One day after the nation paid tribute to fallen members of the military, an atheist group argued before a federal judge that the placement of memorial crosses on Utah highways to honor fallen Highway Patrol troopers is unconstitutional.
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Lawyers Clash Over Memorial Crosses
By
Lawrence Jones
Christian Post Reporter
Wed, Nov. 14 2007 08:37 AM EST
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Comments
Earlyed
So true! So true!
The quote by Mr. Barnard is not accurate. Clearly he must not be a "reasonable observer". You see, the Cross is not just a a symbol of the death of Jesus Christ. The cross has no body, the tomb is emtpy and Jesus is alive. But more to the point, I believe these suits are creating a hostile environment wherein certain symbols are targeted only because of grudges held by a particular group. We are surrounded by flags, emblems, city and county seals that are replete with pagan symbols, Roman gods and godesses, native american religious symbology, etc. and nobody says a word. The only person who would dare say a word about a Star of David on government property would be decried as antisemitic. Anyone who would bring a suit against a depiction of Quetzalcoatl on city grounds would be labeled intolerant. There is a huge double standard here. Everyone knows it but those who can do anything about it are to often too afraid.
watch I am afraid you are correct I am reading a book written by Alan Sears and Greg Osten, Titled The ACLU vs America---chilling to say the least.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
"he and those like him (can you say ACLU) could well be call traitors themselves."
You can't be refering to the Anti-Christ lawyers Union. :)
You are so right Prophet. in your interpetation of the First Amendment.
amne, tom! amen!
I think Bob's final comment sums up his entire argument.. I wish it had not been flagged. there really was nothing offensive about it, in my opinion. But i dont think Bob was expecting someone to actually read the amendment and understand what it said. most people hear "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" and think, "Oh...so there IS a separation of church and state." When in reality there isnt. All it's saying is that congress cant say "You must be a Christian." It doesn't say that congress can't pray to God. It doesn't say that congress cant express it right to free speech in expressing their belief in God. It doesn't even say that courts can't hang the ten commandments from their walls. But it does say that they can't force you to do the same.
Slacker and Prophet very good post. I might add that it wasn't until about 1947 when one of our wonderful supreme court justices found in this wall in the constitution. wow where was it for a hundred and forty some years. I also wonder how BobC feels about the Bible being the main school text book for at least a 100 years or so. Or how he feels about one of the first things the new congress did was to pray. Or how he feels about the many times a President of these United States has ask the nation for a day of prayer and fasting. traitor we are? I think in light of the history of this country and in light of the writtings of those who founded this country and in light of all the monuments that have been built that invoke God's name since the beginng of this once great country, he and those like him (can you say ACLU) could well be call traitors themselves.
Maranatha--come quickly Lord Jesus
In Christ
Tom
BobC: so I will ask this since you didn't answer it before, where in the constitution does it say that there is A WALL of Seperation... I have read the constitution and NOWHERE does it say that there is a WALL of SEPERATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE... the Wall of seperation that you mention actually came from a Thomas Jefferson speach he gave to the Danbury Baptist Society in Danbury Conn stating the following " there shall be a wall of seperation between the church and the state"... So I ask again where in the constitution does it say that there is a seperation of chuch and state.... I have read the constitution and my first amendment states the following "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor hinder the free expression thereof...
I understand you have alot of anger issues, someone has done something to you and you want to blame it on God, but please don't disrespect this country with your diatribes about traitors and such because as I see it the only problem in this country is that certain groups of people have made up history as THEY saw fit... Good day...
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."
"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
I've been told worse.
The governor of Georgia just got run through the ringer for praying to God to help end their drought. Why? He's not forcing anyone else to. He's not making it a law that you have to pray to God. He's simply excercising his right to free speech. Bob would love to do away with free speech...which is also part of the first amendment. He wants part of the amendment, but wants to do away with part of it.
He puts himself under his own judgement when he says "Tom, The choice is respect the 1st Amendment, or be a traitor." He needs to respect the first amendment or be a traitor.
Still...Bob, you're calling almost every leader of our country stupid and worthless. How unpatriotic. How treasonist.
