Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Clinton made what some called a “gutsy move” this past week when she appeared at a conservative evangelical megachurch to talk about AIDS.
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Clinton's 'Gutsy' Church Appearance Softens Evangelicals
By
Michelle Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Sat, Dec. 01 2007 08:17 PM EST
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the demons believe and tremble folks.
what a waste of editorial space.
Does the fact that some early presidents owned slaves (who were freed upon their deaths), does that justify a president committing adultery??? I fail to see any logic, much less Biblical truth, there.
i'd say adultery, that is one thing that corrupts the soul,
servanthood and its extremity forms dont do much but make one lazy.
I wonder what God considered worse, someone in the White House who was an adulterer or someone in the White House who owned slaves?
maranatha
you took the words RIGHT outta my mouth.
yknow
that's much like child molestation, everyone seems fine about UNTIL it is made public. weird huh?
With all due respect, I haven't had the impression that Bill and Hillary have had a bona fide marriage. Arkansas State Troopers told of cordoning off city blocks when he was governor there so he could conduct his various liasons without it being public knowledge. It has seemed to me that this marriage for Hillary has been more of a business venture to advance her career, and that she was running the country as much as (if not more than) he when he held the title of president. Back in the olden days, this type of marriage of termed a marriage of convenience. In that light, I don't see that she had anything to "forgive", really, as they've both kept their end of the bargain in that respect. She seemed to be fine with the Monica mess *until* it became public knowledge.
hillary? forgive?
is it even legal to say those words together?
that woman is bloodless, so cold she could could kill a volcano or two just by jumping in! (heck, maybe i should throw her in one to see for myself XD)
point being, she has no capacity for moral action in her soul, let her be president and there will be no USA after her term(s). and should that happen, i will be taking solace in my secondary choices of residence, free of her poisonous influence.
and last time i checked, true liberals dont forgive, they indirectly destroy their opposers through the hands they bribe or con. a vicious cycle. get too close and she'll swallow you whole, like a wolf.
You inspire me to recognize the existence of a new level to the word 'audacity' and how one can acheive this, by staying married to a known adulterer(among other things), a feat i cannot match with any other person(s). Read Hosea 1:2. If she finds forgives in her heart, who are you to pass judgement. Forgiveness of other is a command. She has a right to leave him if she chooses. How many times has God forgiven you for breaking His commandments, statues, and judgements? If you break any part of the law you are guilty of breaking it all.
And holito, when did Jesus or the Apostles ever endorse a non-believer giving a sermon? Give me Scripture and versein context to support your premise. We are to discern good from evil holito. I am not judging those that are in the world and are blinded by sin, nor am I saying that everyone is perfect. I'm simply making a statement reflective of the fact that at a church, you do not bring in a candidate who is pro choice and allow them to speak from the pulpit where people are to hear the Whole Counsel of God; not this "social gospel".
Read Deut: 30:15-20, God has laid what He wants His people to do. God gave them a choice ,as Moses states, of live or death. Now if we pass a law of prolife, God is life; So all pagan(s) and non-religious (not really a group) person should be force to worship Him and follow His laws. We could start the crusade all over again.... O joy!. Lets be real are you guilty of break any of the laws of God. Has any of the other candidates been using their beliefs for support or is Hiliary breaking new ground? God allowed you to choose Him.
Are we Christians or pagan pretending to be Christians? Many people are picking and choosing what to follow. Many of us are pointing fingers outward first before pointing inward. Let us not be hypocrites. Do you really think God does not see what you are doing. We are suppose the set the example of holiness, not be a holy terror. We are suppose to walk, talk and be godly. We aren't advocating abstinence; we aren't teaching the blessing and curses. We are in a spiritua battlel. In war, you choice who you will follow.
i know what this is like
liek giving Satan the Key to the City and have him preach before a worldwide christian audience with their undivided attention to him!
YOU MAKE ME SICK CLINTON, EVERY LAST ONE OF YOU!
I need to wash this psychological filth from my heart now, but on a funny note, here are three POSITIVE things for Hillary,
1. I love how your nice woman facade is skin deep, like a shiny gold plate i cant see through easily!
2. You amaze me in ways never before for running for president, it wouldnt surprise me if one of us tried to assasinate you at your inauguration.(note i said IF)
3.You inspire me to recognize the existence of a new level to the word 'audacity' and how one can acheive this, by staying married to a known adulterer(among other things), a feat i cannot match with any other person(s).
there i tried XDDD
oh, and WHO is our prime represetative candidate for the presedency this time? I'm gonna miss Bush and all he's doing.
God forbid we should ever have Ahab and Jezebel back in office again.
holito8 wrote:
" But if you want to throw stone at Hiliary for being prochoice, you need to also throw stones at drug addicts, drunk drivers, robbers and thieves, prostitutes and fornicators, adulterers, liars, and pagans. Now if you have done any one of these things, first stand and let yourself get the first stoning."
And holito, when did Jesus or the Apostles ever endorse a non-believer giving a sermon? Give me Scripture and versein context to support your premise. We are to discern good from evil holito. I am not judging those that are in the world and are blinded by sin, nor am I saying that everyone is perfect. I'm simply making a statement reflective of the fact that at a church, you do not bring in a candidate who is pro choice and allow them to speak from the pulpit where people are to hear the Whole Counsel of God; not this "social gospel".
jc4me, Are we supposed to bring a secular candidate that is in favor of killing unborn children to the pulpit of a church that claims they teach the Bible correctly?
