Token... lol. Of course God will not give us everything if we just sit there and pray for it. "Put your back to the cart, and urge your horse forward and you shall get it unstuck yourself." -- some letter from Ignateous that i forget

greg

um......what?

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Token
I could spend hours talking about prayer. God answers all prayers...sometimes it's no. Sometimes its something that we didnt expect or want. But, just like when your young children ask for something and you say no...they may not understand at that time. When they grow up they may understand. That's the way it is with God. Sometimes we ask something and he says "no" and we get upset. Joni Earickson-Tada is a good example (i hope i spelled her name right). A girl who became parapalgegic in a diving accident. Why didn't God heal her? She was a good Christian girl. Because God had other plans for her.
I wish I had the time and space to go into the myriad of reasons behind God's decisions and what sin is all about. but I dont. talk to a spirit filled pastor and maybe he can answer many of these questions.

TokenSP doubts are ya kidding----all the time about a lot of stuff not just about my faith and God but in all areas of my life. But when I am done with my pity parties and regain some resemblance of calm. I look at what He has done in my life, how He has set me free from the addications I had and the sins He continues to forgive me for. It is a process this walk we are on. i remember how he has answered the prayers of mine and others for healing in mine as well as other people's lives. When I look at my life compared to the train wreck that I has on. I realize that He is real, He does answer prayers, He does save. That with all the evidence that has been written about here in this as well as other post brings me back to Yes it is true. I really don't know why God says no to some of what we would consider reasonable prayers/request, Thats where faith really comes in to play, A faith that is based somewhat on answered prayer and the change he hs brought into ones life and/or the blessings He has poured on me in the past. Someone said. As God he can do anything He wants He is God Sound trite I know but He is. I have many a question to ask when I get to heaven. Gods Blessing on you and yours. We will keep praying always, for scripture says the prayer of a righteousman avails much. not our righteousness but His Sons.
In Christ
Tom

Why would God ever tell us no? Why would God let me live in sin? thats what I dont understand... I can understand him not wanting to help someone sin, but why wont he help someone who pleads for someone to stop sinning?

Whats more prayer is something that God does, no one ever said there was a limit to what one could pray for, so if thats true, why dont Christians pray that all the limbs lost during this war on terror regrow. If you say, God cant do whats logically impossible, you are limiting God to something he himself created. Why would he bind himself? So ok... if he cant do that, why not pray that the war ends tomorrow. Bet you it wont... if you just pray for the war to end and a year from now it does... well no war lasts for ever. Pointless to say that prayer did that.

I dont think praying is the solution to problems. I think if one prays for food rather than going out to seek food, will starve because he didnt have the presence of mind to find it himself. I dont believe in prayer, its one of the most controversial aspects of Christianity. If I pray for rain for a 3 weeks, constantly praying for rain, and then on the first day of the fourth week it rains, that does not prove prayer. I could have wished for rain for 3 weeks and I am willing to stake all I own that on the first day of that 4th week it would have rained. I could of totally had no opinion on whether or not it would rain and on the first day of that fourth week it would still rain. If I pray for money, and then one day I get a raise, that doesnt mean prayer works, it probably means you were due for a raise, OR you deserved it, regardless of whether or not you were praying beforehand.

James 1:5-8 says "If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does. "
A double minded man (someone who is unsure) is like a wave being tossed around.
And you said "Its as if theres no room for error, as if you guys believe everything you say is true because it is based on the word of God." Yeah, that's the point. The Word of God is the ultimate guide in how to live.
I bet you're under the misconception that the Word of God is a book of do's and dont's. In a way, that is correct. But why are there those guidelines?

are we sure of ourselves? Or of God...what kind of world would this be if everyone was unsure about everything they believed or did. America would probably be something else, if the pilgrims were so unsure about what they were doing, that they stayed home. We would not have made it to the moon if we were so unsure about it that we scrapped the idea.
I am sure about my convictions. Are they 100% correct? No. But as I said in another post, there are many things that I once believed in that I found were wrong. It wasn't the continued harassment from another person that brought that change. It was the gentle urging and teaching of His Spirit that did it.

To Tom, thank you for your thoughts, and if prayer does work, lets hope it will show me the way one day. A side note, something that Prophet has read in another thread... I am just amazed at how sure you guys are of yourself... Its as if theres no room for error, as if you guys believe everything you say is true because it is based on the word of God... honestly I think the only person that can be 100% of themselves is God. You guys dont even offer your solutions as suggestions you dont say 'well maybe you should try this' you say 'DO IT!' of course non-believers are going to recoil at such attitudes...

right on, Tom!

