It used to be that retailers would call the famous holiday plant for what it was – a “Christmas tree.”
Today's Christian News Online - The Christian Post
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
CP HOME
> Society > General
Christians Protest Removal of 'Christmas' in Holiday Advertising
By
Katherine T. Phan
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, Dec. 11 2007 07:01 AM EST
[-] Text [+]
Prev1Next
Most Commented Articles
Dobson Commends Palin's Support of Pregnant Daughter
Gay 'Marriage' Foes Mobilize for Ban in California
McCain's VP Choice Reassures Evangelicals
Palin: Pray U.S. Plan in Iraq is God's Plan
Has the McCain-Palin Ticket Energized Enough Conservative Evangelicals?
Judge Tosses Suit against Gay 'Marriage' Recognition in NY
Palin Has Not Pushed Creation in Schools as Governor
Latest:
Hanna Rakes Carolinas with Rain, Some floods
Rescuers Can't Get Aid to Starving Haitian City
Chinese Christians Have Paradoxical View of China, Says U.S. Ministry Head
Thailand Christian Leaders Mobilize Believers to Pray, Speak Out Amid Crisis
Churches Challenged to Read Bible Cover-to-Cover
Spain Moves to Amend Strict Abortion Law
Two Christians Kidnapped, Then Killed in Iraq
Do Americans Really Know Who Evangelicals Are?
Palin: Pray U.S. Plan in Iraq is God's Plan
Anglican Head Calls Christians to Express Horror at Orissa Violence
Chicago Students Skip School in Church Buses for Protest
Palin Fires Up Conservatives
Judge Tosses Suit against Gay 'Marriage' Recognition in NY
Palin Has Not Pushed Creation in Schools as Governor
Hanna Rakes Carolinas with Rain, Some floods
Rescuers Can't Get Aid to Starving Haitian City
Chinese Christians Have Paradoxical View of China, Says U.S. Ministry Head
Thailand Christian Leaders Mobilize Believers to Pray, Speak Out Amid Crisis
Churches Challenged to Read Bible Cover-to-Cover
Spain Moves to Amend Strict Abortion Law
Two Christians Kidnapped, Then Killed in Iraq
Dobson Commends Palin's Support of Pregnant Daughter (86 comments)
Gay 'Marriage' Foes Mobilize for Ban in California (63 comments)
McCain's VP Choice Reassures Evangelicals (53 comments)
Palin: Pray U.S. Plan in Iraq is God's Plan (45 comments)
Has the McCain-Palin Ticket Energized Enough Conservative Evangelicals? (43 comments)
Judge Tosses Suit against Gay 'Marriage' Recognition in NY (27 comments)
Palin Has Not Pushed Creation in Schools as Governor (27 comments)
Featured Advertiser Links
Comments
Merry Christmas to you too. ;-)
To Jester
Sorry I dont respond promptly... Ive begun to keep less tabs on this site.
"No...Christmas is a Christian holiday. "Winter solstice" is Mithra's holiday. Get your facts straight. The Christians placed their holiday to coincide with the pagan holiday to try and get pagans to more readily accept their beliefs. But it doesn't matter when we decided to celebrate it, people like Token would be there to ruin it."
Im not really bothered about it anymore, being angry for long periods of times is unhealthy, and I suppose thats self-evident, if i was still angry id check constantly to respond to you xD. ANYWAYS happy holidays.
Should Christians who feel strongly about boycotting stores that censor "Christmas" also feel strongly about boycotting products made in countries that persecute Christians?
if you could refresh my memory. because I dont recall lumping you with people who ruined Christmas. How did it do it? What did I say? I'm being honest that I don't recall saying something like that, but if i did I'd like to know what it was I said.
