Updated 02:59 pm.EST, Fri November 20, 2009

Church|Thu, Nov. 12 2009 11:30 AM EDT

Presbytery Approves Ordination of Lesbian

By Lillian Kwon|Christian Post Reporter

The San Francisco Presbytery has approved the ordination of an openly homosexual minister in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).

But already, opponents of the move say they have collected enough signatures to stay the ordination.

"We believe that what San Francisco Presbytery did was unconstitutional, and we expect to see the error corrected," said Sarah Hill, coordinator of the Presbyterian Coalition, according to Religion News Service. "The presbytery cannot ordain the candidate until the legal process is complete."

The vote (156 to 138) to approve Lisa Larges' ordination bid took place late Tuesday night at the presbytery's final meeting of the year. Those closely following the case were abuzz on Twitter, expressing support for Larges, who has reportedly been seeking ordination for 20 years.

A deacon at Noe Valley Ministry Presbyterian Church in San Francisco and blind since birth, Larges made her third attempt earlier this year to become ordained. Though the PC(USA) currently bans non-celibate gay and lesbian clergy, a controversial policy adopted in 2006 by the denomination's highest governing body has given greater leeway to candidates who declare conscientious objections to specific Presbyterian teachings, as long as the ordaining body does not consider them "essentials" of church belief.

In 2007, Larges presented a written "statement of departure," declaring a formal objection to the denomination's requirement that clergy "live either in fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or chastity in singleness."

She called the requirement a "mar upon the church and a stumbling block to its mission" and said it did not express essentials of Presbyterian faith, according to the PC(USA)'s news service.

In March of this year, the PC(USA)'s Pacific Synod blocked Larges' bid for ordination. But earlier this month, the denomination's highest court – the General Assembly Permanent Judicial Commission – issued a technical ruling allowing San Francisco Presbytery to proceed to examine Larges for possible ordination.

Speaking before the presbytery on Tuesday, Larges indicated that she would not follow the church's constitutional standard that states, "Those who are called to office in the church are to lead a life in obedience to Scripture and in conformity to the historic confessional standards of the church," according to The Layman Online.

Arguing that her ultimate allegiance is to Christ, and not to Scripture, she said, "To lead a life 'in obedience to Scripture,' sets the authority of Scripture above the authority of Christ and returns us to life under law," as reported by The Layman.

"I will not and can not claim chastity in singleness unless and until fidelity between two persons of the same gender within a covenantal relationship is recognized."

The vote on Tuesday to permit Larges' ordination is seen as groundbreaking. Other openly homosexual ministers in the denomination have come out to their congregations after being ordained. An appeal of the presbytery's decision is expected.

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  • Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:55 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 0

    "Confusion for the sake of seeming complex is intellectually suicidal."

    Irreducible complexity?

  • Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:06 pm Agree: 0   Disagree: 1

    Flagged as inappropriate. show Since majority of priests are gay, no reason not to have lesbians in there... TLChild-why on earth do you think God is in a book? He is in your heart Just because your parents told you the Bible is holy doens't mean it is... It is a book of some history and some fantasy-it is meant to guide, not rule God gave us minds to think, to figure out, to find Him- Your narrow minded ness will be your doom I am sad for so many of you-beating a book until your face turns red as the world evolves according to His plan... It must be very frustrating I foudn God when I embraced my true self and married for love...I never knew such fulfillment existed hide

  • Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:31 pm Agree: 1   Disagree: 1

    I'll let Jesus describe what seems to have escaped you, gagageguy: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." Matthew 5:17 Jesus Himself always agrees with scripture. To know that is not oversimplifying the matter. On the contrary, to obfuscate an obvious truth is no honor, nor is it a sign of intelligence, nor is it a sign of discernment. Confusion for the sake of seeming complex is intellectually suicidal.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:07 am Agree: 3   Disagree: 6

    "Back to scripture again: Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." Thanks for admitting that about yourself.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:28 am Agree: 4   Disagree: 3

    ls, excellent post!!

