Attorneys from the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), a Christian legal group, are challenging a newly proposed lesson plan by schools in Minneapolis, Minn., to carry out what ADF claims amounts to the homosexual indoctrination of elementary school students.
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Christian Legal Group Protests New Pro-Gay Curriculum
By
Aaron Leichman
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, May. 06 2008 03:24 PM EDT
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I've not been able to find one so I'm starting one. A heterosexual & pre-adult abstinence alliance to take back our country from the gay & lesbian alliance and militant gay movement.
I saw another article today regarding the boy scouts being targeted and I'm sick of it. Such a small group of people causing such harm to our country is not tolerable anymore and I wonder why it ever was.
So I'm calling out to all groups who would be against the g & l movements and would be willing, able, and even anxious to join an alliance for heterosexuality and pre-adult abstinence. One goal would be to come to the aid of groups and companies which would be targeted by the gays. If they're boycotted, we fill the gap with sponsorships and customers. When they're bullied, we help them fight back and win. When congress is unduly lobbied by the g&l movement, we lobby harder. Divided we lose, but united we win. There are far more against the gay movement than for it so it's time we all held hands and shouted together "No More!".
Scott Keller
Founder
Heterosexual & pre-adult abstinence alliance
(We'll think of a catchy acronym soon.)
scott_t_keller@yahoo.com
Ifeelfine72 "Hence, homosexuality is no more sinful than eating shellfish according to Lev. "
There are two things the New Testement does. In some situations it states freedom from the Law and in others it upholds it (I did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it". As stated in my previous post the New Testement upholds the law concerning homosexuality. Under grace marriage between a man and woman is a foundational example of Christ and the Church.
As for shell fish..."But food will not commned us to God;we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat." 1 Cor. 8:8
"One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only." Romans 14:2.
FYI, many shell fish can many you sick if it isn't caught, kept and cooked correctly. We know that now. They had no way of doing this (can you imagine eating shrimp that has been sitting our raw at an outdoor market all day?). Some of the law concerning food was to teach us how to deny ourselves (such as fasting) and was not about the food at all.
Just for the pork fans here...what a pig eats turns into what you eat in about 4 hours. With a cow it's about 2 days. Pork used to be (and some places still is) reconstituted slop. This is why the pork industry now feeds a specific 'healthy' diet to it's porkers.
All righty then....
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." Leviticus 18:22
"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." Romans 1:26-27
Greek: natural (5446) physical (by impl) instinctive.
This means physical actions.
Old Testament confirmed by the New Testament. Anyone who still thinks God approves of homosexual behavior please provide scripture to back up your statement. This is "Christian Post" so we are discussing the Christian view vs. the non-Christian view here. I believe these verses to be quite clear on Gods position.
ifeelfine,
"The Bible always addresses homosexual relationships the exact same way it deals with heterosexual ones."
??? The Bible never said that heterosexual relationships were an abomination, there is no place where after rejecting God people were given over to heterosexual relationships. Paul clearly addresses husbands and wives, not husbands and husbands, or wives and wives. My question is, why does the Bible not treat relationships ambiguously, it should be a no brainer that if all relationships should be in love then homosexual relationships should be in love too. That doesn't seem to be the issue.
"What denomination are you? Great. Now is everyone else from every other denomination going to hell because they aren't in your denomination?"
???Where did I ever give you this impression, you are trying to slander me because you haven't been able to deal with my points. Stick to the topic and don't try to put something on another person which there is no evidence for. Are you confused with who you are talking to or something?
"And you haven't dealt with the slavery issue, you've played semantic gymnastics to get around it, like you always do."
You really lost it on this post, are you sure you are talking to me? Do you know what "semantic gymnastics" are? That means that you try to stretch the meaning of words to an extent which is not in adherence to the obvious meaning in order to support your position. Can you show a single example where I have done this (you can use any post I have ever written)? If not then you are slandering me unjustifiably. As far as dealing with the slavery issue, go back and read everything I posted (obviously you ignored it).
I cannot carry a conversation with you on any level if you are going to make these kinds of absurd claims (I am not trying to be mean here, but this is really going way too far). I have stated my position clearly. You have two choices now. 1) deal with the points I have actually raised, or 2) State your case and support it with evidence. I have not seen you do either.
Chris: The Bible always addresses homosexual relationships the exact same way it deals with heterosexual ones.
What denomination are you? Great. Now is everyone else from every other denomination going to hell because they aren't in your denomination?
And you haven't dealt with the slavery issue, you've played semantic gymnastics to get around it, like you always do.
Bmore,
I have no idea what you are talking about, please quote what I said. The only thing I said remotely close to that was some response to ifeelfine, where I said that Paul was not addressing "unloving" homosexual relationships but all homosexual relationships.
