Updated 11:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Society|Sat, Oct. 31 2009 08:40 AM EDT

Mainers Near Widely Watched Vote on Gay Marriage

By Nathan Black|Christian Post Reporter

In the days leading up to the highly publicized vote on a Maine gay marriage law, citizens are being called to respect one another's First Amendment rights.

"While the issue of same-sex marriage stirs lots of passions on both sides of the debate, one thing that should be clear is that citizens should feel free to support groups that share and advance their views without fear of recrimination enabled by government," said Sean Parnell, president of the Center for Competitive Politics, in a statement Friday.

His statement comes as a complaint was filed against a high school guidance counselor and licensed social worker, requesting that his license to practice social work be stripped away.

The complaint was filed by a co-worker after Donald Mendell appeared in a television ad supporting traditional marriage in Maine.

"It is ironic that those who claim tolerance as their highest value prove themselves to be so intolerant that they would go so far as to threaten a father’s career and put his family’s future at risk," said Marc Mutty, chairman of Stand for Marriage Maine. "This latest attack highlights the true agenda of those who demand that marriage be redefined."

Alliance Defense attorney Austin R. Nimocks said the definition of marriage is not the only thing at issue in the upcoming vote. Free speech, freedom of conscience, and religious liberty are also in danger, he noted.

On Nov. 3, Maine voters will go to the ballot to decide on whether to repeal or uphold a law allowing same-sex marriage. The measure was passed by the state Legislature and signed by Gov. John Baldacci in May.

Before the law could go into effect in September, opponents submitted enough signatures for a "people's veto," subjecting the measure to repeal.

Following California's recent marriage battle, in which the majority of voters supported traditional marriage, all eyes have shifted to Maine which could be the first state to affirm same-sex marriage with a popular vote.

Marriage for same-sex couples is legal in five other states but the measures were all passed by the respective state high courts or Legislatures, not by popular vote.

"We have people who want to make a legal commitment, take on responsibilities, who want to be a family," said Mary Bonauto of Protect Maine Equality in a televised debate Wednesday. "Why would anyone in Maine want to stand in the way of those families and their happiness?"

Brian Souchet of Stand for Marriage Maine, meanwhile, argued, "No special interest group should be able to hijack the institution of marriage to suit their own needs. In my opinion, that's exactly what we have going on here."

Millions of dollars have been raised by both campaigns opposing and supporting the ballot measure, Question One. Polls have indicated that the battle is currently in dead heat.

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  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:30 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hi Mike, agreed. Same here: end of the term and grades were due. I hope you are able to recover this weekend.

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:10 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    inept administrator

    Don't those two words go together way to often?

    I had an expulsion hearing on Thurs for one of "my" kids. As it turned out the Principal denied the child "not yet idenfied" status because he had been evaluated for a 504. As you know that would require an evaluation under 300.300-311 and not 104.35. It kind of went down hill for the guy from there.

    I tried to call him and talk with him. The parent has signed a permission form that was on file at the district office....

    After the hearing (which is yet to rule), the principal was VERY nice and polite to the parent and had a school psychologist there to set up an expidited evaluation. The kid is ADHD and failing. The 504 eval was a joke. 1 paragraph of minutes. It was a "we had the meeting and the answer is no" meetings.

    It's nice to not have to throw these guys under the bus...they jump in front if it....

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:04 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    DP, full moon on Monday after the kids were high on Halloween candy! Aack! Kids were just off the wall and I'm sick and tired of my inept administrator. To top it off, my room got trashed when I was at a meeting today. TGIF!!!!!!

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:59 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    Hey Mike. My wife works for a hospital. She says it's the full moon syndrome....

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:58 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "and this week has been BRUTAL at school"

    How so? What happened? Anything specific or just luckier than usual with the luck of the draw?

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:24 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 0

    Agreed Mathetes, and my apologies if I was a bit less civil than typical. I truly am heartbroken about this loss in Maine, and this week has been BRUTAL at school, so I'm definitely not operating at 100%. Whatever, water under the bridge, let's move forward. :) Happy Friday!

