The seemingly always smiling, positive-thinking pastor to America’s largest congregation welcomes everyone to his church, including office holders and politicians – as long as they agree to leave politics outside the church doors.
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Osteen: Politics is Good, but Not in My Pulpit
By
Michelle A. Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Sun, Jan. 27 2008 08:27 AM EST
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*** People of faith are voting McCain - Palin ***
Some facts on Obama's voting and speaking against the teaching of Christ:
- Obama votes to kill babies born alive. These are people Jesus loves.
- Obama calls traditional marriage, which Jesus ordained, "divisive".
- Biden's church has told Biden not to take communion.
Let's vote for McCain - Palin beacuse they care for all babies and marriage - instead of voting because someone is black or speaks well.
from Fox News:
WALLACE: And what about Mitt Romney? And I’ve got to ask you the question, because it is a question whether it should be or not in this campaign, is a Mormon a true Christian?
OSTEEN: Well, in my mind they are. Mitt Romney has said that he believes in Christ as his savior, and that’s what I believe, so, you know, I’m not the one to judge the little details of it. So I believe they are. And so, you know, Mitt Romney seems like a man of character and integrity to me, and I don’t think he would — anything would stop me from voting for him if that’s what I felt like.
WALLACE: So, for instance, when people start talking about Joseph Smith, the founder of the church, and the golden tablets in upstate New York, and God assumes the shape of a man, do you not get hung up in those theological issues?
OSTEEN: I probably don’t get hung up in them because I haven’t really studied them or thought about them. And you know, I just try to let God be the judge of that. I mean, I don’t know. I certainly can’t say that I agree with everything that I’ve heard about it, but from what I’ve heard from Mitt, when he says that Christ is his savior, to me that’s a common bond.
Joel Osteen said rightly said
no politics on the pulpit. Not to give the politicians the pulpit is biblical. It is alright for the politicians to come to worship God and hear the message and repent or grow spirtually. -solo.
CFElect--
I know the article is about politics in the pulpit but the discussion was centered around what I had said about Osteen. Maybe therein lies the confusion. You may be surprised that I don't disagree at all with most of what you said in your follow-up post. In fact, I agree with much of it a whole lot. Take care and God bless.
First off, the whole article is about politics...thus, the response.
Now think about this statement you write: "If you don't <agree with me>, God bless you. " I'm not sure what you mean by that. God blesses me with His grace every moment of every day whether or not I'm correct in my politics or not :-). Thank God for grach, huh?
I applaud Osteen and Warren for not allowing politics into the pulpits of their churches. I might disagree comepletely with both men from a Christian standpoint. The marriage between Christianity and extreme right (or left) politics should have no place in the Kingdom of God. We can stand firm on our morals and principles, but to appear partisan or to come across in a way that appears as if political solutions are the best way to change our world is dangerous. The way to change our world is to change hearts and to be a seperate people (that means not gossiping, not being mean-spirited, etc. as well as some of the more "pet" sins we Christians seem to place greater emphasis on).
Anyway, God bless you too! I know He already has. Take care...
Ummm, also, there's no false witness in anything I said. It is my opinion, and my opinion alone, though I know that many others share a similar opinion about Osteen (because I've heard it, on the radio, in the pulpit, and elsewhere). Everything I said was based on scripture. Everything about my opinion was motivated by my understanding of scripture. I hold to my opinion as being both correct and true. If you don't, God bless you.
"Wrap their faith in the flag"? Where did politics come into this?
I have equal problems with Warren as I do with Osteen though not for the same reasons. But I didn't mention Warren and no one else here has brought anything political into this discussion.
The misinformation about Rick Warren and other more centrist evangelicals is fairly common among those who wrap their faith in the flag. Last I checked, bearing false witness was a sin.
Citizen--
Jesus spoke more about hell than anyone else in the Bible. He repeatedly uses the threat of hell to those he is speaking to, as a warning to change their behavior and thinking and deeds. The entire Christian message is offensive - always has been and always will be. The message of the cross is an offense, but Paul and the other apostles preached it loud and clear. They were beaten, cursed, abused, imprisoned, stoned and ultimately martyred for preaching it.
As Christians, we often fail to live up to the challenge Christ presents to us (I know I fail to do so, every day) to take up our cross daily, to live out the message, to preach the message. However, it's worse to not even recognize it or recognize the message and/or to mask it behind new age guru "feel good-ism". Just my .02 cents.