Thats something better i can respond to. Actually, if you knew me or knew anyone who knew me, you would realize that I have no problem with authority, and authority has no problem with me. :P I am what most parents would call a saint for a son. I am only 18, so I only just recently became an adult. I have no problem what so ever with authority, and that has nothing to do what so ever with why I am atheist. I mean I have to consider the consequence of being an atheist which is I would go to hell, but really Im an easy going fellow, if Im going to hell then thats that Im going to hell. I am not saying you judge me cause of my sins, im saying you judge me because you lumped me in with people who ruin christmas. I dont do that. So if you are going to play that card youre going to have to realize that that cards not gunna cut it. If I was a problem child and I had a problem with authority, I would admit to you right now that I fit that category, but I am telling you now, you have got the completely wrong person :P.
Regardless of the cultural origins of modern customs, the point is (to me) that it's ridiculous for stores to get this PC. I seriously doubt they've had some big influx of offended people complaining. As a pagan, I'm MORE offended by PC than a private, non-tax-funded store using the word "Christmas" in products or greetings.
So, Merry Christmas everyone, and enjoy the season!
And one more thing..... people always say "I don't worship my christmas tree!"
If that is true, then don't put one up this year. I know you all don't bow down or pray to your tree.....but could you give it up?
Just skip it.
You can't, can you? Just can't IMAGINE christmas without it, can you?
Enough said.
Oh, and before you say "how can it be a christmas tree in the Old Testament?" What I mean is, This same pagan custom is what eventually became a christmas tree. Trees have been worshipped for centuries- that's where the custom came from. I know, you're gonna say....
I don't worship my christmas tree! Of course not. But I ask this: WHEN can you show me that God has ever said it's okay to take a heathen custom, pagan item, or anything used in idol worship....and "christianize it"?
SHOW ME one instance of God taking anything used in idol worship and sanctioning it's use for Him.
Take the example of when the Ark of the Covenant ended up in Dagon's temple. God would not allow that idol to stand in His presence. They kept setting it back up, and He kept knocking it down until He cut off it's head and hands.
Okay, I'm going to try putting scripture in my comments and hope that it doesn't disappear again.
Jeremiah 10:1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
THIS SAYS NOTHING ABOUT A CRAFTSMAN SHAPING IT WITH A CHISEL. This is the King James Version that I used- I don't know what you used. But it is talking about the workman cutting it down with an axe. It says nothing about shaping it or making it into anything else. If this scripture was simply talking about a piece of wood, it could have said that the heathen take a piece of wood and carve it into something and adorn it with silver and gold, etc. But it specifically starts with a TREE IN THE FOREST (which of course is where all wood comes from). Still, the fact that it talk about the tree....and doesn't say anything about the tree becoming something else......and says they DECK IT (what is it? It's still a tree or it would have said what it became) with silver and gold. "DECK the halls with bows of holly....falalala" Sound familiar? I don't think the use of the word DECK is coincidental. God knew exactly what words would be used in the future....
It's a christmas tree. Simple.
The Bible says that His saints will judge the world with Him.
And telling somebody that they are sinning is not judging. It's telling them the truth. If I'm riding with a man who is driving 60MPH in a 30MPH and I tell him that he's speeding...am I judging? No. I'm telling him the truth. But when you say something like that to someone who has an problem with authority, they will tell you that you are judging them.
I remember years ago when our city wanted to use photo radar to catch speeders. There was a huge outcry against it. I didnt have a problem with it, because I don't speed. And all of my Christian, law-abiding friends didn't have a problem with it. I talked to two unsave gentlemen at my work, who were adamant against it. I've see the way they drive. I know why they didn't like it. Because they drove like idiots, and didn't want to get caught. It seems that the people who piss and moan the most, are the ones who don't want to be told their wrong or want to get caught. And, knowing that you are an athiest, understand why you hate true Christians. Because you don't want to be told that there is someone to be accountable to.
And I dont argue with complacent Christians because they dont try to shove their beliefs upon us, and I dont really care to show a Christian with rationale that hes being irrational.