So you have a right to tell people not to sin and enforce it, Excellent, Let's open more jails. Remember God hold no sin greater than the next one. God does not lose anything that is His. You worry about things that are not. God said He would bring into existance those things that are not as though they were, not you with God all things are possible. God gave us the right to choose life or death; God gave you, not some any man. He expects up to make the right CHOICE. You have to choose not to sin. God gave you His laws, and His people will follow them. We don't alway make the right choice, but the ability to choose is still there. When you take that choice away, you then become ruler and rule with a rod of iron. Now the same rod you choose to rule with might hit you over the head. Man is not able to rule justly or fairly. But if you want to throw stone at Hiliary for being prochoice, you need to also throw stones at drug addicts, drunk drivers, robbers and thieves, prostitutes and fornicators, adulterers, liars, and pagans. Now if you have done any one of these things, first stand and let yourself get the first stoning. However, you won't be around for the next one, because you have died for your sin. Its easy to throw stone at others but no ourselves.
Mr. Warren is part of the emerging church of deceit just like Brian Mclaren, Rob Bell, Doug Pagitt, and many other's too numerous to mention. This moement is creating a bridge to Roman Catholicism and "Orthodox Biblical Christianity" If you want to learn more on the damage this liberal/post modern movement is doing to the work of our Lord Christ Jesus, then go to www.understandtetimes.org, and www.apprising.org. I hope this helps give you a idea, that this is just another sign of the latter part of the end times where the Bible speaks of false teachers.
I just want to make people aware in this post modern culture the dangers of the emergent church movement. And, yes, I agree wholeheartedly on showing Christ-like compassion to those in need by helping their physical needs, but we need to be careful not to use wordly ways of doing so; including letting Hillary Rhodam Clinton an enemy of the Cross of Christ to speak at this "so called Saddleback evangelical church". The church needs to influence the world; not the world influence the church. What many of these movements are doing is showing humanitarian compassion, but not sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ. In this case, the Warrens have endorsed an ecumenical forum of democrats and republicans (believers and non believers alike) (light and darkness working together) trying to figure out a human solution to a clearly spiritual problem.
If you don't address the root cause of AIDS, then you will mearly put a bandade on the disease, and not address the true issues behind why it spreads. I do believe in educating peple on AIDS, but I believe if people were just to repent of their sins, and give their hearts to Jesus Christ as Lord and as Savior, and if they would read their Bibles more and see what God has to say about homosexuality, bi-sexuality, bestiality, pedophilia, adultery, fornication, pornography, drug use, and other forms of sex sex outside the confines of God's order of marriage between one man and one woman, then we would't be in such a rut financially as well as emotionally about the issue. I say there are many missionary organizations that preach the Gospel Truth out there and while their preaching and teaching the Truth, they then address the Physical sicknesses of the people. One of them is Gospel for Asia. There are others, but we need to remember that this "Purpose Driven" Agenda is more man driven than Jesus Driven, and we must be on the lookout for a very real enemy called Satan who disguises himself as an angel of light and will try to deceive even the elect if that were possible. Jesus Christ is the true healer of our hearts and our behaviors and our sins, and every other twisted thing in this world if we only come and confess to Him our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
Continued:
Here is some proof of Hillary's abortion stance which is not only immoral, but can be considered murder biblically speaking.
Article: A Look Back at Senator Hillary Clinton's January 25, 2005 Speech on "Reproductive Rights"
http://www.thinkinboutstuff.com/thinkinboutstuff/nfblog/clinton_abortion.html.
Besides, when has God ever exhorted a pastor to work along side unbelievers in getting His work done. The Bible teaches us to preach the Gospel and live our lives in such a way that our very lives are te living breathing Gospel of Christ being shown in our way of life. It nowhere exhort us to pull in an ecumenical drive of politicians, pro-abortion groups, pro-gay groups and secular media to try to fill up a mega church. No, in fact, if you want to see a model for church growth - it's not "purpose Driven" for that matter; rather it is found in the Book of Acts. God added to their numbers daily; not Rick Waren, not the emerging church movement, not some new church growth program that is new and improved, not some other book for 7.99 a copy if your church purchases more than 100 copies specifically to teach a man's agenda on "purpose Driven" or "man Driven" or what not for a small study group, not some TV evangelist who sells dolls with themself and their wife with a small glass jar with "jerusalem holy water and a show that is so spectacular with glitze and glamour, not where wordly politicians get screen play, and few "evangelicals" or in this case i should say a few "ecumenicals" choose to allow this "social gospel arena to take place.
Now let's see some of you are saying not to speak about Hillary Clinton in a negative light, or call her immoral unless there is proof. Are we supposed to bring a secular candidate that is in favor of killing unborn children to the pulpit of a church that claims they teach the Bible correctly? God exhorts us to love the sinner, but hate the sin. Where in the New Testament did the Apostles let a secular non believer who obviously had many things to say about Biblical Christianity take a speech on one of their missionary trips. NO, this is nonsense, while we are not supposed to be backbiting, we are supposed to discern good and evil, the Bereans searched the Scriptures daily to see if what was being taught was true. We are not supposed to allow non-Christians that are flat out and flagrant in the things they do that are openly against the Bible to take the pulpit in a church; no matter how well meaning they may be. If there is no fruit of repentance and giving their lives to Christ, how can this Pastor justify putting this woman on the pulpit to speak? How can he justify the things this woman along with her husband and many on the democratic as well as some liberal republicans have done to shame the name of Christianity. Does not the Book Of Jude exhort us to contend for the faith, and does not Paul exhort Timothy to teach sound doctrine and contend for the faith handed down to him?
