Evangelical leaders expressed mixed reactions to Pope Benedict XVI’s first U.S. visit, which ranged from underscoring similar values to highlighting the divide between Catholics and Protestants.
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Evangelicals Give Mixed Reactions to Pope's Visit
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Michelle A. Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, Apr. 22 2008 08:52 AM EDT
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Comments
scitsonga,
Granted. But I do not believe that the Bible is the only piece of evidence for the Christian faith. I believe there are two lines of approaching knowledge of God, both of which are found in Revelation.
1)Objective evidence: This falls in the category of the Bible as attested to by historical/archaeological discoveries, teleological argument, cosmological argument, and perhaps a moral argument (I find it strong, others not so much).
2) Subjective evidence: This would include personal experience of God, answered prayers, miracles, a feeling of completeness and peace, etc. I believe this line of evidence is much more powerful, but it is often limited to only the person who experiences it. I could tell you of different miracles that have happened in my life which attest to the glory and truth of God, but if you cannot see them, then I don't know how much benefit it can be for you (unless you trust me, but I see no reason why you should, as we do not know each other save for sparse conversations here)
Of course, also included in the Subjective evidence would be a personal relationship with God which can often be found in Scriptures, thus the Bible fits under both categories, depending upon how one approaches it.
You say you are agnostic, as I have gathered because you believe the evidence to be lacking in support of either God, or any specific view of God. I would probably be agnostic too, if it were not for my experience with God, if you don't mind, I will pray for you that you can have that affirmation in your life as well and be able to believe.
God Bless,
Chris
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH is a Visible Church --a society existing among men and instituted by God, and worshipping Him with external observances which have been developed into a complex ritual. (The Visible Church by Rev. John F. Sullivan, D.D.)
Let us reason out of the scriptures, as was Paul’s manner (Acts 17:2).
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2Co 11:3
Jesus’ resurrection was also prophesied in the Hebrew Scriptures – Psalms 16:10 – his victorious resurrection over sin and death gives all those who follow him a living hope for the inevitable restoration of all things.
I don’t know if any of this answered your question but it was intended to give a brief summary of what Jesus’ life and his death means to Christians.
Scitsonga,
How is it Jesus paid an infinite price, what does that mean?
What I am sharing may sound redundant, maybe not, but if you would allow me to back track a little and consider the “claims” that Jesus himself made; for example he claimed to be the “Messiah”- the (“Anointed One”) - the coming Savior/Prophet/King who was prophesied throughout the Hebrew Scriptures to come and redeem mankind from sin and its penalty. The Prophet Daniel refers to him as the “Son of man” – another title which he used to describe the coming messiah – Daniel 7:13, 14. Jesus repeatedly utilized this title “Son of Man” for himself throughout his ministry– see Mark 14:61-64; my point is this: if Jesus is who he claimed to be (God in the flesh) - well then, everyone must decide for themselves how to respond.
With that said, within the Christian worldview mankind was created in the image of God; not only in his physical form but was also made to reflect his holy character. As you well know, the written account states that mankind separated himself from God through disobedience and through disobedience sin which is biblically described as “the transgression of the law” – 1John 3:4 - brought death upon all mankind - “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” – Romans 3:23.
This death entails a total separation from God himself; however, through Jesus Christ we have been reconciled to God through faith in his Son – “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” – Romans 5:9. “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous – Romans 5:19. References to God’s holy character and law as recorded in the scriptures should not surprise us given the fact that our physical world is governed by physical laws.
Now to finally answer your question: “the infinite price for our sins” – perhaps the word “infinite” is what you are wrestling with; this statement merely describes the immeasurably great sacrifice that was paid to redeem mankind. The New Testament is really a fulfillment of the prophetic account of what the Old Testament writers pointed to – Jesus Christ being the “lamb of God” who takes away the sins of the world – John 1:29. The old sacrificial system that is recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) all pointed to Jesus Christ.
