hate crimes laws with “ethnic intimidation,” “riot,” and “conspiracy.”

“Although the charges were ultimately dismissed (with Alliance Defense Fund assistance), they nevertheless had to go through the ordeal of arrest and prosecution,” the attorneys noted.

“Simply being required to undergo a criminal defense in such circumstances can lead to a chill and censorship of legitimate free speech and free exercise of religion activities,” they added.

ADF and other opponents of the bill see its passage as one step on “a slippery slope toward religious persecution.”

“Similar laws in this country that elevate ‘sexual orientation’ and/or ‘gender identity’ to a protected status are being used to silence and punish those who oppose homosexual behavior on legitimate moral and religious grounds,” ADF attorneys argued.

Supporters of the bill, however, say the bill is necessary, noting that hate crimes against sexual orientation are the third most frequent, behind race and religion and ahead of ethnicity or national origin.

“I would think that the followers of Jesus would be first in line to protect any group from hate crimes,” commented Dr. Joel C. Hunter, senior pastor of Northland - A Church Distributed in Florida and a member of President Obama’s advisory council for faith-based and community initiatives.

“This bill protects both the rights of conservative religious people to voice passionately their interpretations of their scriptures and protects their fellow citizens from physical attack,” Hunter continued. “I strongly endorse this bill.”

At the present moment, all states except five – Arkansas, Georgia, Indiana, South Carolina and Wyoming – have hate crime laws, according to the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights.

Before the House vote on Wednesday, President had urged both sides of the House to pass the legislation “that will enhance civil rights protections, while also protecting our freedom of speech and association.”

He later urged the Senate to work with his administration to “finalize this bill and to take swift action.”

Sort by: Newest | Oldest | Agree | Disagree
All comments on this page are subject to our Terms of Use and do not necessarily reflect the views of The Christian Post or its staff.
1 | 2
  • Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:20 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    In many instances, hate crimes are perpetrated against a person or persons that the hater doesn't even know. For example, the hater may kill a person because he doesn't like someone's perceived religion, the color of his skin, his disability, or his ethnicity.

    If someone bombs a Christian church because he hates Christians, this is legally considered to be a hate crime.

    If someone sets fire to a gay bar and blocks the exits, which happened many years ago in New Orleans, this SHOULD be considered a hate crime as well, since many people were injured or died.

    Christians, who are already covered by hate-crime legislation should not object to the GLBT folks being covered as well (unless, I suppose, they're the ones who are committing the hate crimes).

    This has absolutely NOTHING to do with freedom of speech. Christians can preach hatred in their churches as much as they want, and that speech is protected by the Constitution.

    If Christians incite people to commit violent acts against gay people, however, that might put them on shaky legal ground, especially if someone heeds their advice and goes out to shoot a gay person for Christ. (Jesus, of course, might be appalled, and one can't help but wonder what He might think of some of today's so-called Christians.)

  • Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here is a quick question to all those who fain opposition to the Hate Crimes Bills, have you read them?

    If so why not try to post some of the portions that you feel are going to prevent the clergy of your group from speaking on the subject of homosexuality in the future when these laws become effective?

    There nothing but a simple question lets see how long this stays up and if anyone here can answer the question and support their position.

    http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Gooblygook Economics

    TFR

  • Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The ADF is among a few groups of lawyers who assist evangelical and fundamentlists who often break existing laws and then use technicalities to keep the violators out of jail. The new hate crime legislation would remove some of the technicalities which enable those who carry out the violence against the LBGT community from escaping justice.

    The new legislation does not control speech, what it will help with is those who actively incite illegal actions against the LBGT community AND many other people who have been victimized at the hands of these hatemongers. Removing the loop holes is extremely feared by the ADF as it results in being able to stop those actively recruiting and enabling those who would otherwise not commit the heinous acts against people due to orientation.

    So the ADF is only against equality for LBGT, advocating violence against The LBGT community and basically keeping the laws as they are so their clients and their supporters can avoid criminal conviction and jail time for violent acts against a class of people.

