Conservative Christian leaders are outraged at the California appeals court decision last week rejecting a parent's right to educate their children at home.
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Dobson: Homeschool Ruling Strikes at Heart, Soul of Families
By
Nathan Black
Christian Post Reporter
Fri, Mar. 07 2008 05:52 PM EST
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Comments
What about the children's rights? Education is the pathway to success in life. Receiving your education from parents who lack training and perhaps a good education of their own may doom the kids to a life of poverty and missed opportunity.
Remember that manatory school laws were a reaction to parents requiring their kids to stay home and work rather than go to school.
Academic Statistics on Homeschooling
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
jlc,
Be careful even with grade school. In California, they are wanting to teach homosexuality as an alternative lifestyle to 1st graders. That's just sick.
I work in the mental health field with children and adolescents. My daughter is in Kindergarten this year. After what I see on a daily basis come through my office (I do intakes of new clients) I am absolutely fearful to have my children attend public school. At least beyond grade school. Public schools are very dangerous and uncertain these days. My wife and I are considering homeschooling. She doesn't feel she will have the patience to do it, but it's still an open discussion.
I don't understand how a state can control how we raise our children if they are safe, being taken care of, and having their educational requirements met. I'm sure there are plenty of children that are homeschooled that attend college (I have not researched this area at all), and being raised with good family values, lead great adult lives.
I have heard several people, including family, say that our kids will need socializing. I feel that if we keep them engaged in other activities they will be able to have social interaction with more appropriate peers than what is available in most public schools these days.
Does anyone know where the results of any studies concerning children who have been homeschooled vs public education vs private education?
Good News.. Governor Schwarrzeneger said he will intervene on the side of the home schooling parents if the courts don't change their ruling.. So that is a good thing...
And Hitler said, "we need not worry about the adults for we have the children and they are the future"..... and the movie said....."the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world"....and trhe libnerals quietly entered the places of power, the courts and the legislature, the teachers unions and halls of academia... and the cancer spread. Madeline O'Hare did the devil's work and God became irrelavent. And the communists studied at Rhoades and Columbia and Yale... and the new final solution began to take shape..... and then Germany band homeschooling and Amerika is next for Krushchev said in 1963, "we will destroy America from within without ever firing a shot and Hollary Clinton saw to the demise of President Nixon and Charles Schumer said, "the only thing standing between taking the guns away is that damn 2nd Amendment and Obama is an anti-Christ having an experience of goodness but seethes within and Hitler marched into the ghettos and through gun registration confiscated the weapons of the masses and the genocide began.. How far off is Amerika from it's own facist form of the final solution against Christianity?
PS>>> Hitler also outlawed homeschooling
An athiest has run amok?
That could be dangerous. And what is a mok? And how do you run it? Do you need a license?
To Everyone
The flagger was first aka danny2,danny,bob. CP has identified him and has deleted all his comments on CP.
GMG
CP told me over the phone that the one who was doing the flagging had his comments deleted.
citsonga
>>>jesus4me "the flaggers are usually really angry atheists who love to promote"peaceful dialogues"
Do you have evidence for your claim? Perhaps its the "believers" that dont like critical analysis of their beliefs."<<<
Well, not being a CP administrator I can't be positive of course, but the first two articles that were flagged all the way through were the articles "first", alias "danny2/danny/bob" was active on, and he had threatened to "flag you if people don't stop flagging me" several times. And if you'll notice, you can't find a post by him anywhere on those two sites anymore (Darwinism... and Homeschooling...). So, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that it was an atheist who went berserk this time.
Hey schitzo nga ~ don't want to burst your bubble but I had to laugh when I read your comment: "Perhaps its the "believers" that dont like critical analysis of their beliefs." I've scoured this site through the more intersting dialogues (at least the ones that weren't FLAGGED by some morons out there) and trust me, I've seen nary a "critical analysis" of anyone's beliefs. Criticism certainly. But analysis? Hardly.
Like similar sites where you can post comments to NEWS articles, these boards quickly turn into shouting/insult matches between God haters and God lovers. Blah blah BLAH. Not much of a contemporary version of Mars Hill is it?
Oh yeah...and "QT" - I've read your pathetic "critical analysis" on various postings. I suggest you put down your CRACK pipe and actually try READING the bible for a change. You might learn something. We're all rooting for you.
And jesus4me - Jesus is certainly 4 you, but highly speculative postings like "the flaggers are usually really angry atheists..." hardly speak "4" thought-provoking reasonable exchanges. All you're doing is feeding a stereotype against those you believe are stereotyping you.