Jar, once again, you condemn me, although you do not know me. Christ is in my heart, you have no authority to say otherwise. Only Jesus himself may say that.
Chris, the way I interpret your post is that if St. Paul addressed homosexual unloving desires, then awesome, mine are full of love, I'm out of that hot water.
Also ifeelfine,
I suggest giving up the slavery argument, it is not comparable to homosexuality, and your postion has been constantly dealt with.
Bmore,
The Catholic Church is adamant on its position on homosexuality, as a Catholic you should ask your Priest if you have an opinion. Infallibility is loosely defined as that which has been explicitly stated by the RCC as so, and what Tradition has constantly maintained. I am sure the RCC does not have an official doctrine that was "infallibly" called that addresses eating babies, but the RCC position is clear on it, and to go against the RCC position is to go against the RCC.
ifeelfine,
"I am not trying to give the Bible a bad name - you all are doing a pretty good job of that and don't really need my help."
An unproven statement, based upon personal perspective.
"with over 3000 denominations, you choose to say only those that don't believe all homosexuality is a sin are not Christian? Hogwash."
Great, you know some "denominations" might say that multiple wives are right, some might say that pedophilia is okay, others might say that killing adulterers is good. You are apealing to confusion. You must make an argument from the Bible, just saying "some people agree with me" does not mean anything, some people agree against you, others agree on absurd things.
"I've always maintained that the Bible shows homosexuality is sinful only in the same way that heterosexuality is sinful (lustful relationships, non-committed, not of the spirit, unequal, etc)."
Then why on earth does the Bible address "unloving" homosexual relationships directly, and not "unloving" heterosexual relationships? Why not an ambiguous, "let your relationships be loving"? Why doesn't Paul say, "Let each man have one husband or wife, and each woman a husband or wife" instead of the exclusive terms he uses? How do you interpret the "husband being the head of the wife"? Why isn't it, "the dominant partner being the head of the not-dominant partner"? The text simply does not support this position.
IFEELFINE: Listen, I know you are trying to provide some sense of biblical knowledge but throughout Scripture God made clear His dissatisfaction with slavery....you really need to study the Hebrew and greek to understand the more precise meaning. God never took pleasure in the institute of slavery
jar: Abomination back in the OT (esp. Lev.) referred not to a "hateful thing" but rather to customary Jewish traditions. Hence, homosexuality is no more sinful than eating shellfish according to Lev.
jar: When did God ever say that slavery was wrong? I'll save you the time from looking - He didn't. He told slaves how they were to act. You are a moral relativist just like the rest of us Christians that post here. I am at least honest about it.
IFEELFINE: Ummm wrong again... slavery was never acceptable in the eyes of God. He went to MOses and said: Tell them I Am said let my people go"... As with warfare, Christ never condemned soldiering. He as the creator of the universe understood the reality of the human experience. God recognized slavery and said, if one is a bond servant to another, be the best slave you can be. In all ways humble yourself knowing I am always with you. It does not mean God condoned it.
With respect to serving 2 masters he said of man... man can not serve to masters, mammon and GOd (mammon: the pleasures of the world, money) for he will come to love one and hate the other...
FOR BALMORE: BMORE your attitude about your lifestyle I really find more offensive than the fact you believe yourself gay. In the last 4 days you have blamed everyone and everything for your anger and sexual orientation. I have stated on no less than 3 occasions that in Christian baptism we are called to die to the old man, to put on the new man. The proof of the presence of the Holy Spirit is our struggle against sin not our continued pursuit and justification of it.
YOu absolutely are hardened of heart.... you refuse to hear with the Spirit. Every other born again, Bible believing Christian on this site has offered you sage counsel.
And again, the temptation (desire) to sin is different than willful sin. THere is a difference between thinking about robbing a bank and robbing it......
While you may beleive yourself to be born gay, the fact that it is biblically called an abomination the mere ingrained desire towards homosexuality is different from you living a celibate life inspite of your desire. It is your choice who is the lord of your life.. and its obvious as far as any Christian here can tell, that Chirst is not the Lord in your life.. you have decided your homosexual desires are the lord of your life...
NOw can anyone make it more clear?
Daniel Paul said: "The Bible is clear on slavery. The gospel says Christians are owned by the Lord. They are bond slaves. You cannot serve two masers. Therefore, for a Christian to 'own' another 'Christian' as a slave just doesn't work from a Biblical point of view."
That's some interesting semantic gymnastics, Daniel Paul - and not the least bit Biblical. The next time my asks me to do something, I'll tell him, "well, Daniel Paul on Christian Post says I can't serve two masters so I guess, I can't do what you tell me to."
