Updated 07:54 am.EST, Mon November 23, 2009

Education|Sat, Jun. 27 2009 08:13 PM EDT

Diseases: Creations of God or 'Intelligent Evil'?

By Michelle A. Vu|and Kenneth Chan

This is part of a series of articles about the life and ideas of Dr. Ralph D. Winter, whose memorial service will be held this Sunday, June 28. Winter, the co-founder the U.S. Center for World Mission, passed away on May 20, 2009, after a long battle with cancer. He was 84.

PASADENA, Calif. – In recent years, Intelligent Design has made headlines in media outlets across the country.

The concept, which some have labeled “creationism in disguise,” asserts that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."

Those Christians who support Intelligent Design, not surprisingly, identify that “intelligent cause” to be God.

But some would argue that such an association would then suggest that God designed viruses, bacteria, parasites and other harmful and destructive organisms that do nothing but bring disease and suffering to God’s creation.

Either that or they were simply errors in creation or creations with harmful flaws.

It’s an age-old question on a microscopic level – did God create the “tiny evils” that spread disease and death throughout the world? If so, then isn’t He to blame for mankind’s suffering?

One of the most influential missiologists of the 20th Century didn’t think so.

Dr. Ralph D. Winter, who recently died at the age of 84, had argued that all violent forms of life – including all disease pathogens – are the works of an “intelligent evil power” that seeks to destroy God’s creation.

Evangelicals have recently stressed the inevitable intelligence and design in nature, but they have not, to my knowledge, attempted to suggest that there is evidence of any evil intelligence and design,” said Winter.

“Our theologies – that is, our formalized ways of attempting to think biblically – were hammered out during centuries that were totally blind to the microscopic world,” he added. “Our current theological literature, to my knowledge, does not seriously consider disease pathogens from a theological point of view – that is, are they the work of God or Satan?”

As a result, God has for far too long been taking the blame for Satan’s destructive works, Winter contended. And even Christians are confused over who is responsible for all the evil in the world, including disease and suffering. Some even claim that God wants diseases in the world.

“This is perhaps due to a theological tradition which does not understand demonic powers to have the ability to distort DNA,” he expressed.

But even as he battled multiple myeloma and lymphoma, Winter maintained that God is not responsible for the presence of evil but an intelligent evil is.

“I have a strong suspicion that these defects are often actually intelligently evil distortions by Satan not just things that went wrong accidentally,” Winter wrote in a past article, titled “Evolved or Involved?”

“Why? Because, simply, some of these are so cleverly destructive,” he added.

 “The same goes for destructive viruses, bacteria and especially parasites,” Winter continued. “These represent incredibly ingenious evil. They represent, I am thinking, the involvement of intelligence. They are not just unguided evolution or, much less, errors in creation.”

Winter had deeply contemplated the origins of diseases when he spent “every day, almost all day,” in the Intensive Care Unit beside his wife of nearly 50 years in the last month of her life.

It was during this last month as well as the five years he cared for his wife Roberta – who had multiple myeloma (bone marrow cancer) – that Winter was forced to confront the question of who was responsible for diseases.

In an article, Winter recalled watching the 9/11 terrorists on TV while at the hospital with Roberta. The terrorists on screen made him ponder about the two different kinds of terrorists that exist – big and very small. Just like the big, visible terrorists, people also need to fight against the violence caused by tiny outside invaders or “tiny global terrorists,” Winter thought.

“Does nutrition, exercise, banishing anxiety, etc. protect you or cure you of Malaria? Are our immune systems normally capable of defeating Malaria, Tuberculosis, Smallpox, Anthrax, etc?” Winter asked. “No, not normally.”

Diseases are caused by “attacking pathogens” which an immune system, no matter how healthy, cannot defeat, he concluded.

Therefore, Christians must not only pray for healing as if it is only up to God to cure diseases, Winter said. Instead, they should use scientific knowledge that God has allowed them to understand to actively work toward eradicating diseases by fighting the source of the problem.

Though Winter was very passionate regarding the issue of “intelligent evil,” his thoughts on them have largely gone unnoticed.

