Updated 03:46 pm.EST, Mon November 23, 2009

Society|Fri, Aug. 07 2009 04:59 PM EDT

Maine Gay Marriage Supporters, Opponents Agree to Civil Campaigns

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

Supporters on both sides of the gay marriage debate in Maine have pledged to conduct civil campaigns in the months leading up to the November election.

"We are pleased that your campaign has finally responded to our long-standing call for both sides of this issue to conduct an honest, civil and respectful campaign. We are pleased you have accepted our challenge," said leaders of the conservative Stand for Marriage Maine.

Last week, Stand for Marriage submitted more than the required signatures to the Secretary of State's office for a chance to toss out the state's same-sex marriage law. The state legislature legalized marriage for gay and lesbian couples in May.

Seeking to take the issue to the ballot where the people, not the politicians, can vote, traditional marriage supporters submitted 100,000 signatures for a people's veto referendum.

Expecting the signatures to be certified, Jesse Connolly, campaign manager for NO on 1/Protect Maine Equality, called his opponents to agree to a fair and respectful campaign.

"Maine has a longstanding tradition of campaigns that do not engage in mudslinging, lies, distortions and the politics of division," Connolly, who has so far collected 60,000 "No on 1" pledges, said in a statement Thursday. "Maine voters expect us to take the high road, avoid poisonous attacks, and make our case based on fact and principle. Today, NO on 1 pledged to abide by that high standard, and we invite our opponents to join us and deliver the kind of campaign that Maine voters want and deserve."

Connolly faxed his request to Frank Schubert of Shubert Flint Public Affairs, who led the successful Proposition 8 campaign to overturn same-sex marriage in California, as well as Marc Mutty, the public affairs director for the Roman Catholic Diocese of Maine.

In response, Stand for Marriage Maine – of which both Schubert and the Catholic diocese are a part of – applauded Connolly's commitment to "uphold the right of every qualified voter to free and equal participation in the election process."

Marc R. Mutty and Bob Emrich of Stand for Marriage noted that just months ago when the state legislature was approving the same-sex marriage bill, gay marriage supporters including Equality Maine were making "extraordinary efforts ... to prevent Maine voters from having any say on this issue whatsoever."

"This is quite a change of direction," they stated.

While agreeing with the pledge, Stand for Marriage has asked its opponents to further agree to at least one public debate; that no volunteer, contributor or staff member will be harassed due to their participation in the campaign; that no property will be destroyed; and that churches on both sides of the issue will be dealt with respectfully.

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  • Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show It appears that Yahweh was tired of the annual homosexual Decadence Parade in New Orleans, and maybe that is why Hurricane Katrina occurred--something to ponder over. hide

  • Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "On August 30, 2005 Hurricane Katrina made landfall near Buras, Louisiana with 125 mph (205 km/h) winds, as a strong Category 3 storm. However, as it had only just weakened from Category 4 strength and the radius of maximum winds was large, it is possible that sustained winds of Category 4 strength briefly impacted extreme southeastern Louisiana. Although the storm surge to the east of the path of the eye in Mississippi was higher, a very significant surge affected the Louisiana coast. " Hurricane Katrina occurred before the annual gay celebration--I wonder if there is a correlation? "The Decadence Parade in the historic French Quarter in New Orleans, La., Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005. The Decadence Parade is an annual gay celebration event." hide

  • Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show It appears to be a correlation with the rise of homosexuality and terrible weather. We have young people stating that they are homosexuals, why, because of the Media and society making it as though this lifestyle is normal. Now, they are all thinking that they were born that way. It is amazing that when the ELCA voted to allow homosexual bishops to have partners, a tornado came and destroyed things at their center. My aunt told me that in Atlanta just last week, the city had a homosexual event, and now the rain just seems like it will not stop, before hurricane katrina occurred, I think three days later there was supposed to be a homosexual event. There were more fires when the courts in California allowed same-sex marriages, I think 800 fires. I thank Yahweh for having a remnant of Bible believers and Bible followers in California; they voted against it. I know that come next June 2010, I will be a fasting and praying sister, because that month is designated for the homosexuals, and I just pray that Yahweh has mercy on us all. hide

  • Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Job 37 5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. 6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. 7 He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work. 8 Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places. 9 Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north. 10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened. 11 Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud: 12 And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth. 13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy. 14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. hide

  • Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show It appears that Yahweh was tired of the annual homosexual Decadence Parade in New Orleans, and maybe that is why Hurricane Katrina occurred--something to ponder over. hide

  • Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "On August 30, 2005 Hurricane Katrina made landfall near Buras, Louisiana with 125 mph (205 km/h) winds, as a strong Category 3 storm. However, as it had only just weakened from Category 4 strength and the radius of maximum winds was large, it is possible that sustained winds of Category 4 strength briefly impacted extreme southeastern Louisiana. Although the storm surge to the east of the path of the eye in Mississippi was higher, a very significant surge affected the Louisiana coast. " Hurricane Katrina occurred before the annual gay celebration--I wonder if there is a correlation? "The Decadence Parade in the historic French Quarter in New Orleans, La., Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005. The Decadence Parade is an annual gay celebration event." hide

  • Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:28 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    The California court ruled last May, 2008 that same-sex couples enjoyed the same fundamental “right to marry” as opposite-sex couples.

