Same-sex couples lined up Monday in front of the Multnomah County Building to register for Oregon's new domestic partnership.
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Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
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Same-Sex Couples Register in Oregon
By
Audrey Barrick
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, Feb. 05 2008 03:24 PM EST
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“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world” (Titus 2:11, 12).
The grace of God is a teacher, teaching us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, to live soberly, righteously, and godly. If we say that we are a Christian that has the grace of God in our lives, but we deny and walk contrary to the teachings of grace, then we speak as a liar.
In addition, the grace of God will teach us that homosexuality is a sin, an abomination. If we think otherwise, then we are sitting under the tutelage of a substitute teacher, a liar and a deceiver.
j4me, I don't know how you are able to type such long posts when this site does not let me, so I'll keep it brief. In school I had an excellent teacher of the bible for a full year who pointed out parts with varying translations and parts that contradicted each other. She took her faith very seriously and knew her stuff. I defy anyone to say she's not a true Christian because she looks at the bible with a critical eye and not just blind acceptance that every single word is fact. It isn't fact if the overall message is not true to Christ's example.
Continued to Shequon:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
Eph 5:3-7 "But FORNICATION, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
1Cr 5:9-13 I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people–
not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Accept the repentant sinner; Absolutely yes!!!!!!! Accept the unrepentant as a brother? God forbid! This goes against God's Word.
Continued to Shequon:
In addition, to answer your second portion about slavery and people using the Bible to condone it: Yes, history tells us many people used the Word of God wrongly to endorse slavery, etc, but just because they misapplied it, does not mean we should not take the Word of God for what it is. The type of Slavery known in America was also a by-product of African tribes that had wars. The defeated tribes would be sold into slavery by their own blood to the Spaniards, Portuguese, French, and English Colonizers. So, just because a few misapplied it, does not make the Bible less credible. In fact, many people who were born again Christians such as George Washington had more than 300+ of their own personal slaves released upon his death for reasons that he did not think it to be right for them to be repressed. Wit him were many more. Read up on your history Shequon; not just what you hear secular revisionist doing now a days telling you a partial history without telling you the whole story. Slavery exists today in some Muslim cultures – you won’t here much of that in the secular tolerant, “don’t step on anyone’s’ toes” liberal progressive media outlets, because they want to continue to fuel the fire of America’s past.
I totally disagree with you, as will both black and white born again Christians who take the Word of God for what it is – Almighty God using human instruments to convey His Will for mankind.
Continued to Shequon:
The Word of God will ALWAYS have things that rub us the wrong way. You know why? God wants us (born again Christians) to be changing into the image of His Son Jesus Christ by the power of His Holy Spirit; this means to search the Scriptures, learn what God calls sin, and ask Him to remove us from it. If sin did not have attractiveness to it, then we would not be tempted. Please repent! Do not continue telling others to stay in the carnality of the flesh. We are commissioned to preach the truth in love, and love does not cover over what doesn't tickle our ears; rather, it exposes the truth in a loving way. This may sound very abrasive, harsh, and narrow minded to the world, but God loves us too much to let us say in our sins. This is why He calls us out of them when we become born again. Please Shequon, don't do the Body of Christ a disservice, and smear the name of Christ for the sake of tolerance and moral relativism. Shequon, you can’t tell someone that practicing homosexuality and calling his/herself born again at the same time is biblical. Jesus Christ can and will change the repentant homosexual, repentant adulterer, repentant fornicator, repentant liar, repentant person who is covetous of heart, etc. Why don’t you go visit joe dallas's website (Genesis Counseling @ www.joedallas.com). Shequon, you shame the Gospel of Christ and the Word of God; why do you continue in your reckless abandonment of God's Word by picking and choosing what you like, but not taking the Whole Counsel of God????????
