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Opinion|Sun, Jun. 28 2009 04:53 PM EDT

Government Subsidy Devalues Marriage

By Ken Connor|Christian Post Guest Columnist

Instead of harnessing his leadership and influence to affirm and bolster marriage through public policy, President Obama is playing politics as usual. Instead of promoting policies that recognize marriage as a uniquely valuable social relationship between heterosexual adults, President Obama embraces the pop-culture vision that views various domestic social arrangements through a lens of value-neutrality. In spite of statistical proof that traditional marriage provides the strongest foundation for society, President Obama has chosen to contribute to America's social and cultural decline by capitulating to a boutique constituency that aims to advance a narrow political agenda at the expense of overall social health, welfare, and stability.

Ronald Reagan famously stated that government doesn't solve problems, it subsidizes them. When you promote a particular behavior with economic incentives, you can be certain that you will get more, not less, of that behavior. Do Americans really want our government subsidizing and promoting a lifestyle known to be risky and unstable? How will our society be impacted by this political maneuver? It is no secret for those who care to see it that the social and cultural fabric of our society is crumbling. Instead of subsidizing this sorry state of affairs, America's leaders should pursue policies that promote marriage and the traditional family arrangement as the critical institutions that both fact and experience have proven them to be.

___________________________________________________

Ken Connor is the Chairman of the Center for a Just Society in Washington, DC, the former President of the Family Research Council, and a nationally recognized trial lawyer.
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  • believer »
    Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:02 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    mike85, I sure that sexual sin was not limited to any specific sexual orientation and any form of sexual sin could be found prior to the fall of those empires and the same is still true today.

  • Mike85 »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:31 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer, but is that a cause that can be in any way traced back to gays? Nope, don't think so!

  • believer »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:56 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    scientist3, great post on the relationship of moral failings being a part of the downfall of ancient nations such as Rome and Greece. And I especially appreciated how you said that it was not the only cause but one of the causes.

  • scientist3 »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:26 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    To alockslee,
    Regarding your statement... "The stories within the Bible simply relate morality lessons and there is absolutely no way to determine if the stories really happened as written and/or if they weren't just invented by storytellers to illustrate a point."
    I suggest you read "The New Evidence that demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell, especially chapters 3& 4.
    Or FF Bruces book, "The New Testament Documents: Are they reliable".
    There's proof out there if your willing to be open-minded & search for it.

  • scientist3 »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    To donqard,
    Most of the scholars you mention would not disagree with my statement about moral decline being a major cause of decline. They all have access to the ancient Roman writers that say that moral decline was a major factor. Read Appian, Tacitus, Cassius Dio, Sallust, Cicero & many others that said the evaporation of ancient virtue lead to a loss of liberty (& eventually, a loss of the Western Roman Empire). Of course, it wasn't the only thing and you're treating it as if I said it was the only thing. Nothing stands alone. But it was a major reason. Also, my comment about Gibbons stands true. Many historians applaud his gathering of facts but disagree with his interpretation of those facts.
    Your listing of all of these historians divergent views as to why Rome fell,further distorts your viewpoint. While there is no SINGLE reason why Rome fell (and by this I mean the Western Roman Empire), moral decline is among the many reasons it fell (at least according to modern historians). Your saying that all of your above mentioned authors disagreed with my point is just not correct. The ancient Roman writers certainly believe moral decline was a major reason.
    Its also interesting to note that these ancient writers were no paragons of virtue. By our standards today, we would consider some of them depraved. Child abandonment & the killing of what a parent considered a deformed baby was legal. Adultery was rampant, especially with temple prostitution, women's rights were almost non-existent, pornography was available on lampshades & kitchen plates & it often pictured bestiality, etc. it was only the repealing of these laws under Emperor Valentinian (due to the influence from his pastor) in 374AD that these things became illegal. By then, Roman morality had sunk so low, it never recovered.

