Staunch atheist Richard Dawkins recently denied wanting to stop Christian traditions as he labeled himself a 'cultural Christian.'
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Atheist Dawkins Calls Himself a 'Cultural Christian'
By
Lawrence Jones
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, Dec. 11 2007 07:07 PM EST
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Dawkins is not so smart. The fool has said in his heart there is no good - so that's what he must be!! As if he knows everything about everything!!!
token wrote, "He wants people to stop believing in God, fine no ones contesting this, what hes saying is that he doesnt want to end Christmas or stop charity and what ever else Christian culture has imposed upon us."
How utterly ridiculous. Dawkins wants people to stop believing in God, yes. But then he suddenly decides he doesn't want to give up Christmas? He just wants to have his cake and eat it, too. I find it both incredibly interesting and sad that you think Christmas and charity were "imposed" on the world by Christians. There is nothing bad about either one. If you want to be a Scrooge, fine, be one. Just don't pretend there's something wrong with charity.
Here's a table which explains "cultural Christianity" and contrasts it with the real thing.
Dawkins' statements are ludicrous in that he doesn't even go this far.
http://www.crossroad.to/charts/cultural-Christianity.html
Methinks Dawkins is fast becoming a split personality. First he blames all of the world's ills on those on believe in God, now he says he is a "cultural Christian"??? Give me a break. I wonder if he thinks he's really fooling anybody.
ifeelfine72, Sorry, but you evidently don’t know much about William Wilberforce, he was not a progressive Christian by any stretch of the imagination. He only went into politics rather than ministry, after being persuaded that he could be of greater influence in politics. He wrote in his diary, "God Almighty has set before me two great objects, the suppression of the Slave Trade and the Reformation of Manners" (having been concerned with the rise of immorality and vice he helped the passage of Proclamation for the Discouragement of Vice in 1787). He was not a liberal or a progressive Christian. He was an Evangelical Christian who allowed his faith to inform his politic. He also worked with William Carey to introduce Christ to India and was also a founding member of the Church Missionary Society.
Ok I personally had no interest in this conversation, but I am now curious as to why you guys sort of bash the concept of a cultural christian as if it were some ploy. I find it not to be a ploy, any atheist who indulges himself or herself in celebrating Christmas is in fact celebrating a Christian holiday, whats more the phrases we uses Oh my God, Dear God, the countless utterances including God are merely examples of how the culture of christianity has an influence upon us. He wants people to stop believing in God, fine no ones contesting this, what hes saying is that he doesnt want to end Christmas or stop charity and what ever else Christian culture has imposed upon us. Im not saying hes for keeping the phrases =P, but I wouldnt be surprised if he occasionally uttered them, which only further proves that he is culturaly Christian. Its a simple fact we are influenced by our peers and relatives, and their traditions rub off on us. To deny this is madness. Of course he is not a Christian, and if a hell and heaven exists he is most certainly going to hell, as I know I am too, but its as ifeel puts it, its going through the motions, its tradition. We tell people who sneeze 'bless you' what for? Im not thumping religion here, im just saying whats the purpose of it? My folklore on the phrase was that they said it in order to stop the soul from 'escaping.' We all know thats foolish now, but we still say it anyways. I cant pick out all the little things that characterize Christian tradition, but I can honestly say that I definetly have some of the culture in me whether I want it or not ^^.
seedplanter - Thanks for the response. I have to say that I stand by my statements though (I don't appreciate my statements being twisted though). You're right, it was progressive Christians that helped end slavery and helped give women the vote. It is also Christians that have been trying to end abortion. However, the religious right has demonstrated that they are hungry for power. That is why it is so important for other people of faith to balance that talk out and unfortunately there aren't a lot of Christian folks who are.
ifeelfine72, “I'm not worried about my faith influencing my politics (because it does) but I am worried about politics in general influencing our faith.”
Very well said!
However you need to fine tune your politics.
1. Iraq is not Bush’s war. Democrats and Republicans voted for the invasion. This has nothing to do with religion or the religious right.
2. Tax cuts for the rich? I do not consider myself rich. We have three children. My wife and I earn somewhere around 50K. If it wasn’t for Bush’s tax cuts we would not have been able to afford our vacation last year.
3. Bush’s religious beliefs caused people to drown in New Orleans? Come on now. Next you’ll be signing up for Louis Farrakhan’s mailing list.