Shequon wrote:
Messing with people's lives because you think you know better is not "loving" them. Continuing to use biblical passages in a harmful way is just as sinful now as it was when it was used to defend segregation and subjugation. When we use those parts of the bible that discriminate, we taint the good parts about it.
And when we say it's all "God's word" and try to make people believe that every man who had a hand in writing had God working through him (with no ulterior motives of his own God-given free will) we sound foolish. We cannot let Christian faith be held back by clinging to this all-or-nothing mentality."
Shequon, then according to your logic, the Word of God is not infallible, and without error. According to your logic, we would have to say that the Apostle Paul who was Commissioned By Jesus Christ Himself on the Road to Damascus who wrote the Epistles, the Book of Romans (the Gospel of Grace) and the letter to the Corinthians, Galatians, the Ephesian Churches, etc was writing out of an ulterior motive? If you read your Bible, and you claim to be born again; then you would feel absolute Godly remorse for what you continue to preach - a pseudo religious like tolerance of sinful living. Please stop preaching a form of gospel that denies the whole truth of God's Word. Sin is sin. I do not define it; God defines it. If you are being convicted currently, don't drown out the Holy Spirit who His Word to speak to us.
"
I hope that Shequon treats her children the way she wants the homosexuals treated. Don't tell them they're wrong. Don't point out, or warn them if they are doing something dangerous or life-threateniing.
As I said earlier, the ones that cry "ouch" are usually the ones who are guilty and don't want to be told so.
Messing with people's lives because you think you know better is not "loving" them. Continuing to use biblical passages in a harmful way is just as sinful now as it was when it was used to defend segregation and subjugation. When we use those parts of the bible that discriminate, we taint the good parts about it.
And when we say it's all "God's word" and try to make people believe that every man who had a hand in writing had God working through him (with no ulterior motives of his own God-given free will) we sound foolish. We cannot let Christian faith be held back by clinging to this all-or-nothing mentality.
Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil; put darkness for light and light for darkness;
Continued to Shequon:
1 Corinthians 1:18-31
Christ the Power and Wisdom of God
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks[b] foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Glory Only in the Lord
26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”[c]
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 1:19 Isaiah 29:14
b. 1 Corinthians 1:23 NU-Text reads Gentiles.
c. 1 Corinthians 1:31 Jeremiah 9:24
Continued to Shequon:
John 14:6 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
********************************************************************
1. Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
3. Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luke 13:23-25 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
***********************************************************************
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
Continued to Shequon:
May the Lord God open your eyes to the Truth of Christ Jesus. We live in a world where everything is "grey"; nothing is “black” and “white” anymore. No, now everything is “relative”. The same is happening in our country’s court’s of law with “case law” that did not come on the seen to show it’s secular humanistic grip on North American society until 1962; the year America saw prayer in public schools removed. Ever since then, the rise of drug use, promiscuity, paganism, outright Satanism, new age thought propagated by the Beetles, the Eagles, The Rolling Stones, etc. has been on the rise. We are slouching towards Gomorrah with situational ethics, moral relativism, and secular humanism, and if you can’t see it my friend; look at the world around you, and see what sin has done to people. Look at the false hopes it gives people, and yet, it allures us into thinking it is lasting pleasure, and it only leads us into more bondage ad hopelessness. I have been delivered from a life of sin and death, and I will not equate one sin over another, because the Bible says, we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is to say, even if I was a relatively “good” person in the world’s eyes, my very thoughts and motives would be evil in God’s sight. The Bible says that our “righteousness” is as filthy rags to God; you know why? Because none of us is good; no, not one of us. It is God who is good, and merciful, and He gave up His only Son to pay for the sins of the world. He gives us a choice to choose life (everlasting), or death (everlasting); the choice is ours. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord ad believe His Word to be true.
