Surat. 1:7
“The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)”

Ummmmm…. Let’s break it down.

Yes, the Lords anger will be kindled when any follower (Jew or Christian) goes after other gods or goes astray. But the Holy bible also states that if they will call out His name in the day of their distress that He will forgive and deliver them. The Lord will not break his promise that he has chosen Israel as his chosen people.

With that said this next statement has logic to it.

Now if you think about it (follow me here) the devil would make the statement “…those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians)” because in Revelation 12:1-6 the beast is warring against the Jews and her offspring (gentiles turned Christen) because they follow the true Living God Almighty.

I do have a question for any Muslim. Please answer this question.
Muslims hates the Jews because of what the Quran says, correct?
Jesus is a Jews. He was born to a Jewish mother who was married to a Jewish man and grew up reading the Jewish Torah. (Remember, Muslim came about 800 years after the death of Jesus) .
So how can Muslim respect any Jew when you hate them all?

Michael_ca,

Sadly, If the Islamists truly respected Jesus they would not have replaced him with a murderer thief,rapist paedophile...and what not.

Those who do not respect Jesus ultimately replace Jesus. They move Him aside from the center of their faith and replace Him and His Word with their own religion and dogma.

When the Pharisees cried for Jesus to be crucified, they chose instead another to be freed in the place of Jesus. That was Barabbas. It is noted that Barabbas was a murderer.

How can one reconcile Jesus with mohammed? and call themselves honest?

What can the muslims possibly say against Jesus? or for that matter, anyone else who would care to criticize Jesus? Their mouths are shut by the very holy life that Jesus lived, not because of the inherent kindness of muslims, but because they have absolutely nothing to indict Jesus with...(Jesus, the Prince of Peace)

Yet, they have rebelled against Jesus, believed mohammed...and go round the world subverting and lying that mohammed was a man of peace...and that islam is a religion of peace, when they both clearly are not.

Muslims cannot defend mohammeds actions of thievery, rape, murder, and paedophilia...so they sanctify what mohammed did and threaten those who will call mohammed what he was: a sinner in need of repentance. They protest that they are not criticizing Jesus, so no one should criticise mohammed...but why should we not criticise a religion founded on murder and thievery, slavery and rape...

only a coldblooded person would call for others to respect this heinous injustice...

We criticise the popes, stalin, ghenghis khan, Mao, Hitler...Pol Pot...Jesus (the movie noted here)why should we leave mohammed out? because ? because ?

here is another question x86,
during tawaf (circling the black stone seven times) if you feel like it, can you take a piss on the black stone? or do you piss on the kaaba afterwards?
how do you take a piss? sideways with one feet held high?

steiner,

Who you are kidding man? Now you are even attacking me! (Proving my point, thank you).

I find following post from x86 to be kind and thoughtful. Really, just think about it.
You would not find even a single Muslim who would disrespect Jesus (peach be upon him) or Mary (peach be upon her). Not a single one. Don’t you find it rather odd, from a religion that (in your opinion) founded by a bad person? Just think about it.

Michael_ca

You read my posts...and they did not please you...you felt offended? but that is not enough, is it?

That you are without ideas of your own...without a shred of explanation for your accusations...that does not bother you?

Matthew 15:12...

Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?

But Jesus answered and said, -Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be rooted up. Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.-

You sir, are free to keep your eyes closed, and free, as Jesus points out, to be led by blind guides of your choosing.

Hey steiner,

It seems like to me, you are full hate. I just read your posts and others, you are pathetic man! If Jesus came for peace, you definetely have missed it!

Sura 9:111] gOD has bought from the believers their lives and their money in exchange for Paradise. Thus, they fight in the cause of gOD, willing to kill and get killed. Such is his truthful pledge in the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran - and who fulfills His pledge better than GOD? You shall rejoice in making such an exchange. This is the greatest triumph. (NO! THIS IS SATANS GREAT LIE!)

x86?

Is this what Jesus commanded his desciples to do? Perhaps you should begin to read what Jesus actually said...get a new testament and read up on the real Jesus, and stop trying to obfuscate by telling people to respect this homicidal call to peace....this is not peace...this is a call to kill and be killed...a call for the suicide of mankind...

Jesus said: I have come to save that which was lost...not to kill...

and in the name of Jesus I pray that He will open your eyes to the meaning of peace...convincing you that calls for the destruction of what God has come to save... is not peace...and is not of Jesus...but of satan, who from the beginning has meant to destroy mankind...through mass homicide and suicide...


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1086

All muslims say that they love and respect Jesus, but Jesus says " If you love me, you will obey my commandments." (John 14:15, 21, 23, 24)

Which of Jesus' comandaments/teachings do Muslims obey ? about anger, adultery, divorce, revenge, enemies, prayer, fasting... etc ? (matthew 5 and 6)

And yet with all the so called peace and respect that you claim that muslims give Jesus...Christians are persecuted in every muslim country...Those that convert to Christianity are threatened with death, and their churches and towns forced to close and suffer abuse.