4. The religious right hungry for political power? To be fair many people are power obsessed, including those who profess faith, but… To make such a comment, albeit well meaning (giving you the benefit of a doubt), is completely uninformed. Maybe you are new to this sight. Does the recent film “Amazing Grace” ring a bell? It is the story of William Wilberforce, the champion of freedom in England for the abolition of slavery. It was Christians who allowed their faith to inform their politic that lead to the abolition of slavery. It is Christians who allow their faith to inform their politic that is driving the abolition of abortion in America today. Incidentally because people are so obsessed with their own problems they have no idea that Christians are fighting against slavery around the world even today.
The American framers recognized their dependence upon God, pity today they are afraid to even recognize that there is a God.
Karenmspence: You make a few good points (some Christians depicting themselves as martyrs, the greeting card conspiracy) but to suggest that Richard Dawkins doesn't have an anti-Christian agenda is laughable. Just look at the title of his book(s), listen to any interview he's ever given. The guy has described religion as being the worst plague in the history of the world.
miss_poppy: Christmas is a time for friends and family but lets not forget why we celebrate it. BTW, I checked out your website. Some of the items were cute, some struck me as slightly blasphemous. Just curious, are you a Christian?
seedplanter: There are lots of Christians (myself included) who would prefer to keep church and state completely separated. The politics of one GW Bush illustrates my point nicely. Not all Christians feel the same way. I hope that when I tell people I'm a Christian they don't think of GWB and his policies (pre-emptive war, tax cuts for the rich while the poor folks in New Orleans drown, etc). Plus, we get things like the religious right that seem more interested in political power than what Christ called people to do. I'm not worried about my faith influencing my politics (because it does) but I am worried about politics in general influencing our faith.
It's sad, ifeelfine72, that people think of friends and family at Christmas? My goodness, what is this world coming to?
Miss Poppy
http://www.misspoppy.com
"What a Trend We Have in Jesus!" (TM)
WE ARE NOW WITNESSING THE EXTINCTION OF ATHEISM.
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com
karenmspence,
It is not a matter of being misunderstood or mistreated. The attention that has been given to the literal war against Christmas is not due to a phobia that Christmas will be taken away. The concern is over the political correctness that is once again attempting to eradicate America's Christian heritage, which is what has made this country great.
Furthermore, Dawkins has made it plain in his debates and interviews that he desires a secular state. To say that he does not intend to exterminate faith in general is naive.
Also, Christmas may be the same time period of the Winter Solstice, but it is not the same celebration.
Are there gullible Christians that believe erroneous things including crazy conspiracies? Of course, but no more than the fringe secularist who is shaking in fear from the thought of a Christian president who actually allows his faith to inform his politic. America’s founding fathers knew the necessity of Christian faith in a free democracy. That is why they allowed their faith to define their government and laws.
Amen, annie. Well said!
To karenmspence: I am one hundred percent a follower of Jesus Christ, and I am not ashamed of the fact that I believe in God; I know Him personally and I thank God every day for HIS intervention in my life. I praise Him that man is NOT in control of things, as we can see how well man has done in this world so far.
God is not a man, HE is Spirit and HE is The Creator and nothing Mr. Dawkins or any other Atheist will ever change my mind, as it's not my mind that has changed, it is my heart. The LORD GOD took my own dead heart and gave me HIS heart of love and compassion and gave me a new life. At the hands of humans I experienced horrors and pain, and God took all of that and worked it for my good and HIS glory!
I stand in fear of no man's religion; what is man that I should fear him, when I walk with The Almighty Creator!! Man denies God as man wants to be in control and not recognize God for who HE is. God requires repentence and obedience and man doesn't want to do this; it's humbling.
Well, you are all free to believe what you wish, it is not threat to me dear one; Jesus Christ, personally knowing Him, there is nothing greater, nothing more satisfying, and HE fills my life like nothing and noone I have ever known. So, hmm, I can go back to this cold, and dying world, or I can continue on, in The Kingdom of Jesus Christ, where I know that I am loved, wanted, and accepted just as I am, and God loves me so much, HE is helping me to be all HE created me to be!
I think, I'll stay with Jesus Christ and my prayer is that others will look to Jesus Christ and want to follow Him too!
Hey TW,
"As a Christian, one of the fundamentalist, Bible-believing unintellectuals that are held in such disdain by those of superior knowledge and learning..."
You're not to 'unintellectual' to spell "persecution complex".
Really, sort yourself out.
karenmspence:
As a Christian, one of the fundamentalist, Bible-believing unintellectuals that are held in such disdain by those of superior knowledge and learning, I do agree with some of what you said - it is pathetic that some of those whom I call brothers and sisters in the faith freak out because someone wrote some book that attacks our beliefs or because some story says "Holiday" instead of "Christmas".