  • believer »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:43 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    al, racial prejudice after the Civil War was just as prevelant in the North as it was in the South and a person's denomination had little to do with it if anything, being raised catholic in Rochester NY and attending a catholic grade school, I still remember when I was in the 8th grade how a little 1st grade black child who attended our school was not allowed to eat with the rest of the students and had to eat with the nuns because he was black, the only black child in the school at that time. And I could share many more incidents that took place where there were no Southern Baptists at the time.

  • Alockslee »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:06 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show bkgirl »Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:06 am Bottom line Mike and Dongard, as Christians the bible is the first and last word...... Therefore, homosexuality is wrong. Our Government and country, stating in "God we Trust" cannot seriously believe by condoning and rewarding homosexuality "God will bless American". We will end up like Sodom and Gomorrah. ----------------------------------------------------------- In response: first of all not everyone has the same ideology as you hold. The Bible is is not the first and last word with the majority of America. Your ideology does not dictate the SECULAR LAWS OF AMERICA and will never be able to be upheld even if you and others who hold to the same views get some ridiculous laws passed it will be dealt with and eradicated as well it should be since religion does not dictate to the secular state nor is the continuing forcing of America to convert to your religious beliefs going to be allowed. Secondly, while you may believe whatever you choose to, remember the Bible was written by men and no proof exists to refute that. The stories within the Bible simply relate morality lessons and there is absolutely no way to determine if the stories really happened as written and/or if they weren't just invented by storytellers to illustrate a point. To make a blanket statement that America is going to be suddenly changed is ridiculous as we have had several years to watch and find out what effects same sex marriage has had on "religiously sanctioned marriage" and no effects that you are alluding to or any who take your position can prove with any valid secular proof. So that argument is not even viable to mention. You need to remember that trying to validate your religious beliefs by making statements on behalf of everyone is demonstrating ignorance and stupidity. Please be sure when making such ridiculous accusations in the future to first consider that you can actually prove your position with accurate valid secular proof and not just reiterate yet another out of context and misunderstood selected verses from one of the HUNDREDS of VERSIONS of the Bible that you make claims that is the first and last word, when you can't even reconcile the contradictions between the different versions let alone show any valid secular proof that any of the contents actually happened. That is the truth about the Bible, whether you choose to believe in it or not doesn't change the fact it is not and has never been verified as fact. As for "In god We Trust" that came about in the 1950's and as a result from the communist scare and McCarthyism. Please take the time to learn accurate history, no wonder fundies can't deal with reality, it seems that it is just to difficult to accept reality when you all live in a fantasy existence and then get so out of sorts when you have to recognize your responsibilites! http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Read the TRUTH HERE and relieve you worried mind from the fundie programming!! TFR hide

  • Alockslee »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show There are plenty of good reasons for promoting traditional marriage as the preferred family unit-at least, for those legitimately concerned with the social, cultural, and economic welfare of our society. After all, research conducted over the past several decades confirms what common sense has shown us for generations: By every possible measure-including overall satisfaction, the total well-being of children, physical safety, economic security, earning power, mental, physical, and emotional health, sexual satisfaction, and familial harmony-traditional marriage is far and away the domestic relationship that yields the best outcomes for individuals and for society. The bottom line is that traditional marriage provides essential benefits that no other domestic arrangement can match, not only for the adults involved, but for the most vulnerable among us-our children. --------------------------------------------------------- In response: Conner lets see the valid secular proof to back this up! You make blanket statements and then fail to put up a single valid secular bit of proof to support your agenda. Stop thumping and start producing the backup for this rhetoric, it is a non stop broken record of fundie ideology and it doesn't hold water. Lets see you publish secular studies to support your agenda, lets see you put up some secular material that actually proves your points. Babble on Conner as your membership dwindles and the people leave in droves away from your brand of ideology and embrace reality and beliefs that foster True Christian ideals and not hatred of others. ttp://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear the truth! TFR hide

