Change for the homosexual is difficult, but still possible, researchers of a newly released study say.
Today's Christian News Online - The Christian Post
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
CP HOME
> Society > Homosexuality
Ex-Gay Study: 'Conversion' is Possible
By
Lillian Kwon
Christian Post Reporter
Sat, Sep. 15 2007 11:24 AM EDT
[-] Text [+]
Prev1Next
Most Commented Articles
Gay 'Marriage' Opponents Seek to Reverse New Law
Many Believe God's Intervention Can Revive the Dying
Calif. Court: Docs Can't Withhold Fertility Treatment to Gays
Church Leaders Ask Mo. Gov. to Commute Death Sentence
Evangelicals Praise McCain's Performance at Saddleback
Rick Warren: Obama's Abortion Answer Not Clear Enough
Groups: Abortion Report Biased, Downplays Mental Harm
-
Thousands Touched by Laurie's Message on Life, Death and Heaven
Groups: Abortion Report Biased, Downplays Mental Harm
Gay 'Marriage' Opponents Seek to Reverse New Law
Rick Warren: Obama's Abortion Answer Not Clear Enough
Rick Warren Reveals 'The Kind of Leader America Needs'
Pro-Life Youths Urge Rick Warren to Raise Abortion Issue
Church Pastors' Pay Rises to More than $80,000
-
American Baptist Leader Mourns Death of Zambia President
Large Legacy Saves Historic Mission Group from Staff Cutbacks
Priest Brutally Killed in India; Bishops Call for Protection
Piece of Black History Rests with Arkansas Church
Former Roberts Employee Says Donations Went into Unmarked Account
Some Churches Have 'It,' Some Don't
Revival Evangelist Todd Bentley Separates from Wife
Featured Advertiser Links
Comments
"Lets do the math, out of 100 people 25 dropped out of the study, giving 11 participants that claimed to be cured. This is considered a success?"
Yes, mburkel. That's why they've now changed the wording to "change is POSSIBLE." Lots of things are possible, but they sure as heck aren't probable!
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?
I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16)
Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Oh lovely statistics. I LOVE statistics (Note the words Dripping w/sarcasm). Statistics are a bunch of LIES. Oh please statistics oh yeah real convincing. There is not truth behind any statistics because for those of you who don't realize it...statistics can be written to reflect any person's views or what they wish the results to be. As for being homosexual...well...its part of a person and it is not a choice. And for all of you who believe that homosexuality is a choice please come prove this to me because there is not choice in the matter. Sure the people who are trying to avoid pain and hurt...thats a choice but for people who have always been that way it is not a choice. It is what exists and all that is known so please do not presume to know what homosexuality is and isn't. It is not always the choice it is portrayed as.
While I respect the attempt, DannyPoo, there are unfortunately several big holes in your argument (beyond the fact that you're relying on surveys and studies conducted more than 20 years ago, during a time that was indisputably homophobic and intolerant of gays). So let's work through them one by one:
1. Gay men are more prone to unhappiness, largely stemming from personal conflicts. -- First of all, the fact that homosexual men tend to be more in touch with their feminine side often entails being more open to their feelings and thereby more prone to be upset by personal conflicts than the typical heterosexual male. Moreover, especially at the time of the study, society was very disapproving of their lifestyle. Wouldn't you be prone to unhappiness if you had to hide who you felt you were out of fear of persecution or bodily harm? Wouldn't you find that you were more prone to be unhappy if you as a devout Christian lived in Saudi Arabia and were subjected to intolerance by Muslims and hounded to give up your heresy and embrace the one true way of life?
2. The propensity towards sexual compulsion, large numbers of partners and the disconnection of sex from love. -- Although these were treated in separate points they meld together in their overlooking of the same counterargument. In a society that frowned upon, persecuted and harassed homosexuals isn't this the logical outcome? When society is set up in such a manner that a healthy, monogamous relationship between two men or women is so vehemently condemned what else could you expect? Because at the time of the study these individuals were forced to hide in the shadows and gather at random to engage in their chosen lifestyle it's no big shock that they would have many partners and separate love from sex. Monogamous loving relationships are a luxury that are not permitted to homosexuals by religious fundamentalists. They don't prevent you from walking down the street, holding the hand of the person you love. Why must you prevent them from indulging in that indulgance?
