A cutting-edge church leader known for his innovative ideas on reaching a post-modern generation for Christ contends the reason why churches are declining in America is because they are self-centered.
Today's Christian News Online - The Christian Post
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. (JN 8:32)
CP HOME
> church > church growth
Cultural Architect: Why Churches are Declining in America
By
Michelle A. Vu
Christian Post Reporter
Tue, Jan. 15 2008 08:56 AM EST
[-] Text [+]
Prev1Next
Most Commented Articles
La. Governor Signs 'Science Education Act'
Obama Prying Loose Evangelicals from Republicans
Federal Marriage Amendment Re-introduced in Senate
Why I Thank God for Charles Darwin
Anglican Head Sees Risks in Conservative Proposals
PCUSA Assembly Approves Deleting Gay Clergy Ban
Arizona Puts Marriage Amendment on Ballot - Again
Featured Advertiser Links
Comments
Hi I'm Natan from Indonesia.
I feel sad abt this news whereas Christianity grows well in my Country altough there are so many barriers especially for license to build Church.
However I believe that only Jesus can revive.
Keep being optimistic, always pray, do your kindness and do not stop telling anyone abt Jesus.
God Bless U.
Lord Jesus please raise up more youth leaders who are dedicated living holy and who are passonate prayer warriors and Evangelists.
The Gospel of the Kingdom === >>
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
Lord Jesus please raise up more youth leaders who are dedicated living holy and who are passonate prayer warriors and Evangelists.
The Gospel of the Kingdom === >>
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
BobCu, since you had said you "threw it out", I was assuming you had not experienced the reality of God as so many of here have. When you say you "received the usual Christian indoctrination", what does that mean? That you were taken to church? Something else?
Surely you realize that 'telling the truth' about your experience is not 'the truth' of other people's experience - otherwise, there would be no Christians. We know that people have made decisions to follow the the Lord for the last 2,000 years, many have found Him to be good and trustworthy, and they would of course say that is the truth they have experienced.
Surely you know that Christians hear opposing viewpoints all the time - that's not anything new, and it certainly doesn't affect my faith or the faith of Christians I know. It does cause me to feel sad for people who are missing the joy and peace I experience each day.
maranatha7593: "you haven't experienced the Christian life"
I said this and maybe you missed it: "I threw out Christianity more than four decades ago."
I was a Christian and received the usual Christian indoctrination most American children are abused with.
"I hope you will cease showing such disrespect to Christians"
Since when is "telling the truth" the same as disrespecting Christians?
Should I muzzle myself so I don't hurt anyone's feelings? Are people's faith so weak they can't stand to hear an opposing viewpoint?
I just read over my comments and I can't find a thing I said that wasn't honest. Are you trying to censor me? Are you asking me to censor myself? I didn't serve in the US Army so there could be censorship in this country. I plan to say anything I want for the rest of my life, and I would defend anyone who wants to do the same thing, no matter how much I might disagree with them.
Correction (sure wish we could edit our messages):
"...that you haven't experienced the Christian life, so can't speak to that with any authority."
BobCu, I respect your right to hold your own opinion - no problem there. And I hope you will cease showing such disrespect to Christians, and will realize you don't understand where we are coming from - that you haven't experience the Christian life, so can't speak to that with any authority.
maranatha7593: "BobCu, are you a Christian?"
Please don't tell anyone but I'm an atheist. I threw out Christianity more than four decades ago. Since then, as I have learned more about science, my atheism has become stronger. I'm convinced the god of the gaps has run out of hiding places. Thanks to modern science, all gods have become obsolete. Science is the greatest threat there is to supernatural beliefs. I think Christians understand this threat. Some Christians accommodate new scientific discoveries. Some Christians fight science. For example look at the millions of evolution deniers in America. A growing number of Christians are figuring out god just gets in the way of understanding how the world really works, and they throw god and Jesus into the garbage.
BobCu, are you a Christian?
I expect the number of religious Americans to continue to decrease as science education improves. For example in Florida where I live public school science standards are being changed to stress evolution as one of the big ideas of science. The more young people learn about evolution, the more they realize religions are obsolete. The other problem for churches is they are a boring waste of time. Most young people have better things and more interesting things to do.
I absolutely agree. Without truth there is no foundation. It saddens me to know that so many sit in churches and the only truth many know is what they hear not what they learn for themselves.
Oglefam,
Well said; I agree with what you have just shared. It is true that many christians today do not study their bibles like they should. My point was; we should not sacrifice truth for the sake of unity.