    Is there a correlation with the fires caused by lightning?

    June 25, 2008 | Associated Press
    According to an article in the Associated Press about 8000 lightning strikes were responsible for starting the 800 recent wildfires in California. Many of these fires are still burning and firefighters from other states are rushing to California to help put them out.

  • Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:09 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Job 37 5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. 6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to the great rain of his strength. 7 He sealeth up the hand of every man; that all men may know his work. 8 Then the beasts go into dens, and remain in their places. 9 Out of the south cometh the whirlwind: and cold out of the north. 10 By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened. 11 Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud: 12 And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth. 13 He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy. 14 Hearken unto this, O Job: stand still, and consider the wondrous works of God. hide

  • Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show It appears to be a correlation with the rise of homosexuality and terrible weather. We have young people stating that they are homosexuals, why, because of the Media and society making it as though this lifestyle is normal. Now, they are all thinking that they were born that way. It is amazing that when the ELCA voted to allow homosexual bishops to have partners, a tornado came and destroyed things at their center. My aunt told me that in Atlanta just last week, the city had a homosexual event, and now the rain just seems like it will not stop, before hurricane katrina occurred, I think three days later there was supposed to be a homosexual event. There were more fires when the courts in California allowed same-sex marriages, I think 800 fires. I thank Yahweh for having a remnant of Bible believers and Bible followers in California; they voted against it. I know that come next June 2010, I will be a fasting and praying sister, because that month is designated for the homosexuals, and I just pray that Yahweh has mercy on us all. hide

  • Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:57 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    How the APA removed homosexuality from its Manual of Mental Disorders in 1973
    http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/IsHomosexualityaMentalDisorder.htm

    Report Shows Gay Activist Influence on Mental Health Organizations
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/feb/06020902.html

    How the Mental Health Associations Misrepresent Science
    http://www.narth.com/docs/TheTrojanCouchSatinover.pdf

    Facts About HOmosexuality
    http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/facts_about_homosexuality.html

    APA 'ignoring the science' on homosexual reparative therapy
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/Culture/Default.aspx?id=634346

    APA Sexual Orientation and Therapy Task Force Report: An Analysis
    http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090806/apa-sexual-orientation-and-therapy-task-force-report-an-analysis/index.html

    It's the ENDGAME, and as the Radical Feminist/Homosexual Alliance sees the majority unexpectedly beginning to wake up, they're panicking to get all their secret agenda's ultimate goals set into law.
    Since the 1970's they've kept themselves disguised as ordinary womens groups and family groups, while increasing their numbers and infiltrating society's most important institutions - from the bottom (all our schools) to the top (EU, UN and the WH).
    Their power, despite being less than 1% of the population, is a testament to their deviousness and their patient planning.
    It's the Endgame and they've almost won everything they always wanted. But suddenly some of the majority are waking up and are not afraid of all the shouting name-calling tactics that the RFHA has used on the public since the 1970's.
    It's time we all stand up against the RFHA and all the atheists ruining our country - and not back down as I'm sure they'll urge us to.

    TGF
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:30 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Would all the people who are flagging posts because they disagree with them, please stop or leave?

    RevShnorrRocks said,

    "To all flagger(s):

    I've been assuming that all here post in good faith. Assuming good faith means that absent any communication of what was found inappropriate, I'm required to assume someone accidentally flagged me.

    If you don't wish to point out specific instances of inappropriateness it would be most helpful if you would simply repost my comment as a quote from me, with the specific instances of whatever you find inappropriate edited out.

    If you find a post inappropriate but don't want to post a response please consider ignoring the post rather than flagging it. This would keep it from popping up as the very first comment that people see and there wouldn't be a proliferation of "Flagged as inappropriate" messages to draw even more attention to the post. Finally it wouldn't keep the topic on the "most comments" list."

    I agree with this person. Only posts that are completely "inappropriate" for a Christian website should be flagged.
    Flagged as inappropriate doesn't mean Flagged as disagreeable.

    TGF

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:30 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    I'll repost this flagged comment for our Christian members.

    When you're involved in some place, it sometimes isn't as apparent to you as it should be how much the environment has gradually decayed. (This is how the western world has decayed since the 1970's, without most people noticing just how bad.)
    Christian newcomers arrive to the place you've been in for some time, and they are shocked how unchristian this place is and wonder what you are doing here.

    We are told to not be a part of the world, but not to take ourselves out of the world. We are to let our light shine.

    With unbelievers, I believe God has clear instructions on how true Christians are to handle them and their questions. With those who are argumentative about what we preach, we are to give them a couple of warnings, Then if they persist in their perverted arguments, we are to turn away from such ones.
    If we don't, we grieve and risk losing God's Holy Spirit which guides us. If we continuously disobey God in this matter, we certainly and needlessly place ourselves in a spiritually dangerous position.
    Is that God's Word or not?

    I ask you brothers these three questions,

    However solid you think you are in your faith, are you putting your spirituality in danger by continuously engaging with someone who is repeatedly arguing with your scriptural teaching and is obviously a Hater of God and His Good Teachings?