  • Alockslee »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:43 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Conner is at it again and not satisfied with a small move toward equality. Conner's is a hypocrite and can't admit to being so. Where are his valid facts? When are these Conner types going to be responsible in their reporting and have to actually post the facts to back up their ridiculous claims? First the anti-same sex marriage opponents are fine with Civil Unions and full benefits to everyone and next any benefits that are given to LBGT people is complained about by the same folks who say they favor giving the benefits. Conner like the rest of the fundies can't stand for people to be free from his religious oppression, free from their forced compliance with his fascist beliefs and certainly doesn't have a clue what a True Christian is in favor of. Same sex benefits don't have a single thing to do with devaluing marriage. What he wants is to continue the second class status of people just like the southern baptists did following the Civil War and that didn't work then and won't work now. So to the Conners out there try to hold it together and realize that America is a secular society and not a fascist fundie ruled land so go away and let your all encompassing hatred ideology consume you and when the brainwashing is removed you might just be able to function in the real world as for now you aren't capable of functioning beyond your local brown shirt meetings. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear the truth! TFR hide

  • Gnosticgirl »
    Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:15 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    "Marriage represents the most fundamental relationship that can exist between two human beings."

    I could not agree more! What I do not agree with is how SSM is an attack on anyone else's marriage. In fact, I believe teaching others how to maintain strong monogomous faithful relationships and keeping them to it (i.e. holding them responsible) only strengthens the institution of marriage.

  • dongard »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:40 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    to scientist3, please consider these historians who disagree with you.

    Vegetius theorized, supported by the historian Arther Ferrill, that the Roman Empire declined as a result of an influx of Germanic mercenaries. Henri Pirenne maintains that the Empire continued up until the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, which disrupted Mediterranean trade routes. Pirenne's view on the continuity of the Roman Empire before and after the Germanic invasion was supported by recent historians such as François Masai, Karl-Ferdinand Werner and Peter Brown. John Bury gives a multi-factored theory for the Fall of the Western Empire that a number of contingencies arose simultaneously: economic decline, Germanic expansion, depopulation of Italy, dependency on Germanic foederati. Arnold J. Toynbee and James Burke argue that the Roman Empire had no budgetary system and thus wasted whatever resources they had available. The economy of the Empire was basically a Raubwirtschaft or plunder economy based on looting existing resources rather than producing anything new. Historian Michael Rostovtzeff and economist Ludwig von Mises both argued that unsound economic policies played a key role in the impoverishment and decay of the Roman Empire. William H. McNeill argues that the severe fall in population left the state apparatus and army too large for the population to support, leading to further economic and social decline that eventually killed the Western Empire. Peter Heather maintains the first real indication of trouble was the emergence in Iran of the Sassanid Persian empire. Tainter presents the view that for given technological levels there are implicit declining returns to complexity, in which systems deplete their resource base beyond levels that are ultimately sustainable. Bryan Ward-Perkins argues that the empire's demise was brought about through a vicious circle of political instability, foreign invasion, and reduced tax revenue. Adrian Goldsworthy sees the causes of the collapse of the Roman Empire not in any 'decadence', but in a combination of endless civil wars between factions of the Roman Army fighting for control of the Empire.

    None of these well known classical historians supports your thesis.

  • Mike85 »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:49 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Scientist, what judgments did I make in my comment? You posted from NARTH, a militantly anti-gay group that is not a member of any major medical association because their views are considered so unhealthy. You didn't prove anything.

  • scientist3 »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:38 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    To dongard,
    When did early Christianity ever practice warfare? While Gibbon's work is very respected, it is by no means held as completely accurate in every detail. And is this the same Gibbon's that says that Christianity was almost completely responsible for the greatest moral victory in human history (that being the stopping of the gladiatorial games)? And the same one that says that Christianity was the only major religion that rose women & childrens status to equally with men?
    Many, many other historians claim (and this is the general consensus among historians) that one of the major reasons Rome fell was because of moral laxity & perverseness. The same can be said for Greece. I suggest you get your facts straight.