Online4him "Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins"
perhaps i'm missing something here. How is it Jesus paid an infinite price, what does that mean? If he died for our sins. Why is that such a sacrifice if he then rose from the dead and is still alive. Am i missing something on that?
Chris333, As an agnostic I would say that I am unencumbered with any particular belief in the nature of God or whether such an entity even exists, and as such, I do take the view that one's religion is a personal thing and are entitled to that view. You have reasons to think that your beliefs are the correct ones, perhaps they are, or perhaps not. Others, say Muslims and Jews, have their reasons for their beliefs. My position is I have no way of knowing, and I say live and let live. As far as I know, the Bible is really the only "evidence" that Christians have for their beliefs. I dont place much stock in a single source of information. I would agree with you that if there exists a God, then ones interpretation of the nature of God doesn't matter, then God is what God is. Unless I have additional information, I really have no reason to believe one way or the other. To me, it makes little sense that God punishes those that do not believe, or have the wrong ideas. I have my reasons for being an agnostic, if as my Christian friends tell me, God gave us free will and a mind to think for our selves, then I find it difficult to believe I will be punished for that. I can see though the possibility that if there is a God, that God might be using ones existence on earth to weed out those whom God believes to be unworthy of eternal life in some place called heaven and that perhaps most human would flunk the test. I'm sure I would not make it, I dont have a problem with that. The idea of the eternal torture treatment for those that flunk the test is beyond logic and would be antithetical to the claim Christians make of their religion and God- love and compassion.
Evangelicals Give Mixed Reactions to Pope's Visit....seriously who cares what they think of the visit? I mean why are they so focused on what the leadership of the Catholic Church is doing? wait , for a moment I forgot the incredible importance of the Catholic Church for Christianity...ok please disregard my question.
In some of my studies in regards to catholic teaching it seems that some pagan beliefs have found their way into it. They have just been "Christianized." Pattiepie seems to be on top of things. Lidia my question to you is why have you become Catholic? What do you think of Protestants in general such as myself? Obviously you don't know all about me but we are engaging in debate on a very serious matter. It just seems that Scripture is being misinterpreted by someone.
The very idea of Purgatory, and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) all fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was SUFFICIENT to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2).
"The majority of Americans have a belief in a Creator, but realize everyone has their own interpretation of religion and what the nature of the Creator might be"
Poppycock! (Just wanted to say that, no offense scitsonga) It is all fine and good to say that many Americans are becoming more and more relativistic in their thinking, but it is not a good thing. There is either God or no God, and if there is God, then that God is only a certain way. Our interpretation of that is virtually worthless, I can interpret all I want, but if there is no God, then I can not interpret Him into existence. The same applies to the other side, if there is God, then interpret as hard as you desire, but God won't go away.
It is good that we have a separation of Church and State, otherwise the wrong interpretation may win out, and so that people are not forced to accept the right interpretation and their belief can be spontaneous and genuine.
The influence of the Christian Right is fortunately in decline in the US. Americans have become weary of the influence of the Christian Right for the last 25 years or so. The vast majority of Americans want religion and government separate as the First Amendment requires. The majority of Americans have a belief in a Creator, but realize everyone has their own interpretation of religion and what the nature of the Creator might be, so they understand how important it is too leave religion out of government, the courts and public education. Students of history also know how important it is to keep religion out of government in order to avoid the religious wars that Europe experienced centuries past. Reading the difference of opinions on these posts between Protestants and Catholics supports the thesis of why it is imperative that we Americans maintain the wall of separation between the state and church that President Jefferson described.
Hey thelordismylight
2 Cor 5:8 - "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
No purgatory. You die as Christian you go straight to heaven.
Purgatory comes from pagan religions. A lot of Catholic stuff comes from pagan religions. Stop trying to make scripture fit pagan ideas. That is a sin to do that.