Slavery was supported in both the OT and the NT. Look, I am not trying to give the Bible a bad name - you all are doing a pretty good job of that and don't really need my help. I just want you to understand that there are other positions and doctrinal beliefs that are every bit as Christian - with over 3000 denominations, you choose to say only those that don't believe all homosexuality is a sin are not Christian? Hogwash.
I've always maintained that the Bible shows homosexuality is sinful only in the same way that heterosexuality is sinful (lustful relationships, non-committed, not of the spirit, unequal, etc).
I agree, Bmore! The thumbs don't really tell you much if they don't post. Also, I wonder who put the mouth face as the default instead of the smile.
I have to say, I get very annoyed by the people who give my postings a thumbs down but don't take the time to tell me why. I always give reason if I disagree, I wish everyone on here could do the same. I asked a very honest question, answer it, don't just give it a thumbs down and walk away.
I wanted to split up my thoughts so I wouldn't go over the 3,000 character limit :) I can accept your views on sex outside of marriage and including sex between men as fitting into that category. If that's what you believe, thats fine. My issue is that being gay is so often reduced to only sex. Even if I wasn't having sex, or if I dated a girl, I would still be gay because my attraction is fundamentally for a man, and not only for his physical presence. I am attracted to my partner emotionally and psychologically. We have a connection and complete each other, support each other, and bring out each others' best. We don't need to have sex to express that love, but just like a married couple, our sex can be a beautiful way to express that love. (I am not declaring my thoughts as any dogma, so I realize many will refute what I am saying.) I also allow Jesus to lead me and live in my heart. Jesus lead me to being a teacher in one of Baltimore's worst neighborhoods, and I am very good at my job with his strength! Here is a question I never understood that I would like people to answer (please do so in a non-judgmental way, I really am curious!) If you believe Christ is all powerful and loves us, how could Satan have power over him? How could there be one whose power rivals that of the Lord? With that in mind, I believe if Christ is in my heart, he wouldn't let Satan in and overpower or destroy me, especially by invading my spirit as a child and making me gay. I truly don't see how that could make sense. Ideas?
Chris, just to clarify, the RCC doesn't claim infallibility on everything. There is actually a huge process for having doctrine declared infallible, and examples are things like Christ's presence in the Eucharist, Mary's virginity, and Christ's ascension into Heaven. Homosexuality isn't an infallible position of the Church. That being said, my opinions about it are a mixture of my personal experiences, what I have read of the Bible (I've been in Catholic school since 2nd grade, so I feel that my views are well formed and rounded) and what I have learned from others (such as those pastors and scholars interviewed in "For the Bible Tells me So.") While my views are certainly separate from what many Christians accept, I can only pray, reflect, and follow Christ in my heart. So long as Christ is alive in my heart, I do not believe Satan can overpower me.
Bmore,
I just wanted to point out a hole in your logic.
You said, "neither of us know we will truly inherit the kingdom of God until we get there, so stop trying to condemn me and my beliefs and I will not condemn yours."
This does not hold. You have stated that it is impossible to know the truth until we are in heaven. You used this as an excuse to say that we should not condemn one another. Well, since you do not know if you possess the truth, then it is not right for you to tell us that we should not condemn your actions, because it could be true that it is right for us to condemn your actions. Follow? Let us suppose that jar is right, and that it is good for him to condemn your actions. Since you do not know if he is wrong, you should not condemn his views.
In reality Bmore, if we cannot know the truth, then why on earth should anyone follow Jesus? How can we make any moral discernment? What if John Doe comes and says to you that he enjoys eating babies alive? Will you say, "Well, since I cannot know for certain you are wrong, I will not condemn you"?
A final question. You say you are Catholic and accept the RCC view on the Eucharist, why then do you reject the RCC view on homosexuality? This baffles me, considering the RCC claims infallibility. If you are a Catholic, then you believe the Catholic church is infallible, if the RCC is infallible then acting on homosexuality is wrong.
I would agree with DanPaul.. The orientation while devaint, (by definition) is not in and of itself "neccessarily" a sin...although I would qualify my statement by indicating there is a difference between some unwillful sense of thought patterns versus lusting about and masterbating over fantasies of such nature. However, the acting out on an intentional pattern of thought is sinful.
I think that anyone struggling to maintain sexual purity inspite of their desires is a testimony to seeking holiness.
I am a 46yo widow, and have a female partner. I have been abstinent for years inspite of my really strong desire to act out.... I believe Gods ways are the best ways.. and it is difficult , but God provides the grace.