Shequon wrote:
"What a hateful thing to say. People in interracial relationships were once told (and sometimes still are told) they're going to suffer God's bloody wrath. You'd better hope God doesn't punish this kind of hate in the same manner. What an embarassment to Christianity. "
Shequon, if born again Christians were not to show love by telling the whole truth about a matter, then it would not be true love. The Bible is clear that homosexuality, just like adultery, fornication, pedophilia, bestiality, incest, greed, murder, steeling, idolatry, lying, etc, and many more to list are sins. Sin seperates us from a Holy and Righteous God who will judge sin. However, He set His Son to be the Mediator between God and Man who shed His Blood on the cross so that anyone who repents, asks for forgiveness and invites His Son Jesus Christ to be Lord ad Savior of their lives, they would have the promise of a relationship with God, and eternal life. If claims with their mouth to be born again; that is a true Christian, and openly practices lying, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, etc, and there is no true Godly remorse, and a desire to repent from their "weakness" then one needs to question that person's sincerity for Christ. It is an oxymoron to claim to be living for Christ and yet be actively unrepentantly living with someone else's wife. The same goes for male to male sexual relationships, and female to female sexual relationships, and the list goes on. No one here is arguing that it will be hard to leave any sin that has you bound, but it is Christ who empowers us to walk away from the sin; He is greater than the sin that so easily ensnares us.
Will you all please stop flagging Prophet???? IF you don't like what the man says, then don't read it, or dialogue like a civil human being, or lastly, if you can't handle it at all, get off the site. It's that simple folks.
SheQuon?
Anyway, I suppose if you had kids you'd never discipline them. That would hateful. I hope you don't have kids.
And to warn someone of the consequences of their actions is not hateful. Only those who are guilty, with no remorse, would think such things. Are you one of those?
What a hateful thing to say. People in interracial relationships were once told (and sometimes still are told) they're going to suffer God's bloody wrath. You'd better hope God doesn't punish this kind of hate in the same manner. What an embarassment to Christianity.
Response to mmmk: the other reason why homosexuals cannot marry is FEAR. People are afraid. Pure FEAR.
song,
Amen and amen! I don't care what the government says about "separation of church and state". I care what God says. He builds up what He will and tears down what He will. He can bring a nation to its knees if He so desires. He's done it before. We need God in our churches. We need God in our schools. We need God in our work places. We need God in our families. And yes, we need God in our government.
But it will not happen. We are in the end times. Corruption will grow. What is good will be called bad, and what is bad will be called good. We need to pray for the endurance of His saints to remain faithful...even to death. Pray that we will hold the Light forth, and draw men unto Him. And that He would protect us in the terrible last days.
The Church and State issue is not in the constitution. Recent history proves that our constitution has been hijacked by activists judges with an agenda. Yes, our country is made up of many different religions and beliefs, but you can stake your life on the fact that the Bible was the guide used when making our laws and the founders recognized that God gives us rights not man. People should be allowed to pursue happiness, but not at the expense of harming others. I mean if killing people makes me happy should I be able to pursue killing? Of course not. Why not? There is a moral code that man lives by (or should).
So, conservative christians would like the civil right to say homosexuality is a sin, but homosexuals cannot have the civil right to marry? I've seen every kind of religion reason why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. Can someone give me a polticial/other reason BESIDES religion?
Last time I checked Church and State was separate, which is good because our country is made up of many different religions and beliefs.
So please, for the sake of my controversial issues paper about homosexuality that I need to write, give me a reason other than religion why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry- dare I say one of the major pursuits of happiness?
why was I flagged on 3 posts??????????? Please, don't shoot the messenger. I am only relaying what the Bible says about any sinful lifestyle. In this case, as it pertains to this article, it is homosexuality. If the flagger did not like it, then maybe they should go to a all homosexual site, rather than to a Christian site. I war you, you will get Scripture, and hopefully be convicted to repent of your lifestyle and follow Christ which is my hope.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
Chris,
LOL. That's wild. Try not to make a habit out of it. hahahaha.