But those familiar with Winter’s work still hope even after his death that Winter will get people thinking about an issue that could be tackled if believers were aware of it – as he did at the 1974 Lausanne Congress for World Evangelization.

At the conference, convened by famed evangelist Billy Graham, Winter delivered a groundbreaking presentation, in which he introduced the term “hidden people groups” (later to become synonymous with unreached people groups) and used statistics to show that over two billion people still could not hear the Gospel in their own language and cultural setting.

At the time, many Christians had begun to assume that the work of missions was over as the Gospel had gone to every continent and nearly every country. But, as Winter showed in a paper circulated prior to the Lausanne conference, even if every Christian in the world shared the Gospel with their neighbors, only half the world would hear it.

“The awesome problem,” he wrote “is ... that most non-Christians in the world today are not culturally near neighbors of any Christians.”

To reach them, Winter added, will take “a special kind of ‘cross-cultural’ evangelism.”

In making his call, Winter “revolutionized what remains (even today) the true lifeblood of Evangelicals-missionary work overseas,” as Time Magazine had noted upon selecting Winter as one of “The 25 Most Influential Evangelicals in America.”

“If you’ve ever heard the terms ‘unreached people group,’ ‘frontier missions,’ or ‘10-40 window,’ it’s because of Ralph Winter’s catalytic effect on the Church to fully embrace the Great Commission,” prominent evangelical Chuck Colson noted after Winter’s death on May 20, 2009.

In the same way, the supporters of Winter’s more recent thoughts on “intelligent evil” hope it will make a splash in the Church.

“Our passivity in missions in this crucial area might seem to declare that our God doesn’t know or care or is unable to do anything about such things,” Winter had stated.

“To destroy the works of the devil is one major way in which our testimony of word and deed can glorify the true nature of our living God,” he said. “It is not an alternative to evangelism; it will make our evangelism more credible. It is to rectify our God’s damaged reputation.”

As a result of his belief in an “intelligent evil,” Winter founded the Roberta Winter Institute – named in honor of his first wife, who died in 2001 – to raise public and mission awareness of the need for new theology regarding diseases. The institute seeks to mobilize Christian scientists to fight the origins of diseases to defeat the works of Satan and in turn glorify God.

“Attacking the roots of disease is part and parcel of our basic mandate to glorify God in all the earth,” Winter asserted.

Winter died on May 20,2009, at his home in Pasadena after a long battle with cancer.

His memorial service will be held in the main sanctuary of Lake Avenue Congregation Church in Pasadena on Sunday, June 28 at 3:00 p.m.

Winter is survived by his second wife, Barbara, four daughters, 14 grandchildren, and one great-granddaughter.

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  • Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:17 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    God created everything and pronounced it good. It was for a time even after the fall, after Adams rebellion disease entered the world even that was not truly present until the time of the great flood then massive amounts of dead matter decay aided . Yes in a way devolution came into play the loss of good the corruption of good too the bad. Rather like the two choices presented one for life one for death. We are now the recipants of the destruction of gentic information which science calls eviloution, these deadly diseases grow stronger and change rapidly. Rather like a warning given long ago.

  • Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:26 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    H316, God had instructed them not to eat from that tree so even though they may not have known good from evil, they did know they were doing something God told them not to do, they knew they were disobeying God, they knew they were doing something wrong. A little child may not understand the concept of good and evil, but they do know when they are disobeying their parents and they know it is wrong.

  • Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:56 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Daniel Paul wants proof that Adam and Eve didn't know right from wrong before the Fall?? Have you ever READ the Bible?? Read Genesis 2 and 3, paying particularly close attention to Genesis 3:5-3:7. hide

  • Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:33 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    these hairs are hard to split from this take on the Christian theological perspective:

    E. coli in our guts, making vitamin K = God's Creation
    E. coli in our bloodstream, killing us = Satan's Corruption

    Are germs killing humans that different from say, a lion taking down a gazelle? Is the lion the work of Satan since it kills another animal? Or is a lion an agent of Satan if it kills a human?

    How about cancers arising from the human body? Are tumors caused by genetic mutations induced by Satan? Strange to my ears.