The bible, not a made up doctrine, the bible says we will be save thru fire. How do you, wilderness, interpret 1 Corinthians 3:15?
Again, Please clarify “one who is not walking in the light””. If you mean someone who has turned away from God, there is no purging, no second chance…just Hell.
When quoting the Saints, please remember that everything that God says and does is infallible. Yet, if God gives someone, even a Saint, a true private revelation, there can be errors on two counts. First, the one receiving the revelation may have misunderstood. Second, the one writing down the revelation may make an error. Sacred Scripture is immune from both of these types of errors, but private revelation is not.
Therefore, if one finds small discrepancies, or awkwardly worded statements, or things that are unclear, one cannot thereby conclude that the claim to private revelation is false. True private revelation is not the same as infallible Sacred Scripture.
St. Catharine of Genoa on Purgatory
The souls in Purgatory are entirely conformed to the will of God; therefore, they correspond with His goodness, are contented with all that He ordains, and are entirely purified from the guilt of their sins. They are pure from sins because they have in this life abhorred them and confessed them with true contrition; and for this reason God remits their guilt, so that only the stains of sin remain, and these must be devoured by the fire. (Purgatory: Doctrinal, Historical and Poetical, by Mrs. J. Sadlier. Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York. Copyright, 1886. K. A. Sadlier.)
Now, let us reason out of the scriptures, even as it was Paul’s manner (Acts 17:2).
“And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood…” (Rev 1:5).
“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ” (Eph 2:13).
As one can see, purgatory implies that the blood of Christ is insufficient in its washing away of sin and thus, tormenting fire is needed to complete the action. Any doctrine that diminishes the blood of Christ, which is perfect in not only washing away sin, but any stain also, is dangerously wrong. We must never treat the blood of the covenant as an unholy thing. How appalling is such a thought! Please, prayerfully and humbly read the scriptures above.
I'll keep checking in!
I have a lot more questions but I have to leave at the moment. I would like to continue our conversation though. This goes to both lidiapurple and thelordismylight. Hopefully we can remain in contact.
Leap frog,
It doesn't have to be either/or. Of course you can pray straight to God. but the intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because the Bible also says that Christians should interceed: "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something "good and pleasing to God," not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.
Why would I want to have the saints pray for me? The Bible is quite clear that we can go straight to God without a "middle man."
leapfrog-
We do not pray to saints. We ask them to pray for us. Praying to saints would defy the first commandment, and we do not want to do that. However Protestants seem to have no qualms about defying the third.
Amen, lidia.
Catholics believe that Christ accomplished all of our salvation for us on the cross. But that does not settle the question of how this redemption is applied to us. The Bible reveals that it is applied to us over the course of time through, among other things, the process of sanctification through which the Christian is made holy. Sanctification involves suffering (Rom. 5:3–5), and purgatory is the final stage of sanctification that some of us need to undergo before we enter heaven. Purgatory is the final phase of Christ’s applying to us the purifying redemption that he accomplished for us by his death on the cross.
You can’t say that suffering in the final stage of sanctification conflicts with the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement without saying that suffering in the early stages of sanctification also presents a similar conflict. Our suffering in sanctification does not take away from the cross. The cross produces our sanctification, which results in our suffering, because "for the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant; later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness" (Heb. 12:11).
Wilderness wrote: In addition, to offer someone (who is not walking in the light) the possibility to atone for his or her sins is dangerously wrong. Please clarify “one who is not walking in the light””. If you mean someone who has turned away from God, there is no purging, no second chance…just Hell.
Pattie-
Purgatory IS in the bible. It says that Jesus will be judge of our souls. In order to be a judge, He would have to be just. To be Just means to bring justice. Justice means giving punishment to those who deserve it, and rewarding those that did good. Otherwise it is not Justice...