    According to the ADF when this legislation passes and is in full force the evangelicals and fundamentalists will have to preach tolerance instead of advocating hateful violent oppression of the LBGT Community, their entire belief system will be completely destroyed and their
    version of religion will be so utterly disrupted that it will no longer exist.

    Well, that dog won't hunt and neither will continuing the same hatred they railed out during the Civil war period and the years following it. They pulled the same stunt then as they are trying now and it didn't work then nor will it work now. Glad to hear that it will make them actually have to practice Christianity instead of whatever it was they were preaching before that wasn't even close to Christianity.

    http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear this Blog!

    TFR

  • Sat Jul 18, 2009 1:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    danpat1_2000 »Sat May 23, 2009 12:12 am : 0 : 1 Flag

    See what's happening in Canada, the Scandanavian and European counties (recently Michael Savage has been banned from England for his freedom to say what he believes) [didn't see the ACLU rushing to him]
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    In response: Just how do you expect the ACLU to help him? The ACLU doesn't exist in England, so it would take someone admitted in England to argue the point in England to have the decision in England overturned.

    The English are far ahead in dealing with hate crimes than the US. Just look at the problems in Ireland those folks are still fighting over who controls the population the Protestants or the Catholics!

    So you have a problem with Hate Crime legislation where the people inciting the violence are worried they won't be able to get away with killing the LGBT community.


    Do you personally think it is perfectly acceptable to encourage and incite by repeatedly telling people that an abomination must be eradicated at all costs, thereby giving the members of a group the validation to violently attack and/or kill members of the LGBT community?

    Please answer the question and support your position.

    http://alockslee.blogspot.com/Stop the Hate
    TFR

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show The ADF is among a few groups of lawyers who assist evangelical and fundamentlists who often break existing laws and then use technicalities to keep the violators out of jail. The new hate crime legislation would remove some of the technicalities which enable those who carry out the violence against the LBGT community from escaping justice. The new legislation does not control speech, what it will help with is those who actively incite illegal actions against the LBGT community AND many other people who have been victimized at the hands of these hatemongers. Removing the loop holes is extremely feared by the ADF as it results in being able to stop those actively recruiting and enabling those who would otherwise not commit the heinous acts against people due to orientation. So the ADF is only against equality for LBGT, advocating violence against The LBGT community and basically keeping the laws as they are so their clients and their supporters can avoid criminal conviction and jail time for violent acts against a class of people. According to the ADF when this legislation passes and is in full force the evangelicals and fundamentalists will have to preach tolerance instead of advocating hateful violent oppression of the LBGT Community, their entire belief system will be completely destroyed and their version of religion will be so utterly disrupted that it will no longer exist. Well, that dog won't hunt and neither will continuing the same hatred they railed out during the Civil war period and the years following it. They pulled the same stunt then as they are trying now and it didn't work then nor will it work now. Glad to hear that it will make them actually have to practice Christianity instead of whatever it was they were preaching before that wasn't even close to Christianity. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear this Blog! TFR hide

  • Sat May 23, 2009 12:12 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    "I worry that homosexual zealots (I'm sure they exist as zealouts do in any movement) will use this law as a way to limit what may be preached in our churches."

    This hits it on the head--it is intended to curtail speech and has nothing to do with "hatred."

    See what's happening in Canada, the Scandanavian and European counties (recently Michael Savage has been banned from England for his freedom to say what he believes) [didn't see the ACLU rushing to him]

  • Wed May 06, 2009 10:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Come again?

  • Wed May 06, 2009 4:32 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    Forsalt, rather than spouting lies about hate crime legislation, why don't you try to educate yourself on the language? I believe (not certain) that hate crime legislation protects individuals on the basis of religion. If someone harmed or killed you for being Christian, you should be covered.