Prophet, we just posted at the same time, that is amazing! =O)
Citsonga,
I think what Prophet meant was that non-Christians try to argue that Jesus came so that we could continue our lifestyles, Ghandi for instance was a non-Christian, who often talked about what Christ did. Others talk about a different kind of Jesus, and try to attribute various things to Him, but they are also not Christians, in any case, there is no contradiction here.
ifeelfine,
You said, "God doesn't approve of any of our lifestyles - that's why He sent His Son! "
Good, I agree, but you are missing something, repentance. Jesus said go and sin no more, not, now you are forgiven go enjoy your lifestyle. God doesn't magically approve of our lifestyles, He expects us to work to overcome the sins in our lives. Go back and read my post.
citsonga,
What you don't realize is there are a myriad of people who don't "follow" Christ (as in they've never given their lives over to Him), who still like to justify to Christians why they (the non-believer) can remain in sin. They've never professed Jesus to be their Savior and Lord, because they believe that He came and died to forgive sins, and that means that they (the non-believer) doesn't have to confess Jesus as their Savior and Lord, because God is a "merciful" God and would not be so brazen as to expect anything of anyone. They believe that "we are all His children", and do not need to be saved. That is why they are not believers. I hope that you can connect the dots. I'm not sure if I explained it well enough.
Just because someone believes there is a God doesn't make them a Christian. I believe that Obama exists...it doesn't make me a democrat.
Chris333 - I think you need to go back and reread my post.
Let me spell it out for you jesus4me: Slacker said that his sister-in-law made a choice to be gay. I would contend that she didn't make any such choice just like I'm assuming you didn't choose your sexual orientation. If Slacker's sister in law made a choice as he contends then I'm suggesting that he must have made that same choice and chose to be straight.
prophet:
"and non-Christians, believe that Jesus came to this earth, and was crucified for our sins, so that we could be forgiven"
Am I missing something here? Wouldn't a non-christian NOT believe the jesus thing.
Yes, it's amazing that Christians, and non-Christians, believe that Jesus came to this earth, and was crucified for our sins, so that we could be forgiven.....so that we could continue living a sinful life.
They say "Oh Jesus forgives me, so I don't need to quit!" What a rude and scary awakening they'll have when they stand before Jesus.
What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! WE DIED TO SIN; HOW CAN WE LIVE IN IT ANY LONGER? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, WE TOO MAY LIVE A NEW LIFE.
If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—BECAUSE ANYONE WHO HAD DIED HAS BEEN FREED FROM SIN." (emphasis mine) Romans 6:1-7
And then in verses 12-14 it says:
"Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace."
So, yes, God expects us to quit sinning. It's that simple. Really.
Torus,
When are you going to get it through your thick skull that I didn't say that? I quoted architect student, this is a fact. Period. You can argue against him all you want, but the best thing you can do to avoid looking like a fool is just being quite. You really should read posts instead of jumping to conclusions, it is the smart thing to do you know?
It is amazing how little thought people put into their arguments sometimes...
ifeelfine,
Yes God sent His Son, but not just so that we can continue in our lifestyles, Jesus always said to repent.
Ifeelfine wrote:
"Slacker - So are you saying that you are attracted to the same sex but choose not to act on it because it's wrong?"
next time you quote someone, at least quote them in context.
here is what Slacker wrote just to clarify your irony:
“to Student:
My Sister in Law is a Lesbian and I don't stand in judgment of her, i pray for her and wish she would turn from her sin, i love her dearly but I don't believe that she was created that way I think she chose that "lifestyle" just as everyone else choses how they will live. Either you chose to live buy God's principles or you don't, either way it is a choice that all of us have to make in life... "
ifeelfine, where does it say anywhere that Slacker is attracted to same sex, but doesn't choose to act on it because it is wrong??????? He is merely saying that homosexuality is a choice. He is refering to his sister in law who he said is attracted to the same sex, and he was trying to give wise counsel to the architect student.
