Read the book of Job and then you will have a better grasp. Just because you are a good church goer or involved in 100 mionistries and obey all of God's commands the best way possible doesnt automatcally shield you from hard times, and the likewise, jsut becasue you are a staunch pagan doesnt mean you autmatically will have hard times either. What it boils down to is trusting in God in any situation, we all know you cant earn you way into heaven because we could never do enough good things. Stop correlating having an easier life with being Chrsitian because it isnt easier, look at all the muslims that are converting to christianity, they are dying for the faith not getting a bigger paycheck or "better" life. We will be persecuted by the pagan world if we truley follow Jesus, plain and simple. Trust in God in the good and the BAD times and he will pull you through them. Abandoning your faith on account of Bad times is the equivalent of "When the going gets tough, the tough become weak and spineless and quit becuase it isnt easy anymore so were they ever tough to begin with?" or something close to that. The worst thing that can be said about a Christian is that they cant tell the difference btwn them and the secular world. If you are a Christian and you fit in, you may need to question if you are taking your faith seriously or if you are just pretending. Take joy in your suffering and praise God!

Howard Dean left the church because they reffused a bike path over church property, but get real, he is a left wing politician, so why should we care who stays or leaves? I would rather be in a company of believers than scoffers.

Now there's a balance to look at! The Bible says a man is worth his wage but it doesn't talk about 2 or 3 persons wages!

On the one hand, I know of a business fellow who gives 90% of his personal income to mission type work. He's still quite rich as God has blessed his hearts commitment. Still, Jesus had no home of His own. Paul accepted gifts from some and rejected from others depending on the hearts of the people. By world standards our homeless people here in the USA live better than most people in 3rd world countries.

If I have what I need I will be content. I have had little and plenty. God is still faithful. Man looks at the outward appearance but God looks on the heart. I feel pity for those who have the big house but their hearts are run down, cold and empty.

As for some of these "send me money" people...they have their reward.

It would be great if we could if we could limit the posts directing people to external links.

I was struck by the author's phrase she felt God was pounding on her. This is the point where a person will make a real decision for Christ. The issues will vary, but we will all hit that wall at some point in our lives. Unfortunately, many Christians spend their entire Christian lives trying to avoid this and even see it is the church's duty to help protect them from ever having to face any crisis. We are not unlike the Israelites who complained and longed to return to slavery in Egypt and fought being taken in to the wilderness to be tested and to learn how to trust. I have a feeling this is why many men fail to connect with the church. They long to be set free and rightly sense the church will not help them in crossing the Jordan.

I believe outside of the "holier than thou" Christians turning people off to Christianity, we are living in an age of where nobody wants to get their feelings hurt with straight biblical teachings. Everything is about feeling good.

"Most of the time, Christians leave because of a "wounded" experience. They either deliberately walk away due to questions and doubts that go unanswered or they feel that God has walked away or "disappeared," observed Sanford"

I'm honestly not sure that I would place the focus on "wounded experiences". I would be more inclined to believe that the church simply lacks the experiencing of God.

The Holy Spirit tends to work "outside the box", outside of the routine.
I believe they call it not being Religious.

to daniel paul
'the immature who desire big house, nice cars & condos'... what about pastors, who are the messengers of god, point to sin, then blames those who are suffering on sin. where do believers get these 'immature & childish' teachings? pastors & televangelist. also, pastors, televangelist' average salary is $7800/ month with health benefits, nice cars & nice houses.

'Most of the time christians leave because of a wounded experience. they walk out bec of questions go unanswered... '
yes that is true. and what is worst, instead of the 'questions being answered' self righteous, arrogant christians ( especially pastors) give a 'snake when asking for a fish', they also add weight on people's shoulders, blame everything for the cause of suffering on sin & the same believers who cast the first stone will be first people who break the rules.

The other Sunday our Pastor did and alter call. We don't do the alter call every Sunday thing that is so 'normal' here in the south. He got several emails that week asking him to do another one. These emails came from people who hesitated and missed the chance to go down. The next sermon was about how you don't need to have an alter call in a church to become a Christian. The megachurch attracts what are called 'seekers' who are those wanting to learn more about Christianity.

And, gig, you're right about the membership mentality. Churches here boast their membership numbers which include those in the graveyard! To be a member of our church you have to go through a 2 hour class on what being a member of a church is (starting with being saved). Also, members have to serve somewhere in the church and be part of a small group or ministry. In short, members do the work of the ministry. Our membership is about half of our weekly attendance and it has to be renewed each year as a committment to the church. Our small groups are where the connection takes place.

Even still, we have the immature who have desires for the big house, nice car and condo. When you get right down to it, the smaller churches here are not really all that different. They're just more 'spiritual' about their immaturity. The megachurch is just a more concentrated version of what I have seen in the smaller churches for decades.