  • Wed May 06, 2009 11:53 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "forgiven, Fred Phelps, pastor of Westboro Baptist Church! "

    I notice he's on the list of people barred from entering the UK. You have to be pretty bad to get barred from a country. LOL

  • Wed May 06, 2009 9:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike85, you must be one bad dude! :0) Seriously, I applaud committed teachers in the public school systems like yourself, I know how tough it was in the late 60s in the public schools in Rochester, NY. I can't imagine how tough it must be now.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 8:27 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    You have no idea Believer! I was shoved by a middle schooler last week because I refused to let him walk away after I told him to take the earphones out of his ear. The middle schooler felt I was in the wrong and claimed he shoved me because I "got in his face." Tough luck kid!!! You disobeyed a teacher! Luckily, he has been suspended for the rest of the year. Hopefully the middle schoolers will learn you don't mess with "Mr. M" :)

  • Tue May 05, 2009 8:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike85, unfortunately sometimes it takes a brick up the side of the head, not literally of course, before some people get it! :0)

  • Tue May 05, 2009 7:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Absolutely Forgiven! I tell that to my students all the time, although it goes a bit over their heads...I'm hoping that one day the bricks I'm laying for them will build a foundation, ya know?

  • Tue May 05, 2009 7:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Thanks, believer.

    I'm afraid it reminds me of a phrase; "If you're not part of the solution; you're part of the problem."

  • Tue May 05, 2009 7:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    forgiven, Fred Phelps, pastor of Westboro Baptist Church!

  • Tue May 05, 2009 7:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I concur with both of you!

    Can I ask who Freddie is?

  • Tue May 05, 2009 7:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike22685, jerks come in all shapes and sizes and I guess sexual orientations as well!! And we should not allow jerks be seen as representative of any group of people!

  • Tue May 05, 2009 5:57 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer, that being said, I hope you will also realize it would be grossly unfair to categorize the gay community by folks like Perez Hilton or those who engaged in violent behavior during the prop 8 rallies.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike22685, to the best of my knowledge when I was a teen-ager I knew of no professing Christians nor did I ever hear anything said in the catholic church about homosexuality being wrong or homosexuals being evil and yet guys who were either known to be or thought to be homosexuals were harassed, hustled, or beaten up regardless. So to blame those in the Christian community who speak out against the sexual sins of homosexuality for violence against homosexuals is really inaccurate. Granted there are some like Freddie and company who do spew undue vehement and hate toward the homoseuxal community, he and his followers by no means represent those in the Christian community who speak out against the sexual sins of homsexuality.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 12:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike, I hear you. I think that it is mostly frustration that rises on either side of the issue. It can be be very hard to be angry and yet not sin. Take care. Been very, very busy lately.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 11:19 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Forgiven, if a Christian is honestly trying to share the love of God with me, I will know, and I can see in your post that you are. There are many on here who claim to be Christians but really just get off on their thinking they are in a place to condemn other human beings. These people completely refuse to look at or even acknowledge their own sins, and they are the ones who blatantly chose lies over truth when it comes to science (which I think can be well blended with Christianity.) Those are the people who infuriate me, because their message is certainly not of Christ.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 10:10 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    My case in point : The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act (1994) and Matthew Shepard Act expanded include 'perceived' as part of discrimination language. The Hate Crime Statistics Act of 1990 by Pres. George Bush (A Republican)was the '1st' law to include 'sexual orientation' for state Attorney General data collection for # victims of 'hate crime'. However, during the 1800s (Civil War/Lincoln) and then moving to the 1960's (Kennedy,Luther, Civil Rights) the laws were 'defining' the language to federally protect all citizens 'right' for free speech, vote, educate, live, travel, religion, employement and free from harm (due to...) regardless of race or creed. But, it wasn't until the 1990's did the language specifically eke out 'sexual orientation'. I disagree with the direction Mike was going. A true Christ follower absolutely does not give 'hate speech' nor commit or instigate 'hate crime' against anyone. A true Christian will die, in place of, for those to know the full Gospel. Of course, history proves people 'said' they were Christian 'in the name of God' having committed haneous acts of evil destruction. The truth is our Christ has taught us 'you'll know them by their fruit' meaning people can 'say' whatever, but what they 'do' is the proof. We are taught to love and forgive 70X70. As contemporary Christians in our 'humanity' and not 'in the spirit' we can become defensive. There are evil doings afoot. Even 'unregenerated'folks sense it albeit without a name. We poised on a precepis of 'no return'. The 'anti-christ' agenda is evident where our government makes wrong appear right, our trade & commerce is congealing into an 'altered state' of oneness, our education follows monkeys, our medicine has merged with mysticism, our churches have become the 'Genesis heal'(?). I guess in the final analysis, we need to know our business inorder to give a 'good & timely word in season', fear not and take rest in the beautiful fact, God is in control and He is on the throne.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 9:41 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike wrote: "I am not saying Christians are the perpetrators,"