You said I ruined your Christmas as if I did something evil. I didnt rename the Christmas tree and that is why I was angry. You were insinuating that I go about trying to make Christians feel horrible about celebrating Christmas, when I have no ill will towards Christmas or most Christians. As for detesting fundamentalists yes. I do detest people who 'stand for truth' as you so put it. There are people who accept that the Bible has fallacies. They can either say that it is supposed to be symbollic or that it is just a flaw of humans, or what ever reasoning they may have. But people who say it is truth rub me the wrong way. I dont care if people disagree with me, its when they disagree for reasons that are absurd. The only evidence backing up the assertation that the world is 6000 years old is the Bible. The only time we ever have evidence of miracles are those that are claimed in religious scripture. God as protrayed by Christians is fallible on several accounts. Fundamentalists are simply extremists that try to shove their views down peoples throats, and threaten with hell, or pass judgement when their doctrine says only God can pass judgement on people. I predict that Fundamentalists will be the reason Christianity will fall in our nation, as long as fundamentalists exist Christianity will continue to fall.
Token,
What are you talking about? How did i ruin your Christmas? And why did you say that you have no intention of reading about the history of Christmas when it was you who said:
"Christmas is a pagan holiday. It was the birth of Mithras. Did you know the holy circles atop of angels and such is also an aspect for the religion of Mithras? To be honest, this is rather amusing, this whole ordeal, but I think it rather silly that Christians get into an outrage over something so simple as a name. I think its a bit overkill on the side of sears to try to secularize it a bit but I dont see the harm in doing it. But if you are goin to act like this is your holiday, then I have to disagree. Its Mithras holiday, enough said."
Sounds to me like you've read up enough on Christmas. You sound like a kid who got their hand slapped, and now you're pissed. And as far as fundamental Christians...you mean you get along with Christians who don't stand for truth? You get along with Christians who agree with you? That don't rock your boat, or challenge you? The quiet majority? A good Christian is a silent Christian. Just the way Satan likes it. But God didn't call Christians to sit quietly and let life happen to them. Paul challenged entire cultures wherever he went. You would have despised him. There are plenty of complacent Christians out there for you, so why come here where the fundamentalist are?
I have no intention of reading what was said about the history of christmas but I would like to say that you are one rude person jester. Never in my life has anyone ever told me i ruined christmas for them and meant it, and I certainly do not appreciate hearing it now. I have no qualms with Christmas or Christians, in fact I respect most Christians. The only Christians I have ever have a problem with and ever will have a problem with is fundamentalists. Fundy's are extremists that need to tone down their vendetta before they ruin a perfectly good group of people. I used to have no interest in the debate of Christianity until i butted heads with a fundamentalist and realized how narrow minded and vendictive they can be. I had never disliked a Christian till then and now Im reminded again why. Even if there were plenty of evidence and logic backing the Christian cause I would never join if it meant I had to entertain fundamentalists as bretheren. Forgive me for my rudeness but that was a mean and horrid thing to say.
InSpiritandTruth...
your paraphrasing is just a fancy word for putting your spin on a scripture. When you did that, you have taken the meaning completely out of it. Let me QUOTE it for you and I will highlight the phrase that you so conveniently omitted...
Jeremiah 10:1-4
"Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel. This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, AND A CRAFTSMAN SHAPES IT WITH HIS CHISEL. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter."
That has nothing to do with Christmas trees. Its about makine wooden idols in the images of false gods.
But I do agree that Christmas trees are a pagan creation and have nothing to do with Christs birth.
The entire argument about "real Christians" keeping "biblical" feasts such as Feast of Tabernacles originates from Armstrongism and the "Worldwide Church of God" (et al) - which teaches such heretical errors as the "divine Family of God" as opposed to the Trinity as well as teaching that mortal men will have a second opportunity for salvation after the resurrection of their bodies!! Armstrongism is famously legalistic and at worst heretical. If we toss out the suspect COG teachings regarding Christians observing bibilical feasts, there is very little documentation or basis for any discussion of the matter at all.
From the ECC:
Some Christmas Customs. When we give or receive Christmas gifts, and hang green wreaths in our homes and churches, how many of us know that we are probably observing pagan customs ? We do not wish to assert that they are not good customs; but they undoubtedly prevailed long before Christian times.
