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Society|Fri, May. 08 2009 04:17 PM EDT

Christian Broadcasters Warn of Hate Crimes Bill's Effect on Religious Freedom

By Katherine T. Phan|Christian Post Reporter

The nation's largest group of Christian media professionals warns that the expanded Hate Crimes bill currently before the Senate presents a serious risk of violating free speech rights of religious communicators.

The Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes Prevention Act was introduced in the Senate last week just as the House passed its version in a 249-175 vote. It is expected to pass the Senate despite the protest from social conservative groups.

The legislation is intended by its sponsors to protect homosexuals and transgendered people from violent hate crimes by expanding a list of federally protected groups to include sexual orientation, gender, gender identity and disability.

But the 1,400-member National Religious Broadcasters says Christian broadcasters and even pastors covering culturally unpopular views, such as preaching homosexuality as sin, could face prosecution just for expressing their religious views because their teachings could be blamed for inciting violence.

"Bottom line is we think that the bill under this language, while it's touted as something as designed to crack down on violence and hate-inspired crime, in fact can be used to prosecute non-violent crimes," NRB senior vice president and general counsel Craig Parshall told The Christian Post. "The bill has a chilling effect on the right of communicators to articulate and preach the full counsel of God."

Parshall said if the hate crimes legislation is made into law, Christian communicators could face prosecution for religious speech through already existing federal incitement and conspiracy laws.

For example, a prosecutor might argue that an attacker was inspired by a sermon against homosexuality and consider religious broadcasters or pastors who gave the message as "causal factors" in a violent crime.

And the extent of the hate crimes legislation goes beyond those who address homosexuality, Parshall argued. Christian communicators who preach on sexual sin in general, such as adultery, and the definition of marriage or teach apologetics that compare other religions to Christianity would also be at risk, he said.

The Senate version of the hate crimes bill targets alleged perpetrators who attempt to "cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived religion, national origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity or disability of any person."

Parshall said the term "bodily injury" could be used to apply to mental trauma or mental or emotional impairment such as intimidation.

Although the Senate version contains provisions that appear to protect constitutional speech and free expression, Parshall contended they are just "nice political banter" for debate that are not substantial protection for free speech.

That's because the Supreme Court and Court of Appeals' interpretation of constitutional rights has been eroding to the point that the Court has eviscerated free expression, he argued.

"If it's ever a contest of the power of government on one hand and the person's right of religious expression, the government will always win," said Parshall.

Parshall said he has been working very closely with NRB vice president of government relations Bob Powers in meeting with senators and state representatives to insist that protections for Christian communicators be included in the bill.

It's what is not written that can later be used against religious speech, he said.

Legal groups specializing in constitutional rights, including the American Center for Law and Justice and Alliance Defense Fund, have also been working with the NRB to propose revised language for the bill.

So far, the groups are still looking for a senator to sponsor an amendment to change the language.

Parshall added that his biggest concern is not with the hate crimes legislation itself but the "ripple-out effect" after the bill is passed.

He noted that the Federal Communications Commission has before it a petition to investigate "hate" on conservative radio. Private employers could be pressured to accept workers regardless of sexual orientation, such as suggested in the Employment Non-Discrimination Act. Public education could also be affected, he said.

"The hate crimes bill is not only dangerous in itself but creates an environment of the censorship of ideas that are culturally unpopular," said Parshall.

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  • Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:44 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Here is the link to the complete text of the bill HR1592 spoken of in the article above.

    http://www.govtrack.us/congressbilltext.xpd?bill=h110-1592

    "SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
    Nothing in this Act, or the amendments made by this Act, shall be construed to prohibit any expressive conduct protected from legal prohibition by, or any activities protected by the free speech or free exercise clauses of, the First Amendment to the Constitution."

    The pertinent text covering Freedom of Speech and of Religion is given in its entirety.

    Check the link, the entire bill is about 1 page long and you can read it for yourself. Nothing in there saying anyone will be charged or convicted if they speak about anyone listed under the bill.

    If anyone contends there is another then let then put up the link to the Congressional site where it can be verified and read. Remember it has to be a legitimate website and from the Government showing a real bill.
    TFR

  • Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    All homosexuals! If Jesus followers let you have all your way will you leave them alone??????????????????
    Lying is another sin that keeps one from entering into the Kindom of Heaven.

  • Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:37 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show formerchristian » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:18 am I cannot believe what I have just read.....and you folks say you are Christians!!!! Are you sure you are not Taliban Muslims??? There was a reason our Forefathers put in "separation of church and state." You folks INCITE HATE CRIMES AND SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE! We do not need to turn our country into Iran and you people, Rush Limbaugh, etc. would love to lead all your loyal followers down that path! Shame on you for not being CHRISTIAN and SUPPORTING the Hate Crimes Bill!!! Elaine Wells -------------------------------------------------------- In response: Thanks for your comments as another here who have asked similar questions and received little if anything at all. When I do read a response it is usually far from a direct response and often very little thought is given to it from the poster and that illustrates the poster is prevented due to ideology and their religious practices from forming coherent thought let alone formulating independent constructive discussion. Now some ( christians) here and it is rare are able to post coherent responses, support their positions and think somewhat independently of their claimed beliefs. The people who consistently respond and demonstrate the abilities I mentioned previously are the small group who aren't christian in affiliation and the rare few who are don't make claims to be either evangelical or fundamentalist. I am seeing quite a bit of flagging especially my posts, i haven't violated the rules, only given fact based fully supported posts directly on topic and then watch as they are removed and only recently has this site taken steps to allow a person to click to see a post flagged. The problem is the inability for some here to accept the reality of the world around them & their unwillingness to walk the walk not just talk the talk they claim is the basis of their beliefs. It is simple as long as you parrot the party line you are accepted, if you exercise critical thinking skills you aren't. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality and Truth thinking and commenting is allowed. TFR hide

  • Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:10 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    Formerchristian,
    Are you a former Christian? I think not anyone can say their a Christian. You know as well as I do that the Hate Crime Bill will be used to attack christians and silence them. Why do people like yourself come to a Christian sites for no other reason than to attack and persecute Christians. But that's ok because Jesus say Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

  • Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:04 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Ahh, yes, the argument ad fundamentariam. If you fervently believe in your religion, you are therefore a Taliban-esque fundamentalist nut. The problem with this issue is multilateral. First, one has to agree that homosexuals are, in fact, incapable of making a decision to be otherwise. Having worked around homosexuals, I have a difficult time believing this, as they often talk of "making someone gay." How does that happen if you are genetically predisposed to your sexual orientation? Also, consider that the science behind "homosexuals are born this way" is flawed. The imaginary "10%" number that floats around is entirely the product of a very flawed study that involved a large number of prison inmates who were only asked if they had engaged in homosexual activities in the past year. Duh.

    Second, you react as though we demand our rights as Evangelicals to murder homosexuals. Nothing could be further from the truth. We do, however, maintain that we have a biblical right to denounce things as sinful that God Himself deemed sinful.

    http://donaldsullivan.wordpress.com

  • Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:18 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    I cannot believe what I have just read.....and you folks say you are Christians!!!!
    Are you sure you are not Taliban Muslims???
    There was a reason our Forefathers put in "separation of church and state."
    You folks INCITE HATE CRIMES AND SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE!
    We do not need to turn our country into Iran and you people, Rush Limbaugh, etc. would love to lead all your loyal followers down that path!
    Shame on you for not being CHRISTIAN and SUPPORTING the
    Hate Crimes Bill!!!
    Elaine Wells

  • Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:12 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Daniel Paul »Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:24 pm In some ways I'm hoping the hate crimes law does pass so we can turn in people like Alockslee's for the hate which spews from page after page. I guess he simply views us through his own behavior. ----------------------------------------------------------- In response: Looks like you don't like the same treatment you dish out. My posts are in exactly the same format as those who are trying to force conversion on the rest of us. Don't like what you read? Then change from your hatred based ideology and prove it by posting from a real Christian perspective instead of the bigoted approach you continually push. After you have undone all the damage you have committed along with the others with you then I won't need to comment because there won't be a need to speak out against it. With the vast amounts of people leaving the evangelical hate base it shouldn't be that much longer before the restoration of America can begin. It will just need finishing up on their closure and then the real True Christians will be able exist sans the fascists pretending to be Christians like the fundies and evangelicals are. Remember nothing in the Matthew Sheppard Act interferes with speech so passage of it won't affect my posting, what it will do is to help prosecute those who carry out their hatred in physical acts against others. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth fundies fear!! TFR hide

  • Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show FullGospel »Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:40 am What amazes me is the propaganda around Shepard. Shepard's killers, in their first interview since their convictions, tell "20/20's" Elizabeth Vargas that money and drugs motivated their actions that night, not hatred of gays. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1 This bill, if anything, should prevent violence against those involved in the sale and purchase of drugs, but it clearly is not. It's a propaganda piece meant to further a sinful agenda. --------------------------------------------------------- In Response: NOTICE IT IS an interview AFTER Conviction, as they completely changed their story from what they had done and said PRIOR to Conviction!!! They had actually picked up Matthew Sheppard and lured him to go with them and then BRAGGED About what they did and the heinous act they planned out. So, fundamentalist/evangelicals are against crime and especially hate crimes. So are hate crimes against LGBT people a "Family Value"?? It must be as Dobson and others are whining about it. Again with the activist judges LOL here we go again! Hey folks judes interpret the law, they don't legislate! Congress is free to change any law that is interpreted by the courts. The real problem is fear from fundie pulpit puppets worrying about inciting people to carry out their hatred of the LBGT community and that they will have to actively work to prevent the acts, something they should have been doing all along. The clergy will not be stopped from spreading their hatred, so what are they worried about? Nothing in the Act says they can't preach. Nothing in the act says fundies can't remain bigots. Funny isn't it, that so many fundies are so upset that they won't be able to get away with a slap on the wrist for killing LBGT people any longer. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ The full story is here TFR hide

  • Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show The simple breakdown of the Act can be seen here: http://www.matthewshepard.org/site/DocServer/HRC-LLEHCPA-One-Pager1-23-07.pdf?docID=461 So where are the supporting links to source material for those against it? http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ fundies fear this blog TFR hide

  • Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:40 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show RevShnorrRocks »Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:09 am : 0 : 0 Flag Many cults forbid thoughtcrimes, as thoughtcrimes interfere with brainwashing. ---------------------------------------------------------- In response: So that is the reason why the fundies and evangelicals are constantly bringing up the notion of thought police, as it interferes with their brain washing of the minions within their groups! Ironic isn't it that you are among those who proselytize the fundie agenda and don't recognize the very basis of their ideology entails mind control and brainwashing no wonder so many like you are completely clueless on what is going on. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ The blog fundies fear! TFR hide

  • Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show People are waking up to reality and not buying the proselytizing any longer. You can't force people to accept being told things that go directly in opposition to what is provable and expect those thinking individuals to simply allow their entire thinking conscious brain to be turned off and then be brainwashed into some fantasy based ideology that doesn't make any sense nor gives a person following it any room to form their own opinions outside what they are being told to believe. Thinking people aren't going to simply be mind controlled and accept the ideology of evangelicals and fundamentalists any longer and they are leaving. Time to wake up and make sure the door doesn't hit you on the way out!! http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear this blog TFR hide

  • Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:38 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show The way to frustrate the flaggers is to save your comments and simply re-post them eventually the issue will be addressed and you will not be censored. A discussion includes both words that you may or may not agree with but as long as it is supported with the true facts there shouldn't be a problem. the problem is simply that those who flag the post want to prevent people who write responses they can't handle since it makes them reflect on their own failings. Often it causes them to recognize that they hold to ideology that they can't reconcile with logic and/or reality especially posts from people who cover the entire issue and make people realize the whole truth is being kept from those involved in fundamentalist/evangelical circles and that the whole truth is in direct conflict with what they are told to believe. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ The whole truth TFR hide

  • Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Well if the fundies and evangelicals weren't encouraging the hatred towards the LBGT community resulting in attacks on them then what difference would there be in their sermons when the legislation is passed? It certainly seems if they aren't the cause of the hatred, then it shouldn't make any difference what so ever if the law is passed, since those preachers claim to be innocent of encouraging the criminal attacks and if not then they wouldn't need to change a thing. But since they are so against the legislation they might be worried that they can't continue to rail against folks and have to tell the attendees to refrain from any actions that would be hurtful, harmful, and/or violent and that would be having to act like oh Christians and that would be a serious infringement on their freedom of religion now wouldn't it!! http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth, justice and the American Way! TFR hide

  • Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Once the hate crime legislation is passed then it will become very clear if anyone's religious preaching is going to be changed due to the new law. So, what happens when the only thing that is different is that less LBGT people are hurt or killed and the preachers have to tell people to act Christian and not hurt anyone. Wow what a concept,they can still say the same things but to cover themselves they just say don't hurt anyone and actually conduct yourselves like Christians instead of fascist thugs. Yep, that will be a totally devastating effect on the evangelical movement alright and just think the fundies will have to act like Christians too and not beat up those awful LBGT sinners as well. That sure will take out all the fun and leave them with nothing to do. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth and reality !! TFR hide

  • Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Fri May 08, 2009 4:55 pm First off, the purposed hate bill is a joke because Matthew Shepherd never was killed because he was gay. He was killed because he thought he might get some action and the thugs robbed him and killed him while they were high. ------------------------------------------------------------ In response: Lets see if I understand what you just posted. First you say Matthew Sheppard wasn't killed because he was gay, but he was killed because he was going to get some action, meaning GAY SEX off the two admitted killers who changed their story AFTER they first admitted to killing him AFTER luring him to go with them for GAY SEXbecause he was GAY and they convinced him to go have sex with them and they pretended to by gay too. OK, so now I understand, Sheppard wasn't killed for BEING GAY but for agreeing to engage in GAY activities and to be gay, he would have to engage in gay sex with others and that gets him killed. And the fact that his admitted killers told the police why they did it but later CHANGED their tune when they were told the enhancement of the sentence meant a longer, harsher sentence. But they stuck to the original story until they were told to change it so the gays couldn't use it to push the gay agenda, but the fundies and evangelicals have a problem with punishing those who would hurt people for just being LBGT, and to prevent it or put those away for longer terms is a problem because sinners should be killed, but those who follow the fundie ideology don't deserve to be punished for harming or killing LBGT persons. OK I got your point, no matter how wrong you are, you logic is typical fundie. Lacking in any possible link to reality and totally based upon a fantasy existence. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality and Truth is here. TFR hide

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Well if the fundies and evangelicals weren't encouraging the hatred towards the LBGT community resulting in attacks on them then what difference would there be in their sermons when the legislation is passed? It certainly seems if they aren't the cause of the hatred, then it shouldn't make any difference what so ever if the law is passed, since those preachers claim to be innocent of encouraging the criminal attacks and if not then they wouldn't need to change a thing. But since they are so against the legislation they might be worried that they can't continue to rail against folks and have to tell the attendees to refrain from any actions that would be hurtful, harmful, and/or violent and that would be having to act like oh Christians and that would be a serious infringement on their freedom of religion now wouldn't it!! http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth, justice and the American Way! TFR hide

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Once the hate crime legislation is passed then it will become very clear if anyone's religious preaching is going to be changed due to the new law. So, what happens when the only thing that is different is that less LBGT people are hurt or killed and the preachers have to tell people to act Christian and not hurt anyone. Wow what a concept,they can still say the same things but to cover themselves they just say don't hurt anyone and actually conduct yourselves like Christians instead of fascist thugs. Yep, that will be a totally devastating effect on the evangelical movement alright and just think the fundies will have to act like Christians too and not beat up those awful LBGT sinners as well. That sure will take out all the fun and leave them with nothing to do. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth and reality !! TFR hide