    You did, but.....

    also: "but I am saying that if religion didn't misinterpret the Bible which translates to people hating and fearing gays,"

    People will always find "reasons" to justify their behavoirs, but many, many more, who are actually hating and fearing are not scriptural grounded and therefore act from their own internal thinking.

    And: "Christian backed "studies" spread lies, fear, and hatred, but very covertly, and it is absolutely sickening to me."

    I would not know personally, but it seems that with every study, we will always have to opposing study. And while you may see the "Christian" study as spreading lies, fear, and hatred, (which some may), it is necessary for an opposing view to normalizing homosexuality, which by most "interpretations" is yet another sexual immorality needing to stay away from or freed from.

    I know that makes you angry, I get that, but you do not give a whole lot of understanding to those that also love God, His Word and want nothing more than to help guide as many folks as possible into a right relationship with Him as He has asked us to do.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 9:14 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike22685 wrote: "Forgiven, I fully blame people who have grossly misinterpreted the Bible to condemn homosexuality as the fundamental cause for violence against the gay community."

    Mike, although, they are a few that may indeed "use" the Bible to justify their behavior, I must assert that "most" Christians simply speak out that homosexuality is yet just another sexual immorality needing to be overcome and never advocate violence against anyone, but loving reproof leading to repentence and eternal life.

  • Tue May 05, 2009 6:35 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Delight, how very typical to say its out fault that we get bullied in school and jumped on the streets, kind of like its a woman's fault for getting hit if she disobeys she husband, right? I am not saying Christians are the perpetrators, but I am saying that if religion didn't misinterpret the Bible which translates to people hating and fearing gays, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are. There isn't a single study not tied to a Christian group that says gays are pedophiles (or I should say, not a valid one that has been peer reviewed.) Christian backed "studies" spread lies, fear, and hatred, but very covertly, and it is absolutely sickening to me.

  • Mon May 04, 2009 10:45 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "I fully blame people who have grossly misinterpreted the Bible to condemn homosexuality as the fundamental cause for violence against the gay community." So if the Bible "grossly misinterpreted" why no Scripture references from you of God's acceptance of homosexuality? "" fundamental cause for violence against the gay community."" Really? Where are the links to ALL the stories that happen "everyday" where Christians are violent to gays. I hear the news and read quite extensively and I haven't yet heard of this "fundamental cause"! It is Gross Exeraggeration to claim persecution from Christians everday; your unsubstaniated claims against Christians is bearing false witness against God's Church. You are wallowing in self described victimization...just like the gay agenda says you should; demonize the opposition. I think pushing homosexual practice through legislative activism in society's face and demanding our acceptance of your sexual perversion could be a huge factor if gays are abused at all. People just don't like someone who shoves their morals onto them, right? hide

  • Mon May 04, 2009 10:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Forgiven, I fully blame people who have grossly misinterpreted the Bible to condemn homosexuality as the fundamental cause for violence against the gay community.

  • Mon May 04, 2009 9:46 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Mike22685 wrote: "....murdering and violent abuse of gays and lesbians throughout the country every single day.

    Murdered or violently abused every single day? That assertion seems extreme.

    And: "The only reasons "Christians" are afraid of that is because often times they're the perpetrators."

    Mike, you know this is an exaggeration. Most Christians may speak out, but they do not murder or voilently abuse, that is left to the unchurched, angry and already violent folk.

  • Mon May 04, 2009 5:19 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    The key sentice in this whole article is this one:

    "the bill would add violence against individuals based on sexual orientation, gender, gender identity or disability to the list of federal hate crimes."

    Note the word "violence". Who are these people who are trying to protect their "right" to commit violence? Probably the same people who are flagging all the posts they disagree with on this thread. Gay people face enough discrimination as it is, without people opposing this.