Christian beware!!! She will lie to you to get your vote! Hillary Clinton, like Bill, will say whatever she thinks you want to hear to get your vote. Shame on you if you fall for it.
She is a wolf in sheeps clothing and shame on Rick Warren and Saddleback for letting her have the platform. She has her religion, a belief in the power of power.
She needs Jesus, Pray for her, but do not vote for her.
Now Hiliary may have her fault but name a candidate that does not. Let not be finger pointing at her only when there are other just as bad. We should take this opportunity as believer, and pray for a leader God wants us to elect. If God bring them into your mist, you can then see them for who they are. God will reveal what needs to be known. Do not make crued remarks about her unless you do it about everyone, including yourself. She has a nice color of lipstick. Let not says she is immoral unless you can prove it; These are harsh things Christians are not suppose to be doing. We are not suppose to be acting like pagan or non-believers with no "Head." The Head gives direction to the hold body, not the body to the Head. The body does not act with it own agenda against the head. We are to be the example.
Awwwww, you're right. It's important to be nice to everyone. Everybody who was mean to Hillary must now say three nice things about her. (Mother used to make us do this when we fought. It was either that or hold hands and sing...*shudder*) Here I go:
1) It's good that Hillary wants to stop the spread of AIDS
2) I'm glad Hillary is taking an interest in all sectors of the population.
3) She has a nice color of lipstick.
Why is it when Christians disagree with someone, people say we hate them? Hate, "Intense hostility, dislike or animosity toward something or someone". Because I disagree with homosexuality, I am now labeled as a "homophobic". Homophobic, "a non-clinical term used to describe the fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals. It can also mean hatred, hostility, disapproval of, or prejudice towards homosexuals, or homosexual behavior or cultures". That's a pretty broad definition considering I just disagree with you.
I agree we need to combat AIDS in the world and we need to ease the suffering of those infected. I agree we should try to iradicate Malaria (and Dengue Fever for that matter)in Africa (and in Central America where I serve). Who wouldn't. Any person with a quarter ounce of compassion would agree.
When you allow a politician who declares they are a "Christian" but clearly has some core values and beliefs that are in direct contradiction to the Word of God to speak in your church, you automatically award them a large amount of credibility and support. That is a fact. Whether you agree with them or not.
Hillary and I disagree on abortion and same sex marriage (among other things), but no one seems to accuse Hillary of hating me. No one accuses her of being "Pro-Life-a-Phobic". Why is that?
The Lord God tells us to pray for all leaders, that would include Hilary Clinton. She is not beneath our prayers and is in need of God's grace. God tells us to be careful what we approve of. We will stand before Him one day and have to give an account of ourselves.
It is not necessary to make personal digs at Hilary or any other person for that matter to disagree with her views and beliefs. Jesus loves and died for Hilary as well.
Hilary is saying she is a Christian, well, only God knows her heart, yes we can look at the fruit or lack of it in her life; and we can discern that we need to pray for her that The Holy Spirit will convict her on those things where she or anyone else is not inline with the Holy Scriptures.
I do not agree with Hilary on so many points; but I do love her in Christ and pray that the Holy Spirit will indeed convict her and lead her into The Truth!
To whom much is given, much is required. God is the One who allows all men/women to hold the positions they hold, so they are especially accountable for what they teach/preach!
JC, thanks for the info, it's certainly eye-opening.
This is true.
Politics are a dirty machine, aren't they. It seems like the best people for president would never want to be one...
I don't understand why everyone is getting on Hilary for her political rhetoric. She is running for President and has a certain constituency she is trying to win over. She is saying what she feels she needs to say to get elected. But, so are the Republican candidates. They are all scrambling to prove which one is the most "Christian". Mike Huckabee is doing the exact think that Clinton is. He is saying what most people posting here want to here.
Hillary Quotes:
1. “There is a great deal of political pressure to only talk about abstinence, and to deny support for condoms and education on using them. This policy will lead to the unnecessary deaths of many people.”
2. “We come to the abortion issue as men and women, young and old, some far beyond years when we have to worry about getting pregnant, others too young to remember what it was like in the days before Roe v. Wade. But I think it’s essential that as Americans we look for that common ground that we can all stand upon. Our core beliefs and values. can guide us in reaching our goal of keeping abortion safe, legal and rare into the next century.”
3. “Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage always has been, between a man and a woman.”
Granted, #3 above looks good, but compare it to the vote in June 2006 (# 7 below). Hypocrisy at it’s best.
How did she end up at this church, speaking. It sounds as if she probably should have been listening instead of talking.