Daniel Paul
I asked irenaeus, a devout Catholic, what the RCC's position was on the issues pertaining to homosexuality on the "Discussion on Religion, Homosexuality..." article. Here is what he told me:
"The Catholic Church teaches that homosexuality, if by this term we mean the attraction to the same sex, is in itself not sinful; it is however a disordered disposition or orientation (analogous to alcoholism or kleptomania). Homosexual acts, however, are gravely depraved and sinful. In other words, the tendency or disposition is in itself not necessarily sinful, but acting out on the tendency or disposition is. The Catholic Church has been unequivocal in this. So Bmore needs to be clear when stating what the Church actually teaches, because the Church certainly does not teach that homosexual acts are morally licit, and in fact, has said that they are intrinsically wrong and under no circumstance can they be approved."
Just FYI, I wasn't aware the Catholic faith allowed homosexuality. I thought the Pope spoke very clearly about that. When did that change?
>Daniel Paul: I don't believe I equated gay with disabled - that doesn't sound like my style at all. I >have equated equality for gay folks with civil rights for black folks.
It was a two person post. The first paragraph was to you. The rest was for Bmore. Sorry for the confusion.
>As for getting the Word wrong, people got it wrong 150 years ago when they thought the >Bible legitimized slavery, 50 years ago when they thought the Bible forbid inter-racial marriage >and they are getting it wrong now on the issue of homosexuality.
Actually, King James who had the Bible translated wanted to have his own Bible because he wanted to divorce his wife and he was supposedly gay himself. The Bible is clear on slavery. The gospel says Christians are owned by the Lord. They are bond slaves. You cannot serve two masers. Therefore, for a Christian to 'own' another 'Christian' as a slave just doesn't work from a Biblical point of view.
I live in Bob Jones neck of the woods and I still haven't heard any Biblical basis for not allowing inter-racial dating for Christians.
The Bible is also clear about homosexuallity when it talks about men's lusts burning towards one another and receiving in their body. Not to mention the other Biblical positions I have put up in other posts about marriage between a man and woman being an example of the relationship of Christ and the church. This is why satan wants to destroy healthy marriage between a man and woman. It devalues the example of Christ and the church in the Bible.
It's not about man being right or wrong. It's about accepting what God says is right or wrong and not trying to find someway around it.
God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam. When Adam awoke, he saw a woman, his wife, his helpmate. If a man awakes and sees a man as his helpmate, then sadly, that man has not awakened in God. He still sleeps in his sins and trespasses.
Be not deceived, fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God (1Co 6:9, 10). Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober (1Th 5:6).
When I voice an opinion on Scripture, which is also well founded, you try to discredit my sources and call me a sinner.
Well founded? Okay cite the bible passages which explicitly condone and approver of homosexual behavior and I will do the same showing Scripture speaks against it.
YOu throw out your opinion without offering proofs. .. and then when I post facts from the CDC and DOJ you delete them... SHOW YOUR PROOFS
How is it OK for you to differ from a major Christian religion, but not for me? You say you have the Truth, I say I do, and honestly, the only way we will figure it out is to follow Christ in the way we believe to be right, and someday we will find out. Truth is, neither of us know we will truly inherit the kingdom of God until we get there,
Wrong, the only way to follow Christ is the way HE says we are to follow him. YOu claim to be a baoptized Christian? The proof of it is having died to your old self... and put on the new nature.
This is what I mean. I truly believe you have no clue about Biblical truth or you refuse to accept those parts you disagree with. YOu dont believe that the Bible is Gods infallible and inerrant Word. from that perspective you choose truth like ordering from a menu. There is no having a discussion with someone who approaches Scripture with a heart like that. YOu call Christ a liar for JOhn 1 says Gods Word was in teh beginning and GOd was the Word and the Word became flesh and walked among us...
I never condemned you.. You are so emotionally sensitive about anything that speaks against your rebellious heart that you refuse to hear the truth.
Jar, you are not the Christian community. I am a Catholic, and just because my views are different than yours does not mean I am not a Christian or that I am attacking Christians. Your views differ from mine in that "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you shall not have life within you." You choose to interpret the Scripture differently from Catholicism, the original founders of Christ's church, yet you find that to be OK. When I voice an opinion on Scripture, which is also well founded, you try to discredit my sources and call me a sinner. How is it OK for you to differ from a major Christian religion, but not for me? You say you have the Truth, I say I do, and honestly, the only way we will figure it out is to follow Christ in the way we believe to be right, and someday we will find out. Truth is, neither of us know we will truly inherit the kingdom of God until we get there, so stop trying to condemn me and my beliefs and I will not condemn yours.
Someday I wish somebody would give me a clear explanation as to why a website specifically designed for the christian comminuty with a Christian perspective would attract those hostile to Christianity both in belief and conduct to such a sight and then fell the right to create chaos on the site? There are plenty of sites like ICQ and Yahoo which have chat centers designed specifically for the things you believe with others who share your belief.