Bozo sez: foul.
jesus4me "the flaggers are usually really angry atheists who love to promote"peaceful dialogues"
Do you have evidence for your claim? Perhaps its the "believers" that dont like critical analysis of their beliefs.
Uhhhh...and what's stopping someone blocked from CP online to simply take another 2 minutes to create another signon ID?
The CP webmaster(s) need to latch on and find a better solution than to waste time and play "flagger patrol".
the flaggers are usually really angry atheists who love to promote"peaceful dialogues" elsewhere, but when confronted with the truth of the Word of God, as well as with the truth about parents having rights over their children's education; not the public school system, or some liberal judge making laws instead of interpreting laws, they start flagging. There was a similare issue on the other article on the CP which speaks about the homeschooling. Some of the posters called in the CP and complained about all the flagging; and according to that article, the flaggers were identified and blocked from the site. So, hopefully that takes care of that. Flagging is immature and quite frankly stupidly ignorant in my opinion, unless done because of something that is just a flat out lie, and a distortion of the truth, or a blatantly offensive fowl-mouthed libelous comment is being made. Having said that, hopefully the blocked flaggers will be able to read the TRUTH and not be able to flag it. They can tune off the CP if they wish, but the truth must be proclaimed.
Is flogging okay?
;)
Stop the flagging please!!
United we stand and divided we fall! Let us all stand up for our families! Education begins in the home, not by the state! This is a major problem, with the state overruling parents.
God did not give children to the state, HE gifted them to their parents to raise them up in the admonition and training of the LORD!
We are to obey God when mans "laws or rules" violate God's own, and so much of what is taught in public schools is against Almighty God!
It is time for all Children of GOD to stand up and stand in the gap for our families!! For HIS Glory!
As for those who are flagging I pray for you, as the whole point of America is for everyone to be free to express their views whether one agrees with them or not, even if people do not agree with me; I respect their right to be heard and to hold their own thoughts!
Americans need to stand up for The Freedoms of the Constitution, it was not written to take away parents roles in their families. This is a REPUBLIC, not a socialist nation, where the STATE tells us what to do; "it is government of the people, by the people, for the people" as President Lincoln stated in the Gettysburg Address! God bless America!
I have reccomended that everyone frustrated by this indiscriminat flagging report to Christian Post
dongard,
Thank you so much for your brief synopsis of that fact that you don't believe in God. Know that about you pretty much nullifies any trust in anything you have to say. You don't believe in God, so what do I care what you believe about anyting else?
OK. I respect the rights of people to "make educatiion choices" with regard to their children. If we supported Christian Schools with qualified educators, the costs for some of these schools would likewise be more affordable. I am not trying to be "ugly" or "presumptous" but I feel that if one does "home school" their children, they should be held to same standards of certification one would need to teach in our public schools. And while I question the rigidity of some "certification requirements" (this is another post for another time), I have observed with some consternation the "home schooling" of some friends of mine as I grew up. There was often, no structure, etc. Also, if one is required to at minimum hold a bachelor's degree to instruct in schools, should we not consider the credentials of the well-meaning "home-school" instructor? NO-I am not in favor of deligitemizing all "home-schoolers" and their parents. I just am troubled by the ease of qualification to do so.
to xizwyck
lets break it down point by point
i do not support denying the right of parents to home school. I think it is a wonderful way for some parents to raise their kids. however, i am concerned that many parents will use home school as means to raise narrowly trained bullies with no social skills. your comment"My sons are home-schooled and are better off and scholastically, morally and behaviorally superior to their friends." does not come off well in this regard. scholastically is measurable, but morally and behaviorally superior carry a certain arrogance directly on this point.
dongard,
First of all, both God and Satan exist. If you don't believe that, then you really don't have any business posting here as this is not an apologetic forum. You want to debate? Take it to the right place.
Second, if you think that home-schooled children are being "hidden" from the life, you do not understand homeschooling. My sons are home-schooled and are better off and scholastically, morally and behaviorally superior to their friends.
Third, you say that “everyone has a right to live it free of oppression” and yet you would support abolishing homeschooling, under the guise that it “is not acceptable in modern society to hide children from life”.
But you do make one good point. Another person, or group of people, should not “punish those who do not conform” and people should not be burned at the stake. And if you ever read the Bible, then you would understand that many times people operate under false pretenses. For examples, does it honestly appear Christ like to murder someone? I’m sure that you can tell the difference between a sincere person and an insincere person… the same works in Christianity.
