A provocative film to be released next year is uncovering a conspiracy among educators to “expel” professors who question Darwinism.
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'Expelled' Exposes Plight of Darwin Doubters
By
Michelle Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Fri, Nov. 30 2007 08:40 AM EST
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Comments
ifeelfine,
The site that you cite is obviously wrong about what ID is. It is not "Bible-based creationism dressed up as science." If they are not arguing against actual ID then I do not care about one thing they say. The individual ousted could have been against her interpretation of Bible-based creationism, which if she interpreted in the wrong way could definitely be against science (and the Bible for that matter) To even suggest that the ID community is oppressing the scientific community is ridiculous anyways, that would be like a patriarchal society saying that women are oppressing men, and then citing one example of a woman who had oppressed a woman dressed up as a man as an example of the oppression.
if you dont mind giving me the link to this information, i would like to check it out...
what stuff have i made up?
jester - you should talk. I've seen some of the stuff you make up on this site. How about I call you out and ask you to cite every thing you post. I've seen two numbers online now - 20M and 60M.
BTW: just to talk about subject of the post - this story was online today: http://www.caller.com/news/2007/dec/04/official-forced-out-for-telling-the-truth-on/
Who's censoring whom?
GMG...what DON'T i say that would get me flagged? Actully, I flagged myself because what i wrote wasn't contreversial enough. hahaha. kidding. no, i typed something and then re-read it and decided I really didnt want to say that.
ifeelfine...an athiest website? and you still admit it? "three times the number I quoted but could not validate the how many are in earth sciences. 20M seems about right." so, you're still pulling numbers out of your orifice? you sure 20milion isnt be too generous? how about just 20?
i'll take you serious when you start using actual statistics.
GMG - I'll tell you where I got the numbers and then it should be self evident why I want them validated before sharing where I got the info. I got them off an athiest website but didn't want to cite that as a souce.
I found on Yahoo that one estimate is there are 60,000,000 scientists in the world - three times the number I quoted but could not validate the how many are in earth sciences. 20M seems about right.
and jester, what did you say THIS time, the least you can do is wait until I read it to get yourself flagged!!!
Ok Ifeelfine, it's just that your post was Sunday morn, and your figures and info seemed pretty specific, so I for one assumed you got it off a web site and could take us to it, but I'm certainly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.
what? my colors weren't showing earlier? I'm losing my edge....
where did you get your degree from topekan?
Topekan - now you're ripping on my college?
Jester - thanks for showing your true colors.
sorry, ifeelfine, i thought you knew what you were talking about. my bad.
Is Central Michigan University accredited now?
Jester and GMG - I told you I am working on it. I have one source but want to validate it before sharing. If you held yourselves up to the standard you are holding me up to, neither of you would ever post a thing.
He has no answer. Thats what happens when you make up stuff and get called on it.....silence.
jester - I've asked him too, and he hasn't answered me either.
ifeelfine:
you said "Jester - look it up online - that is where I found it."
Where at online? what's the link?
professor x I like your web site---I'm thinking that Ifeelfine and others should go there.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com
no where in the bible does it promote racism. However MEN that lacked or lack a true revelation of God will twist it to conform their ignorance.
Also GMG thanks for allowing me to join the club...lol.
http://www.biblebelievers.net/CreationScience/kjcevol1.htm
http://www.soulcare.org/Creation/Evolution.html
these are just a few.
GMG - The teachers I mention are some type of earth science teacher (biology, geology, etc) - not the first grade teacher or high school history teacher. I'll do what I can to cite the source as well.
GMG - Tom cited the source already (I haven't double checked it but I know Darwin said something pretty similar so it is probably correct), it is in one of Darwin's books. And I believe it might be one of the books that Google books has so look it up. Cheers!
Ifeelfine - Some of these 20 mil scientists include teachers? How do you logically define a teacher as a scientist? Who else would be in this group other than what the normal joe would define as a scientist? And at the risk of sounding impertinent, it is difficult to judge the veracity of an author we can't identify, and thereby make any reasonable assumption as to how this author arrived at this conclusion. Did he actually poll 20 mil people, or did he arrive at this figure through extrapolation? And why just the earth sciences? I wouldn't think someone in earth sciences would be particularly versed on DNA, for instance.
Tom - You're right, most scientists in Darwins time thought he was wrong - for the same reasons you all do - misguided religious ones. After examining the evidence, they came around.
Darwin wasn't a prophet, he was a scientist. Some of what he said was proven wrong by other scientists and some of what he said was incorrect speculation, nevertheless, evolution has been proven time and time again. Whether you want to believe it or not, which clearly you don't as you don't even pretend to understand how it works or what it is (equating it with religion, stating ridiculous platitudes, etc), evolution is here to stay.
BTW: Some outside of our faith claim the Bible is racist too - we know that's not true but you have to admit, its been used to justify some pretty horrible things over the centuries.
BooGieONdown - oooooooh, that's a bit of an indictment in the way of Darwin's "logical reasoning" I would say, care to provide the web site you got that from so our evolutionists can research it some? Ifeelfine, if Boogie gives us his, will you give Jester yours?