----------------
Hillary’s voting record:
1. Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
2. Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
3. Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
4. Voted NO on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
5. Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)
6. Voted NO on recommending Constitutional ban on flag desecration. (Jun 2006)
7. Voted NO on constitutional ban of same-sex marriage. (Jun 2006)
8. Voted YES on adding sexual orientation to definition of hate crimes. (Jun 2002)
9. Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies. (Jun 2007)
10. Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. (Mar 2005)
11. Voted NO on limiting medical liability lawsuits to $250,000. (May 2006)
12. Voted NO on extending the PATRIOT Act's wiretap provision. (Dec 2005)
13. Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
14. Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
15. Voted NO on confirming Samuel Alito as Supreme Court Justice. (Jan 2006)
16. Voted NO on confirming John Roberts for Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. (Sep 2005)
-----------------
We as Christians are very much advised to discern "the fruit" that comes from others. Is it bad fruit or good fruit? I personally would have never invited Senator Clinton to speak at a church I was a pastor of, but I would invite her to attend in the congregation, as it appears she needs more instructions on what defines a Christian.
WOW! It must be great to have excellent speech writers to prepare a script designed to represent you as something that you are not! At the end of all the best silvery-tongued rhetoric someone else's money can buy, it still must be remembered that Hillary Clinton is not what she appears to be (especially in a church environment!). Anyone can promise to spend millions to 'stamp out malaria.' However, if you understand that she's going to be spending your money, whether you can afford it or not, you will listen more closely to her empty promises. CLUE: When a wealthy person says he or she is going to GIVE money to support the poor, make sure he or she is not talking about giving YOUR money for his or her special interests! With regards to what Christians ought to be doing, if someone is a Christian, he or she is "like Christ." If you want to make Jesus out to be more like this or that candidate, you will be putting the cart before the horse. Just read God's Word and you'll see what Jesus is like. Be aware that Jesus said those who were His disciples (like Him) would be hated by this world! Although many Christians are praying daily for a National Revival - that means a season of repentance and recommittment to the Word of God and Jesus as Lord on the part of all Americans - those who are most interested in the misnomer 'separation of church and state' will never agree to such a season. Would Hillary? Would you?
1Co 5:9-11 I wrote to you in my letter to stop associating with people who are sexually immoral- (10) not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or greedy people, robbers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. (11) But now I am writing to you to stop associating with any so-called brother if he is sexually immoral, greedy, an idolater, a slanderer, a drunk, or a robber. With such a person you must even stop eating.
If Hiliary is claiming to be one of "Us" then I think we need to do what the scriptures have called us to do, stop associating with her altogether. We have no need for Leaven friends as it will ruin the whole loaf!
Jester - what are you talking about? I didn't even make any comments on this post . . . yet.
Most of the folks on this particular post show their true colors. They show they are more interested in right wing politics than any true talk about Christianity and love. GMG, jc4me, Strudelcookies, et al - you should be absolutely ashamed of yourselves. I'm most likely not going to vote for her either but to attack a brother in Christ like that - amazing.
<<"It was a great political move for Senator Clinton to appear and give a great speech on what we all care about AIDS but a very divisive way of swinging the evangelical vote by taking the spotlight off of what we all as Christians stand for and that is ending abortion and standing for marriage between one man and one woman.">>
Ah, and here I thought Christians were supposed to be standing for spreading the gospel and making disciples.
Politics pulls Christians away from what they're truly supposed to be doing. If we were truly making disciples (and BEING disciples) many of the social injustices Christians rail against would be taken care of.
How can we expect to eliminate AIDS when we are still teaching our teens in American High School how to better spread it and other STD among themselves? They fail and refuse to tell them that HIV is so small that it passes right through all latex and various condoms. Pedophile men and women have crept into our public schools in order to rape the minds of our youth through pornography and vile conduct seeking to reproduce their social dysfunctions.
Even those who consider themselves religious and live a lifestyle of compromise against God's will should not be surprised when they discover that they have more things in common with god-haters and pagans, because ultimately all three groups serve the very same "god of self" instead of Christ. Those who know better must do better. Let's all just get real and right before the Lord Jesus Christ. A life that is surrendered to Jesus as their Owner (Lord) is never wasted.
The Gospel of the Kingdom === >>
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
Now on a different note: President Mike Huckabee shall defeat The Socialist Hillary Clinton in 2008.
http://evolutionfacts.townhall.com
SportinLife -- I think Hitler was only married once too.
Strudelcookies - Ahhhhhhh, NOW I know where the inspiration for "it takes a village" came from!!!
That is, states spelled with the letter "A" in them...Yikes, I hope no one misconstrued that.
Lol...GMG, your comment reminded me of a funny story...I was once neighbors with someone who lived in Alabama or Arkansas, or one of those states that have a lot of a's in them. Anyway, their daughter went to school with the Clintons' girl. (Chelsea?) They said that nearly every day they had to take the poor kid home with their own girl, because Chelsea's parents always forgot to pick her up. I guess it does take a village...:D
Anyone But Hillary 2008
Which wife is Rudy Giuliani (Pat Robertson's endorsed choice for president) on again? Third, I think, but it's difficult to keep track.
Well, Hillary's been married to only one person in her life, which is more than I can say for certain people calling themselves "gospel pastors" currently on the front page of the site. (Maybe more than some of the commenters here can say, even.) She should at least get credit for that, since it hasn't always been a perfect and easy marriage.
dgnymn - you've done a commendable job of cutting to the chase. My comment on "it takes a village" was tongue in cheek, you may have been one of the few to catch it. Come to think of it, I don't think most people caught it when she was proclaiming it the next best idea to sliced bread way back when! As a christian, I certainly don't want a village raising my children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, etc. etc. But that is indeed her mindset. In her book, Uncle Sam knows best, and she thinks she's the best, most experienced person for the job (her words). Heaven help us.
ifeelfine...what does Philippians 1:6 have to do with salvation? Nothing. So you still havent answered my question....
yes....
or no.....
its as simple as that. salvation is simple.