There is a place where it says something to the effect of Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...but it also goes on to say "Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting the free exercise thereof", but atheists don't want to listen to that part of the constitution. There is a difference between making a law respecting an establishment of religion, and professing one's belief in a particular religion. To post the Ten Commandments on the walls of a court is not establishing a law...it is merely professing one's view...even if it is the government's view. Just because the government, or court, or anyone claims to be a Christian, doesn't mean that they are making it a law that all people have to. But the atheists and humanists blow things waaaaaaay out of proportion making it seem that we do.
From the First Amendment to the constitution: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
Tom, The choice is respect the 1st Amendment, or be a traitor. You can put up a cross on your property if you want to make fool out of yourself, but no government in America can do what they are trying to do in Utah.
I would like to point out they will never get away with putting these crosses up, but they will waste taxpayer money in court trying to defend this treason. What's the point in wasting the money of taxpayers?
Okay I'll bite. Where in the constitution does it mention wall of seperation of church and state?
I don't think it is there. Sorry i am a little bit tiried of people saying that there is.
In Christ
Tom
Still...you're calling almost every leader of our country stupid and worthless. How unpatriotic.
The Christian thugs who want to plant crosses everywhere, believe some god-man came down to earth to get executed so his supernatural daddy wouldn't torture us. Then the stinking decomposing god-man, after 3 days of maggots, worms, and bacteria eating his internal organs, and despite his horrible smell and rotting flesh, got up, walked around, then flew up to the clouds to be with his daddy. This is pure garbage and the people who believe it, the christians, are childish and insane. Christianity makes people stupid, which should be no surprise because only an incredibly stupid person could believe in the idiotic resurrection.
"Patriotic Americans realize that Christianity has been a HUGE part of our country since it's founding."
I realize Christianity is the most stupid invention in human history. The nonsense you deluded people believe in is disgusting. If you're not going to respect our wall of separation, then non-Christians will give you all the respect you deserve, which is no respect at all.
Speaking of Presidents using scriptures and references to God in their speeches....where's that huge wall of "separation of church and state"? Apparently, it's not nearly as big as you would like it to be. But keep building...soon you will get what you want...separation from God.
Patriotic Americans realize that Christianity has been a HUGE part of our country since it's founding. Most Presidents professed some sort of belief in God, and many even used scriptures in their speeches. But, then, I guess those Presidents weren't very patriotic....were they? They, the leaders of the greatest country in the world, were dumber than you.
A flag would be fine chica.
These crosses, a symbol of Christianity (despite what the liar Assistant Utah Attorney General Thomas Roberts said), send a message to all non-Christians - "Christian thugs are in charge here and if you don't like it, that's tough."
We have something in America called the Wall of Separation between Church and State. Patriotic Americans respect this wall. Traitors ignore it. Christian bullies who shove their religion into everyone else's faces are traitors. Treason is a crime that should be punished severely. The lying traitor Assistant Utah Attorney General Thomas Roberts should be fired immediately.
Yeah, yeah...i know that a red cross has symbolized medicine for years...probably because the Cross of Jesus represents healing. Have you seen the symbol that is used for many medical designations? A snake on a pole. You ever wonder where that comes from? I'm not sure if that is a universal sign or just something used in my local area.
Bob...don't let the Red Cross hear you say that.
Bobc: What would you suggest to properly memorialize these officers? A flag? An ugly gravestone? Nothing symbolizes honor an remembrance better than a cross. And it has been part of Western tradition for hundreds of years. Should we paint school buses into cartoon characters now because the kids would find it fun? Or should we keep them bright yellow, a symbol of caution?
Assistant Utah Attorney General Thomas Roberts said the crosses in this context are not religious symbols but secular symbols that represent "death and remembrance."
This is called "LYING". Everyone knows what these crosses are. They represent the execution device that knocked off Jesus. They are the major symbol of Christianity. Why do Christians lie so much? Don't they care about their reputation?
Some people don't like atheism shoved into their face either.
Some people don't like Christianity shoved into their face.
It is so sad that we need litigation to demand the Constitutional right to life, LIBERTY and the pursuit of happiness as our guarantee as citizens of this wonderful country! What is it with those who decry the acknowledgment in any way of the Maker of us all Who has afforded these rights through the careful work and sacrifice of our forbears? Must we go through a terrible time of persecution before we can realize the precious gifts we have as citizens of this nation.