Here is some wise counsel for you ifeelfine, and p.s. don’t try to avoid these verses:
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
************************************************************************
1. Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
cistonga,
I know I posted this on another article, but I'll post it here too.
cistonga,
Yeah, it is amazing. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, policeman, firemen, engineers, scientists, surgeons, etc, etc. Peope of great minds and intellects believing in this fairytale. Don't be suprised to find your doctor or surgeon is a Christian. But you better ask him first...you know you don't want place your life in the hands of a "kook". If your house is on fire and the fire department shows up, you might want to ask the firman if he's a Christian. If he is, just tell him to go home, because you don't want a crazy man trying to put out your fire.
It's amazing how much you crow about those lunatics...until your life or your property is in jeopardy. Then it doesn't become an issue, does it? Now THAT amazes me.
Prophet: "God told Adam and Eve that they could eat of any tree in the Garden of Eden, EXCEPT the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. He said that if they did, they would die."
Its amazing to me that adults actually believe in these tales.....WOW, just amazing....
To HyperionOverseer & jesus4me: your silly religious ramblings are proof that too much religion is a very bad thing. You are genetically predisposed to religious indoctrination, you have little control over that. Fortunately for me, I have not inherited the religiosity genes.
"we...have proved you wrong on ALL counts!
God man man and woman, there is no gay gene because it never existed!"
Proven what?, are you joking. You have proven nothing, some quotes from the bible is proof of absolutely NOTHING............
I've discovered how old this tactic is. This whole situation with homosexuality and the Bible. It goes all the way back to Adam and Eve. God told Adam and Eve that they could eat of any tree in the Garden of Eden, EXCEPT the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. He said that if they did, they would die.
And just like this day and age...Satan comes along (then it was in the form of a serpent...now it's in the form of people) and says "Did God REALLY say.....?" At that point, today, many Christians will start to question if God really said that. Thus we get all the false doctrines in our Church that lead us away. But there are some who reacted like Eve. They say "YES! God did say...."
But Satan, in all his craftiness, isn't through. He replies (paraphrased) "God didn't mean it that way.....", or "God was lying." And so he hooks a few of the fence-walkers with that one, and more are added to the apostasy.
But I'm glad to say that there are still those who will stand and say "Yes, God did say....and Yes! God did mean it this way. No, He was not lying."
God said homosexuality is a sin. Yes, He said it. And He meant it. And all your "Did He really say that?" and "What He really meant is...." Won't change the truth. And I won't eat that fruit...believe me. And it's sad that a trick that is thousands of years old, still works on the gullible religious, and non-Christian, people today.
Slacker - So are you saying that you are attracted to the same sex but choose not to act on it because it's wrong?
Prophet - God doesn't approve of any of our lifestyles - that's why He sent His Son!
Chris333 - When will you learn some facts and get it through your thick skull that people are not gay because they want to be, they're gay because they are biologically that way. This fact has been observed in hundreds of species other than humans (search for it) and it occurs in us.
This is a fact. Period. You can argue against it all you want from your non-factual religious view but it won't do any good, you've lost the argument already. The best thing you can do to avoid making more of a fool of yourself is to go away quietly until you've learned some facts.
architectstudent,
You answered your own question, you are the way you are, because you like it. I am sorry for you, but we cannot just live however we like. It is okay if you do not want to post anymore, but at least think about it.
we could debate till we are blue in the face. why would anyone choose to be a minority? choose to be ostracised and beaten and called a freak? we are the way we are because we were like that always. there was no choice. but you would never understand. and im over it. i will reply no further to this topic. im tired of flogging a dead horse.
to Student:
My Sister in Law is a Lesbian and I don't stand in judgment of her, i pray for her and wish she would turn from her sin, i love her dearly but I don't believe that she was created that way I think she chose that "lifestyle" just as everyone else choses how they will live. Either you chose to live buy God's principles or you don't, either way it is a choice that all of us have to make in life...
being gay is no more a "lifestyle" as being heterosexual is a "lifestyle". people choose to go to mad parties and get trashed on booze and drugs. gay people dont choose to be gay. and whether you like it or not that is the reality of the situation.