Our Lord is mightier than any concept, idea, belief, or way any man can invent or ponder up on his own. Try as we can, the march toward the end times continue. I urge you to repent of your sins and recieve Christ as your savior and your eyes will be open to what is the Truth.
by the way, I salute the strength of your faith since, even though it is somewhat misplaced since for evolution to be true, more miracles than Christ ever did while He walked in human form is require.
Once again the holiday season ushers in an avalanche of articles depicting the abuses of the poor misunderstood Christians by the atheists. It's becoming a tradition.
First, I never cease to be surprised by the fear expressed by Christian writers that this book or that book (in this case, "The God Delusion" by the genius Richard Dawkins) is an attempt to "convert people to atheism". On the contrary, Dawkins merely lays out his argument (this is called free speech) in order to give Christians and non-Christians information to which they should apply their critical thinking skills. Are Christians so lacking in these skills that they will be easily swayed? This article seems to suggest that. If you truly feel confident that your convictions are accurate you wouldn't feel so threatened by another's opinion.
Secondly, Christmas is NOT a Christian hoilday, its origins are pagan. How many times must it be said?
Third, Dawkins has never defined himself as a "staunch atheist", instead he categorizes himself as a secular Humanist. However, I understand the need of the author to inflame his religious readers and nothing does it better than the "A" word.
Lastly, I laughed when I read about the conspiracy by the greeting card companies to sideline Christmas by not publishing enough cards depicting Christ. Hallmark's agenda is to sell cards and they are going to print whichever cards sell best.
We are at a turning point in time when science and reason are beginning to explain our incredible world. This is used to be the church's job. Thus is the progress of life. Accept it or hang onto your outdated beliefs (free choice) but try to quit playing the victim; it just makes Christians seem desperate.
I think we all know what Richard Dawkins is saying. I'm sure everyone has seen / met / knows "cultural Christians" - they make up 90% of Christianity unfortunately. They go through the motions, they don't really have a relationship with God or Jesus Christ. They may sing Christmas carols but don't get any real meaning from them. They think of Christmas as a time of family and friendship - not of giving thanks for the birth of our Savior. When I was Catholic we used to call them Etc. Catholics (they only showed up on Easter Thanksgiving and Christmas).
It's a sad commentary but unfortunately true.
Article mentions, "Staunch atheist Richard Dawkins recently denied wanting to stop Christian traditions as he labeled himself a “cultural Christian.”
Wow! I didn’t know that Richard Dawkins was also a comedian.
http://didymuspov.blogspot.com/
Dawkins: "I like singing Christmas carols along with everybody else."
If he is singing the traditional carols (and 'Silent Night' was recently voted the most popular Christmas carol in Great Britain), does he realize that he is singing either about Jesus, or singing praises to God about the birth of Christ?
Since all I got was a "thumbs up" to my question, I'm going to be impulsive and assume I'm right. On that presumption, let's assert that 'Cultural Christian' is a rhetorical misnomer, at best. It's one more example of the misconception that Christianity is all about ritual and tradition, rather than having a fellowship with Christ.
And I checked out Bonobo11's AtheistPrayer blog ... "Spiritual atheist"??? The entire page is one long meaningless contradiction. Why don't we hear more statements like, "He's such a kind bully" or "This is a FUN tax audit!" or "What an excellent Rob Schneider film."
holito8, >> I thought atheist had a higher degree of intellegence. << There are many "intelligent" atheists; Dawkins and Hitchens are the savants of spiritual skepticism. :^) I think that most athiest are ... well ... just not very intuitive.
Maybe the official Athiest Proclamation should be, "I'm logical, because I don't make ANY sense!"
This makes as much sense as saying I'm a God fearing Bible thumping athiest. Christians are followers of Christ and all of his teachings. There is no such thing as cultural christianity. I could sum this guy up with Roman 1:21 ...their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Hi holito8, I agree that Prof Dawkins is not foolish to know Christianity is different. If he lives in any of the Islamic country, this Athiest would have been death by now. Christianity gives him the rights not just democracy, afterall democracy won't succeed unless Christians support it. I see it this way.
Andy Armitage, you are just as unstable as he is. Why would you follow traditions based on religion when you are trying to kill Christ? I guess if people were still blood-letting you join in. I though atheist had a higher degree of intellegence. Since religion is a myth based in the past, why would you continue in as you says nonsense. Therefore you must be unstable and have not true intergity. Dawkins is lying in this very conversation.