St. Catharine of Genoa on Purgatory
“But I see that the divine essence is so pure purer than the imagination can conceive that the soul, finding in itself the slightest imperfection, would rather cast itself into a thousand hells than appear, so stained, in the presence of the divine majesty. Knowing, then, that Purgatory was intended for her cleansing, she throws herself therein, and finds there that great mercy, the removal of her stains.” (Purgatory: Doctrinal, Historical and Poetical, by Mrs. J. Sadlier. Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York. Copyright, 1886. K. A. Sadlier.)
Examine the belief of purgatory torment used as cleansing with the following verses:
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to CLEANSE us from all unrighteousness…And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:” (1Jn 1:9, 2:1).
As one can see, a belief in purgatory diminishes the cross of Christ, His precious blood, and His power as our advocate! Read the verses again, prayerfully. One’s cleansing does not take place in a place called “purgatory.”
St. Catharine of Genoa on Purgatory
“…she comprehended in her own soul the condition of the souls of the faithful in Purgatory, where they are purified from the rust and stain of sins, from which they have not been cleansed in this world.” (Purgatory: Doctrinal, Historical and Poetical, by Mrs. J. Sadlier. Imprimatur: Michael Augustine, Archbishop of New York. Copyright, 1886. K. A. Sadlier.)
A belief in purgatory proclaims that the blood of Christ and His “It is finished” work on the cross is insufficient for the born-again believer and is limited in cleansing him or her from sin. Such a belief is contrary to the sound doctrine that we find in 1Jn 1:7: “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL sin” (1Jn 1:7).
In addition, to offer someone (who is not walking in the light) the possibility to atone for his or her sins is dangerously wrong.
One at a time, Leapfrog, one at a time! Let’s start with purgatory.
First of all, Scripture teaches, nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (Rev. 21:27) Through repentance we have gained the grace needed to be worthy of heaven. We has been forgiven and our soul is spiritually alive. But that’s not sufficient for gaining entrance into heaven. We need to be cleansed completely.
Purgatory is that cleansing experience, a purging, a purification, for those who die in God’s grace, but who still have many impurities in us, like venial sins, or the attachment to sinful ways.
2 Thessalonians 2:13, declares that God chose us "to be saved through sanctification by the Spirit." Sanctification is therefore not optional, something that may or may not happen before one gets into heaven. It is an absolute requirement.
Hebrews 12:14 states that we must strive "for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord." There are very few of us who die in a completely holy, sanctified state. Something has to happened to us between death and our entrance into Heaven that will finish our sanctification.
Matt. 12:32, Christ refers to the sinner who "will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come" suggesting that one can be freed after death of the consequences of one’s sins.
1 Cor 3:15. Paul tells us that, when we are judged, each man’s work will be tried. And what happens if a righteous man’s work fails the test? "He will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire". This loss, this penalty, can’t refer to hell, since no one is saved there; and heaven can’t be meant, since there is no suffering in Heaven.
" Luke 12:59 "I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper” Between death and Heaven soul is purified of the remaining consequences of sin
Are you looking for the word “purgatory” in the bible? If so, it won’t be found. Just as the Trinity and Incarnation aren’t in Scripture either. Yet those doctrines are clearly taught ,just as purgatory is.
Ok lidiapurple I'll take the bait.
How about purgatory? The Papacy. Going to confessional. Praying to the "saints."
" RCC teaching is not in the Bible.'
Pattiepie,
All Catholic teaching is scriptually grounded. Let's tackle one issue at a time. Please list one Catholic teaching that is not in the bible.
thelordismylight - RCC teaching is not in the Bible.
Pattie-
"When you do wrong you have to go to a priest and tell them all about it." Not true. So not true. You only need a priest to forgive the really really bad stuff. A simple Act of Contrition will do for misdemeanors.
"Then for punishment, you have to say a whole bunch of hail marys and the Lord's prayer. You have to do it a whole lot" Also not true. It is not a punishment, it is an offering and plea for forgiveness and spiritual cleansing. I do not consider it a punishment. I do not dislike praying. And we do NOT have to do it "a whole lot" it really depends upon what you did. Please do not make ignorant inferences and unsupported conclusions in the future.
