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Politics, Religion, and Evolution: The Three Don’ts
By
S. Michael Craven
Christian Post Guest Columnist
Tue, Nov. 13 2007 08:54 AM EST
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Comments
You are right Mr. Craven. The evolutionist's claim that our sense of right and wrong are biologically induced is incompatible with he trait of altruism.
Thanks for the kind words steveh20 - they are appreciated. Jeff
Tom - Where did I say that I didn't believe the Bible is the Word of God? I'm sorry if I insulted you; that was not my intent but I find it odd that people of Christian faith would get so worked up over something that isn't even mentioned in the Bible. In all of my studies of the Bible, I've never once encountered evolution being mentioned. In fact, I feel a little insulted that you would suggest that because I believe in evolution, I must not be a Christian.
Nothing about evolution does anything to weaken my faith. As Christians we get mired down in these kinds of arguements that seem so made up and not really having anything to do with Christianity. I don't believe that the folks that work at the Discovery Institute are the least amongst us.
Tom, no probs,Steve
Sorry Steveh20 Do you not by agreeing to what a person has said say the same thing? ifeelfine does seem by his post to show contempt for those of us who take the Bible as the word of God. If this is not your postion also then I apologize. I did finially get you handle right that counts right?
Gods Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
Tom, thanks for the thoughtful reply. You are quite right that I agreed with "ifeelfine" and their sentiments, however you do go on to accuse me of contempt for those who may approach the bible diffrently as to how I do and this is what I take issue with. I have no problem with defending one's faith etc,,with good debate, but I don't find Jesus in the gospel second guessing what people really believe, or at least thats how I understand it from my reading of the text. Unlike him I don't really know what is in a man's heart and so I am careful to jump to conclusions. Kind regards, Steve
Opps it is Steve20 not 70 no excusses sorry.
In Christ
Tom
Ah steve70 did you read the post ifeelfine wrote and in which you agreed with? debate love it, but as I see it from the posts I read that the hard words and put downs come from those who are trying to defend a non-Christian postion. Then when we who believe in a Savior God answer in kind you all get upset. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I'm thinking. Jesus said I must love He did not say that I can't answer or defend our postion. He was the master of debate.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
Dear Tom please can you explain to me how you know I hold people in contempt when I diasgree with them on an issue, That is quite a statement to make and I have no doubt that you have the proof to back it up otherwise you would not have made it. Thank you, Steve (that's steveh20 not steve 70.)
P.s It is ionic that I find the Christian sites to be the unkindest when it comes to exchaging views, why do we thank that is?
Sorry for the mispelt words I was doing my best imatation of a insulting hick that ifeelfine and Steve70 seem to hold in comtempt for belieiving the Bible, ah all of it.
Gods blessing
In Christ
Tom
torus---funny and i thoght only a fool says in thier heart htere is no God.
1) What form of evolution are you talking about? your religion has so many different sect or theories.
2)The fact of evolution is not support by the evidence. At best it is a theory at worst a myth. Many scientist are leaving this world view. Again no evidence for one species turning into another in the fossil record. No species half in between.
3) So it is okay for your religion to be held up as science, but not htose theories that are being brought forth in opposition------with I might add as much evidence as yours. Are your beliefs so faragile that you can't abide opposition?
4) Sorry they are the same. You who belive in the god of evolution and those of the catholic religion both tried to stifle deabte. One with a holier then thou attitude and the other well with a holier then thou attitude. same ole same ole.
5) Okay an adult who acts like a child demanding that you believe thier way way or the highway and will not allow anybody else to challenge their belief in evolution will do what ever they can to stop ou from doing so.