1) Dawkins, who has expressed hopes of converting religious believers to atheism through his international bestseller The God Delusion, made the comments while fielding open questions on religion and debating with conservative MP Mark Pritchard.
2) "Christ always has been and always will be at the very heart of Christmas. Taking Christ out of Christmas is like serving the Christmas turkey without the stuffing,” Pritchard said.
Dawkins denied wanting to stop Christian traditions.
“I like singing carols along with everybody else. I'm not one of those who wants to purge our society of our Christian history,” he said.
"If there's any threat these sorts of things, I think you will find it comes from rival religions and not from atheists," said Dawkins.
That is a obvious lie. You want to convert people to being atheist, by exposing the God delusion. But it ok to follow christian traditions. Then he says he is not trying to purge our of our Christiian history. Only a debased mind would make sense of this. You have three contrary statements and says they are all the same.
Christ is the expressed image of God. You can't call Christ true, without the Father. You can't be for religious traditions and against it too. You can't say you want to convert people to nonreligion without being against religion.
Mark Pritchard recently delivered a speech and led a debate entitled 'Christianophobia' in the UK Parliament.
Some lines: "I have never met a single Muslim, Jew, Sikh or Buddhist, or person of any other faith, who has told me that they object to Christians celebrating Christmas ...
"Yesterday I received an e-mail from a Jewish gentleman in Beirut, who told me of nativity plays performed in schools there. If it is good enough for Lebanon, it is good enough for London ...
"One has to question why the Madonna and Child stamp is available only on request while many other stamps are available to people just by walking into the post office ... etc."
The transcript can be found on Pritchard's website:
http://www.markpritchard.com/search/article.php?id=927
Without taking any sides, looking up the definition, or reading past Joe12234's post:
>> Mr Dawkins: Please define "cultural Christian". <<
Someone help me out and tell me if I get it ... A 'Cultural Christian' is someone who places a value on some Christian traditions, practices, artifacts, etc, NOT on the basis of any spiritual significance, but rather on their historical (or influential) significance ...?
I've just flagged my own comment as "inappropriate". I didn't know what "flag" meant in this context. Oh, dear, here it is again, then:
"[M]any Christians feel they are not getting a fair hearing when it comes to Christianity in the public square." Oh, come on, Mr Pritchard: there are 26 bishops in the House of Lords, who do not have to be elected; we have a head of state who is also "Defender of the Faith" (the Christian faith, C of E); we have goodness knows how many hundreds of "faith" schools on this small island of ours, paid for by the taxpayer, and you say Christians feel they're not getting a fair hearing. What a load of cobblers. As for Dawkins, yes, it's perfectly reasonable to call yourself a cultural Christian. Those who think it's some sort of non sequitur who are commenting below obviously haven't examined the phrase. I'm an atheist, but am also a cultural Christian, because our history is informed by Christianity, when more people were superstitious. Easy.
Atheists can not only be culturally Christian; they can also be spiritual and prayerful.
A Atheist can be spiritual and prayerfu? Hahahahaha, now that's a great joke. First you deny that spirits exist, and then you pray for a higher power to aid you. Atheist are double minded. The Bible says the double minded are unstable in all his ways, tossed by the wind.
Cultural Christian, this truly show Dawkins ignorance of the gospel. First, Christian are not cultural. Christian is Christ-like. Christ is not an object to behold but a truth, life, and belief. There are many interlopers, but God knows those who are His. So Dawkins continue to sing your songs and celebrate Christian traditions.
Mr Dawkins: Please define "cultural Christian".
-------------------------
Luke 6:46
[Jesus said]: 46"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"
-------------------
You either believe Jesus is Lord and Savior or you don't. You are either for God or against him. There is no middle ground.
Mr. Dawkins, Jesus loves you and is ready to receive you in mercy and grace!
well dinesh d souza in his debate countered much of dawkins claims and views and i see that dawkins supporters are decreasing
"Cultural Christian"...is that the politically correct word for wolf in sheeps clothiing? He's nothing more than a farce. Anyone who's an athiest, makes no secret that they want to turn Christians to athiesm, and then calls himself a "cultural Christian" cannot be taken seriously. Maybe he's like a lion...watching the herd...using this guise to weed out the weak Christians so he can pick them off. Maybe not enough Christians read his book, or he missed his quota. Either way, his claim is, at best, laughable.
Atheists can not only be culturally Christian; they can also be spiritual and prayerful:
http://www.atheistprayer.blogspot.com/
one day richard dawkins knee will bow. Jesus said sin will be in this world but woe to the man through whom it comes.