Over a third of a century has passed since the controversial Roe v. Wade case yet many participating in pro-life events Tuesday will say: the fight is far from over.
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Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
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Rally Cry for Life Continues 35 Years After Roe v. Wade
By
Katherine T. Phan
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, Jan. 22 2008 09:53 AM EST
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Comments
Citizen -
It's obvious I've been wasting my time. You don't want to consider anyone else's thoughts. At least I made an attempt to speak to your viewpoints. Peace. Out.
Dagny: Your "various point" was a very involved response to my comment that your definition of "terrorist" was flawed, because it would apply more broadly than you want. That in turn, was a response to a comment that the insurance rates of abortion providers would go down if they stopped offering abortions, and insisted that every client carry their pregnancy to term. In other words, what argument are you currently making? I'm talking about abortion, about how the rights and interests of the pregnant woman need to be balanced with the interest the state has in potential persons. You all seem to suggest that these potential persons should be treated as the same as an actual person, but you don't offer anything in support of that position but religious platitudes. I'm asking you to get beyond sectarianism, and reason in a way that persons who disagree with you on religious matters could accept.
Citizen -
Is that the best you've got? Your one sentence response to my lengthy comment (Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:19 am ) leads me to believe that my argument has much more substance that anything you have offered. Can't you respond, in a reasoned manner, to the various point that I put forth?
Don't wantt to give you too much to think about but would like to add this:
Science is nothing more nor less that a hypothesis which is tested and either validated or invalidated. If it is validated, further testing is required... with enough data validating the hypothesis, it becomes "theory," perhaps even "law," but never "truth." Don't believe me? How about when the scientific world believed that the world was flat? Scientific theory or law holds only up to that point where information previously unknown becomes known and changes the equation. This is called progression.
The idea that we are designed with perfection and purpose is supported by everything we observe in "life," down to the incredibly complex "simple cell." These observations are evidence of some higher purpose, a creator.
If we are the result of random and "spontaneous" ("billions of years" of spontaneity, mind you), then it's pointless for you and I to even argue about this. Life is a meaningless progression of change for the sake of change and human life is no more significant than the "life" of the chair I'm sitting on.
If on the other hand there is a perfect Creator who has designed all of life with this perfection and purpose, perhaps we had better discover want he wants us to know.
Dagny: Well, you have no scientific evidence for your creationist position, so it seems inadvisable to make national policy on that basis.
ChicagoMel: The interests of the potential life, and the rights of the pregnant woman do need to be balanced. That's why, as the pregancy advances, the interests of potential increase until, at viability, they can trump the rights of the pregnant woman, so long as her life and health is preserved. Until that time, the fetus cannot survive outside the woman's body, and so is properly regarded as part of the woman's body, and her rights control.
I think education and outreach can help a lot...it seems to me that there are far too many unwanted pregnanacies because people are too open and free with intercourse. (Not sure if the S word is allowed here) Teens in particular and people in general aren't aware of the consequences of their actions, and often feel pressured to "do it".
I also think a change in culture is needed; it's time for society to wake up and stop seeing unborn children as somehow less than human, as less valuable than born humans. People need to accept the reality that they're human, and that it's wrong to kill them, unless the mother's life is at risk.
Still it always sickens me when politicians can go on and on about the mother's rights or women's rights....I would love to see people ask them "what about the child's rights? Don't they matter at all? Doesn't the child the mother is carrying have any value or meaning? Why is it less important to you than the woman? Why don't you think it also deserves protection?"
correction:
"meat and vegetables"
Good morning Citizen and thanks for your "analysis" (using the term loosely here)
So now we are comparing the lives of newly created human beings to.... plants and vegetables? Okay...
Would I be correct in assuming that you are an adherent of the theory that completely random acts of mass, evolving over billions of years is the only explanation for why we are here? Of course, if we ARE all random bits of evolutionary accident, then it makes sense to equate human life with plantlife, with diseased dogs, cats, cows... etc. I, on the other hand, believe that God created man in His image, "above all creation, just below the angels," and that He further created each "after its kind."
You take it even further by assuming that one who equates the taking of human life with murder (morally speaking, of course since the law has made this form of murder "legal"), that such a person would consider our national defense to be unimportant (ie: equate soldiers with terrorists) - wow. Rather than call my arguments absurd, don't you think you should explain your own a bit better??
My initial response was to your emotianally-charged "radical Christian terrorist" comment. You might have noticed that in the NEXT paragraph I stated very clearly that anyone utilizing violence to end violence was wrong and that a Christian to do so would make him/her a living, breathing contradiction.
Let's be really clear though: defensive use of force is not violence, (as in defending the nation, defending your property, etc.), the use of offensive force is an act of violence.