Student,
Yes, homosexuals are truly a rare and elusive people. Maybe we can get a group of people together and you can lead a "gay safari" while we hunt the fabled gayman. LOL.
I think the question you should ask is who HASN'T met or been friends with a gay person. I grew up with a gay guy attending church with me. And I've met a few others over the years, and worked with one for a while. And he knew my stance on homosexuality. But he said this to me one day...that he really respected the way that I treated him no different than anyone else at that place, even though I disagreed with his lifestyle. And I told him what I've told people on here...that I disliked his lifestyle, not him. Just as there were people there who would go out on a regular basis and "party up", get drunk, sleep around, etc. I didn't like their lifestyle either, but it didn't mean i didn't love them.
have any of you actually met a gay person? are actually friends with a gay person? somehow i dont think so and yet you sit here judging them? not very christian like.
jesus4me,
well said, VERY well said!
i couldnt have said all that better myself! XD
i wont say sorry, citsonga
but Jesus4me IS right.
we...have proved you wrong on ALL counts!
God man man and woman, there is no gay gene because it never existed!
1. Matthew 7:13
[ The Narrow Way ] “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
Matthew 7:12-14 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 7:14
Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
Matthew 7:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 7 (Whole Chapter)
3. Luke 13:24
“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
Luke 13:23-25 (in Context) Luke 13 (Whole Chapter)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 6:9 That is, catamites
Romans 1:16-32 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
The Just Live by Faith
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ,[a] for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”[b]
God’s Wrath on Unrighteousness
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Footnotes:
a. Romans 1:16 NU-Text omits of Christ.
b. Romans 1:17 Habakkuk 2:4
c. Romans 1:29 NU-Text omits sexual immorality.
d. Romans 1:31 NU-Text omits unforgiving.
Citsonga, ifeelfine, rand, and others who are gay, or are pro-gay; as well as to the ones who call themselves Christians, but yet don't think there is anything wrong with homosexuality, fornication, or adultery; in other words, the extreeeeeeemmmely liberal and pagan philosophy of "live and let live". Here it is for you: Go check out Joe Dallas, a repented Homosexual who is the founder of Genesis Counseling, and see what God can do for anyone who is trapped by lust, and sexual sin. Guys, this is not rocket science: God made sex as a beautiful union between one woman and one man to be enjoyed to the fullest in holy matrimony. I can name a number of "great" civilizations which of course the secular world will love to point at all the marks on civilization they have made, but history proves otherwise - they all had sexual promiscuity of "anything goes" mentality. men with men, women with women, older men with younger boys, and older men with younger girls, sex with animals, etc, and the list goes on and on; you name it - Pandora’s box opened for these civilizations because they abandoned God, and followed their "fleshly lusts"; rater tan turning (repenting) of their sins. Sodom and Gomorrah, Pompei, Babylon, Chaldea, The Greek Empire, and the Roman Empire to name a few. Where are they today?????? They all had the judgment of God poured out on them, because they refused to seek God and His Will for mankind. God is Sovereign and All Powerful, He can destroy us in an instant, but He chooses not to. He is not willing that any should perish, but that all may come to repentance and a knowledge of Him as a loving Father. Man has a free will to choose God's offer of Salvation thru His Son Jesus Christ. Men have chosen to rebel against God, because they think they know more than HE. God is telling all of you that He loves you, and He sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die selflessly on a cross more than 2,000 years ago so that you would have a Way to God. Jesus Christ proclaims He is the Only Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father (God) except thru Him. While you hear God calling you, don't be foolish in hardening your hearts. God can and will change your life if you so choose out of a willing and repentant heart to accept His Son as the One who paid the price for our sin, and the rest of the sins of the world on Himself. Don't harden your hearts. Listen to what the Lord says in His Word, and Repent, for there will come a time when all the naysayer will have God's wrath poured on them during the Great Tribulation. Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. Now is the day to call upon Him, tomorrow may be too late. Call on Him while He is near.