While your openness to having Senator Clinton to your Aids Conference is an honorable thing, the issue in America or around the world is not about AIDS - it is about abortion. It was a great political move for Senator Clinton to appear and give a great speech on what we all care about AIDS but a very divisive way of swinging the evangelical vote by taking the spotlight off of what we all as Christians stand for and that is ending abortion and standing for marriage between one man and one woman. I pray the church of God will stand up for what the real battle is against and not be deceived.
So...Robert in Charlotte thinks Hillary Clinton's a "viable candidate to endorse?" Oh boy...are we in for some troubling waters, here. Does anyone not know the Scriptural admonition - "LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU?" This lady is a VERY shrewd operator, and more than "gutsy," she's very manipulative, and the fact that the softees at Saddleback Church who call themselves "evangelical" have "softened," tells me that there is something else going on. Does anyone understand who this woman is. Not only is she a supporter of women's rights and abortion (AKA: She's a baby killer and supports the murder of the unborn), but she's also a HUGE advocate of the Homosexualization of this nation, by her endorsement of the homosexual agenda and Hate Crimes. While out of one side of her mouth, she is preaching to the choir, the other side of her mouth would be to shut down these choirs if they interfered with her political agenda. And what is that??? Well, first and foremost she is a Socialist (READ: Communist), and she believes in the redistribution of wealth, the confiscation of firearms, and the total of control of every living person in the United States. Remember it was her who advocated children being raised by "The Village." Do we yet not understand her intent, here? Are you a homeschooler? Well...be wary of Chairman Hillary. And our "progressive leader" Rick Warren and all the other softees who listened to this chameleon who claimed her own "Christian" faith have been duped into believing she is one of them? NOT BY A LONG SHOT, folks!! Do your homework. I speak from the Socialist Republic of Massachusetts, the land of the Kennedys and leftist Legislature. BE NOT DECEIVED!!!
wow-soon as you bring something to light we are judging. in order to judge there is a sentence. so one is judging her. Again She said one thing and does another. And of course no one is perfect in here and none claimed to be. Do you think Hitler was bad ?(and no she is not even close to hitler). i say that cause just as you said Rob the bible says dont judge it also says out the abundance of the heart the mouth will speak. All i have to do is listen to her on certain issues and thats a good indication of the heart. No one here said she's going to hell either. im not even thinking about that but is she says one thing and you want to be a leader than do what you say.
robertincharlotte - spend some time going back over the history of things she has stated. She's a chameleon. She's also quite a good speaker. She's very much a politician, and very good at it. Sorry, can't trust her in the least. And she bilblically flunks, in spite of her high profile AIDS, malaria, and "it takes a village" philosophy.
It is my understanding of the bible that we are not to judge and that we do not know the hearts and soul of people only God does. Many of you assume that if one opposes your views or does not enforce your strict code of beleifs then you must be a sinner who has not repented and is in need of salvation. Who gave you the moral authority to judge? Is Clinton perfect? No, but then again if she were then she would not need to confess as she has that she has a relationship with God. If nothing else give Hillary Clinton the credit she deserves for trying to live out the mandates of Christ to serve our fellow man and take care of the poor and sick. She at least does more and plans to do more than what has been done in a long time. If we can get over the whos right and whos wrong syndrome, I think many Christians would find Hillary Clinton a viable candidate to endorse. Good luck Hillary and God speed!
RBB, sorry, i meant www.understandthetimes.org, and www.apprising.org.......not .com....sorry bro......
RBB wrote:
"I also have to wonder........why isn't the ACLU protesting about a political candidate campaigning in a church?"
Exactly, I had the same question. I think I have a definitive answer on it though - it is because they are too busy trying to remove the ten commandments from the public square as well as giving the Gideons a hard time for providing Bibles in Public Schools for students who are interested in it. Not to mention working side by side with the many liberals in Congress that are pushing extremely hard night and day for hate crimes legislation (very craftily, they inserted the legislation into a defense bill that they took to President Bush this last time it was vetoed). And Oops, I forgot one more - they're too busy defendihg and promoting NAMBLA and every other pro-homosexual agenda into the public square in replacement of the Bible and its principals, but nope, I guess there is no secular progressive conspiracy going on here. Nope, I don't see any double standard. I just see Clinton and Warren pandering the few evangelicals who would buy into the Purpose Driven (i mean man driven) series, as well as their overwhelmingly humanistic message which is absent of the life Changing Message of Jesus Christ - this is where the cure for sin and rebellion is found, as well as the cure for AIDS , but unfortunately, neither Mr. Warren and his "social gospel" nor the Clintons, nor the ACLU want to allow anything that steps on toes or is "offensive" to come out in the public square. I might add though that they (ACLU)will probably lobby for millions, billions and trillions on condoms, and teaching people how to put one one as the solution for the AIDS pandemic rather than getting to the root of the issue - sin.