And Boogie, welcome to the young earth creationists club with Tom and I.
Hi Tom, hey how come they flagged you over on that other article - you were in good company with the atheists it would seem!!
Furthermore, Darwin proposed that the 'fight for survival' also applied between human racial groups. According to that fantastical claim, 'favoured races' were victorious in the struggle. Favoured races, in Darwin's view, were white Europeans. African or Asian races had lagged behind in the struggle for survival. Darwin went further, and suggested that these races would soon lose the "struggle for survival" entirely, and thus disappear:
At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes… will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.1
. Charles Darwin, The Descent of Man, 2nd edition, New York, A L. Burt Co., 1874, p. 178
my prvious statement was according to this.
Also the theory of evolution, under the surface, has a racist message. Are whites fully evoled while All others and still taking their time to catch up.
i thought carpon dating was proven wrong? Have you ever heard of Kent Hovid? (i think thats how you spell his name). i dont think the earth been around as long as many scientist say. 1 book will say 40 million years ago and anouth 9 billion years ago. The earth been around 6k yrs. and yes we have evoled not from apes but in our thoughts and perciption of things; inventions and such. but we were created by God.
Hi GMG and Prophet and all Yep I can imagine ifeelfine is just fuming in is till death do you part belief in his religion of evolution. ifeefine did you know that most scientist at the time of Darwin didn't believe in evolution? That doesn't discount the observations and conclusions of a growing number of scientisit that evolution is as put forth by your prophet darwin is false. hey by the way i can't find any phd attached to darwin cept one in theology, doesn't that seem strange? Gods Blessing
In Christ
Toml
And scientists include all branches of earth science (that includes teachers, etc)
Jester - look it up online - that is where I found it.
ifeelfine, where'd you find those statistics? I'd like to look it up for myself...
Tom - There are close to 20,000,000 scientists in the world, less than 1,000 of them take ID seriously in other words, 99.99995% of them don't take ID seriously. I've read a fair bit on both and the "ID theory" always seems to come down to bashing evolution. There doesn't seem to be a real, testable theory.
Fred - all you need to do is read and see the evidence. Faith is not required in this instance. I have no problems believing in evolution and believing in God. I think evolution makes God that much more awesome. Everything just showing up sounds more like a magic trick (which I don't believe in) than the mighty power of GOD!!! IMHO
GMG - sorry I did not answer your question. Double major in American History and Journalism (a pre-law emphasis)
Where did the matter come from that produced the "Big Bang"? How does a one cell amoeba gain DNA info to mutate millions of times progressively, by continual mutations-gaining positve DNA info millions of times, until it is successful in finding ANOTHER similarly mutated thing that it is able to successfully mate with? How was the DNA ever organized into a living thing to begin with, using pot luck mutations? How can anybody believe that junk and not admit it takes more faith than many Christians have? Darwinism is absolutely unbelievable except as a matter of faith. This new film is showing a new kind of Inquesition. It is just as ugly on the inside as the RCC's Inquesition.
Some theologians claim that in Genesis 1 between verse 1 and 2 is a huge gap. That there may have been another earth that God had made at one time, but then "made it void and formless", which they say would be where the dinosaur fossils came from. I don't know if i subscribe to that or not. But it could be very well be true. So the earth itself could be older than a couple thousand years...but still fit in with what the Bible is saying.
Tom, so you belive that God made the earth in 6 days, rested on the 7th, and the earth is approximalely 6000 years old, or at least something close to that time frame? That's a young earth creationist?
Well, if that's what a young earth creationist is, then I now have a name for my belief also (and boy isn't that about to get us into trouble!!!!!!!).
GMG My understanding is there is two theories concerning Creation. Both concerning the time span that Genesis talks about. I.E Either a long period of time or 6 actual days with the 7 a day of rest.
Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
Tom, what is a young earth creationist?
Ifeelfine - My degree is in nursing. What's yours in?
ifeelfine by your own admission you have said your not a expert, but yet you bad mouth and question the intelligence of those who have spent most of their lives studing evolution and it's evidence and/or lack of it. People like Behe,(PHD biochemistry), dembski, (PHD mathematics), Wells, (molecular and cell biology and religious studies), yes there is some controversy but they are not like you or myself, average Joes or Josephine. They acually live this stuff, study it research it and their number is growing ifeelfine. Growing and the research is getting better. Like it or not your diatribes on it not being a science is so lame, it is almost humorous if it wasn't so sad that someone who says they are a Christian can't see the Creator for what He has done and instead tries to rely on his own understanding. That is your prerogative but if you can't look at all the different theories out there and seek to find His truth then you are even more closed minded then the Christian you constantly riducue for their steadfast beliefs. You see. All we do starts with the belief in a God, the Creator and His Bible and what He says in it. Just like you and those that believe in you alls world view have your own presupposition and start your quest from there. I have read both sides of the story ifeelfine for some 50 years now. I was taught it in school a long time ago, read books and articles on it, then started to see that maybe, just maybe there wasn't as much evidence as you all claim. In fact there is none for the evolution that was preach by Darwin. I personally am a young earth creationist but am intrugue by the Science of Intelligent Design and Creationism. Evolutionist at times strike me as spoiled children that wants it their way or they will just take their ball and go home. Anyway it is a fallen world indeed. Gods Blessing on you and yours.