"I guess you are hoping God will hear you or something." He does... you fool. No matter what you pray God hears it. This is exactly the type of thing I would expect a protty to say.
"Jesus told us not to pray this way" If you are talking about the "vain repetitions" speech Jesus gave... you are way off... a vain repetition is a repetition with no meaning, pagan chants to false gods.
"Now if I do wrong, all I have to do is ask God in Jesus' name to forgive me." Oh so if you kill 50,000 people and then say a short prayer of thanks that makes it all better? Mhm...
"I have a personal relationship with God. You don't. You have a relationship with your priest not God cus the priest has replaced God in your life." WRONG! Oh my Gosh... of all the ignorant things you have said THAT is the most ignorant! You think I don't pray to God?! Every morning when I wake up, I say a prayer of thanks for my life. I do the same when I go to bed. Whenever I see something beautiful in nature I thank God for the wonders he has given us. I PRAY TO GOD! Of all the obnoxious... unsupported... ignorant things you have said, that takes the cake.
First off, Jesus said... "This is my body" and "This is my blood" so whether or not it is in remembrance of him, it is still Him... Secondly... in John... 15:16 I believe it was... "I have chosen you and ORDAINED you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit..." (SERVICE) "And that your fruit should remain..." This can be interpreted in many ways, it can be interpreted (as Paul ALSO says) that you HOLD ONTO YOUR TRADITION. It can also be interpreted that the true followers of Christ stay with the Church.
The rituals and celebrations are more of a reminder, and symbol. They arent requrements to gain salvation, remeber Jesus said: do this in "Remembrance" of me, they are traditions. Did the Repentent theif have a baptizm while he hung next to Jesus? Did he have comunuion, and did he say hail mary? no, He only admitted that he deserverd to be condemned but that Jesus was innocent, and that he belived Jesus was lord. And Jesus said on that day they would dine in paradise. Looks like Christians existed before the catholic church. and all they needed was faith and repentence....
These religious debates are about the same ones they were having a thousand years ago in Europe, the Europeans fought countless wars over religion before thay finally figured out that keeping religion out of government would stop the religious wars.. European religious wars is one of the big reasons the founding fathers of the US constitution inserted into the first amendment "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus to keep religion out of government.
My religion is correct, yours is incorrect, yada yada yada. As an agnostic, there sure is a lot of rediculous postings here as to whos religious beliefs are the correct ones, very illogical and silly stuff.
thelordismylight
Jesus was batizo, made fully wet, by John the Baptist in the Jordan River. Jesus is our example.
RCC is wrong when they just sprinkle. They don't follow Bible teaching.
thelordismylight
You have a religion. It is full of ritual. When you do wrong you have to go to a priest and tell him all about it. Then for your punishment you have to say a whole bunch or hail marys and the Lord's prayer. You have to do it a whole lot. I guess you are hoping God will hear you or something. Jesus said it is wrong to pray that way.
Now if I do wrong all I have to do is ask God personally in Jesus'name to forgive me. He does because His word says He does when we ask. (1 John 1:9) I have a personal relationship with God. You don't. You have a relationship with your priest not God cus your priest has replaced God in your life.
YOUR church has the false teachings... my church hasn't once edited the bible. I have to go now, I would like to continue this discussion tomorrow.
The greek translation did not come out right, but it is not baptizo...
Pattie-
You are just ignorant. My bible was around before yours. Martin Luther changed the words. The Greek version does not use baptizo. I think you are lying, because the Greek translation is Βαφτίστε ... :P YOUR bible is edited every year. It has no authority. Our bible has remained unchanged since it was made.
You are wrong thelordismylight. You can try to say you are right with people but with God you aren't going to get away with it.
