Two influential and younger leaders of the Christian right on Wednesday rejected the idea that the religious right is dying, and instead argued that it is alive and growing.
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Christian Right Not Dead, But Maturing, Say Authors
By
Michelle A. Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Thu, Mar. 13 2008 01:49 PM EDT
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Comments
Romans 13 in no way justifies the dismantling of democratic institutions to establish a religious tyranny, and the repudiation every principle of our Constitution which has come at such great cost in suffering and blood. Religious powers, professedly allied to heaven, are demonstrating to America more and more that they have the heart of the dragon.
The pretensions of the Christian Right may seem mild, but make no mistake, it is an apostate, spiritually dead church that seeks politcal power and to influence the State to enforce its decrees and to sustain its institutions. Historically, whenever the church has obtained secular power, she has employed it to punish dissent from her doctrines and and enslave the consciences of men. The infliction of civil penalties upon dissenters will inevitably result.
Our Founding Fathers wisely sought to guard against the employment of securlar power on the part of the church with its inevitable result, intolerance and persecution. The Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," and that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office of public trust under the United States."
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world." The so-called Christian Right would lead our nation only into national apostasy from its broad foundation of civil and religious liberty.
If we fail to heed these words of James Madison, it will be at our peril: "What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of civil authority; in many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient allies."
Enigma;
You might want to refer to Public Law 105-338 which Clinton signed in 1998 to replace Saddam by the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 - Declares that it should be the policy of the United States to seek to remove the Saddam Hussein regime from power in Iraq and to replace it with a democratic government.... Clinton just lacked the nerve to follow through with the bill he approved.
In addition, the Just War Doctrine was implemented with this war on terrorism.
Seven Points of a Just War derived from Romans 13.
Just cause -- All aggression is condemned in just war theory. Participation must be prompted by a just cause or defensive cause. No war of unprovoked aggression can ever be justified.
Just intention -- War must be to secure a just peace for all parties involved. Revenge or conquest are not legitimate motives.
Last resort -- War must be engaged as a last resort only after diplomacy and economic pressure have been exhausted.
Formal declaration -- War must be initiated with a formal declaration by properly constituted authorities. (Congress and the UN both approved our move into Iraq)
Limited objectives -- War must be characterized by limited objectives such a peace. Complete destruction is an improper objective. War must be waged in such a way that once peace is attainable, hostilities cease.
Proportionate means -- Combatants may not be subjected to greater harm than is necessary to secure victory. The types of weapons and amount of force used should be limited to what is needed to repel aggression and secure a just peace.
Noncombatant immunity -- Military forces must respect individuals and groups not participating in the conflict. Only governmental forces or agents are legitimate targets.
mcfbc;
I already showed you; Romans 13. How about you show me where government should be more expansive and/or unlimited?
enigma
to fight a war is for defensive reasons, while wealth is acquired through hard work & good planning.
the reasons for this war is for greed, love of money, (w/c is the root of all kinds of evil)
& power. to fight a war not for defensive reasons is a sin, & to acquire wealth through lies & deceit is a sin bec. greed & love of money is present.
'orced charity is not charity at all when pastors / tele evangelists use fear, shame, & blame for you to give. it is give out of the heart. and I bet these pastors will not give to charity if it is not tax-exempted which will go back to them. that is why there are rich, greedy pastors & tele evangelist who have luxury cars & private jets. Duh!
Enigma,
You mean to tell me you are going to compare this immoral war your Repubilcan buddies drug us into with God's work through Israel. Since you like looking at wealthy Old Testament figures to support your argument that wealth is okay, why don't you look at all the old testament judgements that God put forth. Almost all included greed and the mistreatment of the poor. And please show me where the death penalty in this country was patterned after Biblcal law.
The Republican party is just as immoral as the Dems.... they just choose different sins.
Also, Hawk49.. please show me where God says how limited our state government should be?
The problem with the news story is that Perkins and Jackson want to lead evangelicals away from scripture and into the religions of humanism (secular and marxian) by incorporating the Marxian "socialist gospel" , war on poverty (oh please, not again) buying into the global warming hoax, multicultural diversity, etc. as programs for the state. Any time Jim Wallis agrees with an issue you should know to stay away from it. God is very specific on how limited our state government should be and the other issues are mandates for either family or church, but from God's word, not from the manifestos. Unfortunatley, both politcal parties are taking us down the wrong road to a more pwerful state government; Dems faster than the Repubs.
