continues.....an excerpt from

'We Are All Sinners'
In the final weeks of the 2000 election, George W. Bush discussed his faith and policies

BELIEFNET: Under your proposals for helping faith-based organizations, money might go to something like a prison fellowship that teaches prisoners the Bible as part of the program to help people toward recovery.

BUSH: Yes, absolutely.

BELIEFNET: How would you feel if government money instead was, say, subsidizing the Muslim group that taught prisoners the Qur'an?

BUSH: The question I'd be asking is what are the recidivism rates? Is it working? And secondly, is there a secular alternative available? So the answer to your question is I wouldn't object at all if the program worked.

BELIEFNET: Even though, effectively, it would mean that taxpayer money would be going to help a group teach the Qur'an or the Bible?

BUSH: Right, that's right. But effectively, what I'm focusing on is the prisoner and the result of the program. I mean, I answered this question a lot in Texas. It can be any religion. And the question was, "Are you promoting religion by using people's, taxpayers' money?" And I said, "No, I'm promoting lower recidivism rates, and we will measure to make sure that that's the case."

A results-oriented world says "let's achieve some common objectives and some common goals," and if teaching Bible study or the Qur'an is a method that works, we should welcome it, so long as it's a voluntary program and people, of course, there is going to be a secular alternative that's called 'regular jail.' But so long as the prisoners can pick and choose.


Seems Bush's comments are similar to Barack's............ummmmm.........
Jennifer Riley (Christian Post reporter): Was this posted on this site in '2000?

Check out this Interview.....an excerpt from

'We Are All Sinners'
In the final weeks of the 2000 election, George W. Bush discussed his faith and policies with Editor-in-Chief, Steve Waldman.
BELIEFNET: Do you think that all major religions are equally true?

BUSH: I think that we're all God's children, and far be it from me, as a lowly sinner, trying to decide who gets to go to heaven and who doesn't, for example. I mean at one time, in 1994, I said, "My faith says you must accept Christ to go to heaven." And there was a significant backlash because, as typical in politics, the full story wasn't told. And there was a typical backlash amongst, you know, some Jewish people in Texas that basically felt I had said that they can't go to heaven. I worked hard to make it clear to people, far be it from me to tell you I get to decide who goes. I'm working on myself. I'm focused on me.

And so to answer your question, there are great religions in the world, and it's important to recognize that there are great religions in the world. And there are many shared tenets of the great religions. "Love a neighbor like you'd like to be loved yourself." And there are some wonderful callings. I just happen to be a Christian.

BELIEFNET: If you believe that the way to the Kingdom of God for you is Jesus Christ, in a sense don't you have a moral obligation to try to urge other people to follow the same path?

BUSH: Not in my line of work I don't. My line of work is political. My line of work [my job] is to walk the walk, and respect others, and respect their religions. And secondly, I'm not so presumptuous as to play God. There are many great religions in the world.

God is all-powerful and all-knowing, and, you know, we'll never know until we get to heaven the ultimate answers to many of the religious questions. But the president of the United States' job is not to try to convert people to religion. The president of the United States' job is to set an example, to make sound decisions, to respect religion, and, if asked, to herald religion. But the key is not to hold out, you know, my religion is better than yours.


continues.............

D. Walker

Yes, it is hard to imagine a beloved parent not being in heaven. I had to address this issue with my parents' deaths. However, perhaps you missed some of the rest of this article.

"But he also believes Jews and Muslims and non-believers who live moral lives are as much “children of God” as he is, according to The Associated Press.

As an example, he spoke about his late mother who was “not a believer.”

Does he believe that Jesus is not the "only" way to heaven? If he does, then he is certainly not a christian. But he says he is. So the question becomes, what in fact does he REALLY believe. And this is an issue only because HE has made his religious beliefs such an issue.

There is an article about his autobiography, "Dreams From My Father", if you would care to read it.

http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/coulter040308.php3

It appears that you do not believe Obama is not a christian, nor, from other posts, do you appear to believe that his pastor may have some real problems (in spite of his support of Louis Farakhan). Care to share some thoughts on that?

Being that Obama is not a Christian teacher, I would advise all those of you proclaiming to follow Christ to pray for him in believing such error.

Please try to be compassionate with him, if this is what he must believe for now. How many of you can say that you would accept such a truth if it was your parent who you loved so much and who loved you so much and who was a loving and good person? Think the truth concerning salvation concerning someone you loved so much would be so esy to accept under the circumstances?