    To mike85,
    You still didn't answer any of my questions. Your still doing what you despise about Christians and that is making judgments. You prove the point that nobody can live without making judgments. The real question is whose judgments are we willing to live by. History says that America's founding fathers said Christianity's. If you doubt this, read 'America's God & Country' by William Federer. Also, stop by www.leadershipu.com and type in homosexuality and read some interesting facts that will disprove what you're saying are 'facts'. Not that I think you'll do this as you have proven to be very one-sided in your thinking. But at least I have referred you to 'facts' whereas all you've done is spout opinions with no supporting resources at all.
    One last point...homosexuality was considered a 'disorder' for many years by the APA. In 1973, with no test reports or surveys t6o go on, and in a late night session, their board removed it from the 'disorder' list. Many members strenuously objected but by this time, these members had enough clout to stop it. Several of the original members who removed it have since changed their opinion and wanted it reinstated as a 'disorder'. So yes, mike85, it was (& is today by many APA members) considered a 'disorder'.

  • rj78 »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:16 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    If you are such a true, committed Christian then you would not cause division in the body of Christ.
    You like to pick on Chuck Colson. Colson sinned, sure, but he repented and God has cast his sins as far as the east is form the west. Colson is a new creation in Christ.
    Colson has done much with his new life. Prison inmates have learned from his testimony. What have you done, besides cause contention?
    Amd what stats are you using? Evangelical Christianity is growing fastest amng all segments of the faith in the world, especially the Assemblies of God.
    Christ said that the same measure with which you judge others will be poured into your lap. Be careful.

  • Alockslee »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:06 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show There are plenty of good reasons for promoting traditional marriage as the preferred family unit-at least, for those legitimately concerned with the social, cultural, and economic welfare of our society. After all, research conducted over the past several decades confirms what common sense has shown us for generations: By every possible measure-including overall satisfaction, the total well-being of children, physical safety, economic security, earning power, mental, physical, and emotional health, sexual satisfaction, and familial harmony-traditional marriage is far and away the domestic relationship that yields the best outcomes for individuals and for society. The bottom line is that traditional marriage provides essential benefits that no other domestic arrangement can match, not only for the adults involved, but for the most vulnerable among us-our children. --------------------------------------------------------- In response: Conner lets see the valid secular proof to back this up! You make blanket statements and then fail to put up a single valid secular bit of proof to support your agenda. Stop thumping and start producing the backup for this rhetoric, it is a non stop broken record of fundie ideology and it doesn't hold water. Lets see you publish secular studies to support your agenda, lets see you put up some secular material that actually proves your points. Babble on Conner as your membership dwindles and the people leave in droves away from your brand of ideology and embrace reality and beliefs that foster True Christian ideals and not hatred of others. ttp://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear the truth! TFR hide

  • Alockslee »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:55 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Conner is at it again and not satisfied with a small move toward equality. Conner's is a hypocrite and can't admit to being so. Where are his valid facts? When are these Conner types going to be responsible in their reporting and have to actually post the facts to back up their ridiculous claims? First the anti-same sex marriage opponents are fine with Civil Unions and full benefits to everyone and next any benefits that are given to LBGT people is complained about by the same folks who say they favor giving the benefits. Conner like the rest of the fundies can't stand for people to be free from his religious oppression, free from their forced compliance with his fascist beliefs and certainly doesn't have a clue what a True Christian is in favor of. Same sex benefits don't have a single thing to do with devaluing marriage. What he wants is to continue the second class status of people just like the southern baptists did following the Civil War and that didn't work then and won't work now. So to the Conners out there try to hold it together and realize that America is a secular society and not a fascist fundie ruled land so go away and let your all encompassing hatred ideology consume you and when the brainwashing is removed you might just be able to function in the real world as for now you aren't capable of functioning beyond your local brown shirt meetings. http://alockslee.blogspot.com/ Fundies fear the truth! TFR hide

  • Mike85 »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:54 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    bkgirl, is sexuality between a husband and wife wrong if it is not done specifically for the purpose of creating children? Can a husband and wife use a condom?