In summary then, I eat both animal and vegetable, believing that God created them for our nourishment, and in the case of animal: with strict rules for the human taking of life... (this "humane" taking of animal life would include vetranarians and slaughterhouses using methods which would not be considered "cruel").
I believe that one of the limited functions of government, as laid out in the Constitution, is to provide for the national defense, that is to act in defense only against another nation and not "pre-emptively" which is just another term for offensively, which is wrong.
Have to run for awhile, I'll check back later. Hope you have a really great day!
Would anyone like to submit to a special experiment? Such as, being placed inside the replica of a womb and then being aborted without anesthesia. Of course, all actions are stopped just short of ripping off body parts…
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59805
Strange, that there are those who wish family and friends “happy birthday” but then hold hands with murder to keep others from hearing those same words.
Dagny: You must not eat meat or vegetables, because those animals and plants were killed by terrorists, according to you. How about war? Are you a pacifist, or do you support the taking of life by our troops? Are American soldiers terrorists? How about vets and animal shelters? They regularly kill pets suffering from fatal diseases, and unwanted strays as well. Are they run by terrorists?
In summary, your position is absurd. I suggest you rethink it.
Citizen,
Seems to me that anyone who ends a God-given life, and does so on a regular basis with nary a thought but for the billing...that is the "terrorist."
As to anyone who commits violence to end violence, not only is that a contrdiction it is WRONG, and such a person is NOT acting in accordance with God's law either.
Instead of threatening people, we should be involved in our own communities, we should be aware of those around us and help if someone needs help - we should be offering love and real solutions, not condemnation and judgement. As Christians we are to LOVE ONE ANOTHER, and Jesus raised the bar even higher saying we are to love our enemies.
As to judgement, God alone is Judge and according to scripture we have ALL been found GUILTY - that is why Jesus entered the world - to pay for our sins, to clear our debt in God's eyes, but in order to have this free gift we have to believe that he truly was and is the Son of God, that he died in our place, that God truly raised him from the dead, that he lives and will return as he has promised. Let us not hate and judge one another, or if we must, then let us cease calling ourselves followiers of Christ!
Peace.
pavilion: Abortions cost roughly $400. A pregnancy carried to term costs thousands. It would be far more profitable for every abortion provider if their patients carried their pregnancies to term. their insurance costs would go down too, because they wouldn't have to worry about radical christian terrorists blowing up their clinics.
The abortion industry is a billion dollar industry that is drunkenly rich off the poor women in crisses that walk through their doors. When the contracsepetion fails they profit. Beware all they care about is their wealth. Women deserve a better that to the regular case: one dead and one wounded.
Defend the right to life, Support Dr. Ron Paul now!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/
Aren't you sick of politicians using this as a political football while babies die?! I'm tired of hearing how "conservative" and "prolife" they are UNTIL they take the office! Check Rep. Paul's 10-term record - he is an honest man.
Also check YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZpuIXEzWk
Ron Paul speaks at the National Right to Life Convention
also WWW.PRAYFORPAUL.COM cut & paste & share these links, God Bless you all.
maranatha7593
True! It's not about the woman's bodya alone - she is carrying ANOTHER body, one designed with great purpose and perfection by the Creator of all life.
Question to Christians: why are so many young woman left to face this alone? Are you praying daily for the ones who are suffering in this world, that the love of Jesus Christ will envelope and protect them?
torus, it is a lie that abortion rights are about "women have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies".
When women kill their nascent children, they are "choosing" to do that to a SEPARATE PERSON, not "their own body". The child has his/her own gender. If it were just a part of its mother's "own body", it would always be a girl!
The child has his/her own fingerprints, his/her own DNA, his/her own blood type, his/her own personality.
The truth needs to be told. The truth will make us free.
Desi06 -
For 35 years, millions of innocents have been being killed.
For 35 years our elected officials have claimed to be prolife and promised to "work on it"
Roe v Wade has stood for 35 years because no one has challenged the Constitutionality of the decision - they talk the talk....
For 35 years, Dr. Ron Paul has been delivering babies (more than 4,000)
As a confressman he has put forth legislation that DIRECTLY challenges the constitutionality of ROE v WADE, returning control to the States as the Founders designed. The very instant that occurs, the voices for the unborn can be heard once more!
Will there remain any States that allow abortion? Possibly - if we aren't effective enough, it's possible, however returning the abortion issue to the State level means it will no longer be legal in all of them! How many lives could have been saved if Ron Paul's legislation had been backed long ago??
For what he believes I hope that you and others will go to:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/life-and-liberty/
Aren't you sick of politicians using this as a political football while babies die?! I'm tired of hearing how "conservative" and "prolife" they are UNTIL they take the office! Check Rep. Paul's 10-term record - he is an honest man.