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:48 pm Agree: 4   Disagree: 0

    "We can always count on our minions. They're not afraid of you or your keyboard,"

    Great post! Gibbons, I had no idea you had a sense of humor! Yay!

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:04 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Mike,

    I said you were whining because there is an immense difference between someone telling you "gee, you seem angry" and someone telling me (and others) "you must be a homosexual, and you're frustrated because you're fighting it." If you cannot see that, you need to borrow my glasses or walk a mile in my shoes.

    By the way, the Hitler comparison - that's always classy.

    Fine. You want to say we're both hypocrites, ok. It was not my intention to make a blanket statement; to be honest, it was aimed at you alone. I've come to expect exaggerated rhetoric from Homosexual Man; I guess I expected more from you because you have been easier to talk to and more civil. I guess we're all pretty frustrated right now. Mike, I know you're disappointed with the outcome of the election, and part of me feels your pain; I would rather you be happy for the right reasons. But in my heart I believe that we cannot turn our backs on what God has said, approving what He has said is wrong.
    Rom 14:22 - "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves."

    So Mike, I am sorry if I appeared to be a hypocrite. I want to see more civil discussion, and I commit myself to that end. If we can't talk to each other decently, then we won't get the other side to understand how we feel or why we feel it. I hope you want the same and will do what you can to make it happen.

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:57 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Mathetes, you initially called me out and said I wasn't speaking out against anyone when they suggested things like people are closet homosexuals - fine, that was valid and I haven't been. However, I then called you out because YOU continued to make blanket statements "I guess there is no end to the double standards of the homosexual crew" so you said I was being immature and say I am whining. Its interesting that because I called you out for making blanket statements after you claimed you worked towards civility I started getting insults from you. Do you not see YOUR hypocrisy in these matters?

    Gibbons, Hitler had people he called supporters too. Anytime you can post that you think what is happening to gays in Uganda is a good thing and have people say "oh yes, I agree too!" we have a BIG problem on our hands.

  • Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:31 am Agree: 6   Disagree: 3

    Mike85,

    I'm very angry at your comment, "As for the person who flagged, I'm assuming it was Weekender, Gibbons, or one of their little minions. YOU'RE PATHETIC."

    And I want you to know our minions are NOT little.

    It's all true. When we saw the original comment (below), "Mathetes...You don't say anything when people like Weekender or Gibbons say absurdly rude and off base things.", we were so angry and upset. How could you be so mean we asked each other?

    We immediately decided that this was by far the worst thing you had ever said to someone else about us behind our backs. Weekenderman and I put the order out, and yes you're right, it was the minions. The minions rose up and hunted for that offensive post, and they found it. And they flagged it. They flagged it good.
    We can always count on our minions. They're not afraid of you or your keyboard.

    If your minions were half the minions our minions are, you'd probably call them ... supporters.

    TGF
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Christians should flag the most vile posters on sight and without further comment, rather than encouraging their disruptive behavior (ie. repeatedly posting obscene comments and flagging fellow Christians), by constantly arguing with them over the same truths in God's Word whom they ridicule.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:25 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mike, why do you insult so much?

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Mike, I will try once more to help you see what is so hypocritical. Let's go back to your first post to me:

    Mike85 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3  Flag
    mathetes, I hardly think RC is throwing a tizzy, as much as you'd love to think so. Its funny how much evangelicals make up, for instance, people saying "gee Mike, you seem angry" when I call out their nonsense. Nope, not angry, just being honest :)
    ------------
    You accuse all evangelicals of making things up when someone said "you seem angry." But YOU DID THE SAME THING in your first sentence: "as much as you'd love to think so." You ascribed to me feelings I don't have. So if you're going to do that, quit whining when people do it to you. If you don't want them to do it to you, don't do it to others. Just treat others as you want to be treated. You may recognize that as Jesus' teaching normally referred to as the golden rule.