    Are there any scriptures that clearly tell us what God's Word is regarding what we are counselled to do by God when dealing with unbelievers who oppose God's Word we are sharing with them and repeatedly argue against us over the same issues?

    Are there any scriptures that clearly tell us the danger we are putting ourselves in by not following God's Will when dealing with unrepentant and rebellious unbelievers?

    Brothers, let us consider these questions for a moment and let God's Holy Spirit guide us to a solution that finds us obedient to God's Good Counsel.

    TGF

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:23 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Someone who sleeps in his mother's basement in her pink nightie keeps flagging this, so I'll just keep reposting it. -------------------------------------------------------------- When you're involved in some place, it sometimes isn't as apparent to you as it should be how much the environment has gradually decayed. (This is how the western world has decayed since the 1970's, without most people noticing just how bad.) Christian newcomers arrive to the place you've been in for some time, and they are shocked how unchristian this place is and wonder what you are doing here. We are told to not be a part of the world, but not to take ourselves out of the world. We are to let our light shine. With unbelievers, I believe God has clear instructions on how true Christians are to handle them and their questions. With those who are argumentative about what we preach, we are to give them a couple of warnings, Then if they persist in their perverted arguments, we are to turn away from such ones. If we don't, we grieve and risk losing God's Holy Spirit which guides us. If we continuously disobey God in this matter, we certainly and needlessly place ourselves in a spiritually dangerous position. Is that God's Word or not? I ask you brothers these three questions, However solid you think you are in your faith, are you putting your spirituality in danger by continuously engaging with someone who is repeatedly arguing with your scriptural teaching and is obviously a Hater of God and His Good Teachings? Are there any scriptures that clearly tell us what God's Word is regarding what we are counselled to do by God when dealing with unbelievers who oppose God's Word we are sharing with them and repeatedly argue against us over the same issues? Are there any scriptures that clearly tell us the danger we are putting ourselves in by not following God's Will when dealing with unrepentant and rebellious unbelievers? Brothers, let us consider these questions for a moment and let God's Holy Spirit guide us to a solution that finds us obedient to God's Good Counsel. TGF The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches. hide

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:42 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Not sure everyone has seen this post, and we want all brothers to have a chance to consider it before we turn the page. So we're going to post this a few more times where different brothers are speaking on fresh topics before we move on. We trust we have your approval. -------------------------------------------------------------- When you're involved in some place, it sometimes isn't as apparent to you as it should be how much the environment has gradually decayed. (This is how the western world has decayed since the 1970's, without most people noticing just how bad.) Christian newcomers arrive to the place you've been in for some time, and they are shocked how unchristian this place is and wonder what you are doing here. We are told to not be a part of the world, but not to take ourselves out of the world. We are to let our light shine. With unbelievers, I believe God has clear instructions on how true Christians are to handle them and their questions. With those who are argumentative about what we preach, we are to give them a couple of warnings, Then if they persist in their perverted arguments, we are to turn away from such ones. If we don't, we grieve and risk losing God's Holy Spirit which guides us. If we continuously disobey God in this matter, we certainly and needlessly place ourselves in a spiritually dangerous position. Is that God's Word or not? I ask you brothers these three questions, However solid you think you are in your faith, are you putting your spirituality in danger by continuously engaging with someone who is repeatedly arguing with your scriptural teaching and is obviously a Hater of God and His Good Teachings? Are there any scriptures that clearly tell us what God's Word is regarding what we are counselled to do by God when dealing with unbelievers who oppose God's Word we are sharing with them and repeatedly argue against us over the same issues? Are there any scriptures that clearly tell us the danger we are putting ourselves in by not following God's Will when dealing with unrepentant and rebellious unbelievers? Brothers, let us consider these questions for a moment and let God's Holy Spirit guide us to a solution that finds us obedient to God's Good Counsel. TGF The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches. hide

  • Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:51 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    God Bless Americans Who Waken Their Friends and Fight For Their Values (like these great people from Maine)

    Give this some thought and you may change your position.

    Rather than be close-minded, I think it's helpful to discuss this issue with as much information as possible. Whether you're for or against, these links should help fill in some important details everyone should know:

    Do you question the integrity of your countries' medical associations? Here's a very interesting link that tells the story behind why and how the American Psychiatric Association made its determination and removed homosexuality as a mental disorder from its Manual of Mental Disorders and other Sicknesses

    Link - http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/IsHomosexualityaMentalDisorder.htm

    How Activists Influence the Issue and the People involved

    Link - http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/feb/06020902.html

    Facts about Homosexuality (what you might not know)

    Link - http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/facts_about_homosexuality.html

    TGF

    The most loving thing you can do for your family is to pull them out of the public school system and keep them far away from apostate churches.