By the way, because of the influence of the Christian faith you have the ability to even voice your opinion.
How many Christian terrorists are there? Christians are the ones that are historically, and presently, bullied! Any dictator, king, totalitarian can use ANY religion to push their agenda. Sure, you can understand that.
Not only does California want to take homeschooling away, they want homosexuality as a legitimate lifestyle taught to 1st graders. FIRST GRADERS! 6 year olds shouldn't know anything about sex or lifestyles! Again, its satan using PP as a tool to pervert our children. Hitler's quote is exactly what's going on in America today, but more subversely. Children are being taught about perverse lifestyles, that sex outside of marriage is okay..even in pre-teen children, and that if you get pregnant they don't have to honor their parents by telling them.
What you see here, is Satan dividing the family unit. And the family is the backbone of any country. If he can get the children taught about all these perversion, then when they become adults they will be the driving force behind this country.
And it's happening quickly. Many experts are saying that this generation that is being raised up will be the pivotal generation as adults. Homosexual marriages will be acceptable in the next 10-15 years if not sooner. And then incest marriages after that. And many other perversions to follow. Parent's rights will be slowly stripped for "the children's sake".
Obama did vote that only police, and military or ex-police/militaey should have guns. He voted against saving a life of a baby if born-alive during an abortion procedure; thankfully congress largely voted against him. And during a debate, he told us his worst mistake was not trying to abort the legislature discussion to keep Terri Shiavo alive. On education, hIs plan takes money from current math and science education initiatives to focus on education for birth to 5yrs old. Oprah's New Earth has a SUBLIMINAL logo very similar to the Obama's campaign. That Obama has won any states, shows the true force of the media influence to purposely change election outcomes.
And so it continues....
Children and Family Services wants to take away the parent's right to teach their own children.
Planned "Parenthood" (aka planned abortions, infantcide central, mass murder, inc) wants to take away the parent's right to know when a medical procedure is being done on their children.
ACLU wants to completely destroy the true meaning of family, and replace it with perversion.
And satan sits back with his hands behind his head, laughing.
So goes the beginning of the end.
If they're gonna remove ALL parent's right to home school their children because one person allegedly abused their child, then I think with all the teacher/student rapes and such, that all teachers should not be allowed to teach, and public education should be shut down.
On the one hand, we don't want children who are "identified as homeschooled" to be isolated and uneducated, which is a valid fear. We don't want children abused and working as child laborers rather than get their education. We don't want jihad schools to operate under the basis of homeschooling. An integrated society benefits all. On the other hand, homeschooling should remain an option. Perhaps at age 5 yrs, an initial assessment of child's IQ could provide a baseline of abilities, and then a annual test for all students to assess comparative progress of the homeschooled student. The test can compare the home schooled with the public schools. Chances are high that the homeschoolers will score substantially higher due to most public schools seem to have their focus on controlling student behavioral issues. I certainly don't blame parents for not wanting their children to go to public schools, in some cases the schools not only are ineffectively teaching, but some have safety issues.
Two things....
One: Parents do not have a constitutional right to home school their children," Justice H. Walter Croskey wrote in a Feb. 28 opinion for the 2nd District Court of Appeal.
Is this fact or an opinion?
If this is fact, then why are any families living in California? Who failed to read the constitution?
And Two: This all seems to all stem from the reported mistreatment of one child against the father of the children?
Does this suggest that while the parents cannot educate their own children, they can be destroyed by their own children?
My grand-daughter graaduated "home school" from CA because her father's job moved them around alot and whe was missing credits from her moving. She now has a BA from ASU
in Criminal Law and is a very productive young woman. Home school did not affect her
education. Parents should have the right to chose. Let the state have them pass a test. They would probably come out on top. It also helps slow learning kids that would fall thru the
cracks in public school.
And Hitler said, "we need not worry about the adults for we have the children and they are the future"..... and the movie said....."the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world"....and trhe libnerals quietly entered the places of power, the courts and the legislature, the teachers unions and halls of academia... and the cancer spread. Madeline O'Hare did the devil's work and God became irrelavent. And the communists studied at Rhoades and Columbia and Yale... and the new final solution began to take shape..... and then Germany band homeschooling and Amerika is next for Krushchev said in 1963, "we will destroy America from within without ever firing a shot and Hollary Clinton saw to the demise of President Nixon and Charles Schumer said, "the only thing standing between taking the guns away is that damn 2nd Amendment and Obama is an anti-Christ having an experience of goodness but seethes within and Hitler marched into the ghettos and through gun registration confiscated the weapons of the masses and the genocide began.. How far off is Amerika from it's own facist form of the final solution against Christianity?
jar1961
Re:The question is.. has California contributed to the richness and quality of the American way of life
NO!