    Have a good night, Mike.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:49 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Mathetes, you're joking yourself. Simply by asking that question you know what your intent is. You can deny it all you want, you're playing silly games. It is you, my dear, who needs to grow up!

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:32 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Mike, you make me laugh:

    " If you fail to see that the nonsense goes both ways, which I certainly have never denied, then perhaps its not my maturity level we should be discussing."

    If you had read my post below, you'd remember I told you I have tried to stop the incivility when I've been online. You, on the other hand, just sit and watch and do nothing as pro-homosexual proponents falsely accuse folks you've been talking to for months. That's what irks me.

    "I highly doubt you have more important things to do. Chances are you were attempting to make me feel insignificant, which didn't happen."

    I have no reason to lie to you, Mike. I needed to get dinner ready before my wife got home, then I went to watch our soccer team play in the conference tournament. I'm not trying to make you feel anything. Do others often make you feel insignificant?

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:50 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    And you call me a hypocrite? Typical...

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:49 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    mike,
    you insult too much.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:33 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    As for the person who flagged, I'm assuming it was Weekender, Gibbons, or one of their little minions. YOU'RE PATHETIC.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:32 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    mathetes, I'm merely calling out your nonsense. If you fail to see that the nonsense goes both ways, which I certainly have never denied, then perhaps its not my maturity level we should be discussing. I highly doubt you have more important things to do. Chances are you were attempting to make me feel insignificant, which didn't happen. Kisses! :)

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:29 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    mikey has a history of being hypocritical. he does the same things that he accuses others of doing.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:21 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Mike,

    You have shown your maturity level too: "well... they did it first!" Great. You have a chance to improve the level of civility I this forum and you pass it up to say "they do it too." Good try. Thanks for playing. Please don't whine next time someone says "you seem angry." After what you cotinue to ignore from your side, that's insignificant.

    Bye. I have more important things to do.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:13 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Believer,

    Thanks, I had not recognized him. You're right, it's probably the same person. If it's not him, there's sure an uncanny resemblance between them.

    RC/mickeyc's twin,

    Your concern for children is touching. So what do you think my children would think about someone falsely accusing their father of being a homosexual? If you're so concerned about the children, grow up and stop making false accusations.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:57 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    rc, considering how much time you spend defending the rights of homosexuals it is blatantly apparent you are indeed worried about them, so based on your own view I guess that means you are a homosexual. And frankly I don't think any more or less of you as a person because of that. But as for the welfare of children who live in same-sex households, I'm still waiting for you to provide valid data showing how these children receive fewer legal rights and benefits than children in heterosexual homes!!

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:42 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Let me make this very clear. I am not nor will I ever be interested in what homosexuals or those who are pretending not to be homosexuals do. It is NOT something I care anything about. What I do care about is the fact that children are being deprived of married parents for the sole reason that bunch of people have some issue with their parents. I couldn't care less about the parents choices in partners, their race, their orientation, or their religion. Those are not the issue. The issue is clearly about the apathy that has been shown toward child welfare by those who support their own selfish agendas above that of children. Those of you who are so concerned about homosexuality, I suggest you get some kind of psychiatric therapy to help you over come your problems. hide

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:23 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    mathetes, there are plenty of double standards coming from your side as well, so you can stop the phony baloney comments.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:17 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    rc, so considering you worry quite a bit about homosexuals I guess that means that you are now admtting to being one!! I am not any more concerned about homosexuals than I am about heterosexuals who need to either repent of their sin and turn to Christ for salvation or if they are saved need to repent of their sin so God can use them to their fullest for His glory and work!!

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:13 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    mathetes, please keep in mind that as much as rc tries to deny it, he is quite probably the former mickeyc. He did the same thing, rather than stay focused on issues he goes to making false accusations and personal attacks against those posters who don't agree with his unbiblical points of view!!