BaltTeacher: Scripture is not a game. Like I said, you have come to this site to not only demand justification but to try to ridicule the Word of God. From this point I have nothing further to dialogue with you. May God have mercy on your soul.
“Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let EVERY man have his own wife, and let EVERY woman have her own husband” (1Co 7:1, 2).
The word of God clearly instructs man that there are only two ways to avoid fornication:
1. Touch not a woman
or
2. Have a wife (woman)
Such guidance is for EVERY man. Scripture does not instruct some men to have a wife and some men to have a husband or male partner to avoid fornication.
Be not deceived, fornicators shall not inherit the kingdom of God (1Co 6:9, 10).
The deeper I look into scripture, the more I see it says nothing about homosexuality in its ORIGINAL form. See how we can both play the same games?
For BalmTeacher: Wrong.. the Catholic Church under Constantine rewrote the Bible in Latin and changed the original Greek (Koine Greeek) in which it was written. Luther and many other Protestants challanged the Church by using the Bible. I was A Roman Cath fo 37 years of my life.. The deeper I reached into Scripture the more convinced I was that the Catholic Institution teaches heresies.. and they do.
Lesson on Sin: All of us have impure thoughts. Christ said that to even look at woman with lust in our hearts is to commit adultery. SO alying that thought to a gay person.. are you saying that it doesnt count? That God's moral code is only for the heterosexual community? I am to love the sinner and hate the sin.. We can claim Christ and His gift of grace, but Christ said.. in true spiritual baptism we die to our old selves and put on the new man..NOw I have answered your question so now answer mine:
Are you saying that to have sex out of marriage is not sinful in God's eyes?
Are you saying that a person who has been TRULY baptized into Christ is incapable of being transformed and unable to put off his old ways as Christ commands?
My point in my statement, Jar, was that Catholicism makes the Eucharist a fundamental Truth of the faith in following Jesus. All other Christian churches, at some point, branched off Catholicism and changed that Truth, so much so that you outright deny it. That being said, you have a different interpretation of what Christ said. I do the same. I'll someday see you in Heaven, yet that seems to annoy you.
Jar said: "Baltimore you are an angry bitter young man who will not be content until the world accepts your behavior because you would rather be right than contrite."
Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
jar: So you think a gay person or one that is supportive of gays cannot be Christian?
Daniel Paul: I don't believe I equated gay with disabled - that doesn't sound like my style at all. I have equated equality for gay folks with civil rights for black folks.
As for getting the Word wrong, people got it wrong 150 years ago when they thought the Bible legitimized slavery, 50 years ago when they thought the Bible forbid inter-racial marriage and they are getting it wrong now on the issue of homosexuality.
the Eucharist... you just keep at it don't you? Okay Bible lesson time. Christ was not speaking literarily..for if He was then He would have been committing cannablism. Christ came to fulfill the law not do away with it. The O.T. forbid the consumption of human flesh. The Catholic Church... in the mass.. (a mass is a funeral rite) continues to reinstitute the sacrifice of Christ.. Scripture says Christ's sacrifice was done once for all man for the remission of sin. He said, "for oft as you do this do it in remembrance of me". Every outward human act in the form of what we term a "scarament" is a symbolic act. No human act confers any such grace. For instance, true baptism is not the immeersion in water. You can be dunked as many times as you want, but Christ explained true baptism, true conversion is the circumcision of the heart.
Baltimore you are an angry bitter young man who will not be content until the world accepts your behavior because you would rather be right than contrite.
It's amazing how on sites like this the blog becomes about the antagonists who visit this site. It never fails. it doesnt matter what Christian site... every type of non Christian, atheist and gaytheist will log on and attack the Body of Christ
Jesus also says, "Unless you eat my body and drink my blood, you shall not have life within you." Catholicism, the original followers of Christ, have determined that to mean the most Holy Eucharist. If you don't go to a Catholic Mass, you don't get Communion, and therefore are not truly participating in the life of Christ. Choosing not to go to Mass is a pretty heavy wager as well, is it not?
ifeelfine72, I did admonish him in the last paragraph. He (and others) need to realize that but for the grace of God go I. Although I see a 'young' spirit in jar1961, I'm also not willing to dismiss what he is saying for the way he is saying it. There is truth that pursuit of Jesus causes the casting off of the things that displease Him. I'm sure 'jar' is a passionate believer as it comes out that way in his posts. In time that 'hot' metal will be shaped and tempered as the Lord does with all of us!
As for Bmore and his statements about disabilities. I work with disabled children as a volunteer lay advocate. The goal is to help them overcome those disabilities to live as normal a life as possible. It's interesting that you equate being gay with being disabled. I am yet to meet a gay person who did not come from a codependent upbringing. People are not born gay. That's just propaganda. The 'study' used to 'prove' that violated most every rule of controlled study. They set out to prove people were born gay and did whatever it took to skew the results. It's a matter of public record now.