The Romans gave presents on New Year s Day, and our bestowing of gifts at Christmas is a survival of that practice, as well as a commemoration of the offerings of the Magi at Bethlehem. The Yule-log, a feature of Christmas in old England, goes back to the days of the pirate Norsemen. Holly and mistletoe and wreaths of evergreen have been handed down to us by the Druids. And even our good old friend Santa Claus, that mysterious benefactor of our childhood days, existed in one form or another long before Christianity had attributed his virtues to St. Nicholas; for the god Woden, in Norse mythology, descended upon the earth yearly between December 25 and January 6 to bless mankind.
But, pagan though they be, they are beautiful customs. They help to inspire us with the spirit of " good will to men," even as the sublime services of our Church remind us of the " peace on earth " which the Babe of Bethlehem came to bestow. May that spirit fill the heart of each of us on every Christmas Day ! [The Externals of the Catholic Church - Christmas Day Chapter XXIII - 1917]
According to the Externals of the Catholic Church, pagan customs help inspire people with the spirit of “good will to men.” Should pagan customs inspire us to serve God? What do you think?
From the ECC:
Not in the Early Church. How old is Christmas Day? When we see with what unanimity that great festival is celebrated at the present time, it is surprising to learn that it was probably not observed at all in the first three centuries, and came gradually into existence in the fourth. One would naturally think that the anniversary of so great an event as the birth of the Son of God would have been a day of religious joy from the earliest years of
the Church; but it is clear that this was not the case.
There is no mention of it in any of the oldest lists of Church festivals. Much more attention was given in the first centuries to the Epiphany, the beginning of the manifestations of our Lord to the world; and the commemoration of His birth, if observed at all, was combined in those times with that feast. [The Externals of the Catholic Church - Christmas Day Chapter XXIII]
What do you think about the statement: “Not in the Early Church?” Do you think some organizations have gone beyond holy scripture?
Why are they instead following the Catholic church? There is a Catholic link on the homepage, maybe they can help answer that one for you.
Yes, TruthandJustice1, you would have to remove ALOT of holidays. But why is it that God's holidays (His Feasts) are not observed by most Christians? The word "Christian" means "follower of Christ". Christ observed the Feasts of God: Tabernacles, Pentecost, and most famously, Passover- in which He became the perfect Passover Lamb for all of us.
So if we are followers of Christ, then WHY aren't we following Him ( I speak of Christianity as a whole, since I myself and my church do not observe man-made holidays, but we do observe the Feasts)? Why aren't the followers of Christ going by His example? Why are they instead following the Catholic church?
Again, I re-iterate: Christians who would never for one moment ever CONSIDER praying to Mary or the saints are still following MANY MANY Catholic traditions.
Come out of Babylon, people!
Just think how many holidays you would have to remove just because they were Catholic in origin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_controversies
In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas; its celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681. At the same time, Christian residents of Virginia and New York observed the holiday freely. Christmas fell out of favor in the United States after the American Revolution, when it was considered an English custom.
A Catholic Feast. Christmas has, indeed, come to be a festival day for all; and the universal observance of this Catholic feast is the more remarkable when we remember how this " Papist " custom was frowned upon only a few years ago in this Christian land of ours.
Perhaps some of us can recall when there was little respect for Christmas, either in a religious way or otherwise, among non-Catholics in this country. It was only when the narrow-minded sects had ceased to be in a majority, and when European immigration had infused new vigor and new ideals into the life of America, that the anniversary of the Saviour s birth began to be a religious and social festival. [The Externals of the Catholic Church - Christmas Day Chapter XXIII - 1917]
I’m not Catholic, just adding information to the thread for discussion.
The Name of Christmas. Why is this day called Christmas? This word, which we of English-speaking race use as its name, shows the Catholic origin of the festival. Christmas is " Christ s Mass " the Mass offered in honor of the birth of Christ. Probably few of our non-Catholic friends advert to the fact that the day which they celebrate so universally is a feast of the Catholic Church, taking its very name from the supreme act of Catholic worship. [The Externals of the Catholic Church (ECC)- Christmas Day Chapter XXIII]
I'm not Catholic, just adding information to the thread for discussion.
