Praise God! Blessed is that nation whose God is the Lord.

"Actually, it makes perfect sense. Athiests believe there is no God, and consequently, no sin as well. If this is the case, and it is, this verse would then be applicable:

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1st John 1:8

Therefore, if the truth is not in them, and we see it is not, I ask you again why I should trust what they say?"

So, atheism is wrong based off of what Christianity says? That's a very circular argument.

And yes, atheists can believe in sin. I don't need to believe in God to believe in a system of morality.

Also, yes, most of the founding fathers had Christian beliefs. That doesn't mean they wanted religion and politics to be combined. The Declaration of Independence may contain talk of Christianity, and their private life may have contained practice of Christianity, but when it came down to writing the highest law of the land for our government(the constitution) they never once inserted their own beliefs into it. All the evidence of their faith you have presented actually helps my case, because the lack of God in the constitution definitely doesn't mean they didn't believe in God. It meant they believed in seperation of church and state.

To WiccanTexan:

"You're confusing spiritual truth with cold, hard, historical ones. The two are not the same. Your red herring is a guppy."

I don't think so. Perhaps you may have missed this in history class:

As a matter of historical evidence, the First Amendment was clearly understood and explained by the man who wrote it and the man who first applied it as law. Fisher Ames wrote the First Amendment. He also wrote that the Bible should always remain the principle text book in America's classrooms. John Jay, original Chief-Justice U.S. Supreme Court, said it is the duty of all wise, free, and virtuous governments to help and encourage virtue and religion.

Also, ninety seven percent of the founding fathers were practicing Christians and exercised their faith in public office, at work, at home, and had it taught to their children in their schools. 187 of the first 200 colleges in America were Christian, Bible teaching institutions. Entrance to Harvard required strong knowledge of the Bible. The money was printed, "One Nation Under God." Noah Webster wrote the dictionary with Bible verses explained so children could understand the words of God and know the truth of Jesus Christ. Webster even wrote a translation of the Bible for the American speaking people.

The Declaration of Independence appeals to God no less than three times. Four to those who can see His Name in the phrase "protection of divine providence". Five to those who can admit the phrase "created equal" means created by God, not evolved from chaos.

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"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention."

- George Washington

"The United States of America were no longer Colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians."

- John Qunicy Adams

Pardon my interrupting but it seems that the real argument is the support by Congress of some religions over and above others. The context of the story is that congress seems to overwhelmingly endorse Islam and Indian religions through a unanimous vote yet some congressmen reject that same support for Christians. Is it not only right to speak well of the Christian religion as we have of other great religions? Let our Congress not be hypocritical when it comes to recognizing great religions.

JC: You're confusing spiritual truth with cold, hard, historical ones. The two are not the same. Your red herring is a guppy.

To WiccanTexan (and others)

"That makes no common sense at all. What does it matter their motivation, if the material is relevant and verifiable?"

---------

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Athiests believe there is no God, and consequently, no sin as well. If this is the case, and it is, this verse would then be applicable:

"If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." 1st John 1:8

Therefore, if the truth is not in them, and we see it is not, I ask you again why I should trust what they say?

big german, TheTrueBZ, and pvlman - Right on! All of you. Its always been my opinion that we as Christians should be the biggest advocates for the separation of church and state.

"I'm not saying they didn't do their homework, I'm saying that it can't be trusted. It's not only their opinions that are in question, it's their motivation."

So, even if the article is factual, it cannot be trusted because it's on an atheist website? That makes no common sense at all. What does it matter their motivation, if the material is relevant and verifiable?

"you may be right...but the Declarations of Independence does speak of God. "

It states the word Creator, and Nature's God. It says nothing about either of these being in a Christian context. Though the Founding Fathers were primarily Christian, they were also Deists, which does not define God for anyone else.

theTrueBZ,
you may be right...but the Declarations of Independence does speak of God.

As long as we have people who try to impose "christianity" we will continue to have spirirually dishonest drivel that begets this mean-nothing bill.Christianity can only move forward when it is accepted by willing and broken hearts.Those who try and conflagrate christianity and nationalism are clearly trying to use religion as a means to unconstitutional power.They build religious sounding mythology and use lies about the founding of this country and the men who were here from the start.My God doesn't need dishonest power grabbers to advance His cause.As for the claim that The United States was founded as a christian nation I would like to quote Predident George Washington"The United states is in no sense founded upon the christian doctrine."This country was founded by men seeking religious tolerance,and it's so sad that now it is being put into jeopardy by men and women trying to impose religious intolorance.And for those smart alecks who try and say freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion,you people don't know the true meaning of freedom or religion.