God will prepare Obama's heart in this area of truth concerning his mother. Why don't all of you show some compassion and pray for Obama to be able to come to terms with this painful truth concerning a loved one. It isn't an easy thing.

Self righteousness is what I am hearing way too much in these postings. I do not hear anything resembling Christ.

What?

Inner and outer works are of no good. YOU cannot do this on your own, whether by transforming your life by outward actions/works or by re-writing your own life with inner works. That is the agnostic way - through knowledge transform yourself - when in fact true soul changes that stick can only be achieved through a relationship with Jesus. Try it and see.

Why is God blamed for mankind's refusal to follow Him? I mean if a judge gives you a reprieve for a crime and you refuse it, is it his fault? If the same judge warns you that if he ever sees you in his courtroom again for the same crime (or any crime for that matter) and you ignore him, is he to blame for sending you to prison when you break the law again?

It seems to me, God has warned and warned and warned mankind again and again to turn from sin and to Him, but they refuse. Not to mention in America there is a plethora of resources at our disposal to help us "find" answers yet many reject them. How then can we blame God when we ignore His continued warnings and pleas to turn from sin? Do we think He's kidding? Hell is the only place a person who rejects God can get all he ever wanted.

Someone once said, "Heaven would be a miserable place for someone who doesn't want to be there." To be constantly surrounded by the holiness of God and unable to pursue our own rebellious desires would make someone who despises God's laws miserable for eternity. To them, THAT would be hell.

As for Obama's comments: I suppose now, the very Son of God is a liar when He said:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

Let me see now, in whom will I trust? Barack Obama or Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God? If Barack is a Christian how is it that this basic Christian doctrine somehow escapes him?

scitsonga,
I can relate to where you are coming from and I am not going to try to sell you a bill of goods. I once looked at this whole spiritual concept from the same perspective as you are and I realized it was very confusing in my understanding of it. It didn't make any sense to me either. My problem was I was looking at the situation from my limited understanding. I had a thousand question of why. The biggest one was how could a loving God send someone to the place called that I had heard about. I never could understand that until one day for some reason I trusted this God that everyone was speaking about. With all of the questions I had and couldn't find answers for I trusted Him. Don't ask why as I didn't have understanding at this point but trusted by faith. It was at this point that I began to understand that if I had the understanding I would not need faith. As this insight was made known to me I realized another thing. I realized that I just received an answer from somewhere that I never heard before. I took advantage of this situation by trusting that I had just opened a box for dialogue between me and this God I had heard of and immediately asked the question,” God if this is you speaking to my mind why does it seem you are so cruel as to send your creation to this place called hell?" The insight that flooded my mind at this point was almost overwhelming but understandable. The insight God showed me was in relation to my own son. I can love my son to no end and do, teach him right and wrong, discipline him accordingly, reward him as well, but his destiny is based on the choices he makes regardless of how much I love him, reward him, or discipline him. If he chooses to do wrong and act against what I have taught him and warned him about then he will suffer the consequences of his actions and choices. If he ends up in prison, it will not be because the judge sent him there; it will be because he chose to go against the law. The judge only exercises the justness of the law. The judge may not want to do this, but the same law applies to everyone. Sometimes the judge may offer an alternative to the extreme punishment. But again, it would be my son’s choice as to whether or not to accept the offer. If he does, mercy is shown and extreme punishment is avoided. However, if he does not, then he suffers the consequences of his choice. This is the same with God as He sent His son to be alternative to extreme punishment. God does love us, wants the best for us, and has offered to us an alternative in Jesus Christ. It is up to us to accept or reject his offer and experience the consequences of our choices.

For matters of importance, I never accept anything as fact from a single source. Troubling in that these beliefs are then used to justify telling others that their non-believer friends and relatives are getting the eternal torture treatment. For example, on these posts concerning the fate of Sen. Obama’s late mother who may have been Muslim. To me it’s a disturbed person that tells someone that’s lost a loved one that they are getting the eternal torture treatment because they didn’t believe in Jesus. That happened to me when I was young; I have resented Christianity ever since that time. I know people that have grown up in churches that indoctrinated them as children to the threat of eternal torture after death; they now live in irrational fear about death.