3. Health issues. -- While it's noble that you worry about the physical well being of these individuals, especially that of their sphincters, this is a slippery slope that doesn't hold too much water. On that basis we should ban all alcohol, and cigarettes and french fries and sugary foods. People do a lot of things that may not be the most healthy things; however, by virtue of the self-determination afforded to us both by law and by whatever higher power you believe in, we are free to indulge in whatever behavior we so choose so long as it does not infringe on the rights or health of others.
Care to try again?
::begin quote::
Here's an open challenge to any of the people posting comments to this story, especially DannyPoo: Make an argument regarding why homosexuality is wrong and should be combatted WITHOUT turning to the bible or other religious teachings. No bible verses or religious quotes. I'm talking about reasoned, rational arguments explaining to the average non-Christian why such a lifestyle is so threatening to society and people's well-being.
::end quote::
Good question, I will be the first to admit that most of my arguments are based on scripture, and if the God of Christianity is real and is the God of the universe this would be a fair thing to do. However, there is much information on the net about the negative health effects of homosexuality - http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS01B1
But going behond simply health effects we can delve into deeper issues with Homosexuality.
In a 1977 survey of members of the American Psychiatric Association, 73% of the psychiatrists responding said that they thought that homosexual men are less happy than others. Seventy percent said they believed that the homosexuals' problems were due more to personal conflicts than to social stigmatization.
Harold I. Lief, Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality 2 (1977), pp.110- 111 (Cited in Growing Up Straight by George A. Reker)
Statistics give evidence of widespread sexual compulsion among homosexual men. The Kinsey study cited above revealed that 43% of the homosexual men surveyed estimated that they had had sex with 500 or more partners; 28% with 1,000 or more partners.
Bell and Weinberg, Homosexualities, p.308
The same Kinsey study revealed that homosexual men have to a great extent separated sexuality from relationship. The survey showed 79% of the respondents saying that over half of their sexual partners were strangers. Seventy percent said that over half of their sexual partners were people with whom they had sex only once.
Bell and Weinberg, Homosexualities, p.308-309
Some physical issues:
Certain common homosexual practices are physically destructive apart from transmission of disease. Anal intercourse, an extremely common practice among homosexual men, can seriously damage internal tissues and can permanently weaken the anal sphincter, causing incontinence and other serious medical problems.
In a survey reported in the official publication of the American Public Health Association, 78% of the gay respondents reported that they had been affected by a sexually transmitted disease at least one time.
Enrique T. Rueda, The Homosexual Network, (Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982), p.53
Because of the limitation of character limits put on posts, I will stop there. But there are more in various categories that provide at least a reasonable reason to be concerned even apart from scripture.
Lets do the math, out of 100 people 25 dropped out of the study, giving 11 participants that claimed to be cured. This is considered a success? And the rest, maybe they didn't pray hard enough?
Here's an open challenge to any of the people posting comments to this story, especially DannyPoo: Make an argument regarding why homosexuality is wrong and should be combatted WITHOUT turning to the bible or other religious teachings. No bible verses or religious quotes. I'm talking about reasoned, rational arguments explaining to the average non-Christian why such a lifestyle is so threatening to society and people's well-being.
Forgot to mention, the reason we know this author was referencing the Old Testament Sodom and Gommorah story is because of his refrence in Jude 5 "Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it..." He then goes into two Old Testament stories(v5-7), one of those is the one we are discussing.
::begin quote::
How do you connect "strange flesh" to homosexuality?
::end quote::
To start, the reference in Jude 7 is Sodom and Gommorah,
"...just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them..."
The author of the chapter of Jude, is obviously referencing to the story of Sodom and Gommorah to help us understand this section. What do we know about Sodom and Gommorah? We know that Sodom and Gommorah were overall sinful, refused hospitality, wicked, and practiced Homosexuality.