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:10 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Flagged as inappropriate. show God Bless Americans Who Waken Their Friends and Fight For Their Values (like these great people from Maine) Give this some thought and you may change your position. Rather than be close-minded, I think it's helpful to discuss this issue with as much information as possible. Whether you're for or against, these links should help fill in some important details everyone should know: Do you question the integrity of your countries' medical associations? Here's a very interesting link that tells the story behind why and how the American Psychiatric Association made its determination and removed homosexuality as a mental disorder from its Manual of Mental Disorders and other Sicknesses Link - http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/IsHomosexualityaMentalDisorder.htm How Activists Influence the Issue and the People involved Link - http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/feb/06020902.html Facts about Homosexuality (what you might not know) Link - http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/facts_about_homosexuality.html TGF hide

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:10 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    dan, plus I see you've still not answered a very simple question, does the priest forgive sin or does Christ through the priest forgive sin. Now it has to be one or the other so which is it. And please no more roman catholic propaganda, just a simple answer!

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:07 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    dan, you need to slow down with you roman catholic propaganda because I did not say a thing about people going see the house in Loreto, Italy! You know what is odd about that is I lived in Italy for 4 years and I had many Italian friends and a large majority of them were roman catholics and not one mentioned this house, they talked a lot about Rome and the vatican but not a peep about this house.

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:02 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    dan, God's ministry of reconciliation is given to every believer, it's called sharing God's plan of salvation not penance!

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:15 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    (If you want forgiveness of sins why not follow God's directives and go to confession in the way He instituted)


    I have confessed; directly to the Lord Jesus Christ . . .

    “But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Ephesians 2:13).

    “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7).

    “And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood” (Revelation 1:5).

    “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).


    Do not need to confess my sins to another sinner much less a priest who cannot cleanse himself of sin. In fact, the New Testament acknowledges only one priesthood; the priesthood of all believers which means we can approach our only mediator Jesus Christ directly. The Holy Spirit who dwells in the hearts of every true believer gives me all the grace I need.


    No daily sacrifice (mass) needed my friend; Jesus Christ gave his life once . . .

    “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself” (Hebrews 7:27).

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:06 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    Believer: "but realize he can not forgive your sins and if your a true believer you can go directly to God and confess your sins without the need of a priest."

    This is no different than the heresy St Augustine fought, Manacheism, or the early Church Arianism, Nestorianism; and also the reason why all of the Protestant churches are drifting away into the vast emptiness for what "they think" is Christianity, gay marriage, abortion, homosexuality is okay, living with someone outside of marriage is okay (after all they have a "committed relationship" Jesus was wrong because recent Protestant polls say He was)

    Lutherans began their demise in 1517 when they left the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which still guards Jesus' Deposit of Faith today [it was only a matter of time] They are peeling off one by one - Episcopaleans, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Methodists, ad infinitum.

    Yes, sir, Jesus' Church stands firm:
    (A short summary of Catholic Beliefs)
    Jesus is God and Saviour
    Our Lady, God's angels and Saints point to Jesus as God, and their lives should be emulated in the Communion of Saints
    Authority of Christ: authority: The Bible, Holy Tradition, the Creeds - Apostles and Nicene
    Pope as Vicar of Christ on earth (built upon the Rock - Peter
    The current Bishops (laying on of hands since Christ)
    Purgatory (a cleansing of souls so they may see the Beatific Vision (God in all His purity)
    7 Sacraments: Baptism, Confirmation, Holy Orders, the Holy Eucharist, Penance, Marriage, Extreme Unction
    Prolife (no abortion; no infanticide)
    No heterosexuality outside of the marriage bond
    No homosexuality
    The Corporal Works of Mercy
    The Spiritual Works of Mercy
    Seven Deadly Sins (Pride, Envy, Lust, Wrath, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth). Turning toward the good means developing virtue, that is a habitual and firm disposition to do good. The core virtues are divided into the Theological Virtues, which are the foundation of Christian moral activity (faith, hope, and love), and the Cardinal Virtues, virtues around which all others are grouped (Prudence, Justice, Temperance, Fortitude, and Knowledge).
    Catholics believe in salvation by grace alone, solely on account of the work of Christ. However, neither Catholics nor Orthodox accept the reformation concept of forensic justification or "justification by faith alone."
    Faith and works are necessary as James and Paul spoke to

    Sin entered the world through the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Original Sin is the privation of grace, inherited by all humans from Adam and Eve. Because of Christ's atoning death on the cross, we have the opportunity to have our sins forgiven, and this is not possible apart from God's grace.
    Original sin is healed by the Sacrament of Baptism

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    OnLine:
    "If you want God’s grace, why not simply ask Him for it?"

    If you want forgiveness of sins why not follow God's directives and go to confession in the way He instituted.

    I already receive God's grace through His seven Sacraments, especially receiving His Body and Blood each morning - the greatest privilege in the world today.

    A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace (of course Protestants don't need this so they pitched them)

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:31 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 6

    Believer: "visiting a house that has been purportedly transported to Israel by angels; come on now, do you really believe that these things can give you grace?"

    Ahh, people notice that Believer has changed his staunch view on the House of Loretto to "purportedly," and now SS'ing the topic to "grace." The Sacraments give "Grace." "An outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace," oops! but Believer has dumped them also.

    Again the poor guy lugging around such "weak faith" that he has to correct God (who Catholics believe is "all powerful and can do all things without Believer's permission).

    Catholics believe that when God says "...if you have the faith of a mustard seed you can move a mountain."

    But Believer because he does not have a faith this strong does not even believe God can move a mere "house." What does this say about Believer's faith...he is more like an "unbeliever."