Also, if one examines the constitution, one will see that our nation was not founded on Christianity. There is no mention of Christianity, Jesus, or God within our constitution. The only times the word religion or religious appears is to ban religious tests for holding office and to prevent Congress from supporting a religion or putting restraints on one. There is no higher law of the land than the constitution, and it is clearly a secular document. The constitution is not a large document, so this is easy to check for yourself.

I can understand that Christianity is important to all of you, and you want it to influence every part of your lives, so I can see why you would want it in your government too. However, if you put it in your government, Christianity also becomes part of the lives of people who don't follow it, and that is disrespectful to them.

@ JC. What, because the other side is trying to prove a point, it is evidence they're slanted in that direction and have a bias, and therefore can't be trusted? If everyone took that attitude(And too many people do) then nobody would ever listen to someone with an opposing point of view. There would be no discussion, just endless quarelling. Yeah, you should take what the opposition says with a grain of salt, but you should do the same with your side. A suspician of bias means you double check their facts, not that you ignore them. And the belief that Satan is a deceiver seems like quite a copout when you use it as a blank check to ignore someone else's point of view.

By the time I was out of high school I figured out my country (USA) never was most likely will never be a Christian nation. For the simple fact that honoring Christ's instructions as how to live our lives, doesn't support maximum profit. That is not to say the USA & the world would be a better place if the USA conducted is business by following the all commandments, including those that tell us how to treat our neighbor. Congress' action was nothing more than politics as usual.

It's interesting that the rest of the world and it's false religions flocked over to America to enjoy the freedoms given to a Christian founded country and now that they are here they think they have something to do with it's prosperity and success, I say dream on. As long as America claims and can show they are a Christian nation they will prosper, when they turn their back on Christianity it is just a matter of time until they fall on their face.

To WiccanTexan:

I'm not saying they didn't do their homework, I'm saying that it can't be trusted. It's not only their opinions that are in question, it's their motivation. As an athiestic website, their true function would be to promote as much as possible the non-existence of God. Therefore, by their own admission, this literature they produce is slanted to deny the existence of God. It can't be trusted. They've taken God's word and perverted it into something it is not, twisting just enough here and there to make it sound good. Did God really say...?

If there is one thing that can be attributed to the dark one, is that he is really good at convincing people he doesn't exist. And, if he can get people to believe that he doesn't exist, maybe they'll believe that God doesn't exist too. The dark one is very good at lying, as he is called by Jesus the Father of Lies.

Also, there is a huge difference between knowing of God and knowing God personally. Many know of Him, but few know Him personally.

The people at the website you sent me to obviously do not know Him, so why should I take their word for it over the Author and Finisher of it all, whom I know personally?

"How could one possibly hope to get a solid viewpoint about the origins of America and Christianity from a bunch of people who deny God even exists?"

As well as a solid viewpoint could be expected from a non-pagan about the origins of Wicca. ;) Everyone has a bias, but that doesn't mean that they haven't done their homework. Check out the book references for yourself and see if they're on the level. They're honest about what perspective they are coming from.

To WiccanTexan:

Interesting article. But perhaps you might have missed this -

From the website you sent me to:

"This article attempts to provide a general introduction to atheism. Whilst I have tried to be as neutral as possible regarding contentious issues, you should always remember that this document represents only one viewpoint. I would encourage you to read widely and draw your own conclusions; some relevant books are listed in a companion document:"

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How could one possibly hope to get a solid viewpoint about the origins of America and Christianity from a bunch of people who deny God even exists?

I'm a little disappointed in you wiccan, even you are not an athiest.

A.S.Mathew, I agree with everything you said except the need for a resolution by a national Gov't body. Political correctness is what the stores are operating on, and I disagree with them. "Merry Christmas," etc is not offensive to me. However, our country's branch of Gov't and its members passing a resolution of this nature is downright scary to me.

According to the Bible, the devil will disguise himself as an Angel of Light. I see some rays peaking out of the House right now.

JC: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/myth.html