None of those other sins listed even come close to becoming a possibility for "strange flesh" other than homosexuality. The assumption of the author is that the reader knows the story of Sodom and Gommorah and makes the connection in this manner.
We know that the strange flesh is not Angel flesh because the verse states that the cities around them were also involved in "gross immorality and going after strange flesh", the angels in the story of Genesis 19 only go to Sodom & Gommorah.
That I think is a fair and logical interpretation. In order to refute it one would have to justify that "strange flesh" refered to inhospitality.... This requires a great stretch of logic.
God's Word tells us what sin is, He defines sin, He sets the boundaries, it is man that has fallen away from God, and homosexuality is one of those sins. God did not create anyone homosexual nor did he create anyone an alcoholic; these are choices. We have a society where many people are abused as children, I was one of those children, and I know many children who've been sexually abused, and they are living the either in the gay lifestyle or they are living very promisicous lifestyles.
I was sinned upon by adults, and then I became what I had been sinned on, and that cycle gets passed on down. We live in a fallen, sinful world. We all fall short of the glory of God! I battled with same-sex issues for years. Well, I began looking into Jesus Christ, and what I found was astounding. HE died for all of this sin, HE is the only way that true and lasting change occurs. Jesus took this sinful dead woman and HE cleansed her, and HE showed me who I was truly created to be, His child! I was created to be a Princess of Heaven, I am the KING's daughter, people do not know their own identity, they have allowed Satan (and he is our enemy, not flesh and blood) to steal their identity. JESUS CHRIST is the only way for restoration to be real and lasting! I praise HIM every day for the change (and change is ongoing for a lifetime). But today I am free, whom JESUS sets FREE, is FREE indeed!!!
If you really want to be free from bondage to sin (God has defined what sin is) go to GOD, not to man, and confess that you have sinned against HIM, and done evil in HIS sight! Tell HIM, that you really want the life that HE created you for! Don't let any man tell you that change is not possible, it may be with man, but NOTHING is impossible for GOD! HE makes change lasting for eternity! HE has given me a new heart, a new life and a real joy in my spirit! The joy of the LORD is our strength! Don't let anyone keep you in chains, JESUS wants to set you free, it's what HE came for, to set the captives free!!! For all you folks that don't believe change is possible, well let me tell you from personal experience, this world didn't care two figs for my life, but I met Jesus Christ and HIS love is what changes me! Knowing that nothing can separate me from His love, that alone showed me that this world is a liar and that HE is my all in all! My prayer for those struggling with this issue, run to JESUS, HIS arms are open wide and waiting for you to come to HIM to be set free! First, you have to want to be well! When we walk in sin, we are sick, and dead (no matter what that sin is) no sin is greater or lesser to Jesus Christ, HE died to make us right with God and anyone who calls upon HIS name shall be free) In His love and forgiveness, Annie
"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. " Jude 1:7
How do you connect "strange flesh" to homosexuality?
Josiah, where in the context do you see a response to "the way" homosexuality is being enacted? I certainly don't see it. Romans 1 condemns a host of sins....why is homosexuality the only sin that is intricately connected to the idol worship sin mentioned in the chapter? this seems odd...
No, but a response to the way homosexuality was being practiced.
::begin quote::
I refer to context as in the history, culture and what was releveant to the true definition to homosexuality in that day and age. The way people thought about homosexuality and what they most comonly connected homosexuality with.
::end quote::
Well consider that Homosexuality was an accepted practice in Roman culture....The bible's statements surely aren't a reflection of the culture.
I almost forgot another Powerful verse that removed Homosexuality from being a viable option. This statement was actually made by Jesus Christ himself.
Anyone who is interested, turn in your bibles to Mark 10. The pharisees ask Jesus Christ a technical question about divorce. Jesus in turn...Defines marriage.
"But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.' 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."