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:59 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    mathetes there is little to discuss. No one needs any specific degree to see people fighting with their own problems. Your wishing to pretend otherwise won't change it. Heterosexual men DON"T spend time worrying about homosexuals.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:24 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    RC, let's just go ahead and parse your post for the fun of it. Let's see if what you said is true.

    "mathetes it was pointed out to me by several other posters as well as my reading of the posts that a number of the men here are fighting their own homosexual issues."

    Several other posters. I see. Plus your reading. Ok. Were these other posters psychiatrists, psychologists, or some other professional expert in these issues? Are you? Or were they/you just kind of comparing their own experiences to what they think someone is saying between the lines?

    "The fact is most of us have little or no interest in homosexuals or what they do."

    Again, who is us? Because most of the pro-homosexual posters here are hardly unbiased, being homosexuals themselves. Please remember many have confessed this in their posts.

    "Most of the men on this board are either homosexual or fighting against it. It is clear to everyone who comes here."

    Again, since you have not interviewed them, and in fact they have denied this in many cases, how do you know this? How is it "clear to everyone"? Do you have a crystal ball? Do you have gay-dar? I think you are just bewildered that people could actually be against gay marriage, so you're grasping at straws, trying to find an explanation and besmirch their reputations at the same time. Sorry, you've only accomplished the latter, but does that really make you feel better?

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:02 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    So, while Mike says we're making things up if we say, "gee Mike, you seem angry," you feel you are perfectly within your rights and justified to diagnose that a person you don't really know is a closet homosexual?

    I guess there is no end to the double standards of the homosexual crew.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:40 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    mathetes it was pointed out to me by several other posters as well as my reading of the posts that a number of the men here are fighting their own homosexual issues. The fact is most of us have little or no interest in homosexuals or what they do. Most of the men on this board are either homosexual or fighting against it. It is clear to everyone who comes here.

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:50 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    Mike,
    It's okay; like Daniel Paul, I appreciate your more civil tone and your work on behalf of children.

    As for speaking out against rudeness, I've not been online much the last week, and I see little good in trying to curb someone's behavior from days ago. One needs to catch them in the act, like training an animal. I have tried, most recently ready to defend Homosexual Man against calls for his murder. Upon investigation, his cries of "wolf" began when JehovahNissi quoted a Leviticus verse and DP used 1 Cor. 5 during their discussion. I sided with Hman until the facts showed he had reinterpreted their words to mean what they did not say.

    So I am trying to do my part when I'm online. Wouldn't it be better if we all did?

  • Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:24 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Mathetes, I don't think many of you are closet gays, I think many on here are just hateful people who have attached themselves to Christianity but wouldn't know love if it rolled over their car. Why "go figure" that I didn't say anything? You don't say anything when people like Weekender or Gibbons say absurdly rude and off base things. hide

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:44 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Mike85,
    (I'd prefer to just say Mike informally, but there seems to be a lot of Mikes here lately)

    "Its funny how much evangelicals make up, for instance, people saying "gee Mike, you seem angry" when I call out their nonsense."

    Well, if that's funny, you probably find it side-splitting hilarious when RC and others say men in the pro-traditional marriage camp must be latent homosexuals. Talk about making up stuff...! Yet you remained strangely silent. Go figure.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:14 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 3

    mathetes, I hardly think RC is throwing a tizzy, as much as you'd love to think so. Its funny how much evangelicals make up, for instance, people saying "gee Mike, you seem angry" when I call out their nonsense. Nope, not angry, just being honest :)

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:53 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    Believer,

    RC has lost and is throwing a tizzy. He's forgotten that an ad hom attack is the sign of a weak argument.