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Fri May 08, 2009 4:55 pm First off, the purposed hate bill is a joke because Matthew Shepherd never was killed because he was gay. He was killed because he thought he might get some action and the thugs robbed him and killed him while they were high. ------------------------------------------------------------ In response: Lets see if I understand what you just posted. First you say Matthew Sheppard wasn't killed because he was gay, but he was killed because he was going to get some action, meaning GAY SEX off the two admitted killers who changed their story AFTER they first admitted to killing him AFTER luring him to go with them for GAY SEXbecause he was GAY and they convinced him to go have sex with them and they pretended to by gay too. OK, so now I understand, Sheppard wasn't killed for BEING GAY but for agreeing to engage in GAY activities and to be gay, he would have to engage in gay sex with others and that gets him killed. And the fact that his admitted killers told the police why they did it but later CHANGED their tune when they were told the enhancement of the sentence meant a longer, harsher sentence. But they stuck to the original story until they were told to change it so the gays couldn't use it to push the gay agenda, but the fundies and evangelicals have a problem with punishing those who would hurt people for just being LBGT, and to prevent it or put those away for longer terms is a problem because sinners should be killed, but those who follow the fundie ideology don't deserve to be punished for harming or killing LBGT persons. OK I got your point, no matter how wrong you are, you logic is typical fundie. Lacking in any possible link to reality and totally based upon a fantasy existence. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality and Truth is here. TFR hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show FullGospel »Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:40 am What amazes me is the propaganda around Shepard. Shepard's killers, in their first interview since their convictions, tell "20/20's" Elizabeth Vargas that money and drugs motivated their actions that night, not hatred of gays. http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1 This bill, if anything, should prevent violence against those involved in the sale and purchase of drugs, but it clearly is not. It's a propaganda piece meant to further a sinful agenda. --------------------------------------------------------- In Response: NOTICE IT IS an interview AFTER conviction, as they completely changed their story from what they had done and said PRIOR to Conviction!!! They had actually picked up Matthew Sheppard and lured him to go with them and then BRAGGED About what they did and the heinous act they planned out. So, fundamentalist/evangelicals are against crime and especially hate crimes. So are hate crimes against LGBT people a "Family Value"?? It must be as Dobson and others are whining about it. Again with the activist judges LOL here we go again! Hey folks judes interpret the law, they don't legislate! Congress is free to change any law that is interpreted by the courts. The real problem is fear from fundie pulpit puppets worrying about inciting people to carry out their hatred of the LBGT community and that they will have to actively work to prevent the acts, something they should have been doing all along. The clergy will not be stopped from spreading their hatred, so what are they worried about? Nothing in the Act says they can't preach. Nothing in the act says fundies can't remain bigots. Funny isn't it, that so many fundies are so upset that they won't be able to get away with a slap on the wrist for killing LBGT people any longer. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ The full story is here TFR hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:48 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show The simple breakdown of the Act can be seen here: http://www.matthewshepard.org/site/DocServer/HRC-LLEHCPA-One-Pager1-23-07.pdf?docID=461 So where are the supporting links to source material for those against it? http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ fundies fear this blog TFR hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:35 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show To those who strive to censor my posts save your time and effort as I will not be censored by anyone, especially those who propagate hatred towards others and try to prevent the truth from being made known. It is quite easy really to re-post since I save every post for just such a situation and when I am censored I simply put the post back up. So, get used to seeing and dealing with the whole truth since it bothers you. the flagging junkie, so much I will make sure that you will always have my posts present to remind you that you won't prevent or stop me. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ lots of new entries that will inspire thinkers and infuriate fundies! TFR hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Well if the fundies and evangelicals weren't encouraging the hatred towards the LBGT community resulting in attacks on them then what difference would there be in their sermons when the legislation is passed? It certainly seems if they aren't the cause of the hatred, then it shouldn't make any difference what so ever if the law is passed, since those preachers claim to be innocent of encouraging the criminal attacks and if not then they wouldn't need to change a thing. But since they are so against the legislation they might be worried that they can't continue to rail against folks and have to tell the attendees to refrain from any actions that would be hurtful, harmful, and/or violent and that would be having to act like oh Christians and that would be a serious infringement on their freedom of religion now wouldn't it!! http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth, justice and the American Way! TFR hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:24 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Once the hate crime legislation is passed then it will become very clear if anyone's religious preaching is going to be changed due to the new law. So, what happens when the only thing that is different is that less LBGT people are hurt or killed and the preachers have to tell people to act Christian and not hurt anyone. Wow what a concept,they can still say the same things but to cover themselves they just say don't hurt anyone and actually conduct yourselves like Christians instead of fascist thugs. Yep, that will be a totally devastating effect on the evangelical movement alright and just think the fundies will have to act like Christians too and not beat up those awful LBGT sinners as well. That sure will take out all the fun and leave them with nothing to do. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth and reality !! hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:23 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Fri May 08, 2009 4:55 pm First off, the purposed hate bill is a joke because Matthew Shepherd never was killed because he was gay. He was killed because he thought he might get some action and the thugs robbed him and killed him while they were high. ------------------------------------------------------------ In response: Lets see if I understand what you just posted. First you say Matthew Sheppard wasn't killed because he was gay, but he was killed because he was going to get some action, meaning GAY SEX off the two admitted killers who changed their story AFTER they first admitted to killing him AFTER luring him to go with them for GAY SEX because he was GAY and they convinced him to go have sex with them and they pretended to by gay too. OK, so now I understand, Sheppard wasn't killed for BEING GAY but for agreeing to engage in GAY activities and to be gay, he would have to engage in gay sex with others and that gets him killed. And the fact that his admitted killers told the police why they did it but later CHANGED their tune when they were told the enhancement of the sentence meant a longer, harsher sentence. But they stuck to the original story until they were told to change it so the gays couldn't use it to push the gay agenda, but the fundies and evangelicals have a problem with punishing those who would hurt people for just being LBGT, and to prevent it or put those away for longer terms is a problem because sinners should be killed, but those who follow the fundie ideology don't deserve to be punished for harming or killing LBGT persons. OK I got your point, no matter how wrong you are, you logic is typical fundie. Lacking in any possible link to reality and totally based upon a fantasy existence. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality and Truth is here. TFR hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Well if the fundies and evangelicals weren't encouraging the hatred towards the LBGT community resulting in attacks on them then what difference would there be in their sermons when the legislation is passed? It certainly seems if they aren't the cause of the hatred, then it shouldn't make any difference what so ever if the law is passed, since those preachers claim to be innocent of encouraging the criminal attacks and if not then they wouldn't need to change a thing. But since they are so against the legislation they might be worried that they can't continue to rail against folks and have to tell the attendees to refrain from any actions that would be hurtful, harmful, and/or violent and that would be having to act like oh Christians and that would be a serious infringement on their freedom of religion now wouldn't it!! http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth, justice and the American Way! TFR hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:05 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Once the hate crime legislation is passed then it will become very clear if anyone's religious preaching is going to be changed due to the new law. So, what happens when the only thing that is different is that less LBGT people are hurt or killed and the preachers have to tell people to act Christian and not hurt anyone. Wow what a concept,they can still say the same things but to cover themselves they just say don't hurt anyone and actually conduct yourselves like Christians instead of fascist thugs. Yep, that will be a totally devastating effect on the evangelical movement alright and just think the fundies will have to act like Christians too and not beat up those awful LBGT sinners as well. That sure will take out all the fun and leave them with nothing to do. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth and reality !! hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:04 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Fri May 08, 2009 4:55 pm First off, the purposed hate bill is a joke because Matthew Shepherd never was killed because he was gay. He was killed because he thought he might get some action and the thugs robbed him and killed him while they were high. ------------------------------------------------------------ In response: Lets see if I understand what you just posted. First you say Matthew Sheppard wasn't killed because he was gay, but he was killed because he was going to get some action, meaning GAY SEX off the two admitted killers who changed their story AFTER they first admitted to killing him AFTER luring him to go with them for GAY SEX because he was GAY and they convinced him to go have sex with them and they pretended to by gay too. OK, so now I understand, Sheppard wasn't killed for BEING GAY but for agreeing to engage in GAY activities and to be gay, he would have to engage in gay sex with others and that gets him killed. And the fact that his admitted killers told the police why they did it but later CHANGED their tune when they were told the enhancement of the sentence meant a longer, harsher sentence. But they stuck to the original story until they were told to change it so the gays couldn't use it to push the gay agenda, but the fundies and evangelicals have a problem with punishing those who would hurt people for just being LBGT, and to prevent it or put those away for longer terms is a problem because sinners should be killed, but those who follow the fundie ideology don't deserve to be punished for harming or killing LBGT persons. OK I got your point, no matter how wrong you are, you logic is typical fundie. Lacking in any possible link to reality and totally based upon a fantasy existence. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality and Truth is here. TFR hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:57 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Christians warn of hate crime bill's effect on religious freedom."