Jesus first defines the genders that are involved, and how those genders are allowed to join together. By this very statement Jesus eliminated the biblical backing for Homosexuality. Jesus did not say "God made them people...therefore they shall be joined", he says he made them Male, and Female, and therefore they shall be joined.
And I think few will disagree that Sexual Relations outside of marriage are considered a Sin. So if marriage is limited to a Male with a Female...BY JESUS.......
I refer to context as in the history, culture and what was releveant to the true definition to homosexuality in that day and age. The way people thought about homosexuality and what they most comonly connected homosexuality with.
Mr. Josiah, I just mentioned the context, which is partly idol worship, homosexuality, murder, envy, gossip etc.etc. However...i'll say it again....you want to reject Romans 1's statement on Homosexuality because Idol worship is listed....then you need to reject Romans 1's statement on the other Sins listed. Be consistent with your logic.
Mr. Look at Romans 1, it not only condemns Homosexuality, but greed, lust, envy, murder, gossip, lust etc.etc. I guess those are all ok too simply because idol worship is mentioned in the context. Seriously......read your bible......you can't reject the statements about Homosexuality because Idol Worship is mentioned in the context, unless you are willing to reject the other moral claims mentioned in that chapter as well.
Define Context- the set of facts or circumstances that surround a situation or event.
As Rembert Truluck put it, "Trying to understand scripture without understanding the context is like trying to drive a car blindfolded. You have no idea where you are, where you've been or where you're going."
Scripture cannot mean NOW what it did not mean THEN.
Another interesting verse against Homosexuality, yet one of the least used.
"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. " Jude 1:7
The essential Argument, those going after strange flesh are those who are practicing homosexuality.
The counter argument: The story of Sodom and Gommorah involves angels going into Sodom and Gommorah, therefore the Strange Flesh is that of Angels.
The problem with the counter argument: It says this was also a problem in surrounding cities (those that were not Sodom and Gommorah), where the Angels did not go.
The result: Homosexuality was wide spread in the area and is the Sin mentioned in Jude 1.
::begin quote::
References to homosexuality in the Bible has been taken out of context for centuries by radical, homophobic Christians to mean what they want it to mean. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that monogmous, loving, God worshiping same-sex couples is against God. Any reference to homosexuality in the Bible(including Romans and 1 Timothy) are all about idol worship-specifically to the fertility godess
::end quote::
Mr. Look at Romans 1, it not only condemns Homosexuality, but greed, lust, envy, murder, gossip, lust etc.etc. I guess those are all ok too simply because idol worship is mentioned in the context. Seriously......read your bible......you can't reject the statements about Homosexuality because Idol Worship is mentioned in the context, unless you are willing to reject the other moral claims mentioned in that chapter as well.
But can we take God’s Holy Word literally? Is it wise as Christians to do so? Is that how God wants us to read His word? Why did Jesus of Nazareth speak in parables? The Word of God is a mystery. Intended for us to seek him and the truth of His Word. We must take a closer look at the life and times of that age. And study language interpretation of text as well. As we approach these verses we must remember that modern thought of homosexuality in the 21st century is very much different than from Greek and Roman though in the time Paul wrote his letter to the people of Corinth. Paul was writing his letter to the Greeks in Corinth about homosexuality and how it was viewed in that time. Homosexuality was connected to shrine and idol worship. This theme is carried throughout the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelations. Worshiping other gods other than the one true God, our Lord and Savior and God of Love, is against His law. I think there is on argument there. However, there is absolutely no evidence that the bible says that loving, caring and committed same-sex couples that worship our Lord will not enter the kingdom of God. I must say again, study the Word of God in its CONTEXT, in it’s HISTORY and CULTURE, learn about the PEOPLE Paul, disciples, and other writers of the scriptures were writing TO. The bible was not meant for the faint in heart, but for the open heart.
CONTEXT...CONTEXT... CONTEXT...so important!