Not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter into the kindom of heaven. If you want to believe you can get into heaven being gay that's quite a heavy wager in light of what the Bible says. On that day the Lord will make it perfectly clear to you if you are right or not. I prefer to take His word for what I believe and not try to justify what I want with His word (Bible). The Bible does speak of ignoring the truth so long that your conscience doesn't work right anymore. I see it all the time in the business world. I also see it from those who are gay.
You are correct. God doesn't make mistakes...we do. We don't want to accept who God made us to be which is clear in His word (homosexuality is only one issue under that umbrella). Only those who die to self and live for Christ are Christian and so says the Bible. I have asked for your scriptural basis for you claims and you provide none because there is none. God hates adultery and homosexuality because they go against His stated design. He wants people to live by His design and not ours.
jar - There is clearly a lot of hate in your heart. Repent. Not that it is any of your business but I am neither gay nor atheist.
Christians admonish Christians when we are not living in truth or sharing the Gospel Truth in an accurate way. Neither of these is applicable.... Why is it atheists and gaytheists always try to change the subject???
Daniel Paul: Why did you not admonish jar1961?
Wow, you guys have been busy. There is quite a bit of hate...on both sides. It is obvious from many of your statements Bmore that you have great hate for those who hate your life style. If you truely had the Holy Spirit in your life you would love those who hate you. This is not present in your posts. Also, be it homosexuality, greed, lust or anything else, the Holy Spirit does not change His mind. Under grace there is still a right and wrong.
As a Christian it is no longer I who live but Christ who lives in me. Therefore, stepping on people to make a buck is just as wrong as homosexuality from a Biblical perspective. I am responsible for my choices. I am responsible for obedience to the Bible. I am responsible for "rightly dividing the word of truth".
All of you posts are defending why you can do what you want and void of any Biblical support. Neither of us are less valuable than the other. God expects both of us to live the life Christ laid down at the cross and lot follow the lusts of the flesh. Paul wrote in 1 Cor that if you have a problem in the area of lust that you should marry. He defined marriage in that passage. To accept ANY other definition is Biblically wrong (homosexuality, living together, etc.).
You are Biblically free to believe what you want. However, all of us will be responsible for how we 'interperated' scripture and we will have all eternity to exist with our choices. Quit fighting man on this issue and learn what He who will judge us thinks about it.
As for some of the rest of you... when you correct someone you need to remember that it is only the grace through Jesus that has kept you from being the one being corrected! Yep, Billy Graham once said the only difference between him and Charlie Manson was the grace of God.
I have the Holy Spirit in my heart. You wouldn't ask someone born with a disability to stop being disabled, so don't ask someone born gay to stop being gay. God made me in his image and likeness, and God makes no mistakes. Let the editorial board see that I have deleted your posts: they were off topic and aimed directly at me to cause issues, so I had perfect right based on their terms of service. God Bless!
Finally let me leave you with this..... The PROOF of the PRESENCE of the HOLY SPIRIT in our hearts is the struggle AGAINST sin... not the pursuit of it...or justification of it. So while you meditate on everything here... remember that... if you are claiming that you have been gay since birth then let me remind you we are called in baptism to put off the old man.....
FYI.. Ive contacted the editorial board about your conduct here.....
BMORE The same reason you flag is the same reason you left the church.... Enjoy your pity party and fear of the truth.... You can't serve God and your carnal desires. As I am sure many before me have.. I will also pray for your heart that you may repent and not perish
You just proved my point buddy! You know nothing about my experience or how people in the church have treated me. What you are doing most certainly does not come a place of love, it comes from a place of arrogance that you know more than I do and you are hell bent on trying to step above me. Jesus loves me in a way you could never imagine or even come close to imitating. Post your hateful (and wrong) facts, try to slander me and my community, but I love people and know what truth is. You can think and say what you want, ultimately God knows what is in my heart, I pray and listen daily, and you are doing nothing worth my time. Peace, I hope you'll someday realize the gravity of your hate and its effects on those around you, both knowingly and unknowingly.
Why are so afraid of the Crime Report? This blog does not belong to you and you are not the censor of what is appropriate and what is not...If you persist I will report you to the moderator....
Right.. the whole church is wrong and you are right? The whole church hates you and your boyfriend... I'll bet they all ministered in love to you for a long time despite your lifestyle and when you realized they loved you in spite of your sin and still expected you to repent.. you chose acting out your gay behavior over submitting to Christ's call to live in truth
funny, you claim I don't know you, yet you pretend to know me. You can say nothing of my relationship with God, yet you must feel so superior because you are taking every opportunity possible to paint me as some ungodly hooker who couldn't be responsible if my life depended on it. Fact of the matter is, science has proven there isn't a choice in sexual orientation. The Bible is grey on many areas, so I choose to integrate the two.