    Funny that they're only concerned about religious freedom when it's their own!

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Well if the fundies and evangelicals weren't encouraging the hatred towards the LBGT community resulting in attacks on them then what difference would there be in their sermons when the legislation is passed? It certainly seems if they aren't the cause of the hatred, then it shouldn't make any difference what so ever if the law is passed, since those preachers claim to be innocent of encouraging the criminal attacks and if not then they wouldn't need to change a thing. But since they are so against the legislation they might be worried that they can't continue to rail against folks and have to tell the attendees to refrain from any actions that would be hurtful, harmful, and/or violent and that would be having to act like oh ..... Christians and that would be a serious infringement on their freedom of religion now wouldn't it!! http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth, justice and the American Way! TFR hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:46 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Once the hate crime legislation is passed then it will become very clear if anyone's religious preaching is going to be changed due to the new law. So, what happens when the only thing that is different is that less LBGT people are hurt or killed and the preachers have to tell people to act Christian and not hurt anyone. Wow what a concept,they can still say the same things but to cover themselves they just say don't hurt anyone and actually conduct yourselves like Christians instead of fascist thugs. Yep, that will be a totally devastating effect on the evangelical movement alright and just think the fundies will have to act like Christians too and not beat up those awful LBGT sinners as well. That sure will take out all the fun and leave them with nothing to do. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth and reality !! TFR hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:39 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show rolln4him »Fri May 08, 2009 4:55 pm First off, the purposed hate bill is a joke because Matthew Shepherd never was killed because he was gay. He was killed because he thought he might get some action and the thugs robbed him and killed him while they were high. ------------------------------------------------------------ In response: Lets see if I understand what you just posted. First you say Matthew Sheppard wasn't killed because he was gay, but he was killed because he was going to get some action, meaning GAY SEX off the two admitted killers who changed their story AFTER they first admitted to killing him AFTER luring him to go with them for GAY SEX because he was GAY and they convinced him to go have sex with them and they pretended to by gay too. OK, so now I understand, Sheppard wasn't killed for BEING GAY but for agreeing to engage in GAY activities and to be gay, he would have to engage in gay sex with others and that gets him killed. And the fact that his admitted killers told the police why they did it but later CHANGED their tune when they were told the enhancement of the sentence meant a longer, harsher sentence. But they stuck to the original story until they were told to change it so the gays couldn't use it to push the gay agenda, but the fundies and evangelicals have a problem with punishing those who would hurt people for just being LBGT, and to prevent it or put those away for longer terms is a problem because sinners should be killed, but those who follow the fundie ideology don't deserve to be punished for harming or killing LBGT persons. OK I got your point, no matter how wrong you are, you logic is typical fundie. Lacking in any possible link to reality and totally based upon a fantasy existence. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality and Truth is here. TFR hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    rolln4him »Fri May 08, 2009 4:55 pm
    First off, the purposed hate bill is a joke because Matthew Shepherd never was killed because he was gay. He was killed because he thought he might get some action and the thugs robbed him and killed him while they were high.
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    In response: Lets see if I understand what you just posted.

    First you say Matthew Sheppard wasn't killed because he was gay, but he was killed because he was going to get some action, meaning GAY SEX off the two admitted killers who changed their story AFTER they first admitted to killing him AFTER luring him to go with them for GAY SEX because he was GAY and they convinced him to go have sex with them and they pretended to by gay too.

    OK, so now I understand, Sheppard wasn't killed for BEING GAY but for agreeing to engage in GAY activities and to be gay, he would have to engage in gay sex with others and that gets him killed. And the fact that his admitted killers told the police why they did it but later CHANGED their tune when they were told the enhancement of the sentence meant a longer, harsher sentence. But they stuck to the original story until they were told to change it so the gays couldn't use it to push the gay agenda, but the fundies and evangelicals have a problem with punishing those who would hurt people for just being LBGT, and to prevent it or put those away for longer terms is a problem because sinners should be killed, but those who follow the fundie ideology don't deserve to be punished for harming or killing LBGT persons.

    OK I got you point, no matter how wrong you are, you logic is typical fundie. Lacking in any possible link to reality and totally based upon a fantasy existence.

    http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Reality and Truth is here.

    TFR

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:21 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show SqueakyWheel »Fri May 08, 2009 10:53 pm Have any Christian believers who believe in traditional marriage tried to participate in the homosexual activist forums? The hate & intolerance of a differing viewpoint is absolutely scary. The pro-same-sex marriage activists on the Christian Post are having a vacation here by comparison. --------------------------------------------------------- In response: A vacation? The reason the pro equal rights arguments are winning is simple, the anti-equality side doesn't have any valid points to support their position. The anti-equality position is based solely and entirely upon religious ideology and America has and always will be a secular land. Religion is allowed, but not the governing law of the land. where religious law was enforced the societies failed. Where secular laws exist then equality is there for all to exist without any one religious ideology being forced upon another. The major problem with the anti-equality faction is that they can't force everyone to believe the same thing as they do and to follow along in a fantasy based existence, it simply won't work as reality requires that you actually have to think and religion has always been the opiate of the masses and lead to wars, famine, torture, and death. In fact in countries that are basically atheist, they have the least amount of crime. They basically don't have the problems Americans do,no problems stemming from religious fanatics who kill doctors, kill LBGT people, even hurt them. Sounds like they are the ones who are more moral than those of the fundie/evangelical side who say one thing and do another like Ensign and Sanford, a couple of fundies who can't even follow the ideology of their own religion, let alone keep their word. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Truth is found here. TFR hide

  • Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:40 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Hate crime laws involving homosexuals , and freedom of religion have been accomodated in Canada with no problem whatsoever . There's no reason that it couldn't be in America , also. philo777 is correct .