God established the governing bodies of family, church and state for very specific responsibilites per His nature and word. Romans 13 is clear about the state's role "Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God. 2 So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command,
Romans 13:1-2 (HCSB) For government is God’s servant to you for good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong. Romans 13:4 (HCSB) . Our Biblical God is the only source for true, absolute ethics and laws and only a God fearing governing body can truly be His servant. Anything else will be a realitivistic, positive law with no foundation other than from the one who has the power.
Look how Ifeelfine 72 has twisted issues to his particular point of view. Imagine everybody trying this and we would end up with total anarchy. Our Christian duty is to glorify God in everything; that means supporting Godly governement operations as well. If the state is to avenge what is wrong....where do we define what is wrong if not from God?
"Non-Christians chaffe when we try to impose righteousness on them. Rather, we need to love them, model right living and full life for them, and get them saved."
Why you pompous arrogant know-nothing! You are so wrong! Non-theists "chaffe" (sic) when you act like you really know what righteousness is, whether you try to impose it on anyone or not, and the only thing you "need" to do with us is LEAVE US THE HECK ALONE!
Keep your silly delusions to yourselves, and everything will be fine.
ifeelfine72 -- War, weath and the death penaly. Jesus spoke of these things. Upon His return He will be the leader in the greatest war ever fought. When He was on earth, he some some very wealthy friends, which he did not condemn for their wealth. He came to earth to suffer the death penalty, which by God's law, should have gone to us.
ifeelfine72 -- War is a sin? Have you ever read the Old Testiment? Isreal was born out of war. Monetary wealth is a sin? Abraham was a rich man. Job, whom God held blameless was a rich man. The death penalty is a sin? The death penalty in this country was origianally patterned after the Biblical law. Apathy toward your fellow man is indeed a sin. Did you know that statistics show that conservatives give more than twice as much to charity as liberals? Charity is supposed to be a personal matter, not a government thing. Forced charity is not charity at all.
Enigma - And the Repugs do openly promote sin - war, monetary wealth, death (through the death penalty and through apathy) - these are things Jesus talked about.
tgender - I'm going to promote a law making divorce illegal and make remarriage illegal - are you on board?
On the subject of making Christian laws for non-Christians.
It is often said that you can't legislate morality. This is usually said by the immoral. The truth of the matter is that all laws are an attempt to legistate morality. The only question is as tgender puts it, who's morals do we use? As a Christian, I say better Christian morals than any other. As a citizen of a country whose population is overwhelmingly Christian, I say, what other morals would you use.
Didymus -- No I am not kidding. I didn't say that Republicans don't sin, some of them are horrible sinners. I said as a party they do not openly promote sin. Maybe I should have said as much sin. Either way Christians need to let both parties know that we are a force that they need to deal with.
Jessephillips—
“In my humble opinion, making Christian laws for non-Christians does not please God, nor does it win people to Himself”
Respectfully, I don’t think this is correct. Many of our laws today are based on biblical values. If we don’t use the Bible as the basis to make moral laws, then upon what basis shall we do it? For example, should we outlaw abortion or not? How should we decide?
God created the nation of Israel to show the pagan nations around them who God was and how to be holy as he is holy. Now, the Church is to do that. Sure, Christians should live this way without the need for government laws, but we should also work to make our society a righteous one in God’s eyes.
enigma said, "While the Republican party... at least don't openly promote sin."
You're kidding me, right?
enigma i agree and well said. it is a delicate process to influence laws. however better christains than non. so you would rather them creat laws that are against God and full of darkness. if so our nation will not stand. people chaffe from christains not because of laws but because they dont see us as the salt of the earth. many dont practice what they preach; some are more influenced by the world than the spirit of God. and the world picks up on that. we are the light of this world and when we arent shinning something is wrong with us. but as laws there has to be a standard and if your christain you should want a Godly standard.
I don't understand why it's such a priority that we influence laws in our country?
Non-Christians chaffe when we try to impose righteousness on them. Rather, we need to love them, model right living and full life for them, and get them saved.
In my humble opinion, making Christian laws for non-Christians does not please God, nor does it win people to Himself, rather it alienates them and makes them hate us (and therefore Him).
It's great that Christians don't necessarily want to be associated with on political party or the other, but I don't see how that can be avoided in the current political climate. The Democrat party has become the party of sin, promoting abortion, homosexual marriage and any other perversion that becomes popular. While the Republican party is not exactly the party of rightousness, they at least don't openly promote sin.
Ideally, it would be good if Christians could force the parties to move toward us, but that won't happen as long as we can't decide whether we prefer goodness or government handouts. Many Christians are no better than the rest of the country about "voting their pocketbooks". We need to in all things, including politics, stand up for what is right.
There are some issues in government that we can disagree about as Christians, but we need to stick together on those things we can know matter to God.