Once a person is deeply mired in sin, one will find almost absolutely any possible reason to rationalize one's way out. And to do so with the utmost arrogance and self-righteous pride. When a heart is hard and the eyes are blind, only God can soften the heart and open the eyes through the work of the Holy Spirit. So one can expect attacks on the Bible to continue till the end of this world. Few people attack the words of the Koran, the words of Confucious, the words of Buddha, the words of Taoism, the words of the Bhagavad-Gita, etc. Only the Bible stands as the sole target of those who hate the Truth. That fact speaks for itself. One focuses the energy only on the target that is most powerfully threatening with the Truth...the Bible.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV)
"9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
How is this taken out of context, Josiah? It seems pretty clear to me...
I would like to know where in the world fundamental ( and radical if I may add) Christians find that the Word of God states that loving, caring relationships shared between two of the same sex that acknowledge God as our Saviour is wrong. The truth of the matter is, IT DOESN'T! References to homosexuality in the Bible has been taken out of context for centuries by radical, homophobic Christians to mean what they want it to mean. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that monogmous, loving, God worshiping same-sex couples is against God. Any reference to homosexuality in the Bible(including Romans and 1 Timothy) are all about idol worship-specifically to the fertility godess. Fundamental Christians take scripture out of context ignoring history and culture of the times the books were written. Fear is what I think most people christians have. Fear of what is different to them. Did Jesus fear difference? Yeah, Exodus may have proven results(although small), but it's more like brainwashing to me. Is that Christian? And all in all, is homosexuality really the main point of God's Message? Is that what He wants us as his children of faith and love to concentrate on?
::begin quote::
Have you ever fallen in love with someone? Real love? Not the movie kind. Take that feeling and try to kill it. Impossible. That is truly unnatural and I don't believe that our God would put that love in someone's heart if it were wrong. The bible is full of outdated concepts and let's not forget has been edited to death to suit society's needs over the ages. Man wrote the bible, man is not perfect. God's word lives through our hearts and minds....I know he dwells in mine and speaks to me every minute. I know what is right and wrong. Murder is wrong, rape is wrong, stealing is wrong. Love between two adults...yes, real LOVE, is not wrong. Christians do not own God.
::end quote::
Woah woah woah, lots of claims about the bible and Christianity there...please back it up with Historical facts so that we can analyze your claim. The second problem I have with your statement is that the bible is written by man, and therefore wrong, but because the word of God is in your heart...you know that love between any two adults is ok..... You can't see the contradiction here?
Your statement is essentially: The Bible is wrong because it's written by "man", but I am right because I feel it in my heart. Arent you Human too? Maybe your heart is wrong? Why should we trust you over the bible? as you are human as the people who "wrote" the bible were human.
Homosexuals are no more "afflicted" by their sexuality than you are "afflicted" by the love of your own wife or husband. Our sexuality simply "is" ....it is not an affliction. You can't put people in boxes anymore...get over it. Furthermore, sexuality no more makes up the whole of an individual than the color of one's hair does. I don't spend my time obsessing over my coworker's interest in large breasts....Bob just finds that to be something he loves...No big deal. Channel all of this energy into getting the homeless off the street or suicide prevention or STD prevention. Your gay neighbor who picks up your mail for you while you are away is not a threat to your way of life....no more than big-boob-loving Bob is.
I don't think homosexuality is the homosexual's cross to bear. It's ours, and how we relate to those afflicted with it and how we respond to them in the way of tolerance. These people suffer enough, why does a certain segment of society want to punish them even more? I've been exposed to Gays my entire life and I've worked in prison among the worst society has to offer and believe me when I say homosexuals aren it. You have more to fear from your local neighborhood drug dealer....but how many neighborhood drug dealers are we tarring and feathering in the name of God?
Exodus? That would be the group whose ex-gay co-founder fell in love with a exodus volunteer, left the group, and eventually they had a commitment ceremony, right?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International#Scandals
The "ex-gay" phenomena is nothing more than using overwhelming social pressure to force gays, lesbians, and bi-sexuals to deny and repress who they are. Nobody should be forced to sacrifice their identity to the insecurities of those who can't handle the existence of gays as normal members of the community.