    And "those who oppose homosexual behavior on legitimate moral and religious grounds".

    There are no legitimate moral grounds to "oppose" homosexual behaviour. Just religious ones. The thought of gay sex creeps me out too, but then so do some of the other things I've heard of. Nobody's forcing me to do it, and more importantly I have no right to object if other people want to do it.

    "ADF and other opponents of the bill see its passage as one step on â

  • Mon May 04, 2009 10:20 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    People err when assuming that expanding the hate crimes statute to include sexual orientation (meaning Gay AND Straight, by the way) will "criminalize" a person's thoughts. The current hate crimes law has been on the books since 1969, and NEVER over the past 40 years has someone been prosecuted for expressing prejudice against members of a race or a religious group. Christian pastors have been invoking Scripture against non-Christians for as long as there have been Christians, and the hate crimes statute has never been used against them.

    But there is a BIG difference between expressing personal prejudice against a group, and being motivated by that prejudice to attack a person's person or property. I don't care if Pat Robertson, James Dobson, Sean Hannity or Lou Sheldon hurl their anti-Gay invective until the cows come home; but if someone uses Scripture as a justification for beating up someone who is Gay, that's a different story.

    Likewise when it comes to delineating between different crimes against property: There's a big moral and ethical difference between someone who spraypaints a "tag" on a highway overpass, and someone who spraypaints swastikas on the front of a synagogue.

    Until conservatives mount a concerted effort to repeal the federal hate crimes statute that has been in effect for past 40 years, I'll continue to see their arguments against the legislation now being considered as pretty disengenuous.

  • Mon May 04, 2009 6:31 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 3

    Bboss lady, sit down. No one is trying to promote a gay agenda with hate crimes legislation, we're trying to stop the senseless murdering and violent abuse of gays and lesbians throughout the country every single day. The only reasons "Christians" are afraid of that is because often times they're the perpetrators.

  • Mon May 04, 2009 1:19 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    if we as Christians don't stand united and fight for our
    religious rights, they will sooner than you think, be gone. The gay activists are using the so-called hate crimes to promote their agenda. Granted, there are some who are being physically abused and I don't want that to happen. But, as with other issues like abortion and homosexuality, if we don't stand up and fight to keep them from being legalized, we are signing our own death warrants as a nation. God WILL NOT TOLERATE this forever.
    We have to unite as Christians!!

  • Sun May 03, 2009 11:38 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    You "Christians," once again, are giving those who follow the teachings of Jesus a bad name. Trust me, so many people in the world cannot call themselves Christians because those who do sound and act like the pharisees that the Lord warned us against. The Talibanic "Christians" who claim to speak for Jesus, but who are really just devoted to the cult of the Republican Party, should re-visit the Beatitudes, and quickly: Blessed are those who mourn ... are the meek ... are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness ... Blessed are the merciful ... the pure of heart ... the peacemakers. Blessed are the Lawyers for Christian groups who advise the Senate to vote no on protecting gay folk from abuse and discrimination. Wow!

  • Sun May 03, 2009 5:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show MIke , Personal attacks, called ad hominem attacks and therefore straw man arguments show a inability to actualy address the issues. This " hate crimes" law is such an attack on the moral majority. Let me give you an example of such a ad homeniem attack: I ponder the theory: "Could it be possible thats these "kings" actualy hired a lowpaying third level stooge to sit here and reply and malalign and misdirect the discussion away from any truth and valid points made against this law? Such a baseless accusation as "conspiracy theory nut": would then be your NEXT baseless accusation against me. I am not suggesting such is your case, but its appearant that you are not qualified to actualy address the legalities of this issue and so must be left to failure in your attempts to malign me as well. PLease I ask you to stop the hate speach and focus on the Issues, as you hurt me deeply with your baseless acusattions of my competency and motives. hide