6) Sir I do not believe in Sant Claus. What I believe in is a God that has a book that has been shown to be as, no, more, reliable and trustworthy then any other book of ancient history like Socrates, Aristotle or Homer etc.etc/ A book that every year, if on care to invesigate, is shown to be correct more and more as time goes by. A book that millions of believers have held as true and lives have been changed. A book when learned and followed the way God intended it to be, benifits everybody. A book that its core asks us to believe ina Savior named Jesus Christ. This belief in Jesus has changed lives from ones with no meaning to ones with meaning. Healing people from alcohol, drugs,and any manner of addicitions and sickeness. This evidence is repeatable and verifiable. millions of people can testify to this truth.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
Dear ifeelfine72, your posting is full of common sense, kind regards, Steve
Is there any Christian posting here who believes evolution does anything to dispell their faith? Is there any Christian here who feels that this "debate" is bringing anyone to the faith? Then why even talk about this at all? In fact, I would wager that if anything, it is pushing people away from the faith. They don't see the greatness of it, all they see is a bunch of hicks that should platitudes "Evolution is just a theory," "My grandpa wasn't a monkey," etc. Stupidity.
There is no debate, evolution is science and intelligent design is faith - and to suggest otherwise is insulting to all of us. Stop pitting it is as evolution = atheism, intelligent design = Christian faith, it makes us all look bad. Evolution and Christian faith are completely compatible - enough with the nonsense.
Tom - Please, go and learn some evolution before you make even more of a fool of yourself.
1. There is plenty of fossil evidence of evolution.
2. While the details of evolution may change, the fact that it occurred does not. It did.
3. I don't mind debate in school about evolution from a scientific point of view. The problem is that nobody's come up with any sort of scientific argument that it didn't occur so there's no respectable position to argue from.
4. Very different from the catholic church. In this case the point is that you don't get to disagree with evidence. You can ignore it, sure, but denying that it exists is futile. If you deny gravity exists you get laughed at, if you deny that the earth is round you get laughed at, and if you deny the facts on which evidence is (blatantly and obviously) based you get laughed at too.
5. Not like a child. More like an adult who's getting more and more frustrated trying to convince his 18-year old that Santa Claus no longer exists.
I find it interesting that HampsteadPete and Torus are so full of themselves that they would stretch the truth behind this religion call evolution. Many many scientist and more all the time as well as intelligent layman are walking away from this belief system. To label those who disagree with your silly arguements as uneducated or ignorant is amusing. Kind of like calling the kettle black. You have no proof of one species turning in to another none. No fossil record of any intermediate species making the transistion. Instead you have a therory that is constantly evolving changing the rules of engagement with whom you disagree with when ever we expose you falsehoods. You are so unsure of your postion and your facts you can't even let it be debated in the schools where childern are supposed to look at all the evidence for and against as well as those theories that are differant from your own and make thier own decisions and you call us flat earthers. Man what hypocritics you all all. defending your favorite theory and shoving it down the throat of those who disagree. Is this any differant then the Catholic church excommncationg those whose had disagreed with thIer postion on scientific issue in the middle ages. No they are one and the same. You are quite franlkly showing little child like temper tantrum, I will take my ball and go home attitude. Debate sirs and mam yes but look at all the evidence and don't shut out those who oppose and don't give us this stuff about ID and Creation as a attempted push religion, You are doing the same. My God how shallow you appear.
In Christ
Tom
Goodness, you really have no idea and you're not ashamed to show it.
First, there is a difference between survival of the fittest being a the highest moral good and morals developing as a result of survival of the fittest. The former reeks of the implication that we might want to cast away only the fittest individuals, but this is false. The concept of "survival of the fittest" can work on other scales. Creatures that develop teamwork skills can survive even if the individuals are weak. Consequently the morals which develop alongside can relate more to ideas like cooperation and compassion, among others. There's no reason to assume that any particular resulting moral idea is paramount. As freethinking creatures our duty is to try to understand what is best.
Second, when we say that evoluion has no "goal" what is meant is that it is not directed. The classic example is this: Giraffes did not develop long necks in order to reach the treetops. By this I mean that there was no directing force which said "this would be good, so do it." Rather, random perturbations in the neck lengths of giraffes resulted in some individuals which did better, and those survived more often.