If I might add to Prophets words of wisdom. Bobc reminds me of a little boy who isn't getting his way so he is throwing a temper tantrum and calling out I hate you I hate you. (come to think of it kind of like how I was before I came to Christ). but as we all know who bend the knee to this Savior, it is quite evident God is really after him and it is quite humorous to see this battle being fought between Gods Spirit which is drawing Him and the evil one along with Bobc spirit fighting it. Praise God for His love for all people that He would send His Son to die for us, yes even Bobc, as well as TokenSP and others. Thanks you God for Bobc. Bobc we all are praying for you, and for Token Sp, Torus, Fallenman, What a testimony they will have.
Gods Blessing on you all
In Christ
Tom

Annie,
Let me tell you somethiing about Bob. He's a hard core atheist. He's not an atheist in the intellectual sense, he's an atheist out of anger. He's angry at a God who loves him enough to not what him to get hurt or go to hell. he's an atheist because he thinks God is just trying to ruin his fun. Bob wants to do what he wants without accountability. without consequences. i've known other people like that. they've all been mistreated by their fathers. not sure if that's his case, but its possible.

Prayer is me communicating with my Heavenly Father. Prayer has actually lifted me out of depression and God has restored my mental health!!!! It is awesome the way God works in our lives when we walk in obedience to Him.

Praying is talking to yourself. It's a mental illness.

Amen WSAGOH!! The message of Chronicles is for GOD's people! Let us all join with the brethren in Georga and repent of our wicked ways; we have done evil in the face of our great God! We need to humble ourselves, and seek His mercy! He is a most loving and merciful God!
There is a cry going forth throughout the nation (and where I am in the northeast also) many brethren are crying out to God in full repentence.

Our prayer is that the body of Christ will join hands in prayer seeking the Lord's forgiveness for the spiritual barrenness in our nation; that we have allowed to take place and seek the Lord's help in restoring what the locusts have eaten (Joel 2:25)!

Prayer is the best thing we can do at this time in our nation and for many who may not know this; President Bush is a man of prayer; I am a member of the President's prayer team; (many of us who pray for the President) and other leaders both in the government and within the Church.

Today is the day to lift up the Name of our LORD! The King is at the door; don't be found sleeping when He comes! Just as the maidens who found themselves short of oil, don't find yourselves short of oil, "for those who have an ear, listen to what The Spirit is saying."

Hallelujah!!! The King is coming! Ride on King Jesus! - In Jesus' love - Annie

"And the Lord appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice. If I shut up heaven that there BE NO RAIN, or or if I command the locuss to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people: If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and forgive their sin, and will heal their land". - 2 Chronicles 7:12-14. We that are called by the name of the Living God should take it upon ourselves and intercede on the behalf of the people of this nation. While their is a physical drought in Georgia, there is a spiritual one in the whole nation. We are in desperate need of humility, prayer, seeking God, and repentance. This is the judgment of God on the earth--- it's preparing itself for the return of the Lord (signs in the earth). Spiritually we have become barren and dry. My brothers and sisters, if the drought is a punishment for our sinful ways, take heed and seek restoration. But if it is the judgment of God on the earth, do not be trouble because these things must come to pass. Your redemption draws nigh. GOd bless.

There is no where in The Constitution where it says that a Governor cannot be a Christian; and he's free to express his faith as well; his rights do not stop at the door of the State House.
It's refreshing to see a leader in our nation seeking God's help! More should try this.

In the wake of all the violence and trouble in our nation; we ought to all get to our knees and repent of the sin in our nation corporately and privately.

For all those who say there is no God; that is your choice. The Lord told us that in the end times, scoffers would come and deny Him and even try and lead others away from God.

I do not care one whit what others say about my God; HE is quite able to defend Himself. He is my Defender and Refuge and I am PROUD to call upon my GOD and I stand with The Governor of Georgia and the people and ask our God to send relief in refreshing and healing rains!

Almighty God is not man; that is the mistake so many folks make, making God in man's image. God is beyond the mind and scope of man. God is not a liar and He's not a man to change HIS mind!

God's Word is truth and every man a liar!!! I have learned in my 50 years the truth of that Biblical statement. God bless Governor Sonny and the people of Georgia.

For those who deny God; well you will find out one day (and everyone will) sadly how wrong you are.
The "Rain falls on the just and the unjust." How far does God have to go to get your attention??
and yet people still deny Him.
Stop putting human attributes on God and you may discover as I did that HE is quite real and He's an amazing Father and full of compassion and mercy for all He's made.

I think with all the resources God has blessed mankind with, it is truly a sin that anyone is starving. However, God is not to blame, how about regimes of people who prevent the aid and services from getting into the very people (their people) who need it most.

Howabout that man has the medicines also and many other items to SHARE with others and do NOT! How about those of some on this very site who perhaps have NEVER given to anyone.
Take a look at your own life and what you've done or not done, before pointing fingers at anyone else.

Jesus Christ is the answer to any and every question and problem; but God isn't going to force anyone to accept this. For His Glory! Annie

I live in Georgia and very proud to say that our Governor had the courage and humility to
ask God's favor at this time of drought. I came to this country in 1971 as a student and living
here ever since. God has been so good to this country, and when we fail to understand His
provision and mercy, He will try to teach us a lesson that we are not giving due honor to Him.
We all need to humble ourselves and seek God's face with broken hearts. When the rain comes, the ungodly, rationalists and everybody else can enjoy the blessings of clean cars,
green lawns, bumper harvest and low price.