While membership in mainline Protestant churches has been on the decline for decades, church leaders are sounding the alarm more loudly after a recent study offered a grim picture of the churches' future.
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No Future for Methodists Unless Change Occurs, Say Leaders
By
Lillian Kwon
Christian Post Reporter
Mon, Mar. 03 2008 11:17 AM EST
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Comments
paulbrown is right that it's unconvincing. Duke is one of the most egregious offenders. It's denial of the Bible as the Word of God that's divisive.
Here is a quote from my Old Testament professor at Duke Divinity School regarding Scripture journals we wrote that reflects to some small degree the school's commitment to the Bible as the Word of God; however, it is unlikely that any explanation will be sufficient for those who wish to attack and divide the church.
"Previous generations of seminary graduates will likely remember their Old Testament coursework as more historical-critical in orientation, perhaps even narrowly focused on the reconstructed sources “JEDP.” This scripture journal assignment grew out of a substantially altered pedagogical model, in which the goal is to interpret the Old Testament in its canonical form as Christian scripture. " http://www.divinity.duke.edu/news/spotlight/20080226oldtestament
From the doctrinal standards of the United Methodist Church:
Article IV of the Confession of Faith
We believe the Holy Bible, Old and New Testaments, reveals the Word of God so far as it is necessary for our salvation. It is to be received through the Holy Spirit as the true rule and guide for faith and practice. Whatever is not revealed in or established by the Holy Scriptures is not to be made an article of faith nor is it to be taught as essential to salvation.
Article V of the Articles of Religion
The Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation; so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man that it should be believed as an article of faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the Holy Scripture we do understand those canonical books of the Old and New Testament of whose authority was never any doubt in the church.
I used to be a United Methodist, too, and I know of no United Methodist seminary that understands the Bible as the Word of God.
paulbrown,
What seminary is that?
doc411, your comments are not only hateful and inflammatory, they are also not based in fact. I attend a UM seminary, and the professors there certainly advocate Christian orthodoxy - including the Bible as the Word of God. Instead of spending your time attacking Methodists as ignorant and apostate, you could take time to pray for unity in the Church of Christ.
PaulBrown
"God will do the judging and is the only one who knows people's true love and intentions. "
You do not enter into God's Grace by deeds, Jesus Christ is the only way.You can feed a thousand people soup every day of the year and still spend eternity in hell.
"I don't know a single church where every single member agrees on 100% of what the Bible says -that is why we have people leave churches left and right"
Want to make me leave a church ? Start interpeting the Word of God by what you feel is right and taking Scripture out of context to support that which you feel and I am gone.
Women were not created to be Preacher's, Gay is a sin, andyou can not fall out of God's Grace. It is people that beleive what they feel is right unstead of what the Bible says that has caused the many denominations. Here is one prime example....read this article right here on this site. http://www.christianpost.com/article/20080304/31414_Obama_Uses_Jesus%5C%27_Sermon_to_Bolster_Gay_Civil_Unions.htm
First, there is "a little bit of trash" in every church. Anyone who wants to turn up their nose and pretend like their church is full of perfect people is a liar. Everyone sins, everyone is in need of grace - and that is what the church is, a place for ALL kinds of sinners to join together in a loving, forgiving community that seeks to build each other up in holiness and good works as followers of Jesus.
Second, in reference to your quotation of "depart from me," you need to take a look at Mark 9:38-41, where Jesus says "whoever is not against us is for us." The point is, it is not any of our jobs to judge one another - since, again, we are ALL sinners - in fact, God will do the judging and is the only one who knows people's true love and intentions. Also take a look at Matt 13:24-29 where Jesus affirms that it is God alone who will separate the faithful from the wicked at the final judgment.
Finally, in reference to your comments about the United Methodist Church, it must be said that the church continues to maintain Christian orthodoxy, including affirmation of Scripture as the Word of God, and of the historic ecumenical Creeds. For more on official Methodist doctrine, please go to http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?mid=1648. Your "advice" to turn and run from the body of Christ where God has placed millions of souls and where God's Holy Spirit continues to work only has served to splinter the Church into 40,000 denominations.