  • Sat May 09, 2009 6:21 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    Save lives? Last time I looked, violence against others was already against the law regardless if the victim is morally perverted or not.

  • Sat May 09, 2009 2:18 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Yea, let's not put through this piece of legislation that could save lives because of the what ifs of some right wing nutjobs. Good idea!

  • Sat May 09, 2009 1:53 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Rollin is right on. Also, not a scare tactic. Look to Europe (BOs model); ministers are being arrested there and in Canada where these do-do legistlation have already been in effect for many years. And how about the Chaplains who cannot mention Jesus' name - what are they there for-to peel potatoes.

  • Fri May 08, 2009 11:53 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    More scare tactics by those who pretend to be Christian. No one buys the nonsense and they only harm their own cause, but let them have at it.

  • Fri May 08, 2009 11:49 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    I think there is less a concern for the preaching of the gospel, for nothing and no one can stop it from going forth, then there is a concern from conservative radio/media folks who fear their jobs are in danger.

  • Fri May 08, 2009 10:54 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Diana626
    in your comments you included...
    "professing Christian women parading around in underwear and nude,"

    Just want to remind everyone that Adam and Eve were not clothed until after they sinned. This was by God's design.

    God provided clothing to cover the shame. Today we call this fashion statements.

  • Fri May 08, 2009 10:53 pm Agree: 12   Disagree: 8

    Have any Christian believers who believe in traditional marriage tried to participate in the homosexual activist forums?

    The hate & intolerance of a differing viewpoint is absolutely scary.

    The pro-same-sex marriage activists on the Christian Post are having a vacation here by comparison.

    When one does not believe in God, the "scorched earth" approach is quite a common technique since there is seemingly no accountability.

    In reality, God is watching over the affairs of humans quite closely.

  • Fri May 08, 2009 9:35 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    "the tide is rapidly turning and within ten years gays will have all the same rights we have all enjoyed for years."

    I thought you were in America. My bad. Here in the States justice is to be blind and gives justice evenly. For any group to be a special class of people is socialism like in Russia or China so that unless you are part of the 'protected class' then you have little or no rights. This is what gays with the help of the socialists are seeking to do.

    In reality, the law is to be enforced evenly. The problem isn't with the lack of protective laws or the lack of rights. It's about political power for the gays to control those 'religious people' they hate so much for insisting the Bible is true and homosexuality is sin.

  • Fri May 08, 2009 9:00 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 6

    philo-

    I'm interested to know what your definition is "to incite violence against ones fellow man."?

  • Fri May 08, 2009 8:25 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 2

    The Lord is taking away all the "worldly" comforts that American Evangelicalism worship...maybe the true church can then stand for the entire Gospel and not just the sins these politically motivated hypocrites only speak of (these same hypocrites have nothing to say about pedophile priest, fornicating professing Christians, professing Christian women parading around in underwear and nude, adulterers in the pulpit and most hypocritical of all... the Episcopal churchs' ordained sodomite bishop).

  • Fri May 08, 2009 8:05 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 3

    It is not "religious freedom" to incite violence against ones fellow man. You seem to have a nearly limitless capacity for hate, but no matter, the tide is rapidly turning and within ten years gays will have all the same rights we have all enjoyed for years.

  • Fri May 08, 2009 4:56 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 7

    And so it begins....

  • Fri May 08, 2009 4:55 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 9

    First off, the purposed hate bill is a joke because Matthew Shepherd never was killed because he was gay. He was killed because he thought he might get some action and the thugs robbed him and killed him while they were high. Secondly, the gay agenda simply is looking for ways to intimidate people of faith into not speaking out on forums such as this. Enjoy the ride, because we won't be able to post anything negative against the homosexual agenda in the near future. What I mean is, you would be able to , but you may get jail time. Just remember to write me on occasion - that's: rolln4him at Federal Penitentiary for the Politically Incorrect!

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