You are wrong about baptism thelordismylight. The greek word for baptized is baptizo which means to make whelmed (ie, fully wet) in the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to the KJV Bible. Your Bible probably changed the word to fit your church's false teaching.
Pattie-
I do all the things you ask and then some... if Jesus attoned for ALL of our sins, then I wouldn't go to hell ANYWAY... your religion completely contradicts itself.
Jesus paid for all your sins and rose from the dead. if you believe this, and you accept what Jesus did for you, and want Jesus to save you then you ask Jesus in prayer to forgive you of your sins, come live in your heart, and be the boss of your life. If you do this then Jesus come lives in your heart. The Holy Ghost changes your life. He gives you God's nature. You have to chose to live for God and do those things He wants you to do. If you obey, then you wills go to heaven. If you rebel then you will end up in hell cus you didn't obey Jesus. You have to obey Jesus if you want to go to heaven. One way you now you are saved is if Jesus changed your life after you asked Him to save you. If you remained the same ole person then He didn't save you.
Pattie-
I do not live like the devil. And there is no Greek or Latin translation for dunk, immerse, submerge, or put underwater... they used the word meaning "expose to" which can mean sprinkling. And yes, jesus DOES have good works that he wants us to do. I DO believe in Jesus, I DO believe that he rose from the dead! What do you think I am?! Catholics are christians! We believe in christ! We were the FIRST christians...
thelordismylight
God's Word says that Jesus is the author of eternal life to all who obey Him. You can't lives like you want. You have to make Jesus boss of your life. You have to do what He wants you to do.
Jesus says to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. That means belive that Jesus paid for your sins and rose from the dead. Jesus wants you to be water baptized. That means dunked completely under water. Then Jesus says we have to live righteously. Jesus says He has good works that He wants us to do. Jesus says we have to forgive people who do us wrong.
You can't live like the devil and expect to go to Heaven. If you live like the devil then you have to repent or you will perish.
Pattie-
It isn't the way you talk. It is what you say:
"Heathan pagan- that is what you are" obviously a little child's retort.
Pattie-
You are wrong. The bible says "Nothing impure may enter heaven" (impure or unpure) So... if I did ANYTHING wrong... then I would automatically go to hell? If so then the Protestant religion completely contradicts itself because, it teaches that jesus' death was all-atoning and we don't have to do anything to go to heaven.
I am not a little girl. I just don't talk real good.
WAIT! Pattie... don't protties believe that Jesus' death was all-atoning?! Doesn't that mean that I will go to heaven no matter what?
Purgatory - no such place thelordismylight. That place comes from pagan religions. The Macabees took that teaching and puts it in their writings. Jesus never talks about purgatory. it is either heaven or hell. Nothing in between.
Pattie-
You are obviously a little girl. You shouldn't be talking to strangers, especially online.
Pattie-
No. Yous is wrongs. The RCC tells me that I can respectfully disagree with them. Look it up. Yous ares wrongs.
heathan pagan - that is what yous is thelodismylight.
thelordismylight
Plenty of people have showns you that you is wrong. But yous don't want to hears it cus the RCC tells yous you will go to hell if yous disagree with them.
Pattiepie-
Rather, it is YOU that will be going to PURGATORY (see? My version is nicer) if you do not repent! "He who does not eat the son of God has no life" if you aren't receiving the Eucharist you have no life.
Pattiepie-
I'll take my chances... *cough* heathan pagan *cough*
thelordismylight - You are goin to hell if you don't repent.
Pattie-
Prove it.
Mary Mother of God:
Jesus was god, Mary was his mother.
Mary, Lady of the Apocalypse:
The lady of the Apocalypse will be clothed with the sun and she will have stars around her head. See the picture of "Our Lady of Guadalupe" she meets all these requirements.