The Bible is not based on man understanding nor on whether you accept it or not. God did not swear by man but by Himself. God makes unbreakable promises to His people. He has a standard he will not depart from. He is holy, just, faithful, honest, sincere, truthworthy and etc.
God has told us His standard for us. God said demon believe but they have no good works.
Demon are cast out angles who did not keep their proper domain, God has reserved for everlasting judgment. Now if demon have faith in God and they won't make it, why then should nonbelievers get in. God has sent His Word, and it is still here.

scitsonga on your job, do you think it woud be fair to pay people who did not work but just wanted money?

citsonga, on what basis do you make these accusations and judgments? Is this your own private ethical system or is it just a matter of personal distaste that causes you to arrive at this conception of the morality of eternal judgment?

You like to use this phrase 'eternal torture chamber' in reference to hell, as having a very personal offense to you, not whether or not it is actually true. I do not think it is wise for anyone to speculate as to which person is in hell or who is absolutely going there. I think that the Bible is the standard authority on such references and that it is God's word not mine. What this means to me is that it is useful to warn others about the dangers of hell and the hope of heaven, but not in condemning people off the cuff. In other words, eternal reality is not like choosing one of Baskin Robins’ 31 flavors ice cream, as if it were a matter of a preferred flavor. If hell is truly real, then it is truly real whether we like it or not. When I think of hell, I think of it in terms of how much God loves me. It only further demonstrates how much God loves all of us in that He offered Himself in our stead.

Addition to previous post:

I cannot respect the critical thinking abilities of a person who claims to have put themselves into a faith wholeheartedly, but then turns around and says it's not for everyone. God is pretty clear that Christ came for everyone, and WHOEVER BELIEVES shall receive eternal life with Him. There's no getting around that.

God also tells us very clearly we are not saved by works, but by faith - in Jesus. Works are from faith - we love God and want to serve Him. We serve Him not because we think we can get something from Him, but because of who He is and a desire to show our love. Those that think they will be saved by their own works, done in their own time and out of their own desires will not see heaven.

Obama wants to be my president, but he is not displaying very clear thinking. That worries me. Either he believes Jesus is who He says He is, or he should ditch the faith. Anything less is either ignorance (which I won't tolerate in a president), hypocrisy, or arrogance (which is very dangerous for people in power, particularly).

As an aside:

People here are comparing hell with some kind of sadistic, eternal torture chamber. I hope it isn't. While I have never done an in-depth study of the concept of Hell, here's what I think of it at the moment: When I hear fire and brimstone, weeping and gnashing of teeth, I think of shame and regret. Shame can be a burning feeling which can be quite intense, and regret brings weeping and gnashing of teeth. Eternal separation from the glory of God (especially once that glory is verified) could certainly induce those emotions, and it is unlikely that one would ever truly get over them. The idea of Satan running around jabbing people with pitchforks is ludicrous and a construct of the human imagination - another ploy by Satan to get us to dismiss the idea of hell, if you ask me. Just something to think about. What are some of your concepts of Hell?

Dear Ag, I pray that I do not hinder the work of Christ in my response, but I feel moved to comment on some of your points. First, the single source of information, the Bible, is a collection of 66 books, written by over 40 different authors over the span of 2000 years. It is a work of literary art, archeological facts, historical, prophetic, timeless, seamless, and harmoniously woven love story inspired by God to speak and teach us. To my knowledge, there is no other collection of reference materials that has impacted the world as this. I’m sorry you were burned at such a young age by a Christian. We’re not perfect and we don’t always get the message of Christ across as we should. We all have our own issues, battles, faults, dirty closets. Believing in Christ doesn’t magically make them go away – it only gives us hope to break free from the guilt and shame of them by the Grace of a loving and forgiving God. I don’t prescribe to the whereabouts of the deceased. Only God knows what happened when that person stood before His judgment throne. If a friend says to me “My Mom passed away, and she never believed in Jesus” – I can only bring myself to pray for that friend and his family, and to be there for that friend the best I can. I feel most people would respond this way – but I have heard of stories of “bad timing” when an un-sensitive word was said to a grieving family. Again, we’re not perfect – Jesus is. I haven’t read in the Bible anything about God torturing people for eternity if they don’t do this or that. God is love. For me, being out of His presence is torture, hell. My faith in Him assures me that I will spend eternity with Him. From the beginning He has been fighting to get us and keep us in His presence. Those that believe do not fear death. Death is a weak motivation for faith in Jesus, especially since he defeated death and freed us from that fear. There is more than this. I think a part of you is still looking 0 otherwise why would you be exploring a Christian news website. He does love you. Always has, always will. Peace.