I agree with what you say O4H, but Pauls statements were an attempt by him to stop the splintering that was taking place in his day which continues to this day. Mara's point of believers not studying today is correct. Far too many believers today depend on the person behind the pulpit to teach them the truth when in fact that person could be: "of Paul" or "of Apollos" or "of Cephas". Just because there are different parts of the body, does not mean the hand or foot is separated from the body, to do any good it has to be attached, which means it will function with the body. This was the point I was trying to get accross. I am no great Biblical scholar nor am I one who has to be right, I am a disciple(a person who is a pupil or an adherent of the doctrines of Christ) seeking his truth as I mature in him. Some days learn, some days I teach.
Churches are not well-represented in the meida. When you turn on the TV and see divisive, nit-picking, gay-bashing, types like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, Ted Haggard, and Pope Benedict, you don't exactly want to run out and join.
On the other hand, people who have been shown true kindness by people of faith are more likely to enter the fold and stay. The future is with is in a message of love, not condemnation.
I saw Jack Hayford on TV last night. He said that the weakest church in the world is the American church, and that the reason for that is because so few Christians in America have taken the time to read the Bible and learn the scriptures - therefore, he said the American church is in danger of falling for the spirit of Anti-Christ because of that. I have felt this for some time and was amazed to hear him say this. I truly believe that obedience to God's word in 1 Chronicles 7:14 is the only way we will see true revival, a true move of God's Spirit in our land. May God help us all to be humble and submissive to Him, fearing no one but Him.
Oglefam,
Let’s allow the scriptures to define true unity. . . . . John 17:21 says, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.”
However what is ignored by the ecumenists are the prerequisites that alone will provide unity.
Sanctify them through thy truth: they word is truth – John 17:17.
There are but two prerequisites to the uniting of the flock of Jesus: the first is TRUTH, and the second is SANCTIFICATION. It is plain from the words of Jesus that there is no sanctification aside from truth. With so much pluralism and eclecticism being promoted in the ecumenical movement there is not a sliver of hope that this movement can lead to TRUE unity.
Yet truth alone is not sufficient to bring unity. We may have an intellectual knowledge and acceptance of the truth, but unless in the power of the indwelling Jesus Christ we allow the truth to permeate every neuron of our mind and sinew of our body, we will not be agents of unity. Many see unity as a goal, an objective, or an aim, but that thought cannot be sustained. UNITY IS A RESULT. It is a natural consequence that binds together those who have been sanctified by the TRUTH.
All men and women on the planet, who permit the Holy Spirit to bring them to truth, and permit Christ to sanctify their hearts and lives without manipulation, will be united one with another. Unity brooks no consensus and no compromise. The very suggestion that powerful truths such as - salvation by faith alone, salvation through God’s grace alone, salvation in Christ alone, and the truth that is revealed in God’s word alone be put aside in quest for unity will be repugnant to all faithful Christians. Such a movement degrades Christianity into a pagan faith hostile to the true gospel.
1 Corinthians 1:10 & 11
“Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING, AND THAT THERE BE NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU, BUT THAT YOU BE PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER IN THE SAME MIND AND IN THE SAME JUDGMENT. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you.”
If the “church” can’t overcome this section of scripture, what does coffee in church matter? You want truth? (that is not said in a mean way, but serious) I submit the church as in America is not the body of Christ. For all the good it proclaims and does do, there is to be NO division. Is Christ divided? Is the Holy Spirit divided? Will the bride of Christ be divided? Certainly not. The bride of Christ will have NO spots. There are no exceptions. I believe Matthew 7:22 & 23 will be such a rude and horrifying awakening to many on the Day of Judgment. Somehow it almost seems to me that although God’s Word states these truths, we don’t believe God in his mercy and grace will act on them. It’s like we expect God to say, “I didn’t actually mean there were to be no divisions within my church, don’t worry about it.” Gods mercy and grace truly abound to man, at the same time he is just and what his Word says is the only way it is to be. I believe many believers are sensing a call to become as our Father is, holy, righteous and without sin. Will we slip from time to time, sure we will, does this mean we give ourselves a pass? No, nor will God. When his chosen people would fall into idol worship he allowed them to turn, when they did not he handed them to their enemies. Do we think God will turn the other way when we know what his Word says and ignore it? He will forgive and cleanse our sin but expects us to be stronger, by his strength, when we stand and continue to become as he is. The company I work for was purchased back in November by a much larger company within the same business sector. Yesterday we were informed that our location was closing and being consolidated to their already existing location in Mississippi. As I type this I have no concern for what tomorrow holds. If Paul can sit in prison and still cling to God, if Yeshua can cling to the Father without saying a word, who am I to worry about a job? Yet churches in America will not yield to the Holy Spirit and become one body. What shame.