And as a nice little end, Mary Immaculate:
When the Archangel Gabriel addressed Mary in the first chapter of Luke's Gospel, he said, "Hail Mary, full of grace," (kecharit men in Greek, from the root word charis, meaning grace). She was full of grace because of the Immaculate Conception, a divine gift to her from God. She didn't earn or merit it. He freely gave it to her, so she could provide a worthy, spotless, and pure human nature for Jesus.
Hey thelordismylight
Your Bible interpretations are wrong.
I will address the main laws in the RCC that Protestants tend to pick on:
Purgatory:
COMPLETELY misunderstood. First I would like to clear something up: Not everyone goes to Purgatory. The RCC teaches that people (sick, poor, retarded) are already living in purgatory (or in the case of the retarded, pure innocence) and that they go straight to heaven. And even the people that live an "ok" life can go straight to heaven. However... for those that are not so nice, but not bad enough to go to hell... they need some purification :P Think of it this way (and I quote from an official Catholic document with a Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur)
Joe and Max were both born on the same day and both died on the same day. Joe was a gambler, boozer, and womanizer, and he was dishonest, lazy, and undependable. Max on the other hand, spent his life obeying the Ten Commandments, practicing virtue, and loving God and his neighbor. Just before dying, Joe converts. Should they both go to heaven at the same time? The Church teaches no. We believe that Jesus' death allows everyone the possibility of heaven, and his mercy grants forgiveness, but his justice demands that good be rewarded and evil be punished - in this lif or the next. If one man struggles all his life to be good while another lives a life of selfishness, greed, and comfort, both cannot walk through the pearly gates side by side.
When you think of it that way, doesn't it seem a bit unfair...?
wilfir-
We never recanted it because we still believe in it. :P
Pattie-
What RCC teachings aren't in the bible? O4H couldn't come up with ONE that I could not defend. Protestant teachings aren't in the bible... there is practically NO evidence for a rapture! What about laws prescribing fasts? Before they did anything, whether it be preaching, praying, or forgiving sins the apostles would FAST! As for acts... let's see... what is the best way to get into heaven... by being Christian... by being christ-like... gues what Christ did! ACTS! Christ did ACTS! He did them to prove he was the Son of God, we do it to prove that we have faith in God! It is in the bible... it really is...
Enough of this
Romans 14:1
Welcome those who are weak in faith, but not for the purpose of quarreling over opinions.
Catholics, and Protestants, lets shake hands, and move on from this.
Hey thelordismylight
If you is goin to count on your good works to gets yous into Heaven you is goin to come up short.
If you are a countin on the teachins of the RCC to get to Heaven yous not goin to makes it. RCC teachins are not in the Bible.
Yous is saved by grace thru faith not by works.
To God yous is no good. There is no reason for Him a wantin to saves you. Even though yous is God's enemy cus of sin, He had His Son Jesus Christ dies for your sins so yous wouldn't have to. God rosed Him from the dead showing His victory over death. Sin brings death. God has power to gives you victory over sin and death. Only Jesus cans save yous. Noone else died for yous only Jesus. If yous believe this and accepts what Jesus did for you, yous can be saved. Ask Jesus to forgive yous, come live in your heart and be the boss of your life. If yous do, thens you'll be saved. If yous don't then yous still lost in your sins and whens you die yous will go to hell.
I don't talk good but what I says is truth.
I bet evangelicals gave "mixed reaction" to the Pope's visit. For once, fuzzy ecumenism is out and straight talk is in. Pope Benedict clearly outlined the problems, not only with the liberal Protestant churches, but also with the ever-expanding, individualistic evangelical groups, including the pentecostals and emergent Christian groups. And what else did you expect him to say?
Greetings,
At this point it is my impression that the Roman Church has never recanted from their "anathama" of the Biblical teaching of "sola Fide". Salvation through faith in Christ alone. They continue, if not in a stealthy way, to add works to faith for salvation.
Show me where Rome has recanted their decision at the Council of Trent.