As an agnostic, I find these posts talking about heaven & hell both interesting and troubling. It’s interesting in that a person can unequivocally accept the notion of eternal paradise OR eternal torture, depending on ones thinking, beliefs and interpretation, based on a single source of information – the Bible. For matters of importance, I never accept anything as fact from a single source. Troubling in that these beliefs are then used to justify telling others that their non-believer friends and relatives are getting the eternal torture treatment. For example, on these posts concerning the fate of Sen. Obama’s late mother who may have been Muslim. To me it’s a disturbed person that tells someone that’s lost a loved one that they are getting the eternal torture treatment because they didn’t believe in Jesus. That happened to me when I was young; I have resented Christianity ever since that time. I know people that have grown up in churches that indoctrinated them as children to the threat of eternal torture after death; they now live in irrational fear about death. I find it interesting too, that Christians tell me that Christianity is about love on one hand, and then tell me that God will have me tortured for an eternity if I don’t accept or believe in certain things. This makes absolutely no sense to me at all, it defies all sense of logic and reason. Sending people to a place of torture for an eternity would mean that God is cruel indeed, makes the likes of Hitler & Stalin seem rather benign by comparison. To those that believe in the heaven & torture thing, I say what ever makes you happy and works for you. What works for me is, I try to make the most out of what my life and try not to hurt too many people along the way, then my life is over- THE END……no problem, I have no expectations for a life after death. The fear of death is the big driver for many to want to believe, its certainly understandable. The difference, to some degree, of those that believe and those that do not is probably related to genetics-religiosity genes. Some have them, others do not.

If his mother is in heaven by her good works then Jesus died for nothing. He could sway alot of people into believing that if they are good people like he says his mom was, then they won't need Jesus. That's awful! He needs to study the bible It's all true, and it clearly says in John 14:6 that Jesus is saying that "I am THE Way, THE Tuth, and THE Life. No man comes to the father except through me". That's clear that Jesus is THE WAY-which means the only way. No one comes to God but through Him. My 10 year old can understand that. Also how can Obama call hmself Christian if he belives it is ok to have abortions?

This philosophy is derived from Indonesian PANCASILA first SILA – and its not coming from the Holy Bible.

I agree that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way, just as the word makes clear. I must say though that I have not heard one candidate this year say everything right and completely agreeable with God's way. At least Barak is openly admitting that he is a Christian and believes in Jesus for his salvation (though the other comment is indeed inaccurate - or at least, we are not in position to understand God's will for those who HAVE NOT heard the good news).

What are the other candidates saying about Jesus? Is someone out there getting it completely right?

2 Peter 1:1-3.
But there were false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

I believe in Jesus and that my salvation is secure in Him that I believe, thanks to the Grace of God on my sinful stat.
If Mr. Obama believes his mother is a "non believer" and is in heaven based on her good heart, than the grace of God that saved me can be trumped by works. This is in contradiction with the Bible and therefore false.
I used by brain to come up with this.

I don't see how this is so bad... I got the "jest" that this was a flame against Obama for stating that other people, who don't necessarily believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ can go to heaven to reside with God and his Angels. Who am I to judge if a Muslim or a Jew isn't allowed into the kingdom of heaven? Isn't that God's job?

Either you aren't saved or your discernment of the truth is working. Jesus, all Christians Savior, said He is the way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Now do you call Jesus a liar? SpiritOfChrist.
Since God requires our sins to be atoned for and non-believers don't have atonement how can their sins be forgiven?

I don't see how this is so bad... I got the "jest" that this was a flame against Obama for stating that other people, who don't necessarily believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ can go to heaven to reside with God and his Angels. Who am I to judge if a Muslim or a Jew isn't allowed into the kingdom of heaven? Isn't that God's job?

Remember people, use disernment. It's a God given spiritual ability that He wants you to use!! Don't listen to nut jobs who have an agenda no matter what religion they use to support their radical ideas. Christians can be radicals as well. Look at Rod Parsley and John Hagee. They've spouted hateful speeches against various groups in America, so don't just blame the hate speeches on Rev. Wright.

Again, people, please use that thing we call a brain and think for yourself!! God gave us the ability, use it!!

FORGET OBAMA!!!! He is meaningless. Listen to Jesus Christ - I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER, EXCEPT BY ME!!!

We need to focus our attention to where it belongs!!! It is not Obama. He will be defeated!! It is on Jesus Christ - He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords!!!

REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND!!!!