"Mithras was not born because it is a made up god from the 1st to the 4th century. The followers copied everything that pertained to Jesus, including His 12 Apostles."
Actually, it's the other way around. Mithraism was already firmly in place before Christianity; much of his story was merged into the Christian one.
Regardless, in modern times, educated people are well aware of the distinctions between the Christian Christmas and other winter holy days. They have become separate holy days, and there's nothing wrong at all IMO with privately-owned businesses saying "Merry Christmas." I'm not offended by this at all.
God created three Feasts to be celebrated: Tabernacles, Passover, and Pentecost. Jesus Christ Himself celebrated these Feasts. Why? Because Jesus was a good Jew. In fact, He was the best and most faithful Jew that ever lived. Jesus did not come to destroy the law....after all, the law, as created by God, was perfect. Whatever God does IS PERFECT. Jesus came to FULFILL the law. Even in Revelation, the Bible says that everyone WILL celebrate Tabernacles....and yet, most Christians choose to celebrate their own man-made holidays like Christmas and ignore God's chosen Feasts. If Jesus is our example, and He Himself celebrated the Feasts, they why would Christianity ignore what God has ordained and set forth, in favor of a holiday created by the Catholic Church?
It's sad, sad, sad. The Bible says "Come out of her, my people, lest you partake in her punishment". Come out of who? Come out of Babylon! Who is Babylon? Babylon is the Roman Catholic Church. The very word "babylon" means "confusion". The Catholic Church certainly has done a GREAT job of confusing up holy scripture! So what does "come out of her" mean? It means, leave her vain traditions behind!
So many Christians who NEVER even THINK of praying to Mary or the saints still keep all these Catholic traditions, like Christmas and Easter. STOP! Keep Passover instead of Easter, and keep Tabernacles instead of Christmas!
No, Christmas is NOT a Christian holiday. It's a Roman Catholic Church holiday.
Antiochus Ephipanes went into the Temple and desecrated it with slaughtered swine on December 25th....why? Because he worshipped ZEUS, and Dec 25th is Zeus' birthday. In AD 336, the Roman Catholic church declared Dec 25th, also known as the winter solstice, to be the day on which christians were to celebrate Christ's birth. Why did the Roman church do this? Because they wanted pagans to be brought into the church, but the pagans wouldn't give up their pagan celebrations. The Christmas tree can be easily traced to pagan Rome and Egypt where the tree was commonly used in worship of the sun god. Yes, Christmas trees ARE mentioned in the Bible: look in Jeremiah 10. I'll paraphrase here, because everytime I actually type out a scripture it disappears from my comments:
It says don't be dismayed like the heathens are, and don't learn their traditions, because they take a tree out of the forest and bring it in and nail it down and adorn it with silver and gold.
Now, if that isn't a Christmas tree, then I don't know what is! And GOD says, DON'T DO IT. But every year, millions of Christians do.
Who cares?
Are christmas trees mentioned in the bible?
Let’s not get carried away with the Mithras nonsense. Mithras was not born because it is a made up god from the 1st to the 4th century. The followers copied everything that pertained to Jesus, including His 12 Apostles.
The exact day of the birth of Jesus is not known. Therefore, celebrate CHRISTMAS as it has always pertained to the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is not the day or the celebration that evokes anger, hatred, and the distain of unbelievers, it is the name of Christ!
Christ is who Jesus is to humanity; the messiah, the anointed one and His anointing. The demonic world cannot stand the name of Jesus or any reference to Jesus, such as Christ.
I do agree with not shopping at ANY store that refuses to acknowledge Christmas. Let them sell to the secular only. They curse reference to Jesus Christ and honor all those who hate Him. They are knowingly doing everything in their power to stop the spread of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are driven by one of the most demonic organizations on the planet today, the a.c.l.u.
Please continue to celebrate and take a stand for the rights of Christian, U.S. citizens to express themselves in spite of those who serve Satan. If we continue celebrate CHRISTMAS, then even some of the opposition will be saved.
The End Times is in full force; Are you ready, are you sure?