Zealousness - an admirable quality if it is zealous for what is right and true and pure, but when it condemns the innocent and fights over non-issues it is not zealousness, but contentiousness. Standing for the Word of God is right, but not all that we seem to fight over is truly based on His Word. So what if churches have a cafe or serve coffee? Is it sin? Show me. Why fight over musical notes or style, or the building, or who is leading worship or teaching the truth if indeed he is? Yes, methods have gone through changes in the 38 years that I have known the Lord and been in churches, and yes, some of those methods seem to cater to a 'self-indulgence.' Would that we were perfect. The real test is not that we enjoy 'chuch' or not, whether we like styles or not, but are we truly desirous of making disciples who know the Lord and will do the same? I used to judge the "modern methodologies" and the "church growth" movement, but the bottom line is not the methods or numbers it is the fruit - have people truly been told the gospel? Do we really want people to hear? Let's stop worrying about coffee and popularity, as though something popular is wrong or coffee in church is 'sinful.' Why judge or condemn those who are doing something? Before the Master they stand or fall. Instead, let's quit that fight and fight to have the truth made known.
Jesus said that in the last days men would be lovers of themselves. He also asked the rhetorical queston, "When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on the earth?" What passes for "Christian" churches today is a slap in the face to those first Christians who were willing to die for the cause...not die TO the cause! Jesus said that those who follow after Him MUST tke up their cross. That means to be willing to die for His namesake. He told His disciples (and us, too) that people hated Him, and they will hate us also! They killed Him, and they will want to kill us also! We are strangers and aliens to the world. We are to be in the world, but not of the world! Churches who embrace the world's standards in the promotion of the Gospel are in league with Satan for the destruction of the Word of God. Jesus is either Lord of all , or not Lord AT ALL! The methods cannot define the message. A soul that is lost and dying doesn't care what the face of the doctor with the cure looks like. The remedy is JESUS and Him alone. When we decide to let the Word of God do the work that only He can do, more people will respond to the seriousness of their sins with a desire to have them erased by the blood of the Lamb of God. They won't need to be entertained in the process of their salvation! Paul told Timothy, "Just preach the Gospel!" Salvation comes by hearing the Word of God. THe Spirit of God is at work in the sharing of the Gospel unto the salvation of souls. Any other methodology carries no guarantee that true conversion has taken place. Jesus saves!!! Let that be the everyday phrase on the lips of every believer in every circumstance! Amen?
God bless everyone in this post. I think churches today are not to be called churches but better yet faith based businesses. Most churches are ran by a family or two and business strategies are being used instead of God's guidance. If you've been watching the news, churches are producing huge scandals, because God will shine some light into leaders true life and intentions sooner or later. The main problem starts with church leadership and their intentions. Many passionate and humble people are submitting their time, gifts, talents, money, etc., and are not being considered for anything else but the leaders own personal gain and vision. The church still has the "we want a king" syndrome from the time of Samuel and Saul. The sad thing is that we are still choosing wrong. I have been in leadership for years and have decided to rebel against hiding truth to show loyalty to pastors and leaders with personal intentions. The church membership needs to really analyze their church leaders and view them in the light of God's word. If not, our kids and future generations will suffer the concequences of really cold Christian life ruled by Christian Church dictatorship. God will someday judge the leaders, their accomplises and partners, the church who didn't stand firm against them, and those who took their anger and grudges too far into their hearts. I am not saying for people to hate their leaders, but to not accept what many are doing wrong and acting like it's not. Our young people are seeing this as clear as day. Young people don't want shows, we want the real thing. The church has been rewarding the best fakers and actors, instead of seeing beyond the act many people and leaders put in order to get up on the pulpits. What ever happened to integrity and holiness and separation from sinful things. If the church keeps going after trends, it won't be long until it becomes a trend itself.
This isn't happening in my church (usually pretty packed) however the membership isn't increasing.
However, isnt the reason this is happening across the country because of a growing number of house churches? Myself alone, know about 20 people who used to be regular church goers who now gather together in homes with groups of 5-10 and preach, teach and learn in that environment.
They decline because of Compromise and Pride . Our youth group is growing. God knows what "so-called" christians are doing behind closed doors and if they are acting, talking and living like the world the salt of the earth has lost its savor. Thus as Jesus said "it is good for nothing."