Also check YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZpuIXEzWk
Ron Paul speaks at the National Right to Life Convention
I am glad to see the pro-life movement so strong. I know people who were once adamantly pro-choice, and are now pro-life. This usually seems to transpire after they had kids of their own, or they had an abortion and discovered/realized how terrible it is.
torus - Thank you for proving that when liberals say that they aren't "pro-abortion" they are just "pro-choice" they are lying. I can't think of a more blood thirsty thing to say, than to say thank goodness that another 4000 innocent babies will be murdered today. You've made the point better than I ever could have.
Strange, that those who have been born, chillingly desire the right to kill the unborn.
I thought Roe v Wade was based on a lie?
Thank goodness that abortion is legal and that women have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies! Thank goodness the democrats will win and keep it legal!
Monty: Out of curiosity, have you ever read Roe v. Wade or Planned Parenthood v. Casey?
R v. Wade is Error! If we were attacked by an enemy and they killed approx. 40 million citizens by bombs, chemicals, or other such devices, we would be at war. Imagine 40 cities the size of Dallas, TX are non existent because of killing babies. The unborn have a right to life and we should extend them all the protections of law. We are supposed to be an enlightened society, yet we shamefully to kill our unborn. In some states even animals have more rights! Lets resolve the problem, lets change to law and societies opinion to pro life! Monty Ousley Weddell, TX
Sorry, but Ron Paul is not unshakably pro-life: he's against the Pro-life amendment to the Constitution. He thinks that states should decide whether or not abortion should be legal, which is better than what we have now, but it's not great either. In essence, he thinks states should have the freedom to "choose." Indeed some states would ban abortion but many would not. And he's fine with that. It's either killing a human life or it isn't and if it is then why should we allow states to choose to do it. That's awful.
Mike Huckabee, on the other hand IS PRO-LIFE!
zooch: I wasn't aware that freedom of conscience was up for popular vote.
If all of us could see the video tape of a 3D ultrasound scan of an abortion taking place in live real time not one person would vote for abortion including the doctors, if you have such videos put them on myspace, youtube etc. and let America be the judge, not the President or the courts
Congressman Ron Paul (R-Tx), Presidential candidate, is an unshakeable foe of abortion. Today, "Jane Doe" has officially endorsed him. Please, if you care about this issue, visit his site and read for yourself - don't be manipulated by anyone with a political "agenda!" There are those who will not support Rep. Paul's legislation, which would effectively end "Roe V Wade," because he is also against the war in Iraq! This is a good and decent man who has consistently fought for life for 30 years. (as a footnote on war: Paul supported the action in Afghanistan but believes the war in Iraq is UnConstitutional. He is a veteran, a former flight surgeon in Vietnam, and is a practicing OB-GYN)'
Please seek the Lord with all of your heart and do not dismiss Dr. Paul simply becase the world says you should.
Why not pray that God send us a man after his own heart? Christians are seeking answers from the world and not God. When the answer come and we don't like it we complaing. This is a case of lost direction. God is still on the mountain top and we have lost sight of him because we are looking at the ground.
I know it's a bumper sticker, but it's so true:
If men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament!
I encourage everyone who is pro-life, to get out and vote for a pro-life president in Nov.Without compromise. And to be brave and speak up for the speachless, and we will be salt and light in this current culture of death. Examine your presidential canidates closely. Dont be fooled. The Clintons, and Obama are pro-abortion.
Amen.
On this 35th anniversary of the beginning of the modern American holocaust, I pray that God will have mercy on our land and not allow us to reap what we have sown. I pray that all Americans, from small to great, from the lowliest worker to the highest-ranking leaders, will receive the revelation from God's Word that the blood of these innocents cries out to Him, and He hears their cries. I pray that we will obey His Word in Proverbs 29 by speaking out on behalf of these who cannot speak for themselves.
May we who are called by His name truly humble ourselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from our wicked ways, knowing as we do so that He has promised to hear from Heaven, forgive our sin, and heal our land. In the mighty, precious, Holy Name of Jesus - Amen.
I do not expect women of the world to make the same choices as women in Christ.
We are under grace. We are not under the law. The law was nearly impossible to follow. We have a better understanding of what God wants from us. But we are not even acting as if there is a God. Sex brings forth children; Let's be responsible. Women should choose better men to be fathers. Men should be fathers of children they bring forth. You will be had accountable by God for your disregard of your responisibility. Demons destrory and cause chaos without regard. If you are acting like a holy terror, you are not holy for God.
We have children acting as adults because parent are not being held accountable. TV and school were never meant to raise YOUR children. You are parents not the child. Children only have access to things you allow because you are neglecting them. God is watching what type of child you are raising, either godly or ungodly. God knows those by the fruits of your labor.