Pastor Leo Bogee
World Christian Leadership & Training Ministries
( www.wclandtm.com )
No...Christmas is a Christian holiday. "Winter solstice" is Mithra's holiday. Get your facts straight. The Christians placed their holiday to coincide with the pagan holiday to try and get pagans to more readily accept their beliefs. But it doesn't matter when we decided to celebrate it, people like Token would be there to ruin it.
Christmas is a pagan holiday. It was the birth of Mithras. Did you know the holy circles atop of angels and such is also an aspect for the religion of Mithras? To be honest, this is rather amusing, this whole ordeal, but I think it rather silly that Christians get into an outrage over something so simple as a name. I think its a bit overkill on the side of sears to try to secularize it a bit but I dont see the harm in doing it. But if you are goin to act like this is your holiday, then I have to disagree. Its Mithras holiday, enough said.
Jesus may have not been born in december, and the bible does not say to observe his birth, but i am pleased and joyed to celebrate one of the two most significant events in the history of humanity, the birth of Christ, the second is at easter which is the reason he came , he came to die. If he came to die for us, whats wrong with celebrating that he loved us so much he stepped out of eternity and glory and into this world to set an example for us to live and to give his life for us. Thank you Jesus
*sniffs the air* Hmm... Smells like ACLU to me.
Mr. Titoni, the former CEO of KMart lead Kmart to bankruptcy due to his arrogant nature
by disregarding the Christian majority. Once Sears had such an ego " solid as Sears" and they
lost the ego in years. Now the joint venture of Sears-Kmart is heading toward the same
fate by playing with the Christian majority. "JESUS IS THE REASON OF THIS SEASON " when
some stores are too cautious to be neutral or play the game of appeasing the minute minority,
they will be heading toward another shock. Even non-Christian countries show
Christimas signs without any fear of retaliations from the majority, but in America some stores
are playing a tricky game.
I agree, expecting a non-Christian society to live like us Christians is a little ridiculous. Now, if they wanted to sell us Christmas trees or "holiday" trees from our sanctuaries then we would have a problem. (Jesus and the money changers)
The fact is, Christmas is nothing more than a re-organized pagan holiday, so it should be no surprise that it struggles to "keep" it's "Christian roots". Those "Christian roots" are only superficially deep!
Jesus was NOT born in December. He was born during the Feast of Tabernacles, which lands in the Jewish month of Tishri, that corresponds to our Mid-Sept to mid-Oct.
Furthermore, the Bible does not instruct us to remember His birth....it instructs us to remember His death and resurrection....which again, most Christians get wrong by celebrating it as Easter (the reformed pagan festival of Ostre, a fertility goddess).
When are people ever going to wake up? Christmas is not holy. God asks us to come out of Babylon....
Reuters story:
Hands off Christmas, say religious leaders
Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims joined Britain's equality watchdog Monday in urging Britons to enjoy Christmas without worrying about offending non-Christians. "It's time to stop being daft about Christmas. It's fine to celebrate and it's fine for Christ to be star of the show," said Trevor Phillips, chairman of the Equality and Human Rights Commission. "Let's stop being silly about a Christian Christmas," he said, referring to a tendency to play down the traditional celebrations of the birth of Christ for fear of offending minorities in multicultural Britain.
http://www.reuters.com/article/oddlyEnoughNews/idUSN1041014220071210
The whole argument is absolutely ridiculous. These stores are anticipating issues which may or may not even come to pass. Seeing "Christmas tree" in advertising doesn't offend me in the slightest. Honestly, that's the main consumer who's going to buy them!
Joe is correct; We do not need other to reconize Jesus for us. We know Him, and we can display Christ ourselves; Beside we are suppose to be Christ-like, our Christian Spirit is suppose to be a light to others. Do not put out the flames of the Spirit. You don't have to buy from them if it offends you. You know who you serve; let us walk like Him.
Is this suprising that secular businesses refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ? Their denial does not change who Jesus is! nor does it change the true meaning of Christmas! The world is full of sin and Jesus came to save us all! Jesus is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow! Jesus is not defined by popular opinion! JESUS is LORD!!