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:59 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Daniel Paul: So, what medical breakthroughs has your wife made? With all due respect, that's like saying you can engineer a better car because your son is a mechanic!

    Also, take a look at history, ever hear of a guy named Martin Luther? In addition to his 95 theses, he wrote a nice little treatise called "On the Jews and their Lies" which was a favorite of Hitler and the Nazis.

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:16 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "<< Parents have no history of cancer at all in their blood line. Why? Unrepentance >>

    Your joking right?? "

    Yeh...I'm going to have to side with jonzon on this one.

    Jhn 9:1-4 ¶ And as [Jesus] passed by, he saw a man which was blind from [his] birth.
    And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
    Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
    I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:11 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    "I see many similarities between anti-semitic Christians of Europe who persecuted Jews for centuries leading to the Holocaust and homosexuals vilified by Christians here on CP. "

    Then you are short sited with little understanding of what most of us are saying. Anti-semitic people hate the Jews AS PEOPLE. Our problem is with the sin and not the homosexual person. Our problem is with Satan using this sin to attack Christianity. Our problem is with the hatred spewed by the the pro-gay agenda when they don't get their way.

    Does that help clear things up for you?

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:08 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    "Or do you avoid doctors because they rely on medicine which has advanced dramatically since the advent of evolutionary theory. "

    My wife is a nurse. So...evolutionary theory has little to do with medical advance. Much of medical advance is due to trial and error. Nice try though....

  • Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:06 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    "They didn't know the difference between right and wrong. How were they supposed to know that there was anything _wrong_ with disobeying God? "

    Proof please???

    They knew it was wrong or they wouldn't have needed to be tempted from an outside source. People who have no sense of right or wrong need no ourside source for them to do wrong.

  • Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:38 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Is there a doctor (of medical science) in the house? Or do you avoid doctors because they rely on medicine which has advanced dramatically since the advent of evolutionary theory. Do you use medicines developed by this supposedly anti-Christian science? Or do you require your doctor to sign a statement declaring that he (dare we say or she) only uses remedies that are in no way tainted by evolutionary thought and research?

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Why would you call Adam and Eve "dumb?" They didn't know the difference between right and wrong. How were they supposed to know that there was anything _wrong_ with disobeying God? You should probably have thought this through a little better before your pastor told you everything you're supposed to think about the Adam and Eve story. hide

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:27 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show blueshoes << But if that dumb Eve and Adam would have listen to God and not eaten that Apple none of this would have happened.>> Yeah, and now we are paying the price ...........LOL hide

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:26 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show ietolive << Parents have no history of cancer at all in their blood line. Why? Unrepentance >> Your joking right?? 1. You obviously know nothing of the causes/origins of cancer. 2. Yeah, you got a real nice religion there. SO, your god is punishing the child to get at the parents- twisted. hide

  • Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:15 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show I see many similarities between anti-semitic Christians of Europe who persecuted Jews for centuries leading to the Holocaust and homosexuals vilified by Christians here on CP. hide

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:44 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show HyperionOverseer wrote: "your cancerous lifestyle cannot harm nor destroy me anymore." Oh. So you *are* a homosexual. Wow - I had not picked up on that yet. The most aggressive anti-gay people always turn out to be closeted homosexuals themselves. It is your self-hatred that drives your anger. You are struggling, and I empathize. Jesus gave us the answer: You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. Accept yourself for who you are. Until then you are not living within God's plan for your life. :-) hide

  • Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:29 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hman,
    When I was a kid, I loved Asimov's science fiction; he's one of the best. But when it comes to interpreting Genesis, I don't think he's the final authority on what that verse means. Better to compare it to the rest of the Bible:
    Rom 5:12 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned."
    Actually, all of 5:12-17 is about that event, contrasting the first Adam with Christ, the second Adam.

    1 Cor 15:21-22 "For since by a man {came} death, by a man also {came} the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive."

    So yes, death entered the world through Adam's sin in the Garden.