    May you and all the true Christians stand strong in the strength of the Lord, rooted and grounded in His Word.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:01 pm Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    rc, why do you and bk have this need to make any Christian who is opposed to the sins of homosexuality a homosexual who is pretending to be a heterosexual? Is that the only way you can deal with the truths found in God's Word with regards to the sexual sins of homosexuality? Since you can't refute the message then make false accusations about the messengers in order to shoot the messenger!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:57 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 1

    rc, apparently Mainers did!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:09 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    Homosexual Man, it has been apparent that the issue with several on here is their own unresolved homosexuality. I believe Barbara who was on here mentioned that some time ago. Unfortunately, they are using Christianity as a way of covering up their personal issues at the expense of others. I don't pretend to know what it's like to be a homosexual trying to be heterosexual, but I can tell you that as a heterosexual there is no way I could pretend to be homosexual. I can only imagine the mental toll this takes over so many years and, no doubt, is the reason for so much anger, hostility and hate on their part. However, no sane person takes anything they say seriously no matter how much they attempt to inflame others.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:59 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    If ME voters knew someone who was gay, many more would have shown up to vote as well. If 90% had turned out to vote, I would feel better even if we lost. What sickens me so much is the apathy towards a right that millions world wide are literally dying to have, and Americans just spit on it, especially for an issue that affects so many lives such as this one.

    There was a picture of a woman who fell to the ground in tears because gay marriage was defeated in Maine. Tomorrow, she will go on living her life. What about the gay couples who can't get married, whose partner is in the hospital and they are refused visitation because they're not married or don't have their power of attorney papers with them? It happens all the time, where are those pictures?

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:50 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    mike85, you're right if Mainers would have really believed that children in same-sex homes were not receiving the same legal rights and benefits in heterosexual homes, then probably far more voters would have shown up to vote on this issue.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:47 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    hman, not gloating, but simply noticing what appears to be hypocrisy on the part of RC, one post the people of Maine are intelligent caring people and the next post they have become ignorant uncaring people!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:35 am Agree: 1   Disagree: 2

    Uh, believer...I'm not sure the term "majority" works here. There was a 5% majority, true, but that was only 44% of the voters, so basically the majority were the people who had signed the petition in the first place. Had Maine seen all of its voters turn out, I think we would have seen drastically different results.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:09 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 4

    Believer, you are gloating. That is not Christlike.

    RC, fyi, Believer has shared with us that he "struggled" with same-sex atrraction in high school but manages to keep it suppressed.

    He's almost 60 now so it's not such an issue for him any more.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:06 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    "I am absolutely heartbroken by this news."

    Yep, me too Mike.

    And thanks for the kind words RC. It will come soon. (Just like Jesus? Oy.)

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:35 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    RC, plus are you ever going to share how children in same-sex homes do not receive the same legal rights and benefits as children in heterosexual homes? But it appears a majority of voters in Maine did not see those limitations either!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:32 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    hohnson, while I agree with you about trying to say some of the levitical laws are still applicable and some are not, I do disagree that they were always wrong since we did not live in that culture and to them these laws made complete sense. What I've come to believe is that we should not dwell on the enforcement of these laws but determine if indeed they are still applicable today and more specifically is there New Testament support for these laws today. Were they biblical mandates or laws that were only applicable and appropriate to a specific culture or a specific time such as the sacrificial laws which are no longer applicable because Christ has already gone to the Cross and these laws were meant to point people to the coming Messiah and Sacrifical Lamb who was Jesus Christ.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:24 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    RC, that's odd, yesterday you were bragging on Mainers with regards to the way this vote would go!!

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:16 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 3

    Mike85 I apologize for the ignorant people of my state. The fact that so many can turn their backs on families and children proves that Maine isn't the place it was when I was growing up. As people keep reminding me, if we had voted on integration it would have been defeated in most states. The idea of voting on civil rights is appalling and makes us look like total hypocrites to the rest of the world. We would be the first to criticize any other country that voted on rights and the French papers are saying just that.

  • Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:38 am Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    I am absolutely heartbroken by this news. I wonder which of their civil rights the lovely little creatures who got this issue on the ballot would be willing to have put to a vote, especially one of apathetic voters with a 44% turnout?

  • Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:19 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 2

    Good News, my county has gone more than 60% No on 1 so far. I am very proud of my neighbors.

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