  • bkgirl »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:06 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    Bottom line Mike and Dongard, as Christians the bible is the first and last word and in the bible all marriages and relationships that are glorified in God's eyes are of man and woman. God said be fruitful and multiply, man and man nor woman and woman can reproduce, Onan was despised in God's eyes for practicing withdrawal and not reproducing as God said. God created sexual activity as a way to bring about new life to the world. Therefore, homosexuality is wrong. Our Government and country, stating in "God we Trust" cannot seriously believe by condoning and rewarding homosexuality "God will bless American". We will end up like Sodom and Gomorrah.

  • Mike85 »
    Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:53 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 2

    Scientist, I most certainly am trying to point out the hypocrisy of those who claim to be be Christian while condemning everyone around them. There is a line between conservatives and liberals, and its nice that we have a president who is not only concerned with one part of his constituency. He is everyone's president, so he is trying his best to be inclusive. As for gay marriage nor harming society, there are no signs of it harming society in any way. True, there are parents throwing a fit because their children were read a book about a gay couple, but that doesn't hurt the child in any way. You can argue that it teaches them sexual deviancy, but studies have shown children of gay parents have no negative effects as they grow up. The idea that homosexuality is sexually deviant isn't fact, it is opinion. That being said, there have been no negative impacts from gay marriage to date, and I have yet to hear an argument as to what lies in our society's future as a result of gay marriage (other than that people will start marrying their animals, but I have yet to hear of a single case where someone has come forward and asked for that because their state or country allows gay marriage, not to mention I can't imagine a goat reading a vow or signing a marriage license.)

  • dongard »
    Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:06 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    to scientist3 as a historian, i agree that ones facts should be backed with proof. therefore you now must back up with verifiable sources that Greece and Rome collapsed because of sexual deviancy. Perhaps you might care to start by explaining why Edward Gibbon's seminal and widely respected "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" blames Christianity as a major reason for Rome's decline. "Gibbon's blasphemous chapters excoriated the church for "supplanting in an unnecessarily destructive way the great culture that preceded it" and for "the outrage of [practicing] religious intolerance and warfare"

  • scientist3 »
    Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:44 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    To Mike85,
    Always trying to catch the 'christian' in their own hypocrisy, aren't you? You are certainly blinded by your biases, Mike85. Connor is pointing out that Obama is trying to walk the non-existent line of appeasing most people who support traditional marriage (and disagree with gay marriage) and the few who support gay marriage. The 'press' should be pointing this out but because of their own biases, they're not.
    You are also making value judgments (which you accuse Christians of doing) by saying that gay marriage is just as beneficial to society as straight marriage. Prove it! Show me historical examples. Back up your assertions with facts. As for your assertion that where gay marriage is legal, society hasn't disintegrated, this is laughable. Its only been legal for a very few years in the US. Even in other countries, its only been legal for a short time. If, however, you look at history, you will find a lot of examples where sexual deviancy has led to a culture's demise. Greece & Rome come to mind, among others.

  • Mike85 »
    Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:20 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    What an ignorant bunch of lies Mr. Connor feels compelled to spew! President Obama is not trying to buy anyone off, he is trying to be a bipartisan president, and he is doing is very good job of it. Offering same sex partners domestic partnership benefits at the federal level most certainly does not elevate them to the status of marriage. That is a laughable assertion at best. Additionally, the study referenced by Mr. Connor gives evidence to the importance of marriage, but says NOTHING about "traditional marriage" v. gay marriage. It speaks specifically to the commitment of couples as a fundamental building block of society. Gay committed relationships are just as valid and positive for a society as a straight committed relationship. Look at any state or country where gay marriage is legal. There has been no societal breakdown as a result, which makes me wonder where Mr. Connor draws his ideas from. As a Christian, you'd think he'd be above lying to try and make a point.

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