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:53 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show blueshoes "when Eve ate that apple and Adam did to it started death." Isaac Asimov points out that Genesis does not say this event caused death. It says "and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die." Instead of causing death, eating from the Tree of Knowledge caused the eater to *know* that he would die. Death was already the rule. hide

  • Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:45 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show HyperionOverseer wrote: "Your arrogance and selfishness to admit to your wrongs brings me out of my passive stance to drive the knife of truth deep within you." This is a murder threat. You teach CHILDREN in SUNDAY SCHOOL to commit murder. hide

  • DRJ »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Professorx, Are you a Calvinist? You said that God offers salvation to mankind so that he can 'heal a broken world'. The truth is God (in Christ) has provided salvation for mankind to heal the relationship between Him and mankind that was broken by Adam's sin. This world will NEVER be healed. That is the price for man's sin. This world will pass away when God makes all things new...a new heaven and a new earth to go with man's newly restored relationship with his Creator. Also, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, but the offer of salvation MUST be accepted by man in order to be honored by God. And that salvation is offered freely to every rational human ever created (the others are covered by mercy and grace). hide

  • Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:32 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    when Eve ate that apple and Adam did to it started death. So I would say it started there. And well, man has a brain, and we do as we please knowing that some things we drink, and smoke can cause death, And drugs too.
    But if that dumb Eve and Adam would have listen to God and not eaten that Apple none of this would have happened.

  • Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:18 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show ProfessorX, Have you read the CP blog by Allen Epling on Creation vs Evolution? I'd be interested in your take on the science in his posts (as well as his interpretation of the Bible. hide

  • Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:25 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show This is just a happy reminder. :-) You do not have to have faith in the Science-Fiction of the common Ancestry of all living things in order to perform scientific analysis, make contributions & discoveries, or find cures for diseases on Earth. Accepting the reality of God's existence also does not make a person fit for God's Heaven either. Ultimately we all must come to the place where we stop running from God. He loves you. We humans are the ones who lost dominion over this planet that God gave to us to maintain and he have all inherited a less than perfect situation. Virus, Bacteria, and various destructive pathogens are all connected to the curse placed on this earth derived from the fall of humanity. When Jesus came to this earth He became known as the "Last Adam" so that those who trust in him as Savior and Lord will have the opportunity to have restored fellowship with the one and only God and be used by Him to heal a broken world. Virus stay virus's - Bacteria stay bacteria, microbes stay microbes; they DO NOT eventually beget complex offspring such as amphibians. All the random chaotic powers of mutation cannot be used to justify the notion of common ancestry of all life forms, because there is NO evidence for Mutational advance whereby new beneficial structures are formed within organism descendants. The point is that if people are going to scoff at God's existence they would mock at His Judgments anyways, they would blaspheme His Holy name anyways, they would ridicule His Salvation plan with demonic zeal anyways, and they would find themselves having more in common with Lucifer Satan while striving to crucify Jesus Christ again on the earth by attacking Christ's Body (His People). Justice is always painful for any criminal who knows that he has broken the law and now lives life as fugitive striving to avoid judgment from the Highest Authority, hiding from the holiness of God. If that fugitive would only realize that Jesus Christ paid for his or her right standing before God, the ultimate Judge, (whom they must stand before alone to give an account of their life lived) they would become aware of God's Love. I realize that genuine salvation is a work that only God and God alone does from beginning to end. Just ask Him to help you from where you are at now for mercy. Please humbly ask Jesus Christ to be your Lord and Savior while there is still time. http://www.evolutionfacts.blogspot.com hide

  • Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:10 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show I agree with Believer. The only thing I would add is the example of the man born blind in John 9. Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him." hide

  • Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:07 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    id, while your example may be true is some incidents it is by no means the reason in all such incidents and in fact I was listening to the testimony of two Christian families who love the Lord and were serving Him when God allowed one couple to lose a very young child and the other couple to have a child with MD. The reality is that all disease and sickness are the consequence of our sins it does not mean that they are the direct result of either the one experiencing the disease or sickness or a direct result of the sins of the parents in these cases and while God may allow or even bring diesease and sickness upon us it does not mean He is the creator of the disease or sickness.

  • Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:24 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Virus', Bacteria, and various destructive pathogens are all connected to the curse placed on this earth derived from the fall of Man. Criterion, And yes I know a lot about science (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, and Earth Science). You do not have to have faith in the Science-Fiction of the common Ancestry of all living things in order to perform scientific analysis, make contributions & discoveries, or find cures for diseases. Virus' stays virus's - Bacteria stays bacteria, microbes stays microbes; they DO NOT eventually beget complex offspring like a toad. In all the random chaotic powers of mutation such feats cannot be demonstrated because there is NO evidence of Mutational advance whereby new beneficial structures are formed within an organisms descendents. The point is that if people are going to scoff at God's existence they will mock at His Judgments, Blaspheme His Holy name, ridicule His Salvation plan with demonic zeal, and will find them to have more in common with Lucifer Satan striving to crucify Jesus Christ again on the earth by attacking His Body (His People). Get the Facts http://www.evolutionfacts.blogspot.com hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:45 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Those who argue science do not know the truth. Take a child for example. Parents are 100% healthy, and the child dies from brain cancer. Parents have no history of cancer at all in their blood line. Why? Unrepentance. God said these diseases would come to those who trampled His commandments and visit their sins unto their children to the generations to come. Sin is the reason for cancer and diseases. There is no other reason and you can prove it through statistics. hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:34 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Blessings and curses come from the same hand. As it is written in the Book of Deuteronomy. hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    I don't believe Satan can "create" anything. He is not a creator, he is a creation. We do not create anything. We take what is already here and re-arrange it to fit our needs.

    Did not God bring plagues to Egypt and the tribes in the wilderness with Moses? David "stayed" a plague in Israel through offerings to God in 2Sam 24:25 and Elijah wrote this to King Jehoram in 2Chr 21:14-15 KJV "Behold, with a great plague will the LORD smite thy people, and thy children, and thy wives, and all thy goods: And thou shalt have great sickness by disease of thy bowels, until thy bowels fall out by reason of the sickness day by day." A loving God wiped out the entire planet except Noah's family and totally destroyed Sodom and Gomorra. Will He not bring the plagues in the book of Revelation?
    Some would argue that The Lord "allows" Satan to do such things and that is true, but the Scripture I chose doesn't say that. God is a loving God. I know this from personal experience. But He is also The Judge and He doesn't enjoy bringing His wrath. Isa 63:10 NKJV "But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, And He fought against them." Grieve: to cause to suffer: DISTRESS - also - to feel grief: SORROW. He will only let the sin go on for so long.

    I believe these are signs of the End Times. We are seeing diseases we have never seen before. HIV, incurable STD's and Cancers. Will Swine Flu be another? I don't know, but it's starting to look that way. If The Lord should allow me to get that ill, as a child of the Living God, then I know that there is a reason that I can not see and I have to trust that it will be for good, some how, in a way that I might never see until I reach Heaven. As Believers, we must trust His will and judgement. A friends mom died of Cancer and she did nothing but preach the love of Christ to anyone who would listen. ONLY A CHILD OF GOD WILL DO THAT! Stay close to Him, Brethren, in these days...

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show johnzon and u4, I'll answer both of you at once. Not every religion has benefitted mankind, but Christianity certainly has. (Some have gone against the teachings of Jesus and done despicable things in His name, but they were not true to what He taught.) Hospitals and hospices originated with Christians in the 4th century. As for Christians who made scientific advances, the list would include Newton, Linnaeus, Bacon, Pasteur, and many others. hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:16 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    The reality is evil and disease in our world are the consequences of the sins of all mankind beginning with the first sin of Adam and Eve.

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:14 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    johnzon, wrong question, the correct question is who gifted the men and women with the ability and brain power to design and develop these things? The correct answer is the God of the Bible naturally!!! Or another correct question would be who influenced people to use these things for wrong and evil? The correct answer is satan assisted by man's sin nature!!!