Washed--
Paul said those who teach bear a greater responsibility. That's nice, what you posted, but if you really read it the point of the whole thing is ultimately about the self.
RickWarren,
i believe they r referring to Mike Huckabee being Mr. Warrens seminary pal, altho i agree that the wording is a bit confusing.
but the amazing thing about this article...no one seems to have noticed...Mr. Osteen finally takes a stand on something and doesnt seem to be equivocating!
Here is Fridays Devotional from Pastor Joel....Yep really sounds like he is preaching to only be out for yourself. I really believe that many of you haven't even been to one of his services, much less really know what he is about. Many out there criticized the Apostles and lets not forget everyone that thought that Jesus was horrible. I am not saying that everything that he preaches is right on, but who out there is perfect? As Jesus would say, "Let him cast the first stone!"
Today's Scripture
“But now bring me a minstrel. And while the minstrel played, the hand and power of the Lord came upon Elisha” (2 Kings 3:15).
Today's Word from Joel and Victoria
The Bible says that God inhabits the praises of His people. When you worship the Lord, His presence will manifest wherever you are. It doesn’t matter if you are at home, in your car or at work, God will inhabit your praises. And where God is, there is tremendous power available! The enemy cannot stand in the presence of our Mighty God!
What do you need power for today? Do you need God’s healing power in you body? Worship Him. Do you need God’s restoration power in your relationships? Worship Him. Do you need His delivering power from a particular situation? Worship Him.
As you worship Him, you will see your perspective begin to change. The things that used to bother you will no longer bother you. Old habits and addictions will automatically break off of you. Things in your life will begin to change when you live a life of worship.
Start right now by worshiping the Lord out of your heart. All throughout the day, sing songs to Him and declare His goodness. As you do, you’ll experience the life of victory He has in store for you!
A Prayer for Today
Father in Heaven, I worship You today. You are the good and faithful God. Thank You for loving me. Thank You for accepting me. Thank You for working in my life today. I bless You today. In Jesus’ Name. Amen.
Citizen: "While Osteen has no more reason than any other christian preacher, at least he also omits the fear-mongering."
You might want to look within the four Gospels and check just how much Jesus spoke about Hell. The reason? Hell was not originally intended for human beings. He didn't wish anyone to go there.
Some may wish to state Jesus' own words on Hell and eternal damnation as "fear-mongering". However, the warnings are real and given in true concern.
Joel Osteen: Positive Thinking Guru Masquerading As Christian Clergyman
Joel Olsteen vs. the Bible
Seven Suggestions from Osteen's Recent Book:
* Keep pressing forward
* Be Positive about yourself
* Develop better relationships
* Form better habits
* Embrace the place where you are
* Develop your inner life
* Stay passionate about life
Seven Commands From the Bible:
* Die to yourself
* Take up your cross daily
* Follow Christ
* Love not the world
* Trust in the Lord
* Love one another
* Go make disciples
It sounds to me like Joel Osteen has a great appreciation for exactly what it means to say that other religions are wrong, in the context of evangelical christianity. It is much more than "you should reconsider" or "we aren't going to follow your advice" as it would be in a general context. It involves trying to scare someone with the threat that they will suffer what is commonly considered to be eternal suffering. Common consideration for the reason and dignity of others requires that persuasion should indeed be by reason, not by fear. While Osteen has no more reason than any other christian preacher, at least he also omits the fear-mongering.
SummaTheologica,
Listen to Joel Osteen dance around the gospel for yourself -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfwYU2pmWYQ
FROM RICK WARREN's Staff: The last 3 or 4 Christian Post articles that have mentoned Rick Warren have been full of errors. In thjis particular article 1) Joel Osteen never went to any seminary so Rick Warren could not possibly have been his "seminary pal" as you claim. 2) Pastor Warren is is opposed to using the pullpit for poliitics, and has NEVER has any politician speak at any Saddleback Worship Service. You are confused, and are repeating a second hand error, without checking to confirm its truth, Please, in the future, contact us for verification, before mentioning our pastor in any article , Thank you.
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
SummaTheologica--
Anyone who is afraid of, or ashamed of, the cross, has a serious issue. Joel Osteen has a serious issue. A lot of people in new age and alternative religions do "a lot of good" too, does this mean they are working for Christ or the gospel? No. In fact, they're leading people astray.