    It is like Believer is saying, "No God. I know better than You, St Francis of Assisi, Our Lady, Constantine, and St. Louis IX, King of France, for you cannot do this without my permission. I, Believer, limit You. Gee, for what purpose would you move a house anyway? Duh! Oops! I forgot "Your ways are not my ways, nor are Your thoughts my thoughts." (thank God for that)

    Well, like Prophet (the Minimalist), I don't believe you don't have any Guardian Angels either. So wat kinda angels did you use for this project anyhow? And I don't believe in science also so don't keep telling me about the scientists that say the house is from the Holy Land. They lie, too. Only I am right.

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:04 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    PART I Believer: "I John 1:9 that if we confess our sins to Him He will forgive our sins and cleanse us of all the unrighteousness associated with that sin or sins and yet

    He does not mention the need of a priest whatsoever."

    This is where the false teaching of SS leads you. It leads you to "cherry-picking" i.e., looking around for a verse that appears to support you and then lead others into the false interpretation. To understand the Bible:

    a. It needs to be read as a whole "not verse picking."
    b. As a whole means both the New and the Old Testament since the NT is the fulfillment of the OT
    c. It needs to be read exactly as what is being said (unless it is an obvious parable) (not twisted into meaningless words [actually one of your fellow Protestants had it right on this site a while back when he said, "to know what a verse means - strip it down to its basics (no adverbs, no adjectives--just down to the subject and verb" {this guy is very intelligent}
    d. No sole verse in the Bible captures every thought and word each time and thinking it does - shows a deluge of ignorance, since "redundancy is not required."
    e. There is nothing in John quoted by you that excludes the need for a priest A FLAGRANT LOGIC 101 ERROR "the acceptance of a premise does NOT exclude its corollary
    f. You should return to school and take some Theology; a course in Latin might help but I think the declensions might be too tough for you to understand at your level

    "I John 1:9 that if we [confess] ... (this is what the Sacrament of Penance [Reconciliation] is all about "confession." ... our sins to Him (this IS in persona Christi)[perhaps you don't know it but Christ is God and thus forgives sins] which Mike85 understands with no sweat

    He will forgive our sins and cleanse us of all the unrighteousness associated with that sin or sins and yet

    He does not mention the need of a priest whatsoever."

    Why should he mention that what all Christians take for granted when they go to confession. Do you think the priest pops out of the confessional and says..."By the way you are going to confession to me and I AM A PRIEST," i.e., we all know this. So it would be stupid.
    This is what the Apostles do (DID)...hear people's sins based on the authority Jesus gave them ... as a part of their MINISTRY:

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 5

    PART II
    St. Paul mirrors the faith of the Apostolic Church when he writes: 'God hath given to US [St. Paul IS a priest/Bishop like the rest of the Apostles, and anyone they ordained] the ministry of reconciliation..." (II Cor. 5:18). [Reconciliation IS the Sacrament of Penance]

    (I notice "cherry-picking" has made you skip over the power TO FORGIVE SINS Jesus gave His first Bishops:

    God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23). (This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the Sacrament of Penance is and was.)

    Now just so you understand that all of bibles agree on Jesus words, here are quotes from even your own Protestant bible(s) [non-Roman Catholic (as you call it propaganda]:

    {THIS MIXTURE OF BIBLICAL VERSES FROM BOTH CATHOLIC AND PROTESTANT BIBLES EXPOSES YOU REPEATED LIE:"
    dan, once again you provide absolutely no valid biblical support that says anyone other than God has the ability to forgive sins..."

    New International Version:

    If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)

    "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:03 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    PART III
    International Standard Version (©2008)

    If you forgive people's sins, they are forgiven. If you retain people's sins, they are retained."

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

    Whenever you forgive sins, they are forgiven. Whenever you don't forgive them, they are not forgiven."

    King James Bible

    Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

  • Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    PART II Believer's Bible Verses (Scripture please)

    American King James Version

    Whosesoever sins you remit, they are remitted to them; and whosesoever sins you retain, they are retained.

    American Standard Version

    whosesoever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    Bible in Basic English

    Any to whom you give forgiveness, will be made free from their sins; and any from whom you keep back forgiveness, will still be in their sins.

    Douay-Rheims Bible

    Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

    Darby Bible Translation

    whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    English Revised Version

    whosesoever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    Webster's Bible Translation

    Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted to them; and whosesoever sins ye retain, they are retained.

    Weymouth New Testament

    If you remit the sins of any persons, they remain remitted to them. If you bind fast the sins of any, they remain bound."

    World English Bible

    Whoever's sins you forgive, they are forgiven them. Whoever's sins you retain, they have been retained."

    Young's Literal Translation [THIS ONE IS INTERESTING SINCE IT REAFFIRMS THE "BINDING AND LOOSING" POWERS JESUS GAVE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HE FOUNDED ON ST PETER AND THE APOSTLES

    if of any ye may loose the sins, they are loosed to them; if of any ye may retain, they have been retained.'

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 7

    Believer: Yah right--out of context Jesus (to his first Bishops) "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall retain they are retained." {this granting of authority is so direct there is no spin possible just like This IS MY Blood; This IS My Body.