A link to this article has been posted on the website GoodNewsNow.com

To Curiousbonefish: I'm sorry I couldn't respond to your note sooner. Just a little info for you...like the Apostle Paul, I too long to join the Lord Jesus in the "fellowship of suffering." Do you know what that means? Paul (and all other true believers) had a lifestyle of sharing the Gospel. The suffering he referred to was the extreme persecution because He preached Jesus and Him crucified. Paul understood that when the truth is shared with the object of converting people to faith in Jesus, most will react somewhat violently...even with physical violence against one who is attempting to change their lifestyles. ANY other suffering other than as a direct result of persecution for the faith is not God-generated. We are saved for one reason alone...to glorify the name of our Savior and Lord, Jesus. When we unashamedly speak His name or minister in His name in an attempt to convert souls, we WILL be persecuted. We must, however, always remember...it is not WE who are being persecuted, but the name of Jesus. It is not WE who are being laughed at, physically bruised, or fired from a job...it is the Lord Himself. We are not our own, but have been bought by a price - the blood of the Lamb of God. It is not WE who live, but Christ lives in us. Therefore, all of our "rights" have been surrendered so that we are now full-time servants of the Most High God. If you try serving the Lord and at the same time holding on to your precious rights, you will not be a happy servant. But if you surrender everything to the Lordship of the only One who can give you eternal life, you will know the JOY OF THE LORD in all of life's circumstances. His grace will be suffiscient to ease all of your suffering. If your suffering, however, is due to any other reason than the spread of the Gospel or attempts at the discipling of believers, The Lord will minister to you through His church if you call for prayer. I just wanted you to know the difference between suffering for righteousness sake (the spread of the Gospel) and suffering for any other reasons. Many church members consider personal setbacks and other non-spiritual related issues as "suffering for Jesus." When you suffer for Jesus, it is always the result of being in the direct battle with Satan over the souls of men. May God equip you and use you powerfully in that on-going battle until He comes again for His Church.

rosalieartist I don't know the reason behind you losing your faith. The reasons one leaves the Christian belief is many and varied. Mostly it seems it is becasue someone who says they are of Christ acts in such a way that they hurt one such as youself. Maybe it is because nonbelievesr seem to have all the answer. Maybe it is becasue God seems so distance and you can't hear Him, I don't know. I want you to know I believe God is calling you back to Him. You are like the lost sheep of the 99 and He His calling out to you. Jesus says to Seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be added on to you. The evidence for a Creator God and the death and resurrection of His Son is overwhelming if one cares to look and try and understand. books like "I Don't have enough Faith to be an Atheist" by N.Geisler and F.Turek or Lee Strobles books Case for Christ, Case for Faith, Josh Mcdowells "evidence that demands a verdict. are just a few. A series of 1 hour studies called the Truth Project out of Focus on the Family is another good resource to check out. Or pray and read the Gospel of John, 1st,2nd,and 3rd John.
let Gods Spirit minister to you through His word. He loves you more then you will ever know this side of eternal life. He sent His Son to die for you as well as all people. I will be praying for you. Gods Blessing In Christ Tom

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POSTSCRIPT:

Jesus as Social Worker or as Savior..."
http://jesusassocialworker.blogspot.com/


- Forwarded Message -

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Christianity is in decline because of the Left's
MARXIST//SOCIALIST//COMMUNIST//FEMINIST
revolution begun in the 1960s.

Read my essays for
a better understanding :

Liberals' Cult of Non-Judgmentalism // The Unholy Alliance
http://foundersamerica68.blogspot.com/

Rush Limbaugh is a Kook
http://rushlimbaughisakook.blogspot.com/

Underlying Psychology of Politics
http://underlyingpsychologyofpolitics.blogspot.com/

Kids' Cult of Vicarious Permission
http://foundersamerica75.blogspot.com/

Censorship
http://foundersamerica67.blogspot.com/

Contact: Deacon Elurby at founders_america@hotmail.com



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#######

#######
#######


Christianity is in decline because of the Left's
MARXIST//SOCIALIST//COMMUNIST//FEMINIST
revolution begun in the 1960s.