Until a reformation of holiness and a hunger for God and His ways fills the body of Christ expect much of the same. Too many churches have been preaching "false teaching within their gospel message" which has incited more rebellion instead of obedience because they failed to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom. http://phariseesadducee.blogspot.com
The Gospel of the Kingdom === >>
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
i enjoyed first part of the article but but isn't mega-churches the results of such "incredibly self-indulgent so they see the church as a place there for them to meet their needs and to express faith in a way that is meaningful for them" People no longer wants and willing to go to smaller church because it is much easier to cope at the megachurch and the benefits. They even have cafe. Instead of worrying about making coffee for 100 people. You can just drop your 5 and buy a cup. So conclusion should have been megachurches are so successful because of self-centeredness of Christians today in US. I have an infant son. What megachurch offer compare to a small church for my infant son is a hughe factor. They got child-care. They have classes. They have tons of friends. Yeah! Church is all about that isn't it?
You see it's all backwards. WE put all this time and energy into the Sunday morning "Dog and Pony" trick. As a result we've leed people to "hot hogs" instead of "Steak and Lobster", figuratively speaking. What needs to occur is a returning to community/neigborhood/family based ministry where we live, love and worship as a family and community 24-7 not go to church and sit in a pew/theater chaor and watch a few people on stage/behind the pulpit. Christianity needs to be lived not observed!
The "great falling away" of the last days that Paul spoke about seems to be happening in America and in Europe which are the former bastions of Christianity, while in most other parts of the world, where Christianity is relatively young, there is a great revival and subsequent mass exodus into the church.
I belive American Christians are losing the "passion for souls" that sent many, many of your ancestors as missionaries into the new world. Those of us who grew up in the new world have benefitted from the zeal and passion for lost souls that your missionary ancestors had. The early missionaries did such tremendous work for us building churches, schools, hospitals and translating the bible into languages that previously had no written form. They converted our ancestors who were cannibals into God-fearing men and women. To cut a long story short, if it were not for the Christians in America, Great Britain and Europe, our people would never have heard about Jesus.
It is very sad that Christians are allowing the churches to go into decline in America.
'There is almost no genuine compassion or urgency about serving and reaching people who don’t know Christ,” he added.
YOU GOT THAT ONE RIGHT!
The reason would be 'NO GENUINE COMPASSION'.
you are treated as a worker/slave not as a person. weighed down, burnt out, worn out, & stressed out bec. of this 'endless' TO DO list. your blessings will depend on how you perform this 'to do' list in the name of obedience & self-denial. then if your blessing did not materialize, you lack faith. or they slam you with a verse & tell you to make it work in the real world which does not & cannot even apply. The GOSPEL is always pointed to sin, it's your fault, you do not have faith, you failed & that is not biblical.
“I think the bottom line really is our own spiritual narcissism.'
WHO ARE THE MESSENGERS OF GOD ANYWAY, the people BEING reached or the people WHO ARE DOING THE REACHING / PREACHING.
Well, to be fair to all sides, let's include the Catholics, too. Somebody post the Greek Orthodox while we're at it. (http://www.jknirp.com/numcat.htm) The number of Catholics haven't been plummeting, in spite of the priestly scandals. They're holding steady at 1.115 billion. How are the Greek Orthodox doing? I think, if anything, it's getting harder and harder to reach succeeding generations. Hearts are being hardened, and remember: the center of "pride" is "I".
I'm sorry to have to say that I agree: American christians DO tend to be incredibly self-indulgent. I'd suggest less self-congratulatory talk about being a "royal priesthood" and more attention to how we can do better at loving our neighbors. Less self-aggrandizement and more self-discipline.
sounds to me like they are to worried about numbers
Could it be that many church goers have forgotten their “identity” as members of the royal priesthood?
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; - 1Peter 2:9.
We need to get back to studying the Bible on a regular basis, praying, and fasting. If churches are declining; they need to get back to having prayer meetings and periods of fasting so that they can position themselves for the Holy Spirit’s leading. We need not look to a Cultural Architect for guidance but to Jesus who is described as the Author and Finisher of our faith in Hebrews 12:2. See also John 15:5, where Jesus says, “: without me ye can do nothing.”
“A cutting-edge church leader known for his innovative ideas on reaching a post-modern generation for Christ contends the reason why churches are declining in America is because they are self-centered.”?????????
Let me share with my fellow believers in Christ about “Postmodernism”; this is a concept and movement which seeks to undermine the true gospel of Jesus Christ. It is a deception that teaches there is no absolute truth and that truth is determined by whatever a particular culture deems it to be. In short is cultural relativism; no Christian should consider themselves as a postmodernist.
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ – Colossians 2:8.
It's important to note that Paul speaks of the "great falling away" that will occur in the last days. I'm not a dispensationalist or premillenial in my eschatology, but I do find that interesting.