    If Believer conducted his life in accord with how he twists Scripture, it would be like this:

    Believer and his wife visit Pittsburgh. So he asks directions to the airport from a policeman. The Policeman (Jesus) "Take Interstate 60 North to the airport exit. Make a right, and at the top of the ramp take a left. The Airport is just ahead."

    Believer's Interpretation of the policeman's directions:

    Believer's wife gets on I 60 N ... "But Believer stops her and says "What are you doing? You need to go downtown and get off at Rt 79 toward Washington Pa, get off at Bower Hill Road, go up the hill and then around, and down again until you hit the University of Pittsburgh. Than a quick left..." "Gee. Can't you understand clear directions?"

    Believer's wife complies and soon both are "lost completely" just as Believer is in Scripture.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:39 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Correction: should read: "from Israel" . . .

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:13 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    dan, once again you provide absolutely no valid biblical support that says anyone other than God has the ability to forgive sins, the best you can do is take His Word out of context to make it fit your false roman catholic view. And in the process you call God a liar since He states in I John 1:9 that if we confess our sins to Him He will forgive our sins and cleanse us of all the unrighteousness associated with that sin or sins and yet He does not mention the need of a priest whatsoever. The closest a person could come to confessing our sins to one another is in James, but there is no mention of that being for forgiveness of sins and it's not limited to priests. Once again if you choose to confess your sins to a priest that is your choice but realize he can not forgive your sins and if your a true believer you can go directly to God and confess your sins without the need of a priest. That's why Jesus went to the Cross so we could once again have direct access to God without having to go through a priest who was only allowed in the Holy of Holies on rare occasion but once Christ died the curtain was rent in two from top to bottom and now as a child of God we have direct access to God and the Throne of God 24/7.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:13 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 0

    dan,

    The mass system of works, ceremonies, and rituals that are manufactured by Romanism completely undermines the grace of God. Indulgences, visiting a house that has been purportedly transported to Israel by angels; come on now, do you really believe that these things can give you grace? If you want God’s grace, why not simply ask Him for it?

    “Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you” (Matthew 7:7).

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    "Believer, a priest acts in persona Christi..."

    This isn't going to help Believer; he does not understand Latin, Theology, History, Science - he only understand Scripture after putting his own "twists" to it; thus he is always in error. Logic 101 - When one begins with an "erroneous premise--SS all conclusions thereafter will be "erroneous." So he is trapped in heresy.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    "My understanding is the Catholic church uses priests and confession because when you say your confession out loud to another person, there is a very certain sense of acknowledgment and honesty that you might not feel saying them silently."

    This is a point but not the "reason" Jesus' Church uses priests and confession. The Church follows Jesus Commands and His commands are very direct on "how" we are to have our sins forgiven (see the many posted statement of Jesus to His first Bishops.)

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:51 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 4

    "if that is true then they don't need to go to a priest they can simply go directly to Christ to have their sins forgiven, but my sense is that dan does not agree with that and he actually believes priests have the ability to forgive and to not forgive sins."

    No we do not override God ... like Believer does. We follow Jesus commands, and he said to St Peter and His Apostles, "Whose sins you shall FORGIVE (this does not say go directly to MY Daddy) they are FORGIVEN them; whose sins you shall RETAIN, they are RETAINED." Sola Scriptura puts Believer at a disadvantage since he needs to change all meanings to conform to his pre-conceived erroneous beliefs (unlike the Gibbons family who admits their beliefs and very well be erroneous)

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:01 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    mike85, if that is true then they don't need to go to a priest they can simply go directly to Christ to have their sins forgiven, but my sense is that dan does not agree with that and he actually believes priests have the ability to forgive and to not forgive sins. My point is that if a person feels the need to go to a priest that's their call, but they don't need to and God alone can and does forgive our sins when we confess them directly to Him as I John 1:9 says.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:49 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Believer, a priest acts in persona Christi, so they are not the ones forgiving the sins, it is Christ who forgives sins. My understanding is the Catholic church uses priests and confession because when you say your confession out loud to another person, there is a very certain sense of acknowledgment and honesty that you might not feel saying them silently. That being said, many, many Catholics feel so awkward about the sacrament of Reconciliation that they never go, and they then feel they can't be forgiven of their sins any other way.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:01 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    dan, please get back to me when you can give a straight answer to very easy questions using valid biblical passages to support it. And please don't waste time with all your roman catholic rhetoric which rambles on and on and says absolutely nothing.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:01 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 3

    Believer: "And if a priest can forgive sin can he also choose to not forgive someone of their sin, regardless of the spiritual condition of the person."

    Again, Believer would never make a theologian, stuck in his own SS errors.

    "And if a priest can forgive sin can he also choose to not forgive someone of their sin..." THIS IS TRUE ...JESUS--FORGIVE ... RETAIN MEANS he needs to make a judgment (and the only way this can be done is by hearing the sins)

    "regardless of the spiritual condition of the person."THIS IS FALSE ... the person needs:

    1- Contrition for Sin:

    "A broken and contrite heart, O God, you will never despise" (Ps.51:18). "Peter wept bitterly" (Mt.26:75).