Osteen very rarely mentions Jesus. So what is it, exactly, that he is "preaching"? Christ is the center of Christianity. Without Christ, and without the cross, what message, exactly, have you got? You certainly don't have a church by any traditional understanding of the word (not that a physical "cross" is required, but Osteen finds even the physical presence of a cross scary and off-putting let alone preaching the cross). Christianity is about the theology of the cross. Osteen's theology is of the "self" of "self glory". Yes, in my opinion, he's a heretic (albeit I don't think he knows what he 's doing - he seems like a nice guy but I don't think he has a clue what damage he's doing).
Paul said he preached Christ crucified. He said it was an offense. He said it was foolishness to those that were perishing. Paul also said he wasn't *ashamed* of the *gospel*. He said false teachers would come, distorting the message he preached, confounding even the elect. Christ is repeatedly called a stumbling block. Sin, death, hell and the cross are *supposed* to be off-putting, supposed to be a wake up call, supposed to be the challenge and the stumbling block (any other Christians, feel free to jump in here if you think I'm off base).
Read 2 Timothy 3:13 and 2 Timothy 4:3.
The cross is the most beautiful moment in history. I pray we never get our eyes off the cross. This is where God took our place so that we can be with HIm for eternity. All of history points to this one moment in time. The wonderful, beautiful cross that glorified our God so. Please let it never escape your minds.
I believe Joel Osteen does a lot of good for those in American and the World who are struggling with their faith. Osteen provides a forum where faith can develop, if people want more meat, they can go somewhere else to supplement their worship. To say Osteen is a Heritic is ludicrous, he has done nothing to deserve the lable "Heritic." Some may say "well that's the problem, he is not doing anything." I say, let him alone he is doing good. And as far as him being a Heritic for no cross, why should he put a cross up if he doesn't want to? Why be reminded of only Chirst's death and not the Atonement or the ressurection? What if Christ got the guillotine? Would you walk around with one of those around your neck? More people were crucified than just the Savior, it is only a means of capital punishment not some supernatural soteriolocal artifact.
I don't think anyone here is saying they're "holier than thou" or "holier than Joel", at least not what I was saying - my point is that Joel isn't holy at all. In my opinion, he's an outright heretic, teaching heresy. This isn't claiming one is holier than another Christian or that one is without sin whereas someone else has sinned. This isn't an issue of holier or whose the bigger sinner.
Heresy is completely outside the arena. And Joel is certainly ashamed of the cross since he won't even have one in his church. Big, big problem for Joel. In my opinion, he's leading tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, astray from basic Christian orthodoxy and doctrine.
Pastors can get in real trouble if they allow campaigning in their pulpits. I know that's the case in the northeast. If you're not careful up here, they will torpedo your nonprofit status.
Why would pastors have political candidates in their pulpits, anyway? Talk about itching ears. Don't they realize they're being played for votes? Will the kingdom of God be ushered in through Washington D.C.?
Good posts today, people. Amen to all of you!
You all realize that "holier than thou" is not a compliment, right?
I just wish Joel would preach the Gospel and leave out the humanism. Unfortunately, there may be masons involved limiting what he is allowed to talk about or he is complicit in leaving out the the message of repentence and holiness. There is too much rebellion in the church and we need to see real conversion taking place within our churches. Many people have never been truly saved.
http://www.evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
I just wish Joel would preach the Gospel and leave out the humanism. Unfortunately, there may be masons involved limiting what he is allowed to talk about or he is complicit in leaving out the the message of repentence and holiness. The is too much rebellion in the church and we need to see real conversion taking place within our churches. Many people have never been truly saved.
http://www.evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; - 2Timothy 4:3.
In my opinion, Joel Osteen is a heretic and teaches full-blown heresy to his followers. What kind of man is ashamed of the cross and will not have one in his "church" for fear that it will offend? Instead he has a big "globe". The "prosperity gospel" he preaches is completely unbiblical and without any foundation in scripture. He barely mentions the name of Jesus, if at all.
Jesus didn't come to die for us to make us rich, bring us personal "fulfillment", spiritual enlightenment or any other materialistic or new age garbage. Jesus came for one reason, to die a horrible death on the cross to atone for our sins and give us the gift of eternal life through faith in him. That's it. He didn't die to give us a big house, a Mercedes, a yacht, personal fulfillment or anything else of "the world".