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:59 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show The very PURPOE of this "hate crimes" law is to ESTABLISH precedent so that further slides down the slippery slope can be acceptable based on the perverse principle of "precedent" as it is being used by jurist to legislate from the bench today, in violation of thier sworn OATHS to upHOLD the Constitution. And that above thier own personal and political purposes and motives. The Jurist is suppose to judge any NEW LAW against the established Constitution and NOT against other laws similar to it that have errantly been passed by ignorant politicaly motivated men: as a check Against the slippery slope, not as a grease to support its slide. THis nation established upon law and not "KINGS" is not suppose to have Jurist who can dictate the law from the "star chambers" of thier bench but are to be supremely UNmotivated, EXCEPT by the established chains of the Constitution. AS Thomas Jefferson stated plainly: > "BIND the Government with the chains of the Constitution, lest it become tyrannical!" Thius "law" established under the stautory or federal statues is merely one more attempt to break those chains and make our government a KING over us even to being GOD who can dictate our motives apart from our speach and decide what we can and cannot believe and act upon according to our conscience. This is NOT suggesting we can commit crimes against The LAW of God and our nation. Its DOES reveal that we are able to say "thou sinner" for is not the jurisprudence of the LAW suppose to convict a man of SIN (crime) and not mere motive? Once again we see that this new "law" is not a LAW but a political agenda dressed in the clothes of the KING who has No clothes. hide

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:41 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Yup, proof reading would be helpful. Sorry, but you feeling hated isn't enough evidence. Like I asked, please research the topic. I am no expert, but you clearly don't have a clue. hide

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    man I need to proof read before I post lol.

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:37 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    well Mike,
    iIt FEELS like HATE to ME so it Must be a "HATE" crime HUH? Thus ... you see that theses "laws" have moved beyound fact to feelings and to the subjective intent based on the jurists decision of motive rather than the FACT of a CRIME actualy being committed as the LAW is meant to address.
    Such a subjective fabrication of motive is contrary to the principles of LAW. and precedents a overrated and suspect attempt to legislate from the bench. Of one an belies the purpose of a Nation of LAWS rather than persons. ist unconmstitutional and its perverse .

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    MIke,
    you misrepresent the purpose and POINT of "motive" in the Law EXCEPT as circumstancial evidence for the likelyhood of a person committing the specific "CRIME", and as a establishment of degree of punishment based on likeliness (a unconstitutional presumption of guilt without action) of committing a crime again. As such the effect of labeling a crime " hgate" ius redundant and showes on it's face the subtle and decpetive purpose of a ulterior motive.

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:29 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Saying something like that is in no way attacking or trying to intimidate you. Please look into actual references to hate speech so you are more aware of the difference. Thanks!

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:27 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Isn't someone saying: "Jesus is rolling over in his grave" a intentional and mean spirited hate speach against Christians and the sacred Christian belief in the resurrection of Jesus? We are seeing much "hate speach" and possible CRIMES of hate against christians right here in this forum should this slippery slope of labeling motives as crimes continue!
    This sort of self imposed blindness to DOING what they accuse others of, is clearly why we do NOT need a new law, with some special name of "hate Crimes"! Legaly the MOTIVE of the criminal is irrelevant to the fact that a crime HAS been committed, if in FACT one was. Its only force is to show the likelyhood that someone committed such a crime. This makes this hate crime law redundant and clearly of a double intent as a means to slide to the next level of speach crimes; AND NO OTHER PURPOSE CAN IT ACCOMPLISH, that the ordinary law against a crime can produce.
    This law is a dangerous precedent and evidence of the end of our Constitutional Republic as a nation of Law and the beginning of tyranny.

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:27 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Lifesharer, that could not be farther from the truth. Our justice system STRONGLY takes motivation into account when judging a crime and its punishment.

    Ender, I do not know the exact wording of the law, but like I said, if it is specific about the difference between an opinion and hate speech, then no, I don't think there is any room for infringement upon free speech or religion. If people feel that is happening, take it up with the court system.

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Mike,
    If you support this legislation, do you believe it has the potential for infringement upon religion or speech? If not, then why not? (I'm curious and am very willing to admit that there are many sides to this that I may not be seeing). And lastly, if this law begins to infringe upon these rights, what should be done to the law?
    I suspect that hate speech will or may largely be determined by the individual involved. After all, any law that was so wordy as to encompass all eventualities would probably be difficult to write, understand, and enforce.