I don't know a single church where every single member agrees on 100% of what the Bible says - that is why we have people leave churches left and right - we all think we are right! Instead, God calls us to a spirit of humility and grace, to seek His guidance in our interpretation of Scripture, and to "show tolerance to one another in love, being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace; for there is one body and one Spirit...one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all" (Eph 4:2-6).
Rather than attacking brothers and sisters in the Methodist Church, ask God for a spirit of unity, love, and patience - and pray for us all to receive wisdom as we seek to be faithful disciples of Jesus Christ.
It is not pharisiacal for someone to say that debate on things which the Bible is clear on is a waste of time. Jesus said after Christians were doing the works (healing the sick, raising the dead, etc.) depart from me I never knew you. I think Jesus knows what he is talking about.
We are to preach the transforming power of Christ. We that have accepted Christ are no longer sinners. We are new creatures in Christ. When any minister quits preaching that they will run into what the UMC and others denominations are running into. If the UMC does not decide once and for all that they will stand for righteousness and quit debating sin issues that the Bible clearly states are wrong, it will fall like the PCUSA, the Episcopal Church and Carlton Pearson's church here in Tulsa. I have already had this discussion with a very good friend of mine in the UMC. His parents are high up the chain in the denomination. He told me that he knew that he needed to leave BUT basically said that he would be giving up his entire way of life. That is what every Christian should be ready to do. It is a hard place BUT when you know they are about to slide into a bad place it's time to get out of the neighborhood. At this point my friend has chosen the UMC instead of the word of God.
To Professor X:
My mother always used to say "a little bit of trash in the dumpster makes the whole can stink"...
Jesus asked Simon Peter three times....Do You Love Me more than these?
After Simon Peter answered, Jesus then said...
...Feed My Sheep...Feed My Lambs....Feed My Sheep...
We must care for our own first.
<<<I agree, the entire body needs to be praying for one another. And the Bible is clear that man is not to live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God.
The church needs to desire to feed the Word of God more than feeding bread. >>>
Matthew 25:35-40
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
The scripture is very clear... WE(the followers of Christ, the children of the Most High G-d)are the hands and feet of G-D, prayer does no good if we refuse to act on meeting the needs of the poor, hungry, thirsty, widowed, orphaned, naked and in prison. Everything we say in prayer or about G-d is worthless if we do not act like his children and do unto others as we would have them do unto us!
PaulBrown:
What I see in this article is the need for the UMC to get its own house in order before it can continue in ministry to the rest of the world.
I agree, the entire body needs to be praying for one another. And the Bible is clear that man is not to live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds forth from the mouth of God.
The church needs to desire to feed the Word of God more than feeding bread.
As a United Methodist, I take offense at the accusations of "apostasy" and "knee-jerk, touchy-feely social doctrine" that any "right-thinking" Christian should abandon. Not only is it disturbing to see fellow disciples of Christ reveling in the decline of one part of the universal church, but it reveals biblical ignorance on the part of many who are supposedly "Bible-believing."
While no church is perfect, many within the UMC stand for Christian orthodoxy - which is centered on the love and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ. The Jesus Christ of the Bible saved his harshest words for the "religious" people of his day, preferring instead to spend his time with the marginalized of society. Open hearts means that Methodists seek to reflect this Christian principle by recognizing that we are all sinners in need of grace. Jesus also was concerned not only with spiritual but with physical needs (what does it profit to say "be filled" and send someone away hungry?) and so Methodists are often on the front lines with soup kitchens, clothing drives, care for immigrants, and humanitarian relief.
Open minds means that while we are rooted in our Wesleyan tradition, we are not afraid to ask difficult questions, encourage debate, and allow for differences of opinion. Any church that glories in being "closed-minded" risks legalism and the self-righteous piety of the Pharisees just as much as "open minds" risks relativism and compromise.
All that being said, I hope that instead of criticizing, you take the time to actually pray - not only for the Methodist church - but for the whole body of Christ to be strengthened and unified in its mission to reach the spiritual and physical needs of the world!