Evolution has no goal like you mention; it is not trying to be an alternate theory. Rather, evolution is the theory which is the result of doing science. This the same science which explained gravity, developed the computer you're typing on, cures diseases and so on. I think your own (religious) insecurities might be making you look for an opponent where there isn't one.
The reason that we get a little uppity when people like you start talking is that your ignorance comes through so clearly. You first don't do your homework and don't understand evolution properly. Furthermore you twist the words of the people talking with you. Lastly you have an ulterior motive, to quash science in favor of your own biblical worldview. We find this rather backwards and hence get a little perturbed.
Lastly, please keep in mind that using the term "evolutionist" is childish as much as using the term "gravityist" for those who believe in gravity. Among scientists and intelligent laymen, evolution is fact. Using cutesy terms makes you look a bit like a flat-earther calling the rest of us "roundies".
Dear HBN, thank you for your comments about my personality (you must have been liasing with my daughter). I have to be honest ,I don't reconise myself in them ( apart from the one about being witty). Thank you also for letting me know you where being facetious as I would not have guessed that unless informed me of that fact. I find it strange that because I think the Dover judgement was a good one that you should therefore think me an athiest' I would be interested to know how you came to this conclusion. You may indeed be right about me being outraged at some point in the future by a judges decision or you may be wrong only time will tell. Once again thank you for taking time to communicate with me at such a level and thank you for considering me so clever, I am sorry to dissapoint you but I am not Regards, Steve
Dear HBN, thank you for your comments about my personality (you must have been liasing with my daughter). I have to be honest ,I don't reconise myself in them ( apart from the one about being witty). Thank you also for letting me know you where being facetious as I would not have guessed that unless informed me of that fact. I find it strange that because I think the Dover judgement was a good one that you should therefore think me an athiest' I would be interested to know how you came to this conclusion. You may indeed be right about me being outraged at some point in the future by a judges decision or you may be wrong only time will tell. Once again thank you for taking time to communicate with me at such a level and thank you for considering me so clever, I am sorry to dissapoint you but I am not Regards, Steve
personally i think it is extremely stupid for evolutionists to call our [Christian] faith or beliefs irrational or unlogical whenever there is more Biblical evidence than there is evidence of the basis of evolution! As stated in this article, evoltion is merely philosophy and not focused on the thought that humans came from monkeys. However, that is a part of the complete evolutionary theory, it is more so focused on that statement that some specimen of some kind have always existed on Earth and that we weren't created just evolved. If i continued, I'd only be restating many veiws in this article so i'll stop there. But the main thing i wanted to adress is that evolutionist shouldn't call our belifes irrational when theirs are [not that i think Christian beliefs are "iffy" at all but] much more unstable!
"Concepts such as compassion, mercy, forgiveness, as well as the belief in human equality are virtues revealed exclusively through and established by a Christian interpretation of life and reality. These virtues are recognized as uniquely human and nowhere relevant to the animal world."
Oh my, another blatant creationist lie. Chimps, whales, dolphins and some other mammals display altruism, compassion, and many other so-called "human" traits. To claim otherwise is to proclaim oneself ignorant of what is really going on in the world.
Belief in human equality? Since when is that a Christian trait? In case you have forgotten, the bible, your bible, was used prior to the civil war in this country to justify slavery.
Look in your own scripture. The "good samaritan" certainly wasn't a Christian, was he?
Yes indeed, thank goodness for Dover. I just watched the show & all the lying, hypocrisies and "end justifies the means" of the Christian religion is out there for the whole world to see. Took a judge appointed by King George to point it out, and he did a heck of a good job.
SteveH20: Witty, clever, incisive, wise, 'steel-trap' rationality in your comments! (I am being facetious). If you really want judges who are not trained in the sciences to judge whether evolution or ID are religions, and then to make law about it, I suspect that one day very soon you will be outraged by another judge giving a judgment you don't like. Why don't you go back to the atheist message boards and congratulate each other on how much cleverer you are than everybody else.
Thank goodness for Dover.