Read my essays for
a better understanding :

Liberals' Cult of Non-Judgmentalism // The Unholy Alliance
http://foundersamerica68.blogspot.com/

Rush Limbaugh is a Kook
http://rushlimbaughisakook.blogspot.com/

Underlying Psychology of Politics
http://underlyingpsychologyofpolitics.blogspot.com/

Kids Cult of Vicarious Permission
http://foundersamerica75.blogspot.com/

Censorship
http://foundersamerica67.blogspot.com/

Contact: Deacon Elurby at founders_america@hotmail.com


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#######

I think there are many reasons for the loss of interest in the Christianity, but in my opinion, the biggest is the pull of the secular world we live in, with its interest in luring young children into shallow, pornographic, violent, self-centered, meaningless toys, games, movies, posters, clothing, etc. Meanwhile, many parents lose the battle by the time their "Christian" children become teenagers and are lost to the world. The answer isn't for churches to become entertainment centers, to "attract" people. The answer is for us to pray for God to touch the hearts of every person, so that they will stop turning to secular "solutions" and open up the Bible to explore God's Word and find the real solution to their life problems - and then it isn't so much which church you find because you can be the catalyst that changes a dull church once your own heart is on fire with faith and love for the Lord. But be bold about sharing your faith, even at work. We need to keep "lighting the fire". I personally don't allow politics to dictate what I can and can't say or do with my faith. I'm always respectful of others' rights, anyway. I'm called to share the Gospel. That's what will stop the Christianity from dwindling. Real people, one by one, receiving the seed of faith.

I think the danger of mega churches, is that by virtue of their size it destroys intimacy... We are created for intimacy and Scripture says there is a way that seems right unto man but whos path leads to death... Mega Churches often preach "Christian-lite".... Joel Olsteen is a perfect example

I think the devil is having a great time deceiving people into thinking that they have to be a member of a church to maintain their salvation. God's people are saved by HIM and our allegiance is to Him. Churches offer religious experiences, not spiritual ones. The Bride of Christ is another story. That Body will be spotless and untainted by the many forms of false teachings and salvation by works that every church in the world promotes at some level.

Bingo!!! Actually, I am a member of a megachurch. We have about 7000 people. Most of them have been burned in other churches. One of the major concerns is if people are actually saved? Do they have a correct understanding of the gospel? Is church just some place to go on Sunday and do the "church" thing or is a place where God's people gather to worship, encourage and learn?

I do lay ministry at this church. The pastor and I are on the same page. I don't exactly look like the pastor type and work with the 'outer church' made up of those who are looking for answers without getting burned again.

Believe me folks, the megachurch like ours and many others fully realize the problems with such a large church. Why are the megachurches growing so much? It creates an environment where people who want to heal can heal in Gods time and have the support they need. The problem, contrary to STEVEs post isn't a lack of called ministers in the pulpit. It's a lack of called ministers among the people.

As for "called ministers", the Bible says Pastors are 'sent' along with several other positions in the faith. The 'acid test' is the fruits. If they sow and reap from the flesh ... or do they sow and reap from the Spirit?

One of the errors in today's Gospel presentation is the idea that God has a "WONDERFUL" plan for your life. Because the term "WONDERFUL" is ambiguous it can start Christians off on the wrong footing in that from the very beginning they can develop unreasonable expectations of God. These unreasonable expectations potentially lead to disillusionment. Too many pastors want to be people pleasers which is demonstrated in their sermons nurturing ldealism in their hearers. Leaders need to stop making positivity the final filter for what should be said and instead should preach the plain truth. It is better to emphasize the down side of living for Christ so that when the up side is experienced the Christian is pleasantly surprised than to emphasize the up side which when the down size comes can lead to disillusionment and experiencing a loss of faith. We must be clear on what the object of our faith is. It is on God and His Word not on unreasonable expectations or catchy religious cliches from the Health and Wealth proponents.

Church leaders just don't get it. Great big mega-churches are growing, but growing with people, who are probably not even Christian. There is a Political Correctness, which reveals that the church has escaped reality. Then the voices are limited to one to two pastors who control what is said. Just as the reformers were killed, burnt at the stake and persecuted, so any voice for God that is not according to the pastors agenda, is prohibited. Who would want to join a cult like this? Only the wilfully blind. To a degree, the greatest favor the mega-church pastors could do the country is to stand up before the congregation and say, "While we are growing in numbers as a congregation, but we are not doing America any good. We ought to divide into groups of 100's, 250's and 500's and establish disciple-making churches, relating to one another groups in our respective communities! This building will be sold and is no longer available."

I can tell you now! No money hungry leader is going to do that! It has become more about self than the well being of all. People think they can survive in a political correct church, be accountable to no-one, and grow as a Christian. They cannot. True Christianity demands relationship,. We were created, not only to be dependent upon the Most High God, but also dependent upon the Christ within one another. Christians have made themselves dependent upon the 'pastor's word' for the week. Hence, they are limited by the leadership and they limit one another. Gifts and callings are sitting in these large mega-churches are lying dormant. All to the gratification of the mega-church pastor and the detriment of the nation.

It’s just going to get worse! The pastors are just giving the people exactly what they are wanting.