When the Apostle Paul came to know Jesus...he stopped killing, he stopped persecuting...

It is a blatant and evil lie to claim that islam respects Jesus...please stop lying, and begin to speak the truth regarding Islams continued systematic violence and persecution against Christians.


Islam is a revealed religion and the way it was revealed provides the key to understanding wether or not true Muslims can coexist peacefully with others. The following information can be easily accessed in the West with little effort and research:

When Mohammed was contacted by the spirit (Jibrail) in the cave he was convinced he had been contacted by a harmful (evil) spirit and returned very distressed to his wife Khadijah, who thought otherwise, and to reassure Mohammed, she took him to her cousin Waraqa ibn Naufal, who, allegedly, was "a very old man who knew the Scriptures of the Jews and Christians" and on this old man's OPINION , the spirit who had contacted Mohammed was declared as coming from God and that Mohammed was to become the Prophet of his people! (pages 10 and 11 of the introduction to the English translation of the Holy Quran by Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall).

If this old man really knew the Christian Scriptures he would have told Mohammed that he had been contacted by an evil spirit (as Mohammed had correctly thought when the spirit had first appeared to him) on the basis of the biblical teaching found in the New Testament in the letter to the Galatians 1:8 where it is stated ..."if an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached (Jesus' gospel) let him be eternally condemned"...

To be brief... the Koran was revealed by a false spirit (a demon) as the translator Marmaduke Pickthall so unwittingly gives testimony to in his introduction of the Holy Quran page 11, 3rd paragraph: "the words which came to him (Mohammed) when in a state of trance are held sacred by the Muslims and are never confounded with those which he uttered when no physical change was apparent in him. The former are the Sacred Book (the Koran); the latter the Hadith or Sunnah...”

with that statement Pickthall is confirming that the Koran was recited by Mohammed while in a state of trance or in other words under demonic possession.


In the New Testament in the letter to the Ephesians 4:30 ..." God's Holy Spirit... gets rid of all bitterness, passion, anger... hateful feelings of any sort... instead makes you kind and tender hearted... forgiving one another... as God has forgiven you through Christ." This Spirit is not the same spirit that leads practicing Muslims to kill in the name of Allah. Any Christian who kills in the name of God betrays Jesus and His teachings (read Matthew 26:51-53) and is no longer a Christian. Any Muslim who refuses to kill in defense of Allah and his prophet is not a Muslim (sura 9:29 etc).

See here: http://www.islam.us/quran_arben.php

Steiner, where did you find anything that says Mohammed is better the “Jesus”? I didn’t see anything in Quran.

Instead of reading articles/books about Quran, why don’t you read the Quran (well, its interpretation in English) itself? I assume that you don’t believe it to be divine; you think it is written by Mohammed. Let it be so. You have read many books written by human before. Didn’t you? Give it a try. Then you can disbelieve it, but at least knowingly disbelieve it. You won’t be fooled by other.

Muslim respect Jesus (peach be upon him) just as much they would respect any other messengers of God (including Mohammed puh).

If I can respect to the key religious figure of your religion, why can’t you show the same to the key religious figure of my religion? Why it would be so hard? You don’t have to agree on anything from that religion. If for nothing else, you can show respect because he is the founder of one of the significant religion of today’s world.

You would not find even a single Muslim who would disrespect Jesus (peach be upon him) or Mary (peach be upon her). Not a single one. Don’t you find it rather odd, from a religion that (in your opinion) founded by a bad person? Just think about it.

Genesis satan is referred to as a serpent. In the New Testament, Jesus uses the appelation of snakes and vipers. when referring to some..

In the temptation of Adam and Eve, satan uses scripture with his own twist to bring about the fall of Adam and Eve. In the New Testament, the same approach is used with Jesus, but it fails as Jesus points to the whole of Scripture...It is also written...

Serpents have unusual tongues...forked tongues...The implications is that a forked tongue speaks a bit from both sides of the spectrum...it uses the truth and adds or subtracts to it in order to obfuscate...

Consider now that Christ is our Rock. HE is the living Rock upon whom we can build our lives and remain free from the onslaught of sin and temptation....

In Islam the Kaaba is the Rock...it is the temple of allah...here many surround it and worship what essentially is an idol.

Yet, the Gospel notes that Christ is the living Rock upon whom we must build our lives and cast our hope....

Muslims note that the Koran is living and eternal , it was not created by allah...yet it is a god just as is allah... and yet it is a book...a living book that is in heaven...

In Christianity the Word of God is Christ.The Word (Christ)came among us and became incarnate...The Word lived among us and established a clear and examplary way for us to follow...Christ the Living Word...eternal, uncreated and in triunity.

In the Koran, sharia is the path, or river that must be taken to receive eternal life...

In Christianity, Jesus is the Way, He is the living water from which those who drink have eternal life...(John 4)

Islam, in the end, tries to offer a sprinkling of Christ, in order to attract Christians to its god, and yet takes away the only means to salvation...the cross of Christ...