RBB, if you want to know more about decption in the church, go to www.understandthetimes.com
paulbrown - a lot of what you are saying has been echoed many times by a lot of these people on this post. The problem is with your assertation that she is a sister in Christ. You are correct that only God knows our hearts, and it is true that we are all sinners saved by grace. But our Bible also tells us that we are known by our fruits, and anyone who so flagrantly denies the biblical stance on some of these issues should not be receiving the vote of Christians. I think all of the christians on this site agree totally that abortion is murder, and so it is difficult to stomach listening to someone laud the idea of saving so many lives through treatment of AIDS and malaria, and yet support the killing of so many truly innocent, defenseless lives. We are not electing a pastor, but it is not possible to support some of her flagrant antibiblical views.
is not faith without works dead? so if i confess i am saved and be violent in my ways, steal, kill and etc. its all good and dont correct me with love cause i confessed...come on. it s a heart condition. whats in the heart the mouth will speak. that said i am not judging her she is judging herself. there was nothing more important to jesus that salvation. all his wonderful doings were for that spiritual girt he gave us call salvation. bro i hear you helpin our fellow bro/sis but the mindset has to be there. thats what jesus was doing with the sick and helping others. His was is true. and trust me i with helping others out more than you know but that dont mean we should conflict with Gods word and purpose for us.
I call her a sister in Christ based on her own confession. I do not know her heart, but I take people at their profession, only God can judge her soul. If you care to actually learn more about Hillary Clinton's faith in Christ you can read this excellent article found at: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/07/us/politics/07clinton.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
If God only let people into heaven who were perfect, nobody would make it in. It is all about grace. I believe (based on her testimony) that Hillary is trying to help her neighbor, and while she holds some views that are opposite from mine, that does not make me not love her. The tone on this comment section has been (mostly) anything but loving and that was all I was trying to point out.
Yes, physical needs are only part of our duty as Christians, and spiritual needs are tantamount. But spiritual salvation is the duty of Christians and missionaries in those countries. As the United States we can help to alleviate some of their physical needs. Jesus Christ was concerned with BOTH physical and spiritual needs. He never set conditions for the ones he healed, he simply he healed them because he loved them. As we seek to be like Christ, so should we seek to heal our neighbor spiritually and physically. But a sick person is much more likely to hear the Gospel if you show you care about their physical needs and you aren't just hitting them over the head with a Bible. After all, Jesus said that if you say to a hungry naked person: be clothed and be filled, but didnt give them the coat off your own back then you have neglected God's command.
My plea with all of you is that you will not only love these people in Africa with these awful illnesses (yes sometimes because of choice--but have you never made bad choices? God forgives and gives second chances!!), but also that you will love Hillary Clinton, a woman I count as a saved-by-grace sister in Christ.
I never said clinton was running to be a pastor. But She said she's a christain. and yet she stands for things that conflicts with Gods word. I do not hate her at all, just stating the facts. Also God is into saving lives not just physically but also spiritual(more so). And as i leader of our country i think they should be in relationship with God and standing for his word. Also i am for helping those with the issues you listed but the only True answer is Jesus. All the issues first were birthed spiritually.
Continued:
While I as well as many of the Born again Christians on this site would agree that we need to be loving, compassionate, and humanitarian in our Christian Witness, where is the message of the Cross of Christ being preached amidst all these secularist who have been invited to speak at Mr. Warren's church. Where is the message of repentance to the many who have contracted AIDS due to promiscuity, homosexuality, intravenous drug use, and prostitution? Where is the abstinence based teaching in our public schools, which she so staunchly opposes? Where is the Bible being taught in context in all of this; nowhere? What do we gain if we have 1 billion people with AIDS comforted in their earthly existence, but they don't know the life changing Message of Repentance and Grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ?
No, what i as well as many others see here is Mr. Warren just pandering to the secular progressives stating we can work together in the fight to end a disease that was begun because of people violating God's fundamental Word. The Gospel brings salvation and new life; a new way of thinking, and behaving because the Holy Spirit moves in us and motivates us to good works. The Word teaches us to abstain from to adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, and every other sexual sin.
Now unfortunately, there are children, and many innocent people who have contracted the disease because of others who were not so adherent to the Word of God. How can a church try to annihilate AIDS without preaching Christ Crucified and Resurrected? It is in Christ that we find the true healing for the sin and corruption in this world; yet, no, Mr. Warren along with the many ecumenical/one world people have come together with a "form of Christianity" but denying the power thereof.
With all due respect to you paulbrown; how can you call this pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage amendment, pro-socialism, anti-Christian, a sister in Christ?
paulbrown wrote:
"I am amazed at the amount of hatred that is present in any Christian discussion of Hillary Clinton. Certainly she has policies that I disagree with, but she is a fellow human being, a sister in Christ, and someone who is trying to help her fellow humankind (particularly here, with AIDS). What has she done that has made all of you hate her so?"
What biblical grounds do you have to defend this woman who stands for everything anti biblical, and just cause she comes up with a humanitarian cause, then we should automatically think she's a sister in Christ? NO, she is not a born again Christian as the Bible defines one, and even if she had a Methodist upbringing, does not mean that she has made a personal confession of faith, and repented of her stances on many, if not all the ungodly things she has stood by in this country, and currently still stands by. She is a secular progressive, and Rick Warren is a liberal/progressive/post modern/emergent "Christian" who teaches bits and pieces from the Word only to push forward with his "man driven" church, but fails to teach the whole counsel of God. His message is one of "seeker sensitivity", a message that tickles the ears of the hearers.