It's not about Christ's love for you...It is about His call for all of us to submit and obey... to die to self, to die to the carnal heart...You don't know me from a hole in the wall.... or my walk or my struggle....
YOu can justify all you want about the cause of being gay.. what you cant dispute or reconcile is that the sex you are having is outside the bounds of marriage.. and marriage is a divine institute given by God alone and His definition of marriage. Im 46 am widowed. I came to Christ in 1994. Before that I slept with anything on 2 legs and said yes.. I finally got that you cant choose both your unbiblical pleasures and God's desirte for a pure and joy filled life... YOu will come to hate one and love the other.. Your choice is a\obvious.
jar, you are wrong. We leave because people like you make us feel unwelcome, but clearly you know myself better than I do, so I'll just stop talking because you're not worth my time.
Gay people leave the church because they prefer their lifestyle over living in submission the to Gospel Truths..... But then again so do adulterers in the chruch and those who persist in pre-marital sexual relationships...
I will absolutely flag it, you are not a Christian as all you try to do is hurt someone else. No, I am not more likely to get HIV because I am always safe, and I am in a committed relationship, which you know nothing about, so don't pretend you do. Jesus loves me as I am, and you have absolutely no right to tell me otherwise, seeing as you are pretty far from perfect yourself. You are absolutely out to pick on me. Shame on you dude, you are the reason so many gay people leave the church!
The Day of Silence is in no way forced on children, stop spreading lies that you clearly know nothing about! If you don't want to take a card, you don't have to. Gays are one of the most targeted yet least represented minority groups in schools, so they need a day to protest the fact that all too often, administrations look the other way because they don't know how to deal with the issues. If other groups are feeling they are being bullied, organize a day to bring awareness, I see nothing wrong with that! It isn't encouraging, its opening our children's eyes to the world around them and they are smart enough to decide what they want to believe in.
Ok, there is a different thing between teaching tolerance and encouragement. They are ENCOURAGING homosexuality. Besides, you could say it is violating the constitution because it is still forcing opinion on the children. Secular doesn't just mean separation of religion and state, it should mean NOT OPINIONATED OR BIASED. If you want to discourage bullying, you discourage bullying of ALL groups at the very least. They are focusing on homosexuals. If they are teaching that homosexuality is "ok" then they should teach that christianity and islam and judaism is ok. And tighten up on 0 tolerance bullying rules. Not encourage homosexuality. This moment of silence is being forced on the children... If they won't have a prayer then they CERTAINLY shouldn't have a moment of silence for homosexuals. REALLY.
Jar, your facts and figures are horrifically off balance and I cannot imagine the biased sources you get them from. Only 1 in 167 woman are abused....ONLY?!?!?! That's a pretty high number my friend, and if you knew anything about stats, you'd know those are off because of the women who never came forward. Gay relationships do not have a higher rate of abuse, it is actually equal across sexual orientations, I would be happy to find that study if need be. Also, Exodus has a high rate of success immediately, but check back into their figures for the amount of suicides tied to it and the amount of people who come out again saying they had themselves completely fooled. Exodus is astronomically horrible at what they do, because sexual orientation has been associated with PRENATAL factors. Your method of researching is biased...sorry to tell you.
Merkin,
You stated :
=====================================
jar1961,
I would rather save lives than punish "sins."
What's ironic is I'm an atheist, and yet my priorities are more in line with the teachings of Jesus than yours.
====================================
Ummm, Jar1961 is correct and is in line with the gospel. If you know the Lords bible that you would hav also known that:
1) He finds no pleaser in seeing the destruction of the wicked
2) He wishes to see all come to repentants and accept him as Lord
3) All who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved
Jesus much rather save the sinner and teach him the straight and narrow path then to send him to hell.
So in short Merkin, no your priorities are not in line with our Lord and Savior.
ATHEISM: Most pro homosexual and abortion supporters are atheists. It's sad. You are your own god. You live in a relative mindset... so no need to comment any further .. you will not let the facts get int he way of your truths... We need not discuss anything any further.
jar1961,
I would rather save lives than punish "sins."
What's ironic is I'm an atheist, and yet my priorities are more in line with the teachings of Jesus than yours.
IFEELFINE:
Well science would disagree with you. There is no genetic predispositon for homosexuality. People of your perspective never let the facts get in the way of your truths. Science has spent 20 years looking for a genetic marker... even with the genome they havent been able to.