  • Sun May 03, 2009 4:05 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    All crimes committed against an individual are the same crime regardless of whether it has a label of "hate crime" (or speach) added to it or not. Such a bill as this is nothing more than a Trojan horse designed to present and to create a precedent for persecution of freedom of speech, precisely against the moral majority, against the common man, against those who would speak out against the immorality and indecency of our culture. It's clear that the liberal slippery Democrats are simply using this, and those stooges who are supposed to be of our common moral Christian faith, to try and put the face of decency upon this unconstitutonal law, while using our own decency and morality against us. After all they say: "Who could be against punishing a person who commits hate crime"? (LATER amended to "hate speach")But is not the law already addressing the issues of crimes, regardless of motives? And what makes a hate crime somehow not enforced by that law? Their's is a dubious logic at best! Why should hate crimes somehow deserve a special law, is it not rather to give power to those who already are abusing their powers, who are violating their sworn oaths to uphold the constitutional laws by legislative Fiat such as this? We are being duped in the name of goodness and rightness again. When will we as Christians wake up and stand against such abuse of power? We are a majority in this country. But we have been divided by the same powers that seek to destroy our freedoms. And we refuse to stand together because of minor differences of doctrine, I am not talking about major ones, but minor ones. And even ,ajor one should not divide those of a moral pursuasion from standing together against such perversions as this new "law" represents! We are sheep that have been scattered and are now being prepared to be slaughtered. Wake up fellow Christians; join together or YOU will be picked off one by one. You've been warned to have the courage and the decency to stand against this violation of your rights! See to IT!

  • Sun May 03, 2009 3:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Ender, and opinion is very different than hate speech, and that needs to be made clear in any hate crime legislation. Let's take the focus off of sexual orientation for a minute. If someone said "black people are lazy" that is an opinion, however ignorant it may sound. If someone is screaming n***** out a car window or threatening to kill or hurt someone because they are black, it is hate speech. Same thing applies for sexual orientation. If someone says the Bible condemns me to hell and whatnot, it is an opinion, however ignorant I think it may be. If someone is calling me a f***** or threatening to hurt or kill me because I am gay, it is hate speech.

  • Sun May 03, 2009 12:36 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    For those of you who support this legislation, do you believe that it has the potential to infringe upon religion or speech?
    Why do you believe it doesn't?
    And if such circumstances arise, what should be done? Repeal? Revision? Or what?

  • Sun May 03, 2009 12:25 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    DP, funny, many "Christians" on here claim that the world is intolerant of Christians constantly, so I would agree with you 100%!!!!

  • Sun May 03, 2009 11:39 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    "Isn't that an act of hate? "

    I've found the mose intolerant people are the one's who cry intolerance the most. "I think thou protest too much" is what I say to someone like that....

  • Sun May 03, 2009 12:54 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Aligning against "sin" and disease is not hate speech; it follows Christ's directives. This stupid bill has already been in in BOs European & Canadian models and has been used to try Ministers for quoting the Bible there (also Scandanavian countries). This is just a smokescreen. The people proposing these "specific" laws into government are known universally as "Democrats."

  • Sat May 02, 2009 10:42 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    I wonder if there is a medication for the flagger....

Please help us to monitor our message boards by flagging comments that are unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable.
Contact Us if you have any questions, comments, or concerns.
Comment on this story
ID Password

Don't have a Christian Post ID? Signing up is easy. Click Here

  • icon1
  • icon2
  • icon3
  • icon4
  • icon5
The Christian Post reserves the right to terminate the account of any User who violates our Terms of Use.
Also on CP
Advertisement
Listen to Sermons by  
Advertisement
CP Shopping
  • Jewelry
  • Health
  • Gifts
  • Music
  • Coins

Bracelets | Chains | Crosses | Earrings | Gemstone |

Featured contents & Giveaways
Joolwe :
Cross-pendant necklace
Zondervan

Struggling to succeed in the Nashville music scene, talented singer/songwriter Parker James finds the competition fierce even deadly. A young woman's murder, industry corruption, a

Featured Advertiser Links