    Having discovered your feelings, tell Jesus you are sorry, with three parts:
    - O my God, I am sorry for all my sins.
    - I will try to do better.
    - Please help me with your grace. Amen.

    2- Firm Purpose of Amendment:

    Real sorrow always includes a resolution to try not to it again, and to avoid the occasions of sin.
    I confess to Almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned through my own fault. With my thoughts, with my words, with what I have done, and what I have failed to. I trust in your everlasting love and mercy, my God, by the Blood of Jesus. I repent, and I want to amend completely my live, never to sin anymore. Help me Jesus, with the power of the Holy Spirit, for the glory of God the Father. I praise you and I love you. Thank you, my Lord and my God. Amen.

    3- Penance:

    I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (1Cor.9:27).

    I adore you, my God. Let me be like Jesus, a lamb of God, to help people to confess their sins, and to be filled with your everlasting love. Thank you my God, the King of Kings. Amen.

    One cannot say to someone who you have just robbed of $ 5 I am sorry for that but I am keeping the $5 (one must make restitution) The law recognized this also because the law is derived from moral law








    to be sorry for the sin or sins

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:48 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    "evidenced by my belief that he was actually born in the United States"

    I can produce my birth certificate in about 5 minutes; so why can't he instead of entering all these courts with his lawyers to stop these "so called frivolous law suits at the cost of $ 2mm.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:45 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    Believer: Can a priest forgive sin or does Christ forgive sin through the priest?

    "Yes (6 times now) back to a course in remedial reading for you) "in persona Christi."

    Read Jesus words and power given to St Peter, the Apostles, and their successors:

    "Whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them; whose sins you shall RETAIN they are RETAINED."

    Once again though, Believer corrects Jesus and says He "cannot do such a thing," for my limited mind can't handle it. No Jesus, Sola Scripura tells me that Jesus meant for future people that Christians should take a bus downtown. This is what this verse means.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:38 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    PART I Believer: Again the "limiter" who is bound by his defective human mind... "Oh, thou of little faith." You would think that he would learn from the lessons of Jesus (our Founder) but he has not, John 20:25 "I will never believe it without probing the nail prints in his hands, without putting my finger in the nail marks and my hand into his side." Thus Thomas the Doubter has been modernized to Believer the Doubter...

    So far from truth in his SS Scripture readings that even his founders (Luther, Zwingli, etc.) are closer even to Popes than he is. If the ocean were truth Believer would be adrift paddling around in a desert. He corrects Jesus' every word and believes nothing ...it is not dan who has a strong enough faith who believes my Good and loving Saviour can do what He wants without Believer's permission (which is the arrogance that annoys him) Millions believe in the House of Loreto including Kings, scientists, Holy Roman Emperors, Saints, and thousands of true believers (only Believer, sad to say, follows a finite mind, as he does not believe in history which also debunks WWII, WWI in his "pick & choose" world of his minute mind):

    "Over the past several centuries, people from all parts of the world have traveled to this shrine to pray and seek Our Lady's help. Thousands of miracles attributed to Our Lady have been recorded at Loreto.

    The tradition and history of the Holy House goes back to Apostolic times. From the earliest days of Christianity, the little house and the grotto which formed one side of the Holy House have been a place of worship and pilgrimage. Shortly after the year 313, Constantine the Great had a large Basilica built over the Holy House of Nazareth. The Holy House and the grotto formed part of the crypt of the new church. About the year 1090, the Saracens invaded the Holy Land, plundering and destroying many of the shrines sacred to Christians. One of these was the Basilica in Nazareth, but the Holy House and grotto in the crypt were left intact.

    When St. Francis of Assisi visited the Holy Land (1219-1220) he prayed at the Holy House. St. Louis IX, King of France, also visited and received Holy Communion in the shrine when he was leading a crusade to liberate the Holy Land from the Moslems. Another Basilica was built during the 12th century to protect the Holy House and offer ample room for pilgrims. This second Basilica was destroyed when the Moslems overpowered the crusaders in 1263. Again the Holy House escaped destruction and was left intact under the ruins of the Basilica. Finally, in 1291 the crusaders were completely driven out of the Holy Land and it was at this point in history that the Holy House disappeared from Palestine and made its appearance in what is now known as present day Croatia, where a most important shrine was erected, Our Lady of Trsat (Tersatto in Italian pronunciation).

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:38 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    (PART II – Believer the Doubter II)
    Tradition tells us that on May 10, 1291, the Holy House of Nazareth was raised from its foundations in Nazareth and transported by Angels across the Mediterranean from Palestine to Dalmatia to the small town of Tersatto. The pastor of the Church of St. George, at Tersatto, Alexander Georgevich, was puzzled by the sudden presence of what looked like a tiny church and prayed for enlightenment. His prayers were answered when the Blessed Virgin appeared to him in sleep and told him that this was indeed the Holy House of Nazareth where the Annunciation took place and it was brought here through the power of God. To confirm what she was telling him, he would be restored to health. At that moment, Father Alexander was cured of an illness which he had suffered for many years.