Here is the site (s) for Joe Dallas:
http://www.joedallas.com/
http://www.leaderu.com/jhs/dallas.html
Here is what religiosity and sexuality (homo and hetero) have in common:
Genetics Driven.
Some people are predisposed to be religious, others are not, I am a member of the latter group. I have no feelings for religion, I am not interested in religion except for the politics of religion, I find that interesting. Its interesting to read the views of Christians on these boards and how utterly convinced they know the universal truths as described in the Bible, and that non-believers are destined for eternal torture because they dont believe-as an agnostic seems silly to me.
On matters of sexuality, of which there is much obsession among religious people who cant seeem to mind their own business, I am a heterosexual, its not what I decided to be, its how I turned out. I knew at an early age I was attracted to females even before I knew what sex was. Same thing is true of my gay friends. They experienced the same thing, except attracted to opposite sex, not what they decided, its what they are. Christians just cant seem to accept the truth and live and let live.
If Christians would spend even the fraction of the time they devote to gay bashing and persecution, to the poor and homeless, then something actually useful to the world might come out of Christianity.
Finally,
You asked for some examples of homosexual marriage threatening the institution of marriage. I think you are misunderstanding this, the "Anti-homosexual marriage" proponents are saying that the very nature of marriage is being threatened by this. For example, if it was decided that marriage could validly constitute a person and an animal, then the very institution of marriage would be threatened (I mean in absolutely no way to draw a comparison between this and homosexual marriage, please do not assume so, because if you do, then you will be wrong).
MSM means men who have sex with men
Rand,
Here are some statistics taken from CDC's official website:
America’s gay and lesbian population comprises a diverse community with disparate health concerns. Major health issues for gay men are HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases, substance abuse, depression, and suicide.
AIDS has been diagnosed for more than half a million MSM. Over 300,000 MSM with AIDS have died since the beginning of the epidemic.
MSM made up more than two thirds (68%) of all men living with HIV in 2005, even though only about 5% to 7% of men in the United States reported having sex with other men.
In a 2005 study of 5 large US cities, 46% of African American MSM were HIV-positive.
In 2005, MSM still accounted for about 53% of all new HIV/AIDS cases and 71% of cases in male adults and adolescents.
You said, "Frankly, this business of all things possible with God is nonsense."
Well, we know where you stand. I for one believe that all things are possible with God, and I believe that a murderer, rapist, drug or alcohol addict, or any other type of sinner can change through the power of God. I have seen my own life transformed, and the lives of many others. I have had to give up some of my own desires, such as having sex with many women, but have received a family and peace in its place.
Rand,
No, by saying 95% of gay individuals had a bad relationship with their father is not saying that 95% of people who have a bad relationship with their father will become gay. This is not an if and only if logical statement, it is an if then statement, logic answers your questions. For that matter I have known a good deal of gay individuals in my life, and none had a good relationship with their fathers (I mean I knew them in person). I am not sure if the statistic is accurate, but it seems to be supported.
Also, no I was not lumping the rapist with the homosexual, and you and everyone else who falsely assumes this really need to let it go. I never said that, never have. I simply put a hypothetical up which stated that genetics does not determine what is right or wrong, I used an extreme case to make it clear and in no way tied the action to homosexuality, stop making something offensive so that you can claim intolerance.
As far as 90% of all aids cases being hetero, first of all if you limited your study to America, those statistics would be different, many of these cases are in Africa unfortunately, and are the result of multiple sexual partners, which tends to spread aids much more rapidly. In any case, homosexuals only make up 2-5% of the population, so we would expect them to make up less cases of aids in the first place. (Again the statistics would be different for America or Europe)
Wow, South Africa has gay marriages. Okay, everyone! It's settled! Gay marriages are okay because SA has gay marriages! We don't need to argue the point anymore!