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:27 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Flagged as inappropriate. show God did it. No, Satan did it..... Dark Ages thinking, no wonder America is becoming a laughing stock around the world. Most other industrialized countries argue how to advance science. American's argue how to advance religion... Science has brought us cures for disease, birth control, medical technology, transportation, cell phones, computers, internet and an understanding of the nature of the structure of the universe. What has religion brought us? Please fill in____________ hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:24 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Satan takes God's wonderful creation & twists or distorts or perverts it! God made all things good. Satan is an evil entity always looking for an opportunity. hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:18 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show u4, "Excellent example to use when arguing that the religious ignore science." You mean religious people like Newton, Bacon, Pasteur, et al? hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:33 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Excellent example to use when arguing that the religious ignore science. hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:23 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show And here all along I thought that Manicheanism was a heresy. hide

  • artm »
    Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:18 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    in the beginning, In the garden of eden, God intended everything to be perfect, in short sin is the reason there is sickness and disease, rebellion against God is the cause of evil in this world.

    God is good, he is not the creator of the Ill's that plague this world.

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."

    THIS IS A COMPLETELY FALSE DEFINITION.

    Every true Creationist, (to include the folks at AIG) and I'm willing to bet all ID folks understand that natural selection is real and observable. I have to give the writer the benefit of the doubt and ASSUME that what he meant to describe was the "undirected process" of "goo to you through the zoo" evolution, or "molecules to man" evolution which is patently untenable.

    As for the virus question, the answers are out there. (see link) Let's hope people aren't asking these kinds of questions just to be divisive but because they truly seek answers.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i1/viruses.asp

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:54 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    Oh, real convenient.

    Call your god omnipotent and omniscient, then give him praise for all the good things and let him off the hook for all the bad.

    Totally ridiculous. You can't have it both ways.

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:53 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Did God make pathogenic viruses? by Jerry Bergman, Ph.D. http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i1/viruses.asp Summary A review of the structure, function, and role of viruses in ecology is presented. It is concluded that viruses are non-living entities, similar to seeds and spores whose functions include carrying genes from one plant or animal to another. Viruses are a part of a system that helps to produce the variety that is critical for life and, importantly, they carry resistance to disease from one organism to another. Most viruses live in their host without causing problems. Pathogenesis is evidence of something gone wrong, a mutation or the accidental movement of genes, and not evidence of a system deliberately designed to cause human disease and suffering. hide

  • Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Paul, I highly doubt Dr. Winter is presenting Satan as an equal to God. Sounds like he's just pointing to the fact that Satan can wreck havoc on a microscopic level as he does on an observable level.

    Furthermore, believing in unseen "intelligent designers" (emphasis on the "s") doesn't imply that there's more than one Master designer. Because aren't we all intelligent designers to some degree?

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:36 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    criterion » wrote, "...I laugh at religious extremists who know nothing about science and come up with ridiculous ideas to justify their idiotic religions."
    ---
    We both must have a sense of humour. I laugh at atheistic extremists, who in their arrogance, paradoxically assume the divine quality of omniscience to proclaim there is no God. Their arrogance does nothing to explain that if life developed naturally, what caused that natural development? Atheistic arrogance is to be expected though, for as the Apostle Paul stated, the god of this world (the devil) has blinded the minds of the unbelieving.

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:31 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 1

    Interesting comments from someone who is obviously less knowledgeable than the doctors and scientists. Supreme arrogance is seen for what it is criterion.

    When one must use the attitude and words of the uninformed and haters, it shows the argument to be weak.

    Grace and Peace,
    Jim

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:30 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    Dr. Winter's "intelligent evil power" sounds awfully similar to the duality of the Manichaean Heresy, or even Zoroastrianism, with co-equal gods of light and darkness. He obviously believes there is (or was) more than one "intelligent designer" which puts him at odds with the official policies of intelligent design creationism. And if he believed in more than one co-equal god, that makes him a heretic to all monotheists - his beliefs should be anathema to all believing Christians.

  • Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:39 pm Agree: 9   Disagree: 8

    "Diseases: Creations of God or Intelligent Evil?"

    All life developed naturally. Magic god fairies, good or evil, had nothing to do with it.

    I laugh at religious extremists who know nothing about science and come up with ridiculous ideas to justify their idiotic religions.

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Struggling to succeed in the Nashville music scene, talented singer/songwriter Parker James finds the competition fierce even deadly. A young woman's murder, industry corruption, a

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