ProfessorX
Your words sound great!
I've read the exact same thing (word for word) from you on other blogs...with the same link at the end. Great job of copy and paste.
But here's the reality.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water to repentance. But He who comes after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire;
I'm afraid the church is losing the meaning of that fire....the people need to be awakened again to what that fire is.
ProfessorX--
Amen! It's hard to see how the United Methodist Church doesn't see any correlation between their increasing liberalism and support of a socialist agenda, as well as supporting sinful relationships based upon sodomy, and their decreasing numbers.
What right thinking Christian who can read the plain Word of God as it is written, wants to be in communion with a denomination that is placing their truth ahead of God's truth? The UMC's "open doors and open minds" have let the evil one inside, and the number of declining members shows it. Their members aren't stupid. They can read. They know when the truth of God is exchanged for a lie.
If Christian pastors and leaders focused their ministries around loving people, start preaching the authentic gospel message as a kingdom and not a religion, and lived a holy spirit-filled and directed life whereby personal holiness and a lifestyle of intimacy with God became the conviction of their life - they would not have to worry about boarding up their doors. God is sending judgment on all those liberal churches who have forsaken the word of God and who lived a lie and who trusted the arm of flesh over trusting the Lord. Trusting God and truly seeking Him through prayer must touch every area of a person’s life of a ministry. For example, it will eventually become apparent that those who will not trust God with their finances (through giving tithes and offerings) open the door to compromise in other areas. Their love for money blinds their obedience to God. Justifying sin in one area opens the door to other areas. Ones attitude about God is lowered right along with their personal standards. And we see a church that looks more like the world instead of Jesus Christ. Jesus said it best when He said, "a little bit of leaven (sin) leavens (makes sinful) the whole lump (body)."
The Gospel of the Kingdom
http://evolutionfacts.blogspot.com/#the_message_that_we_were_born_to_hear
Actually I think this study leaves little room for any denomination to brag about when you consider that 60% of those surveyed are not in a mainstream Protestant denomination. The UMC may be the first to sound the alarm, but all seem to have work to do in convincing people they have the answer.
For myself, I have been to many locales and through many churches thanks to several moves by the military. Since I've retired, I settled on a Methodist congregation that is sincere, devout and active in the community. From all my experience with various churches and denominations, I know that the quality of a church is on the back of the pastor.
I left the Methodist church for good several years ago after the Senior Pastor of the Methodist church here in town decided to preach the homosexual agenda right from the pulpit, unapologetically I might add. Several months later the associate pastor did the same. I asked the Pastor to define his views a little more clearly and he quoted some General Conference doctrine. I replied that once you start taking your truth from the doctrine of man, instead of what God says you are no longer grounded in truth. Just look at General Conference. It's a 50/50 split along the lines of the homosexual agenda. Is it any wonder that true bible believing Christians don't want to be a part of a church that is "on the fence"? It's truly disgraceful what's happening to John Wesley's work.
Barna did a study on the Biblical worldview of pastors (Jan 12, 2004). This study showed that only 27% of Methodist pastors (the lowest of all denominations) had a rudimentary Biblical worldview; the other Methodists clung to the humanist worldview. Any true Christian is a seeker for Truth and most realize it is not found in the Methodist church of today as the leadership has abandoned Truth for the lies of the world. Thank God He has provided a number of denominations so as one goes apostate there is another to pick up the slack.
methodists are notorious for their ideals that everyone has their own way into heaven
that little lie is gonna metastisize throughout and drive people t otheir dooms and out of the methodists churches.
Right on, lcmslutheran. I left the UMC in 1998 and joined the LCMS. Best thing I ever did.
Amen to wsa's comment. Notice that they have been "doing" outreach for some time now. Maybe they should try something different such as Bible-based theology instead of knee-jerk, touchy-feely social doctrine. Funny, I always thought the Holy Spirit was responsible for outreach.
It would be no loss as this denomination left the truth 100's of years ago.