The Clinton's had 8 years to do something for AIDS (and malaria). I find it telling that the Bush administration has given more money in the fight against AIDS then they did. I don't see any reason to ignore her unbiblical attitude to almost every subject, to give her a second chance to do something about this issue. It was shown that the Christian vote was what pushed George Bush past John Kerry in the last election, at that time the Democratic National Committee made it plain that they intended to try to sound more religious to get that vote.
I also have to wonder........why isn't the ACLU protesting about a political candidate campaigning in a church?
Hillary Clinton is not running to be your pastor. You do not have to agree with all her views. She has reasons for supporting abortion (i.e., to help prevent women dying from seeking unsafe abortions) that you may disagree with, but whether or not she is elected, this position on AIDS and malaria is admirable and something that we can stand together as Christians on. As evangelicals, our emphasis should be on grace. None of us are perfect. Not Hillary, you, or me. The message of saving peoples lives is a message from God, NOT from Satan.
End AIDS, malaria, AND abortion.
Its wierd how as us christians refuse to compromise with worldly views that we are somehow being judgemental or full of hatred. No; we just refuse to compromise. If your a Christain i think you should stand for the things in which our Lord have stated. Does Clinton?
I'm always saddened and discouraged when I see Christians so easily swayed. The article above openly states that Clinton supports both abortion and gay rights. But, because she can quote the Bible, some 'evangelicals' now support her. Satan can quote the Bible too, perhaps we should ignore the whole corrupting the world issue and vote him into office.
"Clinton shared about her upbringing in the Methodist Church and vowed to spend $50 billion on treatment, prevention and care for global HIV/AIDS by 2013 if she is elected, according to Reuters."
This statement here tells me all I need to know, this is purely political. The politicians answer for everything, promise everyone you'll THROW MONEY AT IT!! You want to impress me as a "Christian" Hillary? Come get on your knees and let's all repent before God and spend some "hours" in prayer.
"She also promised to “set a goal of ending all deaths from malaria in Africa” – where 1 million die annually from a preventable and treatable disease – by the end of a second term, according to the San Francisco Chronicle." As a "Christian" Hillary, why don't we try to stop the 800,000 baby murders that occur every year right here in your own country. That's one you COULD accomplish before the end of your first term! I'm not quite clear on this, does she promise to try to end malaria in Africa by then or does she promise to "set a goal" of ending it by the end of her second term? You never know with a politician.
I am amazed at the amount of hatred that is present in any Christian discussion of Hillary Clinton. Certainly she has policies that I disagree with, but she is a fellow human being, a sister in Christ, and someone who is trying to help her fellow humankind (particularly here, with AIDS). What has she done that has made all of you hate her so?
Chica and Wilderness, you ask what faith she hails from? She is a lifelong member of the United Methodist Church, my own denomination, and has always been committed to translating the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ into love of neighbor by reaching out to the "least of these." She has been a faithful attender of church and is well articulate in her faith, which she has said has been her source of strength through the trials in her own marriage and being constantly scrutinized by people like you.
Again, you may not agree with her on many things. But helping to find a cure to AIDS and malaria to men, women and children who are dying in Africa? If all we can do is criticize her for that what kind of Christians are we? It is an inconsistent stance for you to say you are pro-life and not work toward saving the lives of millions of fellow human beings. They will know we are Christians by our love. With all the grace and love that has been given to us despite our failures in Jesus Christ, can we not look at others through the eyes of love as well? Even toward Hillary Clinton? I pray that you will be able to. God bless.
An interesting "quiz":
History lesson: If you don't know the answer make your best guess.
Answer all the questions before looking at the answers. Who said it?
1) 'We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common
good.'
A. Karl Marx
B. Adolph Hitler
C. Joseph Stalin
D. None of the above
2) 'It's time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the
few, by the few, and for the few...and to replace it with shared
responsibility for shared prosperity.'
A. Lenin
B. Mussolini
C. Idi Amin
D. None of the Above
3) '(We)...can't just let business as usual go on, and that means
something has to be taken away from some people.'
A. Nikita Khrushev
B. Jose f Goebbels
C. Boris Yeltsin
D. None of the above
4) 'We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to
give up a little bit of their own...in order to create this common
ground.'
A. Mao Tse Dung
B. Hugo Chavez
C. Kim Jong Il
D. None of the above
5) 'I certainly think the free-market has failed.'
A. Karl Marx
B. Lenin
C. Molotov
D. None of the above
6) 'I think it's time to send a clear message to what has become the
most profitable sector in (the) entire economy that they are being
watched.'
A. Pinochet
B. Milosevic
C. Saddam Hussein
D. None of the above
Answers:
(1) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/29/2004
(2) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
5/29/2007
(3) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/4/2007
(4) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/4/2007
(5) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
6/4/2007
(6) D. None of the above. Statement was made by Hillary Clinton
9/2/2005
Wilderness took the words out of my mouth: What faith would that be? With her "If I am elected..." comments, she showed what's up her political sleeve. The devil quoted from the Bible too. So what does that prove? Does she quote it when she's speaking on homosexual and abortion issues? Wildmon is right, Christian's have no business giving this woman or anyone like her a forum. Or if you're going to have high-profile people for this worthy issue, AIDS, keep it out of the church building. Rent a coliseum.