In Christ
Tom
Anyway, the claim this article makes is happening the other direction too. Check this out:
http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2007/11/expelled-texas.html
Nope - I would bet that every poster here is more knowledgable about some subjects than me. What drives me nuts is when folks pretend that ID is science. And their basic premise is, ID is science because evolution is false.
It seems Ifeelfine is jealous because someone knows more than him,.
eahaddix - What website did you get that off of? It sounds like regurgitated Discovery Institute bull. Methodological Naturalism is just another straw man thrown up by the DI
And people try to persuade me that Darwinism isn't a religion.
Gosh eahaddix, I lost you after the first few sentences. Guess we know why I'm not a scientist! Pretty impressive.
Ifeelfine - What field is your Bachelor of Science degree in?
ifeelfine72, why is Intelligent Design (ID) not scientific? Because Intelligent Design invokes "unfalsifiable metaphysical presuppositions"?
Let us be fair about this, ifeelfine72. Contrary to your presuppositions, Evolutionary theory contains unfalsifiable philosophical metaphysics as well. Specifically, Evolutionary theory is epistemologically constructed with Methodological Naturalism, a methodology which logically concludes with Metaphysical or Ontological Naturalism. To illustrate how Methodological Naturalism logically concludes with Metaphysical or Ontological Naturalism, consider the following line of thinking:
P1. Since Science cannot test for, examine, and/or falsify supernatural explanations of physical phenomena, Evolutionists believe that Science must employ methodologically naturalistic investigation for all physical phenomena. Otherwise, Evolutionists claim that Science exceeds its own limitations and violates its own nature.
P2A. Methodologically naturalistic investigation must yield naturalistic observations and explanations. Otherwise, methodologically naturalistic investigation contradicts its own parameters.
P2B. A naturalistic explanation of a physical phenomenon must presuppose a naturalistic chain of events. Otherwise, if a supernatural cause breaks the said chain of causation in any way, then the physical phenomenon in question ceases to be naturalistic in nature.
P3. If methodologically naturalistic investigation does not postulate any supernatural explanations for any physical phenomena, then Science inherently presupposes Metaphysical or Ontological Naturalism.
For further reading, read the article entitled "Naturalism: Is it Necessary?" by John S. Wilkins @ TalkOrigins.org.
As a result, Evolutionists create a self-contradictory Philosophy of Science. Specifically, they use the limitations of Science as a basis for advocating Naturalism, yet advocating Naturalism violates the limitations of Science.
Tom - You clearly don't know what a scientific theory is. . . but it seems as though you have no interest in knowing. A theory is a collection of facts to support some proveable observation. Only the natural is included - despite what the folks at the DI would have you believe. They want to change the definition of science. Evolution is a theory just like gravity is a theory.
Tom - If there were a "completing" theory, I would be all for teaching it but ID is not science.
Again I ask then what are you all afraid of,,, let the completing theories be debated in the schools of this counties. I think I know the answer but I would get in trouble if I stated it here.
Gods Blessing and have a good weekend
In Christ
Tom
Tom - You're wrong. A scientific theory is a collection of facts (better than "a" fact). ID is just an idea that cannot be tested or proven.
And when he said "it is a bankrupt hypothesis with no real grounding in reality" I want to know what expertise he has in saying that. I didn't proclaim to be an expert. But for the record, Central Michigan University is where I got my Bachelor's of Science degree.
further more in the many books and articles I have read both for and against i would say there really isn't any experts for evolution, or at least the evolution that your hero Darwin preached as it keeps changing from day to day. So Mr. Evolution what are you guys afraid so much that you absolutely can't handle dissention of any sort, isn't that well a bit cowardly. and don't give me this stuff about the other points of view not being scientific. Till one is proven they are all theories and as such you have to have faith that your particualr world view is true. So again what are you all afraid of. Man am I crabby. Sorry, Gods Blessing
In Christ
Tom
Gods Blessing on you
In Christ
Tom
This story is reminiscent of the McCarthy Trials of the 50's. Sounds rather ominous, but just wait. Maybe we'll start hearing incidents of professors being allowed to keep their jobs if they name a few names.
Should we start calling spiritual warfare the "Spiritual Cold-War"?
ifeelfine72--- Do you not read sir or do just question the ability of others to debate and put forth their thoughts. I would like to throw the question back to you where did you get your degree from and what make you such an expert.
Gods Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom
Obiwan - where did you get your biology degree from and how is it that you are an expert in evolution?
Exactly. There are a rather large number of biblical creationists at major universities who are unable to speak their mind due to fears over losing fellowships or tenure. If Darwinian evolution is so obviously the truth, why not allow others to question it? That should serve to make it stronger, not weaker. The fact is it is a bankrupt hypothesis with no real grounding in reality, and therefore it can't be touched.
And evolutionist call Christians hypocrites. Whatever happen to exploring all the evidence?
Gods Blessing on you and yours
In Christ
Tom