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:27 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 2

    John 1:1-2, 14, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. As ID said and as God's Word clearly shows God's inerrant Word and Jesus Christ, the Son of God are indeed one in the same.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:41 am Agree: 7   Disagree: 2

    Hmmm. You know I will have to say that what this woman said about scripture gives me pause. What does she mean by that? I realize that Christ died to free us from the curse of the law and warned us not to get legalistic again, but scripture is STILL the Holy Word of God. We cannot just decide we 'know enough' and stop reading and absorbing scripture to follow our idea of who Christ was. Christ teaches us to seek, which begins in the Word of God. The Word teaches us, as a living tutor in Spirit and Truth, about the God we serve, our Christian History, Christ and the End of Days.

    We must never stop studying the Word. We must never stop seeking God both inside of it and in the physical world around us. His beauty can be seen in the stars, His touch is seen in a flower, His Word is His communication to us, His children. I know we no longer sell our daughters as slaves, we now eat shellfish and pigs and we do not stone people to death for adultery, but that does not mean that scripture has lost its authority.

  • Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:08 am Agree: 5   Disagree: 1

    "Arguing that her ultimate allegiance is to Christ, and not to Scripture, she said, "To lead a life 'in obedience to Scripture,' sets the authority of Scripture above the authority of Christ and returns us to life under law," as reported by The Layman."

    Okay, can someone please help me out here with this question. How did Lisa Larges learn about Christ in order to know the authority of Christ?

    If I am not mistaken, THE SCRIPTURES TEACH US ABOUT YAHSHUA. Okay, please excuse my shouting, I become excited when I read ludicrous statements and I just cannot believe the craziest things people say in order to justify their sins. Scriptures do not have authority above Yahshua, because the WORD WAS YAHSHUA. However, 1 John 1:1-3 clearly explains:"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    I think she should not be ordained because of her ignorance in regards to the authority of scriptures. She really needs to study 1 John 1:1-3 before trying to accomplish anything pertaining to Yahweh and His only begotten son Yahshua.

    Homosexuals have to try and get rid of scriptures, because that is the only way their lifestyle will be justified. Nevertheless, if homosexuals do choose to get rid of scriptures and not obey them, then one can clearly see that they are not a Christian--you cannot have it both ways.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:30 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 2

    gem_of_tki »Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:25 pm Agree: 1 Disagree: 6 Flag Delete

    "To lead a life 'in obedience to Scripture,' sets the authority of Scripture above the authority of Christ and returns us to life under law,"

    Obvious

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:18 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 1

    puke x 3

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:32 pm Agree: 2   Disagree: 5

    ID4234, leave it to you to see things in the most simplistic, one-dimensional way possible. I think the very existence of biblical scholars and their many, many fascinating debates says pretty clearly that scripture and Christ can represent two different authorities. At least in perception by man.

    Some people see things more deeply than you do.

    I wish more people of faith would stop taking the easy way out by falling back to life under law. I wish they could challenge themselves to live deeper lives, exploring the spirit of their the words of the text they claim to follow.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:24 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 4

    Rachel, that is a great question. I wish we could hear from the other side, as I'm sure they have a good answer or else she wouldn't be there.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:44 pm Agree: 8   Disagree: 1

    "Speaking before the presbytery on Tuesday, Larges indicated that she would not follow the church's constitutional standard that states, "Those who are called to office in the church are to lead a life in obedience to Scripture and in conformity to the historic confessional standards of the church," according to The Layman Online.

    Arguing that her ultimate allegiance is to Christ, and not to Scripture, she said, "To lead a life 'in obedience to Scripture,' sets the authority of Scripture above the authority of Christ and returns us to life under law," as reported by The Layman."

    Ok, so she is not going to follow the church's constitutional standard, or lead a life in obedience to Scripture (Gods Word) - I don't care if she is gay or not, if you can't follow the simple guidelines, why would they want her ministering to others?

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:25 pm Agree: 7   Disagree: 3

    Back to scripture again:

    Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:50 pm Agree: 10   Disagree: 2

    The authority of scripture and the authority of Christ are one and the same since they never contradict one another. Therefore, they have an equality about them both always agreeing.

  • Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:25 pm Agree: 3   Disagree: 7

    Flagged as inappropriate. show "To lead a life 'in obedience to Scripture,' sets the authority of Scripture above the authority of Christ and returns us to life under law,"

    Obvious
    hide

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