Iran believes in beating their wives into submission...maybe we should all do that, because it must be okay. Oh, wait! Do have to wait until South Africa starts doing it first?
Seriously, I don't care who's doing it. I don't care if a million people do it. "If a billion people say a stupid thing....it's still a stupid thing."
What scares me is that there are people out there like Torus that have to ask that question.
i am from south africa. we have gay marriage. its rather odd to think a country that promotes the freedoms its citizens have, its interesting that two people who love each other cant even get married. i dont see any freedom in that.
i am from south africa. we have gay marriage. its rather odd to think a country that promotes the freedoms its citizens have, its interesting that two people who love each other cant even get married. i dont see any freedom in that.
Prophet -What is "a female quality"?
Rand,
You dont think that having sex with a guy is a female quality? Having sex with a guy is the most effeminate thing a man can do.
I can't believe you actually posted what you did.
1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
So, wilderness, effeminate men can't enter heaven, but a jock who is gay can? That really doesn't make any sense at all. so long as I don't act like a girl, I'm safe?
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind..." 1Co 6:9
He Who Thinks:
So, when those who want to marry their brother/sister/father/mother want the same opportunity to do so, as you do, I can expect you're total agreement with them?
If being gay isn't genetic at all (as some xtians will insist) why then do we find many animals that ingage in such an act? There is some evidence for a 'gay gene', however it's not conclussive at this point.
i think all things considered, stoping gays from kissing or getting married is among the least of our countries worries. We should do what we can to alleviate other dire issues like poverty, education, healtcare and other issues that affect a broader spectrum of the populace. gays are like 5% tops nationally.
what's wrong with that post? This guy hit it right on the head. Stop making homosexuality such an important issue. Getting out of Iraq, keeping social security, and ensuring high educational standards are what should be on everyone's minds and toungues, not who's doing who.
this website needs to stop censoring my posts. i don't even use profanity and i keep getting little messages saying i can't post what i want because it contains inappropriate words. My posts are well-reasoned arguments. This is annoying.
If being gay isn't genetic at all (as some xtians will insist) why then do we find many animals that ingage in such an act? There is some evidence for a 'gay gene', however it's not conclussive at this point.
i think all things considered, stoping gays from kissing or getting married is among the least of our countries worries. We should do what we can to alleviate other dire issues like poverty, education, healtcare and other issues that affect a broader spectrum of the populace. gays are like 5% tops nationally.
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly;
I can see the fear in so many Christians and other people when it comes to gays. They think that this is merely a choice, like choosing Italian or Ranch, and that we could easily be straight like everyone else. So their fear is that our being gay will influence their children into being gay, and they don't want that.
I can understand that. Really, I do. No parent wants their kids to be gay. But their fear in ungrounded.
We who are gay know better than anyone else that it is NOT a choice. It is the very part of my being, just as being hetero for you is every part of you. You couldn't be gay even if you tried, right? Same for us. You guys have beent trying to vilify us, condemn us, change us, from God knows when. Hasn't worked, has it? We are still here.
As for your children, this should come as a RELIEF to you. If you child isn't gay, then they can see hundreds of gay couples kissing, getting married, cutting your hair, arranging your flowers, being Shakespearean actors, and they WONT' BE GAY. Get it? If you are not gay, then you don't have to worry about becoming gay. It isn't a choice.
And since, as Christian often like to point out, gays are only about 1% of the population, the chances of your child being gay are very slim, then what exactly are you worried about? Why can't you just leave us alone? If we don't lead the life you want for us, so what? Few people do.
So if you understand that you can't change your sexual orientation, that should make you breath a sigh of relief. You and your kids are safe. I just can't understand w