Have you ever fallen in love with someone? Real love? Not the movie kind. Take that feeling and try to kill it. Impossible. That is truly unnatural and I don't believe that our God would put that love in someone's heart if it were wrong. The bible is full of outdated concepts and let's not forget has been edited to death to suit society's needs over the ages. Man wrote the bible, man is not perfect. God's word lives through our hearts and minds....I know he dwells in mine and speaks to me every minute. I know what is right and wrong. Murder is wrong, rape is wrong, stealing is wrong. Love between two adults...yes, real LOVE, is not wrong. Christians do not own God.
::begin quote::
So much for love thy neighbor. How is it that the religion that prides itself on tolerance and doing what Jesus would do consistently manages to come off as intolerant and hateful? You should all be ashamed of yourselves turning the message of a man who preached love and acceptance into hate and fear of that which you don't understand.
::end quote::
You have made two mistakes in this comment. The first is that you have equated our belief that Homosexuality is wrong with intolerance. If intolerance is believing something is wrong and encouraging others to do what is right, then this would mean you are intolerant of those who believe homosexuality is wrong. This would make you intolerant of a massive portion of Christianity.
True Tolerance is loving the individual while yet believing what they are doing is wrong. Generally, most Christians love Homosexuals in the same way they love any other sinner (Ex: My mother is homosexual, but I love her yet do not approve of her lifestyle and encourage her to align with biblical truth).
The second mistake you make is with the Character of Jesus, it appears you have made the assumption that because Jesus loved everyone...he accepted all of their practices. This is incorrect. One merely has to look at Matthew 23 and Jesus's condemnation of the Pharisess, or Jesus's violent action upon those selling good within the temple. To quote the book of John
"So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"
John 2:15-16
Jesus made a WHIP and ran everyone out! Does this sound like a man who "accepted" things that were contrary to what he believed was the mandates of God? Absolutely not. He accepted people, not the sins of the people. He was tolerant of the people, not tolerant of the sins of the people.
Your real argument should instead be about whether or not Homosexuality is wrong, rather than what Jesus's intent was...because it obviously wasn't acceptance of everything people do.
While we are cannot be accurate judgers of anyne but ourselves, we are observers and representatives of GOD....We cannot see a brotehr r a sister or a sinner man living in a way of life that is not glorifying to God withour remembering when we were in ours...We cannot comromise God's Word, and agree with sin, but despite our pain and our empathy for the one in sin, we can love them despite their blindnessa and bndge....The Word of GOD remains the same...When HE gave the WORD to die for our sins, HE did not repent of any part of it...THerefore sin remains sin no matter who commits it...We can not apoogize for righetousness becasue someone hasn't found it yet...we have to stand and deckare the truth that God hates the sin..but HE koves the sinner...Let's do our job and witness not accuse and laugh at others who fall into these traps. How can the world see God if we hide Him?
So much for love thy neighbor. How is it that the religion that prides itself on tolerance and doing what Jesus would do consistently manages to come off as intolerant and hateful? You should all be ashamed of yourselves turning the message of a man who preached love and acceptance into hate and fear of that which you don't understand.
How other people choose to live their lives is really no one's business but their own. I have a number of close friends who are homosexual. I grew up with many of them and not only do I wholeheartedly believe that they simply are they way they are without some kind of sinful choice, but on average they tend to be the nicest, most morally upstanding individuals I know.
If someone decides that they want to attempt to transition from homosexuality to heterosexuality, that's their own choice and I respect that, because they are a person like any other and deserving of the treatment any of us would expect. However, it should be based on their own internal desires, not external pressures placed upon them by family, friends or religious leaders who see them as broken or unclean.
Different doesn't naturally mean deviant. Free will exists for the express purpose of allowing people to live how they wish. And as much as you all will disagree on this point, homosexuals are not looking to convert others to their lifestyle nor are they attempting to denigrate heterosexual relationships or marriages. They just want to live their lives without being bothered by people who are too closeminded and bigoted to mind their own business.
Oops! sorry...that last line should read, "tomorrow is a new day" Darn spell check is a tricky thing!