"BY their fruit you shall know them" How sad is the American Church to embrace someone like Ms. Clinton. In all honesty, I don't know how Christian people can believe anything that comes out of the mouth of someone who's real interest is power. I don't really care what party they belong to I don't trust any of them.
"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
A so-called "gutsy move" may also be seen as evidence of a political attempt to be all things to all people. If one is desperately hungry for political power, then nothing will stand in the way of that. If Hillary can tolerate Bill's sexual addictions/affairs and still remain in a loveness marriage for the sake of political expediency then a mere talk before a church audience is a piece of cake.
Anything...absolutely anything to get politcal votes! The real issue is how gullible is the Evangelical church? The fact that Hillary was elected in NY as senator only reflects the impotence of the NY Evangelical Church to apply a Christian worldview on public policy matters.
Not so gutsy, Bill Clinton accepted an interview with Bill Hybels after the Lawinski scandel. Why wouldn't she take advantage of the oportunity to flirt with the evangelical vote.
I think that Hillary probably has genuine spiritual desires toward God. It is a shame that she tries to compartmentalize her liberal political ideology into a seperate category that incorporates abortion on demand and special rights for homosexuals. I think that she has changed a lot over the years. It is hard to know how much was for political gain, but in any case she has a long way to go before she has the thinking evangelical vote. Even then, after all she has left behind her, it would still take the grace of God to overlook her past.
“We’re very religious in this country, and these are the people who helped elect [President] Bush,” Berryhill said as she motioned around the Saddleback worship hall. “So for her to come here is a gutsy move.”
Would that be a gutsy move or a political move?
“It shows me she has her own faith,” Kennedy said, according to the San Francisco Chronicle, “and that she has an interest in what’s going on in the churches.”
And what faith would that be?
I will say this as tactfully, and as lovingly as I can to all who side with Rick Warren in this ecumenical drive to unite the worlds religeons. Be warned, for this is what the Bible says: God is gracious and merciful, and will forgive those who turn to Him thru Jesus Christ with a repentant heart, and choose to fllow Him. However, He is the Righteous God, and He will judge those who deliberately turned their backs on Him and His Son - Jesus Christ because of their obstinate rebellion and continual rejection of His Son. Read the Bible in context, and then comment on it. We cannot, and should not have felowship with those who claim to be Christians yet don't obey His Word, and HIs Salvation Message. The post modern liberal Emergent church, and it's seeker sensitive counterparts want people to believe that if we all save the environment, and save the whales, the events of the Book of Revelation will not happen, and we can actually prevent it from happening. This similar social gospel which claims that we should make the world a better place, and usher in peace prior to Jesus' second coming, as well as unite with all people of faiths has been adopted by Rick Warren, and has caused whole splits in the Southern Baptist Convention, because he has gone down the Purpose Driven P.E.A.C.E Plan agenda, which by the way is a false doctrine my friends. These movements which align themselves with Bono from U2 and the whole COEXIST crowd have more in common with humanism, one world religeon, and the new age than what the Bible says will transpire. The problem today is that we have so many "Bible teachers" who are more motivational speakers than true shepherd's of the flock of God. No wonder the Body of Christ is split. The Bible talks of a great falling away in the end times. Men will naturally gravitate towards what their "itching ears" want to hear. What more itching do you need than what you hear on TBN, and the like: "find success", "you are the controller of your own destiny" "God will prosper you if you just have faith [and send me your money]". They take Scripture out of context to suit their own desires, and fleece the flock of God for their own matierial gain. OPEN YOUR EYES and STUDY the WORD IN CONTEXT; for Christ will return soon.
I am convinced Jesus will return soon for His Bride, and we are living in the end times brother, and make no mistake about it, the "emergent conversation", the "emergent church", the COEXIST Movement, and BOno from U2 along with the Rick Warrens of the world with their social gospel are creating a "bridge" between Christianity and Eaastern as well as Catholic Mysticism wich is really new age.
Read up more on the social liberalism of the emergent church, and the many seductive false doctrines such as contemplative prayer (which is really eastern mysticism), the bringing back of icons to "feel" God move in people's midsts, you can eve read up on Brian Mclaren's (The man who is credited to being the founder of this liberal church movement) view, as well as many of their leaders views on hell and homosexuality, and you will see they are totally extra biblical. you can find more info on this at www.understandthetimes.org, and www.apprising.org.
The emergent church preaches an extra biblical gospel that is more in line with the new age than it is with Sound Doctrine based Biblical Christianity. Many of them - to mention one - Tony Campolo recently told a young reader how to have a born again experience thru contemplative prayer! Imagine that, the Bible says there is only one way to God and that is Jesus Christ, and here is a so called evangelical preacher (not really evangelical even though he calls himself this) and he is teaching an eastern mystical practice taught in the Roman Catholic Church and the Jessuit Order. Now imagine that, he is adoptig practices from a church that teaches the deification of Mary as being co-redemptrix with Christ. This is heresy my brother, and we need to exhort others in love, and pray for their eyes to be quickly opened to this deception in the church; that they may see this for what it is, and that the Holy Spirit in mercy and grace may convict their hearts to repent and come back.