    With the Moslems taking over Albania in 1294 and the possibility of profanation, the House disappeared from Tersatto. According to some shepherds, it was seen on December 10, 1294, being borne aloft by Angels across the Adriatic sea and came to rest in a wooded area four miles from Recanati, Italy. The news spread fast and thousands came to examine the tiny house which resembled a church. The House became a place of pilgrimage and many miracles took place there. Bandits from the nearby wooded area began to plague the pilgrims, so the House was borne to a safer spot a short distance away. But the spot where the House was finally to rest was still not settled since the two brothers who owned the land were quarreling. The House was moved a third time to the site it now occupies. The brothers became reconciled as soon as the House settled in its final location. Incidentally, wherever it landed, the Holy House rested miraculously on the ground, without a foundation.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:37 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    PART III (Believer the Doubter II)
    Once again miracles attended the presence of the House, and the townspeople sent a deputation of men to Tersatto and then to Nazareth to determine for certain the origin of the Holy House. Sixteen men, all reliable citizens, took with them measurements and full details of the House, and after several months arrived back with the report that in their opinion, the House had really come from Nazareth.

    Over the centuries, many Pontiffs have testified to the authenticity of the Holy House and the miracles that have been attributed to it. The devotion and respect of the Pontiffs for the Holy House may be gathered from the numerous indulgences granted to those visiting the Holy House. The first were granted by Pope Benedict XII, then followed by Urban VI who granted certain indulgences for the feast of the Nativity of the Blessed Virgin Mary. These indulgences were confirmed by Popes Boniface IX and Martin V: An enumeration of the many popes over the centuries that have shown special interest and support of the authenticity of Loreto by their words and actions in Part 4.

    . . . Wherever there is a genuine shrine of Our Lady or miraculous image, you may be sure there will be many miracles. This is particularly true at the Holy House, where there have been so many they no longer are recorded. In fact, three popes were miraculously cured at the shrine of the Holy House of Loreto.

    More than two thousand persons who have been canonized, beatified or made venerable by the Church have visited the Holy House. St. Therese of Lisieux made a momentous pilgrimage before entering the Carmelites, to which she alludes at length in her autobiography. St. Alphonsus Liguori, St. Frances Cabrini, Cardinal Newman, St. John Neumann, and St. Francis de Sales, to name but a few, have visited the Holy House. See Part 3.

    St. Francis of Assisi in the early years of the 13th century established a monastery at Sirolo, north of Recanati. To a group of puzzled friars, Francis foretold that before the close of that century, a sanctuary would be built near there which would be more renowned than Rome or Jerusalem and that the faithful would come from all over the world to visit this Holy Sanctuary. This prophecy proved true when the Holy House of Loreto arrived on Dec. 10, 1294.

  • Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:05 am Agree: 0   Disagree: 2

    "I haven't been wearing a tinfoil hat, so I've probably been subjected to communist-islamo-fascist-atheistic mind control, as evidenced by my belief that he was actually born in the United States. So, you'll need to remind me, what, exactly, are the rights that Obama has taken away from me?"

    You'll have to tell us ...with your every post you've been moaning about your rights that have been taken away.

  • Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:21 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "This link should help fill in some important details everyone should know:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manson_Family"

    :)

  • Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:35 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Gibbons Family: "Rather than be close-minded, I think it's helpful to discuss this issue with as much information as possible". Is that why you spammed the exact same message to four different places? Gibbons Family: "Whether you're for or against, these links should help fill in some important details everyone should know..." This link should help fill in some important details everyone should know: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manson_Family hide

  • Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:13 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Give this some thought and you may change your position.

    Rather than be close-minded, I think it's helpful to discuss this issue with as much information as possible.
    Whether you're for or against, these links should help fill in some important details everyone should know:

    Do you question the integrity of your countries' medical associations?
    Here's a very interesting link that tells the story behind why and how the American Psychiatric Association made its determination and removed homosexuality as a mental disorder from its Manual of Mental Disorders and other Sicknesses

    Link - http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/IsHomosexualityaMentalDisorder.htm

    How Activists Influence the Issue and the People involved

    Link - http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2006/feb/06020902.html

    Facts about Homosexuality (what you might not know)

    Link - http://www.ucmpage.org/articles/facts_about_homosexuality.html

    TGF

  • Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:13 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 0

    danpat says "Write a letter to Obama and tell him you want your rights back"

    I haven't been wearing a tinfoil hat, so I've probably been subjected to communist-islamo-fascist-atheistic mind control, as evidenced by my belief that he was actually born in the United States. So, you'll need to remind me, what, exactly, are the rights that Obama has taken away from me?

  • Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:00 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    dan, I'm not limiting God at all, but rather it is you who are limiting true believers access to God by insisting they must go through priests, rituals, and sacraments to reach God.

  • Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:58 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 0

    dan, so when you can't find any valid scripture to support your view resort to ridiculing and belittling those that do, but this should be no surprise coming from a person who believes angels moved Mary's house in Nazareth to Loreto, Italy. Plus, you still have not answered to very simple questions. Can a priest forgive sin or does Christ forgive sin through the priest? And if a priest can forgive sin can he also choose to not forgive someone of their sin, regardless of the spiritual condition of the person. Two very simple questions which require two very simple to the point answers without all your roman catholic rhetoric, please!

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