Peace be with you,
bob
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Edit: Behod should be Behold
Jesusis-
What are you talking about? Jesus built the church. He said he built the church. And he said "Behod, I am with you all days..." That means he is with his church... His TRUE church...
As for about "What you are doing rather than what you are being" Think about it... Jesus did acts. 7 out of ten of the ten commandments are about WHAT you do and HOW you do it. That means... 70% of what you do to gain access to heaven... isn't coming out of your head.
Dear Brother Creation,
Try reading the Catacumen of the Catholic Church before you judge. You will find that you teaching of the Bible being literally true and infallible are secure only in the fullness of truth that the Catholic Church holds dear. There has been no deviation in the teaching of truth and morals since the church in Antioch in AD 95. Since you are evidently a protest(ant) try understanding at least the erse when Jesus breathed upon Peter the Holy Spirit and told Peter that upon him (peter) He (Jesus) would build his church, and ther gated of Hell would not prevail against it. Now then, check and see how many protest(ant) pastors have preaches on that passage of scripture. At the same time, learn enough Latin to verify what those sermons tell you. Once you do you will be joining the local RCIA class at your local Parish church and preparing for the Easter Vigil. MArk my words. It is the "fullness of truth." As Bishop Sheen stated, "no one hates the Catholic Church. They hate what they think the Catholic Church is. Find out for yourself.
Benedict hurt the church when he demanded that salvation is found only in Roman Catholic "church". He himself has separated Catholics from other Christians in his statements clearly stated less than a year ago. John Paul II was much more accepting of other churches.
Creation, PROVE your claims.
What's with "Prominent theologian Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.?" Any mention of him on this site is "prominent," "well known," "influential," blah, blah. Is this his website and he's trying to promote himself? Who is he prominent with?
I watched as many of the Pope's speeches as I could and I thought "this won't be contradictory to any other denomination," yet our brother Albert Mohler says unless one submits one's self to the universal claims of the Catholic Church, they are in spiritual danger. Perhaps he could define one of those claims: That Jesus founded a Church in 33 A.D. that the gates of hell would not prevail against (Mt. 16:18) In almost 2,000 years, despite the mistakes that the sinners who make up Jesus' Church have made (myself included), Jesus' Church still stands. The danger is that others prefer Luther's church to Jesus' Church. All one asks is that you read the writings of the earliest Christians: Ignatius of Antioch, Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, etc. Remember, back then, there was only one denomination, and it was Catholic.
Creation, you must be kidding by saying "the truth of the matter..." and then making a claim like that. Why do you accept the word Bible? It's not in the Bible. The Catholic Church provided that. Same with Trinity. Same with the books of the Bible. 1 Tim 3:15 says the foundation of truth for Christians is the Church. Do you believe that? I do.
Do you believe that the gates of hell did not prevail against Jesus' Church as it says in Mt. 16:18? I do.
Do you believe that Mary is the mother of all who proclaim the good news of Jesus as it says in Rev. 12:17? I do.
My friend, just go back and read the writings of the earliest Christians, then realize that perhaps you haven't been told the whole story.
Unfortunately for them he doesn't comment about their opinions, it's almost as if he doesn't care. You can find many articles/ comments by Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr about the Pope, but can you find 1 article/comment from the Pope about Dr. Albert Mohler???
Well I guess we can appreciate the 2 cents of these evangelicals because at least they are following the Pope's speeches etc. I'm sure the Pope welcomes there opinions because it reveals how relevant his position is even if they disagree with him.
I also want to say that I DO believe that there are some Catholics that probably believe the gospel. But I believe that the doctrines of the Church itself in regard to salvation, prayer, and other topics are in opposition to the bible.
The truth of the matter is that the Bible and the Catholic doctrines are contradictory to each other. And are not in agreement. So in essence they can not be united in Christ. But as Christians we should still love the Catholics because they are neighbors. And Jesus directs us to care for and love neighbors. But we must realistically admit that even though we are neighbors we are not brothers and sisters in the faith.