Re: has it ripped at the fabric of what it means to be an American.
YES!
I have a question for the Christian community in California... Why do you people vote for people like Nancy Pelosi? Why do you vote for legislatures that represent the worst and most perverted values and enact laws which affect the rest of the nation?
As goes California so goes the nation.. Christ said better to loose an eye and go to heaven partially blind... that being the Truth... America can do without the State of California.. I could only pray that you cede from the Union or that a major tectonic shift adjusts the the borders.
The question is.. has California contributed to the richness and quality of the American way of life or has it ripped at the fabric of what it means to be an American.
For Debs6196.. I agree with you. What do you mean.."whats up with jar1961"? Our country is quickly moving to facism. The thought that a man like Barak Obama.. a man who supports and promotes partial birth abortions, who is close friends with a terrorist who killed cops in the 1970's, who supports Louis Farakhan and who refuses to put his hand over his heart for the pledge of allegiance.. that he could become president is scary.... California is the way it is because the only thing evil need do to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
first aka danny 2, danny, and possibly bob
Biological evolution is a fairy tale and it is a sin to teach kids this garbage. Get real buddy!
Hey, we're not all crazy out here! And seriously, what's up with jar 1961??
Any chance the San Andreas faultline will give way? Seems that is the only real solution to the left coast radicals.....
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security"... Declaration of Independance
"First they came for the Jews, but I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and no one was left to speak out for me."
These are the words of Pastor Neimoeller, a victim of the racist program of the National Socialist regime in Germany during the 1930s and 1940s.
Facists promote the Idea of a Nation in Crisis
A fascist movement almost always asserts that the nation faces a profound crisis. Sometimes fascists define the nation as the same as a nation-state (country and people with the same borders), but in other cases the nation is defined as a unique ethnic group with members in many countries. In either case, the fascists present the national crisis as resolvable only through a radical political transformation. Fascists differ over how the transformation will occur. Some see a widespread change in values as coming before a radical political transformation. Others argue that a radical political transformation will then be followed by a change in values. Fascists claim that the nation has entered a dangerous age of mediocrity, weakness, and decline. They are convinced that through their timely action they can save the nation from itself. Fascists may assert the need to take drastic action against a nation's "inner" enemies.
Fascists promise that with their help the national crisis will end and a new age will begin that restores the people to a sense of belonging, purpose, and greatness. The end result of the fascist revolution, they believe, will be the emergence of a new man and new woman. This new man and new woman will be fully developed human beings, uncontaminated by selfish desires for individual rights and self-expression and devoted only to an existence as part of the renewed nation's destiny.
The court does deserve scrutiny here as it was a very deliberate intention on their part to rule against home schooling despite the law. If they actually did their job (examine the law while keeping their bias at bay) it would have been beyond obvious their decision was contrary to law. Current California law does NOT require private school teachers to be licensed (and in fact many are not). Further, our constitution....remember that document that is supposed to be the supreme law of the land and supercedes any other state or federal laws that are contrary to it....does protect a parents right on how to educate their children. The fact that they so blatantly chose to disregard the constitution AND precedent quite frankly means they are not fit to judge at all.
By the way I have two boys in public school, don't home school, and am a public school teacher myself (high school). Every year the smartest kids that would arrive as my freshman were kids who up to that point had been home schooled. Thank you home schooling parents - you have been doing an awesome job!
Some Good Quotes -Public Schools
http://polemos.net/Quotes%20Public%20Schools.html
Home Schooling/Education
http://polemos.net/Home%20Schooling.html
Wait a moment! Whether the ruling is "good" or "bad" the duty of the California court is to interpret California law! California law presently states that whether they are in public or private schools, children must be taught by certified teachers.
Don't blame the court, they didn't pass the law! Blame the state legislature, and get the stupid law changed. I don't understand the animosity towards the court by Dobson, the Governor and others who should know better.
i'm californian... and i am totally embarrassed every time a california court ruling appears in the news... totally dispicable... the nedow decision, and this, along with their other ridiculous rulings... the california courts need to be re stocked with conservative judges who interpret the law correctly and don't make new laws thru their stupid rulings... total waste of my state taxes paying for these dimwits