Beware of the serpent, Christian...For without the Cross of Christ, there is no Gospel...There is no salvation..

P 2 of 2

When the apostle Paul accepted Jesus, the apostle Paul stopped killing.

Why did Mohammed kill, steal, rape and pillage? and how is mohammed(for muslims) in the light of Jesus, serve a better religious example than Jesus who lived a truly examplary life?

Jesus says: For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to the Son, that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him (John5:22)….

How can mohammed claim to know God, when mohammed obviously did not know or for that matter did not honor Jesus (if muslims claim that he knew Him).

John 8 :39-47 - They answered and said to Him, Abraham is our father.- Jesus said to them, - if you were Abrahams children, you would do the works of Abraham…because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him…

And what were the works of Abraham? and the works of Jesus?

Did not Abraham intercede for the lives of the people in Gomorrah and Sodom? And in the case of Jesus, is he not our Intercessor?

Did Jesus kill, or steal or rape, or command that sinners ought to be killed? In fact, to the Pharisees, Jesus made obviously clear that they were religious hypocrites for believing themselves to be without or with less sin than the more honest populace.

So, why choose mohammed? who killed and raped in the name of religion and stood and stands against everything, and I mean everything ...everything Jesus preached....why ?

Why not love Ghenghis Khan, or Hitler,Stalin, Pol Pot(and many others)for that matter…why not?

One reason comes to mind: pride in being able to dominate others…that is sharia, and that was mohammeds way of peace and respect (domination and elimination of your enemies)….

P1 of 2 The New York Times has an article on Wilders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/world/europe/22wilders.html

Wilders is quoted as saying that mohammed should not be respected as a religious figure but branded a war criminal like Hitler….

In the article a fellow by the name of Mohamed Rabbae, (chairman of the Dutch Moroccan Council) is apparently exasperated by Wilders’s stance on mohammed. In short Rabbae points out that mohammed lived in the 6th century…

This statement seems to imply that the murders committed by mohammed. in the 6th century should not be a reflection on mohammed but on the prevalent culture of the time that mohammed lived in.

The New York Times apparently does not feel obliged to question this statement; nevertheless it casts Wilders as the antagonist and the opportunistic politician who is simply exploiting an issue for his political ends.

Yet, the questions remain. Why is mohammed considered a hero today by many of the islamic persuasion?

Let us deepen our perspective regarding mohammed and the relativism that he is allowed to benefit from. Is he really innocent because he did not know better? Is that the reasoning?

Yet, mohammed is paraded around today as knowing Jesus, and many muslims today claim that they respect Jesus better than Christians.

Well then, what makes muslims devote themselves to mohammeds teaching rather than those of Jesus, who by the way lived before mohammed?

In fact, why did mohammed not follow anything that Jesus commanded his disciples to do?

We all must respect each others religion either Christian or Muslim..but i would say that Jesus will come back on the Last day is it right???where in the Sorah it is written??

Dear X86,

sorry about my previous post. It was confusing. Let me try to clarify.

There are 6 questions that I am asking.

1. On what basis can allah forgive your sin?

For example, suppose one is found to be a thief and is sentenced by a judge to go to jail for 10years..If a stranger happens to pass by and feeling sorry for him tells the judge that the thief is pardoned and asks that the thief be released immediately..

2. Would it be ok to release him because the stranger simply said so?


3. Is the Koran allahs word?
4. Is allahs word living?
5. Was it created by allah, or did it always exist eternally?
6. Does allahs word have its own power?

X86,

On what basis can allah forgive your sin?

For example, suppose one is found to be a thief. Suppose that a stranger comes over and says...this man is pardoned...release him.. Would it be ok to release him because the stranger simply said to release him?
Ia the Koran allahs word? Is allahs word living scriot? Was it created by allah, or did it always exist eternally? Is allahs word have its own power?

Dear steiner,

Your question: have you committed wrong ever? and how do you know that allah has forgiven you, or not forgiven you?

My answer: Yes, I have committed many wrong. I ask God's forgiveness. It does not necessarily means he have forgiven all of my seen. In the judgement day, He will bring me back to life and I will face judgement. Based on my good or bad works I will be handed a prize (paradise) or punishment (my jail time in hell). God may forgive all my sin, or some of my sin or none of my sin. He is the all mighty. He will do as he please. But Quran tell us that (also see old testiment), God is the most Merciful and the most forgiving. So if we follow His command, he may forgive some of our sin.

Quran teaches us that, everyone is up for judgement in the judgement day. No one will get a free pass. Also, everyone will be judged based on his action and only his action. No one will be punished because of other one's action. No one will be forgiven because of other one's action. Everyone is of their own in the day of judgement. No one else to blame.

steiner,

your question: Tell me, could Allah have contradicted the Koran before it was written ?

I don't understand your question. Where do you see any contradiction?

Well said Prophet! I don't think there could be a better thought out explaination!