HOmosexuality has traditionally been consider a mental condition until circa 1972. Today the eviidence is even more resounding... it is environmental. The success rate of programs like EXODUS demonstrate everyday the homosexuality is reversible and is environmentally based.
For MERKIN: You're foolish and belligerent attitude is not worth responding too. President Bush has done more for the fight against AIDS then any president in modern history. YOu read what you want into my statements instead of what I truly said. Here are the 2 main causes for the AIDS viruses which explains totally the cause of the epidemic:
1. Sex outside the confines of marriage
2. Use of I.V. drugs.
If you stop both practices the disease disappears.
God says, sex is meant for husband and wife.
So are you saying that you would insist on supporting behaviors that will kill people and consider that more compassionate than a Christian who is passionate about the beauty of life, love and marriage and would do everything to teach people about what brings true healthy living/
jar1961: They didn't choose to be gay anymore than you chose to be straight (assuming you are).
jar1961: So you chose to be straight (assuming you are)? You find both men and women attractive and appealing but chose to be straight? Is that what you are trying to have us believe? Your ignorance, prejudice and hatred is astounding.
jar1961,
You'd rather sit back and watch millions of men, women, and children die from AIDS than shell out a few pennies a month so that these people might have a chance? What a thoughtful Christian you are. Jesus would be proud.
To pretend that gay families don't exist is absurd. To be more concerned about recruiting students into the anti-gay lifestyle than preventing students from being harrassed, bullied, attacked and murdered is sad and cruel. Recently, in Oxnard, California, a 15-year-old student was shot in the head in school. The reason was because he was gay. Do anti-gay activists consider muder to be a "family value?" It would seem that as long as the murdered student is gay, it doesn't matter. What if a "Christian" student had been shot in the head in school? These pro-homophobic legal groups would be screaming to high Heaven for protective measures to be implemented.
FOR BLUe: And assuming that everything I said below is false, then if you believe in evolution and that gays are genetically disposed then nature would dictate under the theory of the survival of the species that there can only be one outcome for the deviant portion of the species.... so the proper perspective from a naturalist Darwin position was that the deviant genetic population within the norm can only have one outcome and that outcome is consistent with the moral beliefs of the majority.
For BLUE:: "Sadly, people are too caught up in teaching their children hatred and condemnation of others rather than acceptance and understanding. People who are protesting this cirriculum, in my opinion, are no different than the people who protested against integreated schools in the south".
YOur opinion is a reflection of willful ignorance and deception. The gay community tries that line in every arguement. So let's see:
A man is born without choice of race creed or color. None of these is behavior based. The U.S. COnstitution makes no provision anywhere at any time for protection of rights based on behavior. Gays wnat to try to gain the syjpathy of people of color by aligning themseves with something a person is born with.
And before you go spotuing another lie.. let's get another thing straight... The very people who discovered the genome unequivocally have stated there is no genetic determinate for homosexual behavior. Science's efforts ot track a genetic predisposition for homosexual conduct is proving in each hypothesis that there is none.
For Merkin:
" What's disgusting is your pathological obsession with what other people do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Get a life ".
Here are the problems with your response to my statement:
1. I agree.. What people do in their bedrooms is no ones business so keep it out of the classrooms. It becomes my business when the gay community tries shoving their practices down my children's throat.
2. It becomes my business when it affects my tax dollars for AIDS research, medical care and rising cost of health benefits because of the high risks associated with homosexual behavior. When my insurance rates in the work place are adjusted because there are gay employees with high risk behaviors it becomes my business because it hits me personally in my pocket.
3. It becomes my business when people try to become my childs parent and shove BEHAVIOR based values down my childs throat that I dont agree with.,
jar1961,
What's disgusting is your pathological obsession with what other people do in the privacy of their bedrooms. Get a life.
Spot on Blue.
Jar1961 - we get it already, you find homosexuality disgusting - you shouldn't be so proud of that.
As long as my tax dollars are being used to fund the public school system I will fight for what is moral and straight.
Why don't we protest by taking our children out of the public schools?
Public Schools Part 1: The Glory of God
http://polemos.net/Articles/Public%20Schools%20and%20the%20Glory%20of%20God.html
Public Schools Part 2: Epistemology
http://polemos.net/Articles/Public%20Schools%20Part%202%20Epistemology.html
Public Schools Part 3: Socialization: Classmates
http://polemos.net/Articles/Public%20Schools%20Part%203%20Socialization%20Classmates.html
Public Schools Quotes
http://polemos.net/Quotes%20Public%20Schools.html
Sadly, people are too caught up in teaching their children hatred and condemnation of others rather than acceptance and understanding. People who are protesting this cirriculum, in my opinion, are no different than the people who protested against integreated schools in the south.