I once hated to eat broccoli. But, knowing the benefits of eating it (and how happy and proud my mom would be), I chose counseling to learn how to choke it down with ease. Now when I am dining with close friends and family, I can consume mass quantities of the wholesome veggie and look perfectly normal outwardly to the delight of both my parents, I might add. Although inside I feel as though I may vomit at any moment, I’m making others happy and that is what is most important for me. Now, I know that there are many other ways to get the same benefits that broccoli provides. But since not eating broccoli threatens the broccoli industry and life as we know it apparently, I feel that I am doing my part for the broccoli growers of America. Yes, eating the green icky stuff is completely unnatural to me (I’ve always disliked it since I was little), but a little nausea 3 times a day is a small price to pay, don’t you think? I’m still learning to cope with the painful gas and bloating eating it creates, but tomorrow ions a new day! Maybe it will get better!
How did the American Psychological Association remove homosexuality from its list of deviant behaviors in the 1960's? Did political pressure play any role? Did advocacy from special interest groups play any part?
::begin quote::
This "therapy" works?? Indeed? I just have one little question... How many of you "Christians" would like for your daughter to marry an "ex-gay" man? I mean, if it REALLY work... you wouldn't mind, right? Right????
::end quote::
LOL, well im not sure how many Fathers are eager to marry off their Daughters to any men unless they meet a certain criteria. Most Fathers are quite overprotective. As a man who was questioned pretty heavily by my wife's father before being able to get permission to marry her, I know that most Christian Fathers are simply looking for a Christ-devoted individual. Certainly issues like a man struggling with Homosexuality or Pornography, or any problematic sexual activity is definately an eye-brow raising concern for a Father. So I am not really sure that is a fair question.
Hmm, gay holocaust huh Luigi? I think that people that are gay are seeking to change their lifestyle (choice) because they know that they were not raised that way and actually respect the parents that raised them. Being gay is a choice not a destiny, not to mention, it is just not natural. I applaud the people that are seeking to change their lifestyle for the better. There are good choices and bad choices period.
Gay Holocaust? No one is forcing anyone into therapy... maybe misguided but well intentioned parents, but I have yet to read about a gathering up of homosexuals and forcing anything on them. If anything homosexuals keep forcing their lifestyle on the rest of us and our children. And Jon_D you're right "try hard enough to make a study fit your preconceptions and you'll get the results you hoped for" you all have been doing that for years. If you read the article carefully it stated that change happened in a MINORITY of subject who really wanted to change.. again no one forced anyone to participate in the study. Let people do what they will isn't that what you all cry or are you afraid that if people can really make a change your agenda will no longer be relevant... I think that is the real issue...
This "therapy" works?? Indeed? I just have one little question... How many of you "Christians" would like for your daughter to marry an "ex-gay" man? I mean, if it REALLY work... you wouldn't mind, right? Right????
"For an individual who feels they need to pursue change, particularly on a religious basis, our study encourages them to pursue that path," they said.
Are they willing to try to change heterosexuals into gays if they want it? The most disgusting part of reparative therapy is that refuses to take in to account that the only reason why anyone would seek change is because, as a homosexual, they have been treated as a lesser person. It is the gay holocaust. It's horrifying. They are use science to make innocent people something they are not.
The worse part of this article is when Kwon writes "The American Psychological Association is currently revising its 10-year-old policy on counseling homosexuals after years of pressure from pro-gay groups that say such therapy is harmful." Pro-gay groups are not asking the APA to revisit its policy. The fact is the APA and many other orgranizations already say that reparative therapy is ethically wrong. But right-winged christians pretend that there is some sort of conspiracy.
That real fact is this that all these true medical, scientific and professional orgranizations speak out against reparative therapy and discrimination against gays and lesbians:
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Counseling Association
American Association of School Administrators
American Federation of Teachers
American Psychological Association
American School Health Association
Interfaith Alliance Foundation
National Association of School Psychologists
National Association of Social Workers
National Education Association